abc looking for wiccan family for tv show

[treefae]

anybody gonna go for it? http://forums.about.com/ab-paganwiccan/messages?lgnF=y&msg=4009.1&nl=1

[serenarian]

I don't have a family of my own, and I wouldn't do it anyway. Look at Mad Mad House - that was an interesting experiment but it was sensationalized by the makers. I think reality TV sucks anyway.

[Kyra Kismet]

where is the article?

[MoonDragn]

All its gonna end up is a freak show. Reality TV sometimes just isn't so real because people are so concious of the cameras they don't act like themselves.

[Koehnae]

I clicked the link out of curiosty... appears as though Wife Swap is doing a Wiccan exchange. I have to agree with many of the posters over there... depite what the casting rep says, I can already get an idea of how badly Wiccans would be portrayed.

[~BEBZ~]

Here is the post I just made...

If you have done any research into Wiccan people, you will know that we are one of the most discriminated against people out there. People are always telling us that we are going to hell and they will pray for us, and constantly try to change our minds as if we don't know what Christianity is about. Heck, most of us started out that way but found the double standards, and hypocracy nauseating. Never have we seen our religion portrayed in a good light, and I'm sure you can understand people being so wary in this political climate. I sincerly doubt that you are looking for a "typical" Wiccan family. We're boring, we're just like you, only less jaded and asnine. That doesn't make for good ratings. I personally would love to do it, but my youngest son is too young. But I'm sure that in the end you will find the mentally unbalanced, sensational, spell spouting, weirdo family you are looking for. I do implore you to prove us all wrong. This has the oportunity to finally open the eyes of millions who think that we worship the devil and kill small animals and baby's. We are for the most part no different than anyone else, except we lie and kill less.



Good Luck

[Koehnae]

Well stated post... one of the few that didn't seem to attack the ABC rep.

[~BEBZ~]

Yeah, some people got really rude. The show's not even aired yet and we're being portraied in a bad light, by ourselves!

[Koehnae]

I think a lot of us has a problem with that.. we're so used to being persecuted that we "flip out" the minute we might have a chance to prove that we're part of a valid and real religious path.


***Please note that the preceding statement was not meant to suggest that Pagans are in the habit of "flipping out" and the words chosen were used to express my opinion.***

[HeavensHope]

I'm tired of 'reality' tv....I think the writers need to get their act together and start writing up new shows, instead of being lazy and coming up with ideas for more reality shows. But I wouldnt mind watching whatever abc's new show about wiccan family is...if it's good.

[AutumnFire]

Here is the post I just made...

If you have done any research into Wiccan people, you will know that we are one of the most discriminated against people out there. People are always telling us that we are going to hell and they will pray for us, and constantly try to change our minds as if we don't know what Christianity is about. Heck, most of us started out that way but found the double standards, and hypocracy nauseating. Never have we seen our religion portrayed in a good light, and I'm sure you can understand people being so wary in this political climate. I sincerly doubt that you are looking for a "typical" Wiccan family. We're boring, we're just like you, only less jaded and asnine. That doesn't make for good ratings. I personally would love to do it, but my youngest son is too young. But I'm sure that in the end you will find the mentally unbalanced, sensational, spell spouting, weirdo family you are looking for. I do implore you to prove us all wrong. This has the oportunity to finally open the eyes of millions who think that we worship the devil and kill small animals and baby's. We are for the most part no different than anyone else, except we lie and kill less.



Good Luck
Very well stated!!! If the show would be realistic based, good idea, however Hollywood will try to make it into their version of Pagan.maybe if it was done by a Pagan producer or director.

[Windsmith]

A friend of one of my co-workers did "Wife Swap." She's a Quaker peace activist who doesn't own a TV & had never heard of the show, so when ABC somehow got in touch with her & said they were making a documentary that they wanted her to be involved in, she agreed. She looked at it as a way to give others a chance to understand her viewpoints, and in turn to be exposed to viewpoints she might not otherwise have had a chance to understand. Not that I think that everyone who goes on the show is that open-minded, but still.

Her experience of her time with the show wasn't that it so much sensationalized her life. Rather, it just hypercondensed everything. They have footage of her organizing and then participating in a peace march. They have footage of her going into a Quaker meeting. They have footage of her talking earnestly about the peace movement. And not much else. She said, "It's like everything I would ordinarily do over the course of an entire year, they made look like I did every day of the week." But overall, she feels like she and her host family both came to a good understanding of and respect for each other. And that's the best way for to come: individuals coming to see each other as people, rather than just as "the other side."

I'm still strongly opposed to the show - especially the bait-and-switch the network seems to be trying to pull on prospective participants by calling it a "reality documentary" rather coming straight out and calling it a "reality show." But after hearing the perspective of someone who's lived through it, I'm almost inclined to believe that it might just hold a genuine opportunity for growth and understanding between people - no matter how hard the network tries to turn it into a slugfest.

[Sleet]

Not for all the tea in China.

[Khuinaset]

Here is the post I just made...

If you have done any research into Wiccan people, you will know that we are one of the most discriminated against people out there. People are always telling us that we are going to hell and they will pray for us, and constantly try to change our minds as if we don't know what Christianity is about. Heck, most of us started out that way but found the double standards, and hypocracy nauseating. Never have we seen our religion portrayed in a good light, and I'm sure you can understand people being so wary in this political climate. I sincerly doubt that you are looking for a "typical" Wiccan family. We're boring, we're just like you, only less jaded and asnine. That doesn't make for good ratings. I personally would love to do it, but my youngest son is too young. But I'm sure that in the end you will find the mentally unbalanced, sensational, spell spouting, weirdo family you are looking for. I do implore you to prove us all wrong. This has the oportunity to finally open the eyes of millions who think that we worship the devil and kill small animals and baby's. We are for the most part no different than anyone else, except we lie and kill less.



Good Luck


Yeah, because you're not perpetuating the 'Christian-hating poor persecuted Wiccan' stereotype there at all. :hrmm:

[~BEBZ~]

Yeah, because you're not perpetuating the 'Christian-hating poor persecuted Wiccan' stereotype there at all. :hrmm:
I didn't know that we were stereo typed that way. But if we are...I guess I would have to cop to it.

Hey...at least I'm honest.

[~BEBZ~]

Hmmm.... I think I should clarify that before I get ragged on and we wind up in the same 'ol argument.

It's no secret I have problems with Christianity. Not just the religion, but most of the people also. Yes, I know that a lot of them are great people. Problem is, none of them live around me. And I don't see why I should have to have warm fuzzy feelings for a religion that says I'm bad, and I'm going to hell. That's the religion itself. Then you get the nuts that go along with it. I'm not saying that other religions don't have nuts, just that Christian nuts seem more vehement and volatile. Not trying to bash it per say. Followed properly it's a religion that has many good aspects. Just saying that most don't follow it. They say they do, but don't. And my biggest pet peeve is hypocrite's.

[Khuinaset]

Hmmm.... I think I should clarify that before I get ragged on and we wind up in the same 'ol argument.

It's no secret I have problems with Christianity. Not just the religion, but most of the people also. Yes, I know that a lot of them are great people. Problem is, none of them live around me. And I don't see why I should have to have warm fuzzy feelings for a religion that says I'm bad, and I'm going to hell. That's the religion itself. Then you get the nuts that go along with it. I'm not saying that other religions don't have nuts, just that Christian nuts seem more vehement and volatile. Not trying to bash it per say. Followed properly it's a religion that has many good aspects. Just saying that most don't follow it. They say they do, but don't. And my biggest pet peeve is hypocrite's.

:eyez: I haven't heard of any Christian nuts flying planes into buildings, but hey, that's just me. (and note: that was not an attack on Islam)

Why is it bad to say things like that? Because you come off just as nutty as they are. I'm not entirely sure which is worse: someone who thinks they're better than everyone else because of their religion, or someone who thinks that they're ever-so-persecuted because of their religion. (And I'm not saying *you* do, because from the other posts I've seen, you don't; but that post did come off as it)


If you have done any research into Wiccan people, you will know that we are one of the most discriminated against people out there.

I would personally say that gay/bi people have it harder than we do. I'm in a crappy area for anyone who's different and while I do get some crap, it's not half(hell, a quarter even) as bad as it would be if I was gay/bi.


People are always telling us that we are going to hell and they will pray for us, and constantly try to change our minds as if we don't know what Christianity is about.

People do not "always" tell me that, and I've seen just as many Christians roll their eyes at the people who stand on sidewalks yelling out things(or handing out things, or...) as atheists/agnostics/pagans/etc.


Heck, most of us started out that way but found the double standards, and hypocracy nauseating.

Comes off as Christian-hating, calling all Christians hypocrites with double standards...


Never have we seen our religion portrayed in a good light

overly persecuted

(and I have. Besides that, the media tries to portray EVERYONE as bad if they can. There was a huge special the other night on prime-time tv(Sunday, I think?) about one of the evangelical TV preachers and his corrupt life)


We're boring, we're just like you, only less jaded and asnine.

We're just like you, but better! (or at least, we think we are)


But I'm sure that in the end you will find the mentally unbalanced, sensational, spell spouting, weirdo family you are looking for.

I do agree that's probably what they'll end up with, but again, that's the media for you. They had one a few weeks ago about an uber-right-wing family that made them all look like nutcases.


This has the oportunity to finally open the eyes of millions who think that we worship the devil and kill small animals and baby's.

I think it's a bit overestimating to say there are *millions* of people(at least in America) who think we kill animals and babies(as for the devil worshipping part, there are people who are going to believe that no matter what, and we can't change it, that's their beliefs that they have a right to just like we do).


We are for the most part no different than anyone else, except we lie and kill less.

Once again, we're just like everyone else, except for better! :wtf:

I'm quite sure there are just as many jaded, asinine, lying and probably killing pagans as there are Christians. As for the bad and going to hell bit, no, not all Christians believe that. That's like saying that all pagans believe in the Rede. There are countless denominations with countless interpretations of the Bible and what it says; and I(who am, let me reiterate, in a pretty conservative fundamentalist town/school) can think of three or four Christians off the top of my head who believe that [people who aren't Christian can go to heaven].

[evie_mun]

Reality TV is the lowest trash you can find on the boob tube, and it definately shows the worst possible side of people. If they try this show, it's going to be an absolute disaster and show us in a worse light than we already are in society. What we need is some sort of show that will explain our religion fully, all this show will do is make us look worse. I hope it does't go through.

Also, I have a feeling that if ABC found a "real Wiccan family" it probably wouldn't be. Anyone who would jump up and volunteer for something like that probably just wants attention, and if memory serves me right, attention-mongering people who call themselves Wiccans usually aren't. Ugh. The sheer idea of this is just giving me a headache. I'm going to go lie down now.

[mothwench]

Here is the post I just made...

If you have done any research into Wiccan people, you will know that we are one of the most discriminated against people out there. People are always telling us that we are going to hell and they will pray for us, and constantly try to change our minds as if we don't know what Christianity is about. Heck, most of us started out that way but found the double standards, and hypocracy nauseating. Never have we seen our religion portrayed in a good light, and I'm sure you can understand people being so wary in this political climate. I sincerly doubt that you are looking for a "typical" Wiccan family. We're boring, we're just like you, only less jaded and asnine. That doesn't make for good ratings. I personally would love to do it, but my youngest son is too young. But I'm sure that in the end you will find the mentally unbalanced, sensational, spell spouting, weirdo family you are looking for. I do implore you to prove us all wrong. This has the oportunity to finally open the eyes of millions who think that we worship the devil and kill small animals and baby's. We are for the most part no different than anyone else, except we lie and kill less.



Good Luck
hah. you rock! :thewave:

[~BEBZ~]

Khuinaset:

The whole concept that we are all the same and no one is better than anyone else is so elementary. EVERYONE thinks they are better than someone else. That's just facts. To deny it is to lie.

[~BEBZ~]

And I would like to add that it is not socially acceptable to bash gays. Even the republicans don't openly do it. But it is socially acceptable to bash Wiccans/Pagans. Oh, and fat people. And I find it very interesting that you capitalize Christians and not Pagans. Very interesting. I would either say that you are Christian or don't think that Paganism is as worthy as Christianity.

[Khuinaset]

Khuinaset:

The whole concept that we are all the same and no one is better than anyone else is so elementary. EVERYONE thinks they are better than someone else. That's just facts. To deny it is to lie.

Then, uh, how come it's not ok for Christians to do it but it's ok for pagans to?


And I would like to add that it is not socially acceptable to bash gays. Even the republicans don't openly do it. But it is socially acceptable to bash Wiccans/Pagans. Oh, and fat people.

Around here, it's socially acceptable to bash gays but not people based on religion. What's politically correct(what politicians are going to say) is completely different from socially acceptable.


And I find it very interesting that you capitalize Christians and not Pagans. Very interesting.

The reason I don't capitalize pagan is because it's not a religion(unlike Christianity). It's an umbrella term.


I would either say that you are Christian or don't think that Paganism is as worthy as Christianity.

Yes, because I'm not playing the "more persecuted than thou" game I'm a Christian. Nice try. :rolleyes: I'm a Wiccan w/strong Kemetic leanings.

[Calen]

I wouldnt want to do it if I were Wiccan, but if it were done well, i.e directed and produced by people who cared about being realistic rather than sensationalist, I think it would be awesome.

[~BEBZ~]

Then, uh, how come it's not ok for Christians to do it but it's ok for pagans to?


It was not we who struck the first blow. It is not us who keeps up a crusade against them. That is not considered an attack, it is considered self defense.

It's perfectly fine if someone is Christian and thinks they are better than me. That's their prerogative, and unless they are a really good Christian, I prolly feel the same way. But for them to physically attack someone or for anyone to physically attack someone or seek them out to verbally berate and abuse them is not. Unfortunately, this is what I see from many of them. And yes, I have been physically attacked. More than once.

I'm sorry if I see that the moral fiber of many Wiccans and Pagans is above that of most Christians. But that is my observation, what I see in society. And having been one, I didn't want to be a part of that.

[IvyWitch]

I wouldnt want to do it if I were Wiccan, but if it were done well, i.e directed and produced by people who cared about being realistic rather than sensationalist, I think it would be awesome.
Yeah, but when is reality TV actually realistic? I've seen those "wife swap" shows. They're horrid. Reality TV isn't about showing reality, it;s about exploiting people for the entertainment of the country.

However, I didn't look in the thread long enough to find out the specs on the show but my hopes are not high anyway.

[~BEBZ~]

Does Yasmine have any kids at home? It would be cool if they could get someone like her to do it.

[SilentDreams]

All its gonna end up is a freak show. Reality TV sometimes just isn't so real because people are so concious of the cameras they don't act like themselves.


*nods in agreement*

I also wouldn't be surprised if they wouldn't want a more down to earth "normal" person. Something tells me just for the drama they'd want a really off the wall fluffy type. Great......all we need..... :grrrrr:

[Loopaleigh]

Yeah, because you're not perpetuating the 'Christian-hating poor persecuted Wiccan' stereotype there at all. :hrmm:

Perhaps your life experiences have been different? Maybe you have not experienced any discrimination or known anyone personaly who has......if so, your have been fortunate, but it isn't fair for you to belittle or ridicule another person's experience.

Yes, I agree, some people can go way overboard with the "Oh woe is me, I'm so hated" routine, I have known a few of those myself. But this is not the case for EVERYONE who claims discrimination, has had it happen to them, speaks out about it, or fights to stop it.

Personaly, I have never had any out right hostile discrimination or persecution.
I have experienced "quite" discrimination,or shall we say, pre-conceived notions about me as a person.
I'v had people tell me things like, "you know, you are not at all like I thought you were going to be when I first meet you, what with the Pagan thing and all I thought you would be a real freak."

Or, my favorite, a guy once told me he just "Lost all respect for me as a person" when I told him I was a Pagan. This is a guy who had already know me for 2 years and someone I worked with.

I'm lucky I live in a big city where it's easier to blend in and people don't care as much.
But alot of people don't live in big cities, they live in areas that may not be as ethnicaly, religiously, or culturly mixed, places where the intolerance and discrimination might be higher.
These Pagans have different experiences from me, and I'm not about to tell them to stop "whining" about them because mine have been different.

Another thing to ponder is the amount of people who are in the "broom closet".
If there is no discrimination, not even "silent" discrimination, then why are so many people afraid to come out?
I know for some people it is a matter of privacy, they don't want to share their beliefs with the world, that's fine, but for others they can't because they know it won't be received well by family, friends, SO's, co-workers, neighbors, etc......THAT is also persecution......fear by silent consent.

[Suzette]

Such programs need sensationalism to succeed. Therefore, we will be portrayed as over-the-top kooks, otherwise how else will they get ratings? Nothing like continuing to promote a poor sterertypical image of us...

Viewers don't want educated, sophisticated and professional Witches. Too bad, really.

[Dawa Lhamo]

It was not we who struck the first blow.

Actually, historically, it was, if you consider all pagans everywhere and everytime. :tongueout


It is not us who keeps up a crusade against them. That is not considered an attack, it is considered self defense. This shouldn't be about who persecuted who more. It should be about what we can do now to help each other. We shouldn't let ourselves be walked on, but we can't hide behind a persecution-complex either and refuse to gain real understanding of each other. That's just as cowardly, in my eyes.

YMMV
Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Catiana]

I saw the Wife Swap show where they switched a "born again" lady from Texas with a lesbian from Phoenix. At the end the born again lady called the lesbian a deviant, said she should have never been allowed around the born again's daughter because she might have molested her and told her she was going to burn in hell, just because she's a lesbian, plus a bunch more terrible things I can't even remember, the poor woman and her partner ended up in tears at the end and the born again lady sitting there with a smug look on her face. The was the last time I'll watch that show. I can only imagine what they would do with a Wiccan family probably switch them with some fundi family, it would end up in some Wicca bashing thing with them being called all sorts of horrid names. I hope no one volunteers for it.

[Khuinaset]

Perhaps your life experiences have been different? Maybe you have not experienced any discrimination or known anyone personaly who has......if so, your have been fortunate, but it isn't fair for you to belittle or ridicule another person's experience.

Yes, I agree, some people can go way overboard with the "Oh woe is me, I'm so hated" routine, I have known a few of those myself. But this is not the case for EVERYONE who claims discrimination, has had it happen to them, speaks out about it, or fights to stop it.

Personaly, I have never had any out right hostile discrimination or persecution.
I have experienced "quite" discrimination,or shall we say, pre-conceived notions about me as a person.
I'v had people tell me things like, "you know, you are not at all like I thought you were going to be when I first meet you, what with the People thing and all I thought you would be a real freak."

Or, my favorite, a guy once told me he just "Lost all respect for me as a person" when I told him I was a People. This is a guy who had already know me for 2 years and someone I worked with.

I'm lucky I live in a big city where it's easier to blend in and people don't care as much.
But alot of people don't live in big cities, they live in areas that may not be as ethnicaly, religiously, or culturly mixed, places where the intolerance and discrimination might be higher.
These Peoples have different experiences from me, and I'm not about to tell them to stop "whining" about them because mine have been different.

Another thing to ponder is the amount of people who are in the "broom closet".
If there is no discrimination, not even "silent" discrimination, then why are so many people afraid to come out?
I know for some people it is a matter of privacy, they don't want to share their beliefs with the world, that's fine, but for others they can't because they know it won't be received well by family, friends, SO's, co-workers, neighbors, etc......THAT is also persecution......fear by silent consent.

Um, yeah, I have. The difference is, I don't use people being biased against me as an excuse to hate people. I never said there wasn't discrimination, but quite frankly, I'm really very sick of hearing people complaining about how evil the Christians are all the time. Here's a thought: if we took all of the time that we spent complaining about the nasty nasty Christians and making ourselves out to be persecuted(and/or better people than everyone else, so much less jaded, asinine, lying and killing :rolleyes: ), and used that time to do something productive; what could we do?


Actually, historically, it was, if you consider all Peoples everywhere and everytime. :tongueout

This shouldn't be about who persecuted who more. It should be about what we can do now to help each other. We shouldn't let ourselves be walked on, but we can't hide behind a persecution-complex either and refuse to gain real understanding of each other. That's just as cowardly, in my eyes.

YMMV
Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

THANK YOU!! :yourock:

edit: And one of the things that gets me most, is the automatic assumption that just because I'm not a Christian-hater, I am Christian or look down on pagans. That strikes me an awfully lot like the assumptions by homophobes that if you're defending gay people, you MUST be gay, obviously!

[Dawa Lhamo]

Incidently, my family often jokes about being on Wife Swap or Trading Spouses, especially with an uber-clean, uber-in-your-face-Christian. Because, frankly, we'd scare them. ^_^ My brothers and I have just the morbid, sick sense of humour that ABC would look for, and we'd do stuff just to freak her out. ^_^ lol. My dad says I've got a sense of humour kinda like Aleister Crowley if that gives you any idea. ^_^ Yup, there'd be bones on the doorstep, nooses hanging from every available hook, weird gutteral chanting... I'd say words backward and wiggle my fingers.... Oh, and doll heads. All the kind of stuff I did in high school. ^_^ Hey, if she cared to learn anything, she could pick out what was real and what was theatre. ^_^ Not to mention the fact that with my mom out of the house, my dad would take the opportunity to turn every available flat surface into some kind of shrine. ^_^ Oooh, it'd be quite funny. ^_^ I'd come home from school just to participate in the fun. TV cameras would suck, though. lol Maybe I'd smudge every one before allowing it into the house... hehehe

_firedevil :devil: :deviltail :smoke: :bad:

Hey, my nickname isn't Satan for no reason. :deviltail

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Loopaleigh]

Um, yeah, I have. The difference is, I don't use people being biased against me as an excuse to hate people. I never said there wasn't discrimination, but quite frankly, I'm really very sick of hearing people complaining about how evil the Christians are all the time. Here's a thought: if we took all of the time that we spent complaining about the nasty nasty Christians and making ourselves out to be persecuted(and/or better people than everyone else, so much less jaded, asinine, lying and killing ), and used that time to do something productive; what could we do?

I agree with you, people shouldn't use it as an excuse to be biased or hate another group of people.....it shouldn't be used for "reversed discrimation".

And I also agree with your ideaology that if Pagans spent more time working on there own image and representing THEMSELVES in a better light, we would ALL be alot better off........

But I'm not going to let this jade me to some folks who may have, or may be currently be experiencing real pain and trauma and persecution.

I just don't want to become so deaf to other people cries, that I no longer even hear them.

(And please don't take that as I mean YOU personaly do this Khuninaset, I am talking strickly here about me and why, even though to a certain extent I agree with you, I also don't personaly want to swing to the other extreme of not being sensitive to other peoples lives.)

[Khuinaset]

I agree with you, people shouldn't use it as an excuse to be biased or hate another group of people.....it shouldn't be used for "reversed discrimation".

And I also agree with your ideaology that if Peoples spent more time working on there own image and representing THEMSELVES in a better light, we would ALL be alot better off........

But I'm not going to let this jade me to some folks who may have, or may be currently be experiencing real pain and trauma and persecution.

I just don't want to become so deaf to other people cries, that I no longer even hear them.

(And please don't take that as I mean YOU personaly do this Khuninaset, I am talking strickly here about me and why, even though to a certain extent I agree with you, I also don't personaly want to swing to the other extreme of not being sensitive to other peoples lives.)

Then we're in agreement :)

I don't think it's okay for people to be discriminated against by Christians, but at the same time, I find it incredibly hypocritical for someone to spout acceptance and then turn around and start going off about the damn Christians.

I think it's sad that people go through discrimination, but I don't find that an excuse for hatred, or trying to make yourself out to be better than other (groups of) people.

[~BEBZ~]

Then we're in agreement :)

I don't think it's okay for people to be discriminated against by Christians, but at the same time, I find it incredibly hypocritical for someone to spout acceptance and then turn around and start going off about the damn Christians.

I think it's sad that people go through discrimination, but I don't find that an excuse for hatred, or trying to make yourself out to be better than other (groups of) people.
Nowhere am I saying "Accept me". I doubt that will ever happen. All I'm saying is leave me the hell alone!

The end. I refuse to derail this thread and defend myself, my beliefs, or statements to you anymore. I did my best to explain my opinion, that should be enough. You do not need to pick apart every little thing I say. Obviously you and I have different opinions on what is acceptable retaliation.

[Pandoras]

I saw the Wife Swap show where they switched a "born again" lady from Texas with a lesbian from Phoenix. At the end the born again lady called the lesbian a deviant, said she should have never been allowed around the born again's daughter because she might have molested her and told her she was going to burn in hell, just because she's a lesbian, plus a bunch more terrible things I can't even remember, the poor woman and her partner ended up in tears at the end and the born again lady sitting there with a smug look on her face. The was the last time I'll watch that show. I can only imagine what they would do with a Wiccan family probably switch them with some fundi family, it would end up in some Wicca bashing thing with them being called all sorts of horrid names. I hope no one volunteers for it.

This is interesting because which mom a person might cheer depends on what side of the issue one is on. I didn't see this episode, but I probably would have sympathized with the lesbian woman and thought that the born-again woman was a bitch and that she did herself a great disservice by being so cruel on national television. Someone on the other side of the fence might say the lesbian got what she deserved. If the Wiccan mom is "normal", I expect a similar thing to happen.

However, I suspect they'll find a mom that is a cross between Laurie Cabot and Fiona Horne named Raven Moonshine and swap her with a big-haired, fundamentalist preacher's wife named Lurleen who lives in the deepest part this side of the Mason Dixon line.

[rottencandy7]

That one wifeswap with the born again lady and lesbian, i wanted to see that. i saw up until the born again lady found the lesbian couple book, then it went to commercial and we see them fighting. but i had to leave.

i would imagine, they're looking for a family that would be like a hollywood depicted wiccan family. ouija boards, lots of candles, weird clothing. but thats just me. :spinner:

[ClockElf]

Nowhere am I saying "Accept me". I doubt that will ever happen. All I'm saying is leave me the hell alone!

The end. I refuse to derail this thread and defend myself, my beliefs, or statements to you anymore. I did my best to explain my opinion, that should be enough. You do not need to pick apart every little thing I say. Obviously you and I have different opinions on what is acceptable retaliation.


I don't find your explanation satisfactory at all. In fact, I'm quite offended by it. With the kind of attitude you've exhibited here, I don't see why any christian should tolerate your presence at all. You're rude, insulting and arrogant. If you behave like this in public around fundamentalist christians, I'm not really surprised you get them angry at you.

Thankyou to all the nice people in this thread who have spoken about tolerance and equal acceptance. I'm really glad to see there are a lot of pagans who can get past the discrimination they suffer from some christians and still be openminded about the faith :)

[HeavensHope]

well...probably not...but at least try. Anyhow, like I said I'm not into reality shows, not even American Idol, it's so played out....pretty soon 75% of the country will be recording artists at one point or another, one of those one hit wonders. However, I kinda like this idea, but then it's up to the producers on what kind of image they want to portray so they choose the right family for it, rather they be real wiccan families or just posers who wanna get on tv. There's also the issue of editing, I'm a communications major (journalism) and from what I've learn, you cant always trust what you see and hear on tv, radio, news, etc. They control the media to try to influence the way we think, rather it be the norm or not, and of course for the ratings. But I'm seeing a trend of more openess and acceptance in the media, little by little....with shows like Charmed, Buffy, Angel, Medium, etc. it's showing the brighter, good side of the occult, that like anything else there's two sides of it, the bad and the good. So, maybe this show, depending on the producer can either help or hurt the pagan community.