Children of the future

[Aelfoak]

I have been closely watching climate change, world population increases and environmental damage via sources on the internet, news and through my monthly newsletters that i receive from the WWF and Greenpeace. The UN this week has stated that world population will increase to nearly 9.5 Billion from 6 Billion it is today over the next 20 or so years. The world's current population level has already stretched the world's natural resources to its limit and i really don't think humans can carry on consuming and polluting the way we are if the population reaches the 9 Billion mark. With the current economies of India and China rapidly growing as they are, and seeing that there are 2 Billion Indian and Chinamen wanting the same material things that the western world take for granted, then i am affraid that this will push the worlds natural sources finally over the edge and i cannot see how we will be able to sustain the populations and preserve our rainforests that are being cut down for farmland, because in 20 to 50 years time there's going to be a hell of a lot of mouths that will need feeding.

I will be 31 years of age this year and would love to be able to have children of my own in the near future, but of late i have been seriously contemplating the fact of maybe not having children, the way things are going and what is being predicted at the moment for the future, then i feel our future children will only end up having a horrendous future which i cannot bear thinking about, there are already hundreds of millions of adults and children starving to death in Africa and other continents because there is no adequete drinking water and quality soil to grow crops.

So is it feasable bringing an extra child into the world when we all know they will only suffer a much harder life in the future.

[Faeawyn]

Perhaps your child with be the one who discovers the answers to these issues. :whatgives: Children our also our "hope" for the future.

[Irene]

Your arguement actually contains many of the thoughts that have influenced my decision not to have children. There are other factors as well, but one of my major concerns is our race's inability to control its growth. I also belong to many environmentalist mailings and you are right, the problem is serious. Since I have no burning desire to procreate, I went ahead and ruled myself off the kids list in the hopes that my abstaining will make it possible for someone else's kids to have the resources they need in what is, unquestionably, a murky future. There are a growing number of adults like me, as well. We just have to hope it's enough to make a difference when it comes to our dwindling resources. That and pray everyone gets off their duffs and notices what we've done to the planet...

[Aelfoak]

Your arguement actually contains many of the thoughts that have influenced my decision not to have children. There are other factors as well, but one of my major concerns is our race's inability to control its growth. I also belong to many environmentalist mailings and you are right, the problem is serious. Since I have no burning desire to procreate, I went ahead and ruled myself off the kids list in the hopes that my abstaining will make it possible for someone else's kids to have the resources they need in what is, unquestionably, a murky future. There are a growing number of adults like me, as well. We just have to hope it's enough to make a difference when it comes to our dwindling resources. That and pray everyone gets off their duffs and notices what we've done to the planet...
Your right!

I did watch a program about China's huge economic growth, and its scary! They have accelerated there construction of massive buildings, already destroyed much of the Yangztee river valley's eco-system by building the massive gorges dam, i can just see our natural resources being used up in no time when they become fully developed, and also with corporations such as McDonalds opening up more of their chains there then i can only see more of the rainforests being cut down to supply the burgers.

[MoonDragn]

I resent you calling me chinamen you racist pig. I hope you don't have children to spread your racists genes to your kids. The proper term is CHINESE. The fact is I resent the fact that the caucassians named our country China. Our country's name is Zun-Gao and it means Middle-kingdom. You calling me chinaman is like me calling you Bushman. Chin was one of the worse tyrants of our history he butchered millions of people during his reign.

And I really resent the fact that you are somehow implying its the fault of all those people in the other countries who are going to be causing these hardships. China and India would not be causing all of this polution if the western world had never forced their way into the country with their goods against the wishes of their government.

Who's fault is it that these countries are now hitting pretty much the equivalent of the industrial revolution?

[Aelfoak]

I resent you calling me chinamen you racist pig. I hope you don't have children to spread your racists genes to your kids. The proper term is CHINESE. The fact is I resent the fact that the caucassians named our country China. Our country's name is Zun-Gao and it means Middle-kingdom. You calling me chinaman is like me calling you Bushman. Chin was one of the worse tyrants of our history he butchered millions of people during his reign.

And I really resent the fact that you are somehow implying its the fault of all those people in the other countries who are going to be causing these hardships. China and India would not be causing all of this polution if the western world had never forced their way into the country with their goods against the wishes of their government.

Who's fault is it that these countries are now hitting pretty much the equivalent of the industrial revolution?Hey moron, don't call me a racist pig because i am NOT!!! I apologise if i didn't say anything by the correct terms, but don't call me a bloody racist!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

...and another thing, the western world hasn't forced anything on these countries, because these countries WANT these things, also i am British, but if you called me an Englishman, would i be offended, NO! In my post, i did not say whatsoever that it was anyones fault, i only stated China and Indian as an example as they are 2 of the fastest growing economies in the developing world and with the most populations and tried to give an example of the consequences for all of us when they reach the developed status as the rest of the developed countries, more populous, the more the populous wants.

I wasn't being racist!!!!!!!!

[MoonDragn]

Hey moron, don't call me a racist pig because i am NOT!!! I apologise if i didn't say anything by the correct terms, but don't call me a bloody racist!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

...and another thing, the western world hasn't forced anything on these countries, because these countries WANT these things.

Learn some history. England invaded both China and India. England put down a rebellion when the Chinese resented the English forcing their sale of tobacco to the country. Remember the boxer rebellion? These things were forced on the countries. The technology levels would have naturally progressed along the same rate had it not been those influences which actually ended up with several bloody revolutions. Its not just the fact that you don't use correct terms, its the way you stated your points. If you want to use examples use people from your own country who polute every single day.

[sari0009]

Whether or not conscientious people reproduce ... I hope we all are or strive to become the consumers, children, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, friends, activists, scientists, politicians, writers, and teachers who deal with the connected topics of resourcefulness, pollution, and population in an effective imaginative manner ... in a manner that has clear, long lasting, positive, timely, sufficient, and effective results in this world.

For both nations and people, it seems to be a difficult dilemma to see in it's full scope of possibilities... difficult to sufficiently keep in focus with enough cohesive functional clarity as we rush about in our daily lives.

[LadyTrinity]

Yeah.. some days I think to my self what was I thinking bringing my precious child into this gawd awful world... there is so much hate and crime.. but when he gets to experience wonderful things like playing with balloons and eating Yummy ice cream.. It's not so bad.
As was mentioned before.. Our children now could be the ones to make it a better place.. And even though we cannot change the world... individually we can still make a difference and alot is based on how you were raised and who your role models are growing up :hugz:

[Brielle LaLune]

Aelfoak, I understand completely and can relate to the way you feel. At this point in time, I would much rather adopt and be able to help a child who has already been brought into this world, and give them advantages they might never have, than to bring yet another mouth into this world, only to leave another somewhere else to an uncertain fate.

If we don't start thinking ahead. it will soon be far too late... Even as it may be already. I'm happy to know thought, that there are others like you and I who are so concientious. :hugz:

[Aelfoak]

Aelfoak, I understand completely and can relate to the way you feel. At this point in time, I would much rather adopt and be able to help a child who has already been brought into this world, and give them advantages they might never have, than to bring yet another mouth into this world, only to leave another somewhere else to an uncertain fate.

If we don't start thinking ahead. it will soon be far too late... Even as it may be already. I'm happy to know thought, that there are others like you and I who are so concientious. :hugz:
Thank you Brielle, i was also thinking about adoption too, there's too many poor kids out there on their own fending for themselves, so i maybe i could go down that route.

[lednevir]

It takes 40 pounds of soybeans to make a pounds of beef,those 40 pounds could feed 80 people and cows are happy chewing any plant they don't want to be quickly fattened for slaughter.
Eating meat caused circulatory problems and cancer,you take whatever disease is in the animal into your body.
Maybe there will be less population

[Brielle LaLune]

Thank you Brielle, i was also thinking about adoption too, there's too many poor kids out there on their own fending for themselves, so i maybe i could go down that route.

Dammit! :abadpoker I just tried to give you karma, but it would seem I've poked you too recently! :veryweird Lets chalk this up to an IOU. :D

[semi]

I don't believe in not doing something (like having a child) for fear of the results. I believe in doing it despite fear of the results in the hopes that something positive will occur. I would like to have one or two biological children and also adopt a few. The children brought into the world, as well as the adopted ones, may be the ones who change it for the better. They may not, but it's worth a try.

Also, I think that when the world has too many people, the world will get rid of many of us by various natural disasters, diseases, etc. I think population control is a natural built-in mechanism in nature and will occur when it needs to. Yes, we should be responsible about population growth, but the problem will be solved one way or another regardless.

[Creative Wholeness]

Thank you Brielle, i was also thinking about adoption too, there's too many poor kids out there on their own fending for themselves, so i maybe i could go down that route.

Careful with the Adoption idea. Children are being illegally taken from their families by their governments both here in The U.S. and in Britain. I know this from working with National Autism, Family Rights, and Non-Profit Groups that have been to the U.S. Government's House Ways And Means Committee demanding a Federal Investigation into this practice.

It's Racketeering; Trafficing in the lives of children. Here in the states, a state employee can get between $4000.00 and $6000.00 per each time they are able to adopt out the child. This means if they wish to say the first through 10th placement "didn't work out", they can make the same amount each time the child is "Adopted".

This, plus getting and keeping the children in state "care", is now Big Business. If they are healthy, the districts get around $30,000.00 per year for them. If they are disabled, then they get up to around $150,000.00/yr. as well as the monies their parents are forced to pay for their care by the courts. What's done with all of this moolah?

Well, the employees of California were caught misappropriating their Federal Funding for those kid's "Welfare" and buying Las Vegas Vacations, Golf Memberships, Gucci Bags, and even paying for their dead relative's funerals, instead. ( See LA Times Articles by Tony Anderson ) We're still working on investigating all of the other states... Maine's corruption was exposed by this report: Failure To Protect (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/fostercare/) I know the woman, Mary Callahan, spearheading that system's overhaul. She wrote the book called : "Memoirs Of A Baby Stealer" available on Amazon.com.

Like I've said in my other posts, I just know way too much for my own good. The safest way not to get pulled into this criminal activity is to personally find a mother that wants to place her child up for adoption. That way you know it hasn't been illegally wrestled away from a family against whom there were not even any charges of abuse or neglect, because there was no evidence of any wrong doing on their part to begin with.

The state can now take children on either a "Maybe" OR "Imagined FUTURE crimes". They're even taking the children of the military in this country on these same premises. Apparently the state now uses crystal balls too.

The only problem is that it's still a crime to punish someone who hasn't even yet committed a crime in the US.. You can't envision it in the future, and punish someone beforehand like in the movie "Minority Report" with Tom Criuse. People here are supposed to be "Innocent until PROVEN" guilty....

There's more to this story, but I'm already getting off topic. Again, as in ALL things: if you want it done right, then do it yourself. That way you'll be able to sleep with your Conscience 100% clear.

EDIT: By the way, I was adopted. I hated it, but my parents went through the channel I approved above to get me. I later found my original family and would have been just as miserable with them as with the other family I got. It all worked out though. It forced me to run from "The Norm" like a house on fire. I've been a better person for it.

[mol]

ADMIN MODE

Racist pig, moron, hmm...Moon, I dont think aelfoak was saying chinamen as in the Chin dynasty. I believe he was saying Chinamen as in Englishmen, etc. Although the correct term is Chinese.

If you are both interested in settling this, then do it in private, please. Otherwise, use the ignore feature.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm really glad this topic was brought up, because it's something alot of people (myself included) feel strongly about.

I agree with those of you who've chosen not to have children, and I feel the same. Life sucks so bad I would never wish it on anyone else. In today's world it is a curse to be alive, not a blessing, and in the future I can only see it getting worse. There is no point in bringing a beautiful and innocent child into such a despicable, corrupt, and unhappy world. No matter how you look at it, someone has to suffer in order for someone else to get ahead. There are no happy endings.

As far as China goes, there is just as strong a case about America, so neither is really one to talk. The one difference, however, is that China has a much larger population, with less education and less technology, and there is absolutely NO WAY that China can become as "commercial" as America. There just aren't the resources, and it cannot be done in an environmentally safe way.

The dream of being "Westernized" is crap. I just don't understand why Eastern and third world countries would want to follow their disillusioned vision of becoming like America. America is like the giant sphincter of the world.. we have no morals, no values, no charity, no understanding, and no COMMUNITY.

When I say we have no charity, I know people will reply with "Oh but the United States donated x amount to whatever", or "Americans send out so much foreign aid" but if you look at the PERCENTAGE of per capita income actually donated~, you'd realize we still keep way more than enough to LIVE on. We're such greedy bastards to have televisions and computers, DSL, DVD's, CD's, SUV's, snowblowers, hair dryers, anti-wrinkle cream, 40 pairs of shoes, et cetera..

It's OUR living on our EXCESS, our apathy and ignorance, our being CONSUMERS instead of PRODUCERS~, and pursuing our own goals rather that truly and honestly considering what is good for bettering of ALL society, not just those in our "monkeysphere (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html)".

[MoonDragn]

ADMIN MODE

Racist pig, moron, hmm...Moon, I dont think aelfoak was saying chinamen as in the Chin dynasty. I believe he was saying Chinamen as in Englishmen, etc. Although the correct term is Chinese.

If you are both interested in settling this, then do it in private, please. Otherwise, use the ignore feature.

Sorry Mol, but it touched a nerve. The word chinamen is a very derogatory term like chink and gook. Its due to the way the word has been used in the past to refer to chinese workers in the US. I am sorry but it really sparked some anger.

[MoonDragn]

I think instead of worrying about the population rates, lets worry about the polution. There are alot of things that can be done including building air filter towers that effectively take all the polution out of the air. These could be powered by natural resources like wind, water, solar or geothermal. Alternative efficient automobiles would also revolutionize the industry as well as make it cheaper and more enviornmentally sound for everyone. When an obvious cheaper way to make and produce cars are available, nobody will want to go back to gasoline type engines.

[God]

I used to think the same way, I used to focus on the bad things that were going on in the "world" and be completely against the thought of bringing another human being into a world that was completely not supportive of human beings...It only stands to reason that no conscience bearing human being would be as lacking in wisdom as to bring life into a "world" such as the one you refer.

When you begin to consider all of the reasons not to bring life into the "world", you naturally attract the energy of people who have justified bringing life into the "world"...Several people who now have children have questioned the wisdom of being a parent in a "world" that has so many negatives. Many have justified bringing more life into this "world" by believing that more life creates more love. Others justify it, by ignoring the bad in the "world".

Many people see the population problem as no problem at all. There are many ways to turn the UN off of the "war" and onto the support of life. But besides that, the modern thinker has explored the option of astral plane travel and many have reached light planes without having to leave their bodies. If you haven't heard of astral travel, there is a book called 'flying without a broom', I don't know the authors name right now, but it is a how to on astral travel, which is the most positive progressive thinking, concerning the population "problem".

The hunger "problem" is settled with a focus off of the "war monger" UN and onto the compassionate, kind, caring, intelligent, and forward thinking UN. They are in fact working to resolve the hunger issue. And besides that, if you live in the REAL United States of America, there is no hunger "problem".

But, for me, the real resolution is in knowing that the world improves and children make life more fun.


- Timara

[semi]

Some aspects of the world are despicable, corrupt, and unhappy. Some people have no morals, values, charity, or understanding. Some people have no sense of community. Some people are greedy.

Some. Not all.

When I have children, I'm going to show them the beauty of being alive and teach them about the gift that it is to experience this beauty. And the world will be a better place because of that.

[God]

If I had children I also would pay more attention to the positive aspects of being, instead of focusing on how bad other people have it. I believe that most people do try to ignore the bad in life as much as possible, while silently working to improve the quality of life on Earth. I would be one of these people...I enjoy life, I love the planet, I worry about children in countries which are not quite as technologically modernized as The U.S., and I try to help without being "too imvolved".

- Timara

[Irene]

Don't get me wrong, guys, as I said, there are SEVERAL reasons I'm not planning to have kids. The environment is only one of those reasons. I have nothing against having kids, and I really love my life and our world. I don't hate it here--I revel in it. I think life is beautiful, that people are more full of kindness than hate and that we all stand a good chance of having a rewarding life (or at least some hilarious memories by the end of it). So it's got nothing to do with that. My personal inclination not to breed just fits in nicely with my environmentalist concerns.

That said, we DO have a population problem. And as nice as it is to think some big bad wave, disease or other disaster will come along and solve our problem for us, it would be better if we could be responsible and control ourselves. Plus think of the trauma that would cause. Wouldn't it be better if such a drastic measure, effectually an Earth-driven genocide, weren't necessary in the first place? I'm convinced our Earth Mother would rather her kids lent a hand in cleaning up the mess they've made of things.

My big concern is that many of the philosophies off the judeo-christian branch condemn birth control and encourage having a bajillion babies. I just don't think the attitude is healthy when it comes to the shape our world is in now. And that facet off the judeo-christian branch is included in the major religions of most of the countries in the world. Also, many of the countries in which said philosophies are most prevalent suffer large amounts of poverty which can be directly linked to having families too big to care for effectively. That 'be fruitful and multiply' thing has gotten ~completely~ out of hand...

[SilentDreams]

*sighs* Can we never have one civilized conversation?

[Lewen]

Some aspects of the world are despicable, corrupt, and unhappy. Some people have no morals, values, charity, or understanding. Some people have no sense of community. Some people are greedy.

Some. Not all.

When I have children, I'm going to show them the beauty of being alive and teach them about the gift that it is to experience this beauty. And the world will be a better place because of that.

Well said...this is exactly what I teach my children along with other things I wish to pass on to them. :)