christian/wiccans?

[richardcranium]

I don't understand how this could be. Doesn't the bible tell christians that we should not"suffer to live"?

[Dextra]

Originally posted by richardcranium
I don't understand how this could be. Doesn't the bible tell christians that we should not"suffer to live"?

It's funny you should say that. My ex-husband used to use that one on me whenever he tried to get me to changed my beliefs. "thou shalt not suffer a witch (or sorcerer, depending on which bible you're looking at) to live."
I decided to look it up. According to my research, that passage is one of the things that was changed when King James did his little editing of the bible. The original text read "thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live." Of course, this was back in the 1400's, around the time of the Inqusition as well. So the king and the church were witch-hunt-happy, so to speak.

[richardcranium]

So it's okay if you follow the king james bible?

[mol]

Originally posted by richardcranium
So it's okay if you follow the king james bible?

How about this?

Its ok...if it feels right to the person following that Path.

[richardcranium]

I was just confused about the whole situation. If there any christian/wiccans in this community I would love for you to help clear this up for me.

[Earth Walker]

christian/wicca?

I don't think so. Oil and water do not mix.

Is that like a Gay Republican? :confused:

[richardcranium]

I don't think so. Oil and water do not mix.

Is that like a Gay Republican? :confused: [/B][/QUOTE]


Well that's another story

[mol]

Originally posted by Mystique
christian/wicca?

I don't think so. Oil and water do not mix.

Is that like a Gay Republican? :confused:

And I know some Gay Republicans..as I know some Christian Witches. Note: I said witches. I would say that a Wiccan Christian is a bit odd to me...but that doesnt mean it is not a vlid Path.

[Earth Walker]

:sunny: "I see," said the blind lesbian to her deaf
lover. ;) :D :cool:

[Yvonne Belisle]

I have a very good friend who is a Christian Witch. She is a woman who has chosen the Christian concept of God as the deity she wishes to worship and she believes that many of the things in the Bible occurred but she doesn't follow the exact beliefs in the Bible. Many of the tenets although not often followed by the Christian Churches is actually compatible with our beliefs. Take love thy brother. How about the golden rule taught in Sunday school the words are different the heart is the same. Her path is a thin line between the two systems and for her it is the right path. IMHO that is really the only thing that matters. Also remember the early Christians pulled a lot of their holidays and tenets from our beliefs. As for oil and water how about the rule against killing someone and the rule against blood on an athame????

[eaglewolf]

If I mix steamed milk, coffee bean extract, and flavoring...

...do I have a flavoring/steamed milk/coffee bean extract, or do I have a cappuccino?

If I mix a Christian and a Wiccan, do I have a Christian/Wiccan or something all together different...

Hmmm, I am betting on something different.

Just more meaningless ramblings from ~ew

[bluecat]

Not meaningless, eaglewolf. It is something different.

There have been folks practicing Christianity and Witchcraft for, well just how old is Christianity?

They simply see the Christian god as their God. These folk have existed throughout history. Now I am not sure about Christianity and Wicca ... both are diometrically oppposed to each other. Many "Kitchen Witches" were and are Christian, as well as many mid-wives who were seen as Witches by many cultures.

The idea is not so far-fetched as it may seem. There is actually a term for it, "Syncretism," practicing two separate religions at the same time.

BlueCat

[richardcranium]

Which religion is it that believes in the bible? My next question is what is the difference between wicca, witchcraft, and paganism? I do realize the differences in druidism and others but these three seem to be the root of alot of confusion to me. I thought that paganism was an umbrella term for all of us and witchcraft is a term for what wiccans do. Help I am confused!

[richardcranium]

I want to make sure that everyone realizes that I am not putting anyone down about this. I just want to make sure I know what I am talking ab out.

[bluecat]

You are right about Paganism being a general term for what we all believe. As far as WitchCraft one way to look at it is all Wiccans may be called Witches, but all Witches are not Wiccan. That makes Witch a sort of umberlla term for Wiccan.

Also there are many different kinds of Witches ranging from healers to readers and beyond. Not all Witches engage in Spellwork, per se. It is more a way of life to me than surrounded by ritual and spellwork.

Although I do not accept Christianity as part of my personal belief structure many of my ancestors did. They were more of the folk and kitchen type of witch, like myself, and concentrated their work around their family, but were also known outside the family.

For more on the blending of beliefs you can check my article on synchretism at http://www.bluecatsden.com/syncretism_html.htm and a summary of my personal beliefs can be seen at http://www.bluecatsden.com/Beliefs.html.

I hope this helps.

BlueCat

[Ayla]

Much of the christian faith was based upon older pagan religions, the annually dying sun god, the mother goddess. Makes pretty reasonable sense to me. But even so, Wicca and Christianity are two separate faiths, both may be interpreted in as many ways as there are people, but to be a Witch is something different. A Wiccan is a follower of the Wiccan faith, a Witch is one who practices the Craft... who uses the Gift. A person who uses the Gift could be hindu, wiccan, buddhist, seikh, agnostic, christian, athiest or anything - it's a Gift, like poetry or woodwork, violin playing or pottery.

Love & Hugs,
http://ayla.brinkster.net/ayla/images/signatureT.gif

[richardcranium]

could christianity be put under the general pagan term?

[Earth Walker]

I don't think so. :D

The christian word, wicked, is derived from wicce/wicca.
:cool:

[Silverwitch]

Pagan is an umbrella term as is Christian. So be you Wiccan, Druid, or Magician, you would still be deemed Pagan., just as Catholic, Baptist, Born Again etc are deemed to come under the Christian umbrella.

One generally accepted definition of Pagan is:-
1. One who have love for and kinship with Nature. Reverence for the life force and its ever renewing cycles of life and death.
2. A positive morality, in which the individual is responsible for the discovery and development of their true nature in harmony with the outer world and community, often expressed as:"Do what you will, as long as it harms none".
3. Recognition of the Divine, which transcends gender, acknowledging both the female and male aspects of Deity.

A generally accepted definition of Christian is:-
A follower of Christ and his works.

So Wiccan is a belief system within the broad band of Paganism. Witchcraft on the other hand, is a practise often found among Wiccans, but equally likely to be found in any other of the belief systems that come under the Pagan band. In the same way that Catholisism is a belief system under Christianity, but it's practices like the Confessional, would not necessarily be shared by other Christians.

Hope that helps

BB Silverwitch

[Niamh]

I can see how a Christian would be a witch. But it can be as confusing for me to think about as Jews for Jesus!

[Shatav]

Originally posted by Silverwitch
Pagan is an umbrella term as is Christian. So be you Wiccan, Druid, or Magician, you would still be deemed Pagan

Ah, actually, Mage/magician is a term that can cross religious boundries as well. Some of the greatest mages of our times are in fact Christian. And many have their own set of beliefs that don't fall under any religious umbrella description besides the ones they created for themselves.

Other than that, I complete agree with your definition, Silverwitch.

[sherry]

Many of my family members are christian witches, it is what my mother, her father and sisters were born with and the path they followed. My Brothers and sisters are also on that same path. As for me, I know what I was born with and the christianity part never made alot of since to me. There have been a few of my ancestors that have choosen Wicca as their Path but very few. All of them know my choice is just that, My Choice.
To me, at times it doesn't make since, that they have such a harsh misunderstanding of my choice because of the things they do.

Like knowing who is on the phone before it rings, slide things acrossed the table without touching them, start a conversation answering the questions that you have not even spoken yet, send messages to family members without picking up the phone and many other family secrets that I wont get into, but the point is why judge me for fine tuning what i was born with by acting affraid of the name

[Earth Walker]

:D Christians and other fundamentalists are
terrified of what/who they are unable to
control. :mad:

See the following site for more info.
http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/Bush/bush5.html
:rolleyes: :eek:

[Ayla]

Ask around in Mexico, Portugal, Spain, Peru, Italy, etc, etc. Lots and lots and lots of Catholic countries out there whose belief in and use of magick is well known and as much a part of life for them as going to work or eating dinner. Even in Sweden the Gift is recognised and respected, whatever faith you are from. I think much of the hooha about it is from the US and UK, the two countries best known for their cruelty during the burning times.

Love & Hugs,
http://ayla.brinkster.net/ayla/images/signatureT.gif

[Silverwitch]

Your quite right Shatav, re Mages/Magicians, I stand corrected and apologise!

Not sure about Magick/the practise of Witchcraft being a gift Ayla, I really believe that it is an ability that we all have, but which most people don't realise or use. Like a muscle, if you don't use it, you loose it. Most young children can perform Magick or acts of faith, but loose it when they are informed by their "elders" that it doesn't exist/is bad. If it were a gift, how would anyone be able to learn, or be taught? I do agree that some people have a better natural aptitude than others, but with practise, we can all perform Magick to one degree or another, as countless of my students would agree.

[Shatav]

Originally posted by Silverwitch
Most young children can perform Magick or acts of faith, but loose it when they are informed by their "elders" that it doesn't exist/is bad.

Bingo! When I was young, I specifically remember having these "friends" that I talked to...little critters that told me things. When I finally got back into Wicca, I was amazed that my "friends" actually did exist when I met them a little time later. It was an incredible realization.

And we won't go into the dragon... ;)

[Ayla]

SilverWitch, that's what I was saying... using the Craft *is* a gift. When a person is really good at playing the violin we might say that they're really gifted, well, that's what Witches are, people who are gifted with magick. I didn't say noone else had it, there's plenty of violin players in the world and anyone can pick one up and work out how to play "Three Blind Mice", I just meant that there are those who have a particular talent and flair for it, and those are Witches. Violinists are taught and their gift for the instrument is encouraged and accompanied by many hours of practice, playing competitions, exams and concerts. Witches are taught how to use thir gift for magick, they are encouraged and they practice and they do rituals and spellworkings... do you see what I mean?

Love & Hugs,
http://ayla.brinkster.net/ayla/images/signatureT.gif

[Red Dragon]

I don't see how the two can mix as they are divergent and at opposite poles. You must I think; be either one or the other. However one can be a witch and still believe in a creator or supreme being, just without the required rigidity and guilt of the Christian faith. The belief in one god predates Christianity by millennia, and if you look at the Christian pantheon you will discover not one god, but a trinity, then comes Mary and the saints, then a whole host of angels. Makes one wonder doesn't it. Although we as pagans do have many things that seem similar to Christianity, we are different. One said that if you take the pagan trappings away from Christianity, there is very little left. It's also interesting if you look at the danger signs of a cult, Christianity rates very highly as a dangerous one. I'm not bashing here, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. These are just simple facts and common knowledge...after all, isn't the key knowledge??? ;) Hee,hee

[Kaylara]

Red~
I actually had noticed that Christianity ranked high on the "Dangerous Cult" thingy. I used Bonewitz Cult Evaluation on a few denominations that I knew of/had been in the past. (Baptists are scary) They all pretty much were high up there. Strangely enough, the Catholics and the Prezbeterians were a lot lower down on the dangerous list.

Kaylara

[eaglewolf]

This line of discussion got me to thinkin'...

My stepmother, and father, are 7th Day Adventists (sic) and my grandfather always refered to it as "the cult."

At the time I was too young to really understand, but looking back, it was hilarious... and soooo true ;)...

...good ol' grandpa, who was much wiser than I ever realized...

~ew

[Silverwitch]

Wish there was an icon for "gobsmacked"!

I had an email today from someone who wants to join a small, informal group that I run locally. It turns out this guy writes correspondence courses for a living on magic and witchcraft, but is not a Pagan. He follows a Celtic faith based on the early Christian mysteries and the Cabbala! He'd seen the group advertised, but was hesitant to come along in case anyone was anti-christian.!

Well, I replied that as it was a public group, held in a public place, he will be more than welcome, and the only people we weren't happy to see, were fundamentalists - of any kind.

Hopefully, once I've met him, I will be better informed on the whole Christian v Pagan issue, so watch this space!

[gunner]

bring him in here too silverwitch, he and we might all learn something.

[Silverwitch]

Originally posted by gunner
bring him in here too silverwitch, he and we might all learn something.

Have been recommending Mystic Wicks to everyone in my group, including this guy, so membership may well jump a notch or two, and we'll certainly get some interesting view points. Ain't people great!!

[Tanna]

Originally posted by Ayla
SilverWitch, that's what I was saying... using the Craft *is* a gift. ...I just meant that there are those who have a particular talent and flair for it, and those are Witches.
[/img]

Disagreement: Skipping the majority of the world, here!
*scowling pouty-face* Witches are not as wide-spread as people who possess such gifts/talents. Many people don't even use labels, they just are.

~T

[Lorelei]

No offense meant,Silverwolf,but there are thousands even millions of Christians who ascribe to the 3 attributes you used to describe Pagans,myself included.

If anyone would care to see how things have changed since the formalization of "christ-believers" in the 1500's,I'd suggest a trip to the local library or bookstore for a copy of "Conversations With God",3 volumes wriitten in the late 80's or so in plain English which may surprise you.You may even learn something to help you realize we are all one.

Blessed be!
Lorelei

[Earth Walker]

We need to closely watch the New Age Movement, aka
the New World Order, started by Raygun, and helped
along by GWB1, and now in the hands of GWB2 :eek:
It is a more destructive arm of the patriarchs.
It is NOT Pagan...it is counterfeit, and it is extremely
dangerous.

Let's all maintain a close vigil, and fight to keep our
rights and freedoms. :D :heartthro

[gunner]

when i hear that phrase "new world order" i get nervous, i'm just old enough to remember the last crowd that was going to bring us a "new order".
"brrrrrrrrttt heil!"
(insert here sound of big juicy "razzberry")
nein danke, ich wille nicht haben dieser "nue welt ordnung"

[Ellegon]

It's all a part of the process of moving fron the Age of Aquarious to the age of Pisces...it will all get better in time...this is the transitional period...just a thought...

[Ellegon]

I have two friends..they are cousins...that are practicing xtian/witches. One is a catholic by birth, and the other baptist. I must say I had my doubts at first, yet I come from a xtian/craft backgroung also. After interacting with these two, I feel it is very possible to incorporate the two.. I have found the similarities in some cases to be very uncanny. The biggest hurdle they seem to have to cross is the distinction as Jesus as the son of god...they kinda feel he is more of a great druid/witch or something in his own right. I have invited them both to join this forum as to give more insight to thier belief system for those interested. I will provide more info as it becomes available to me.

Elle )0(