Better Female Egyptian Ruler

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Just was reading a post by Yvonne, that indicated Tina Turner believes she was Hatchepsut in a former life. Thus it inspired me to create this poll.

I personally love Hatchepsut. Shes awesome. Although little is known about her, she could have kicked Cleopatra's buttocks any day!

[flar7]

But we get the gist of the poll.

[Naillosotarrain]

Which Cleopatra? There were like 7 - 9 of them ... :):):)

[Xander67]

I voted for CLeopatra she knew how to keep Ceasar in check LOL

[Myst]

who the heck is hatchwhatchamacallit? :)

[Illuminatus]

I think she was the queen of Barter Town, in Mad Max beyond Thunderdome. Tina Turner played her, and she hired Mel Gibson to kill the little dwarf/giant twins, and then he found all these children who survived a jet crash, and they went back to barter town to free some people, and she just laughed at Mel and let him go after she captured him. I'm voting for Hasuqfhaughaeset, she's got spunk.

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

yeh I voted Hejellawhatsit coz I read somewhere that after her reign, the preists scratched all her pictures etc off the walls, coz they were so in awe of her.

I want people to do that when I die :)

[loopy]

I don't know much about the first queen, but I've seen plenty a made-for-TV movie on Cleopatra, so I voted for her.

[Rævyn Cigány]

Originally posted by Willow Raven
who the heck is hatchwhatchamacallit? :)

That's what I said!!! LOL!

BB

Rae )0(

[Euphoria]

HATCHESPUT !!!!!!!!! cos she is like me LOL (not in the fact tah "dude looks like a lady" as u'll read in a min)

Cleopatra was kool aswell

But Nefertiti was the supreme

[gunner]

you forgot nefertiti

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Originally posted by gunner
you forgot nefertiti

She wasn't a ruler, she was the wife of Akhenaton. She was a Queen though.

flar7, what name did I make a typo in?

[Myst]

Originally posted by paranoid punk


She wasn't a ruler, she was the wife of Akhenaton. She was a Queen though.

flar7, what name did I make a typo in?

and what are queens?

RULERS!

RAH RAH NEFERTITI

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Actually the Queens in Egypt, were just regarded as wives of the pharoah. She had no power at all.

Hatchepsut and Cleo were the only rulers to rule Egypt. Hatchepsut was a pharoah, and Cleo was a solo Queen.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

I've noticed that some have no idea who Hatchepsut is, thus heres a bit of info on her.

"Hatchepsut was the first female ruler in recorded history. On the death of her husband, Thutmose II, she became regent for her young nephew Thutmose III and was expected to carry out political power in his name. However, she soon tired of this situation and declared herself Pharaoh, becoming leader in name as well as in deed. She insisted on wearing the full regalia of a king, even wearing the fake beard that the other pharaohs had worn. During her reign, Egypt had a period of peace and prosperity and trading relations were expanded. Many of the temples and obelisks that she built remain standing to this day."

Taken from:
http://www.girlsite.com/Html/phenomenalwomen/politicalleaders/phenomhatchepsut.htm

[Myst]

Originally posted by paranoid punk
She insisted on wearing the full regalia of a king, even wearing the fake beard that the other pharaohs had worn.

Dude look like a lady yeah yeah dude look like a lady yeah yeah

(aerosmith *natch*)

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Originally posted by Willow Raven


Dude look like a lady yeah yeah dude look like a lady yeah yeah

(aerosmith *natch*)

LOL :D

[flar7]

my bad on the typo, when comparing. sorry! :boing:

Voted for the H gal myself, cause Cleo was going after the aid of rome to help overthrow her brother the legitimate pharoah, ptolemy (I think thats how you spell it.)

[Euphoria]

Originally posted by paranoid punk:

Actually the Queens in Egypt, were just regarded as wives of the pharoah. She had no power at all.



Actually Nefertiti had almost as much power as H and cleo because it is written that she had her husband so tightly wrapped around her finger she was using him as a puppet to carry out her will (dats my sorta girl lol)

Charysma

[Earth Walker]

NEFERTITI She's my kind of Woman!:cool:

They just did a show on Nefertiti recently on A&E. Great Stuff!!!

[flar7]

And H gal was a terrific ruler. They tried to erase her from history because of jealousy. Really like her tomb, A marvel.

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

^^^^ YEEEEH thankyou, someone else has heard of that too!!!
(the erasey thingy)

[flar7]

You do a lot of art history. Hers was a cool time for egypt. Lots was done.

[Zibblsnrt]

Which Cleopatra? There were like 7 - 9 of them ...

"The" Cleopatra was Cleopatra VII.

Cleopatra also blundered her kingdom into getting conquered by the Romans, so I'm inclined to say that Hatchepsut wins by default. ;)

(She was also Macedonian with an Egyptian veneer, like all the "Egyptian" rulers since Ptolemy, but that's a whole other topic..)

[Ahautenites]

I know I'm replying to one of the necro-polls, but I think Hatshepsut was the better ruler. She was King (not a queen).

Cleopatra VII was a very good ruler, too, (all of the others were lesser in greatness), but being a female King trumps being a ruling queen any day.

[Zibblsnrt]

I know I'm replying to one of the necro-polls, but I think Hatshepsut was the better ruler. She was King (not a queen).

Cleopatra VII was a very good ruler, too, (all of the others were lesser in greatness), but being a female King trumps being a ruling queen any day.

Well, "king" and "queen" are little more than gender-specific forms of the word "monarch." In most of the languages of Cleopatra's time, they were the same word, just inflected differently. What other distinction are you seeing there?

[Arion]

you forgot nefertiti

That's what I was thinking. There are new theories that she changed her name to Smenkare (since she had already changed her name to Nefer-neferuaten-smenkare, or something like that, when Akenaten founded his new religion), and she ruled Egypt after her husband's death as Pharaoh. There are depictions of her doing things only a pharaoh would do, and having duties only a pharoah would have, so its interesting to think about. I personally like this theory a lot. ;)

[Ahautenites]

Well, "king" and "queen" are little more than gender-specific forms of the word "monarch." In most of the languages of Cleopatra's time, they were the same word, just inflected differently. What other distinction are you seeing there?

Um, actually there's a VAST difference in ancient Kemetic society between being a King (Nisut-bity) and not being a King... even in Cleopatra's time. Whether the Romans or anyone else noted this distinction or not doesn't mean the distinction didn't exist.

Only the King is invested with the Kingly Ka, which is the soul part of godhood that the Names of Netjer (aka the gods) willingly imparted to the King, and ONLY to the King. (That's where the Royal Plurality or Royal We comes in. When a King says "We are not amused," it means that he, the man, is not amused, and he the king --with all that that entails, such as divine godhood-- is not amused. Both at the same time, therefore "we".)

Claiming lineage from the gods was the only way the ancients could orginally get the diverse people of the ancient Egyptian region to cooperate and be cohesive enough to be a single kingdom.

Anyone who was not invested with the Kingly Ka was not considered "King" by the people. And to a people who believed that without an official King, ma'at (balance/order) would cease to exist and isfet (chaos) would destroy their world, having a divine King was a reassuring thing.

Here's Her story in a nutshell. (http://www.touregypt.net/18dyn05.htm)

[Fyre_Nymph]

Voted Hatche. Would have done Nefrititi if she was there.

[Zibblsnrt]

Um, actually there's a VAST difference in ancient Kemetic society between being a King (Nisut-bity) and not being a King... even in Cleopatra's time. Whether the Romans or anyone else noted this distinction or not doesn't mean the distinction didn't exist.

Well, I'm pointing out that by Cleopatra's time Egypt was essentially no longer Egypt anyway, as the Macedonian conquest happened some 280 years earlier. It was a Hellenistic kingdom - one with Egyptian trappings cynically maintained at first just as the previous Achaemenid rulers had, to be sure, but a Hellenistic kingdom nonetheless. In other words, I'm not so sure the Ptolemaic rulers did see a distinction, as opposed to simply seeing themselves as basileis, inflected appropriately for the gender.

Basically, the Egypt managed by either monarch pretty much was a different place. There was a lot of continuity, obviously, but the two were separated by 1,400 years. A lot happened between their reigns, including one of the Intermediate Periods and several centuries of foreign conquest.

[Meadhbh]

Voted Hatshepshut got the spelling on the first try. Can't spell in englsih but I got Hatshepshut right, thats sad. Anyway I prefer her to Cleo myself. I'm no fan of any of the Ptolemy's myself. But, I must admit Cleo did the best she could with what she had to work with.

[omar]

There is now some evidence that one of the Popes was a woman?

[Celebornsbabysitter]

Hatchepsut was awesome in my opinion - loved leaning about her in ancient history