Aspecting.

[Jolantru]

Watching 'Sync or Swim' on cable prompted me to think about aspecting in ritualwork.

Some information about 'Sync or Swim': Basically, the presenter takes up a challenge to learn a certain dance-form in 7 days and to perform it in front of an audience. The one I'd watched was where he learned to dance in the form of the Rangda, a vicious demon-witch (with a fearsome mask and pendulous breasts).

Now, for the Balinese where this particular ritual-dance holds great significance, they are quite serious about people dancing as the Rangda. The Rangda represents evil and dancing her takes great courage and great spiritual strength. So, normally, a priest would bless the dancer before he takes the stage as the Rangda. But then, there is always the fear that the Rangda would take over the dancer and he would lose his mind.

So, for the presenter, it became a formidable task in which he felt a lot of anxiety and trepidation. On the 7th day, he danced the Rangda (together with the Barong, a mythological creature looking a cross between a lion and a dragon). He did feel the surge of adrenaline and he did report feeling evil. But after that, he took off the mask and it was alright.

The main thing, after babbling so much about it, is that how safe is aspecting?

So, for those who have aspected as dieties or their patron god/desses, do post your thoughts on this?


Jolantru

[ShamanFeather]

I really dont have anything to add to your question but I've been thinking about this sort of thing, what are some of the main purposes for aspecting? Is there something for the person doing it to gain or lose? I know its been done with a lot of cultures but Id like to learn more about it and why it is done.

[Jolantru]

I think there are other dances in Bali that can also induce trances. I think there is a particular dance whereby the dancer - usually female - dances as a fairy or a celestial being. But one thing about these dances is that the dancers start training from young (as young as 4, I think) and the teachers probably impress on them the lessons of dancing.

I am not sure why aspecting is done. Perhaps to be as close to the particular deity, god or goddess? To assume or take on the aspects of the particular deity? To see from his or her point of view? I know that this topic overlaps shape-shifting. Interesting to see how aspecting and shape-shifting are related.


Jolantru

[Morgandria]

In my tradition, we sometimes have invocatory rituals - the priestess/priest literally gives their body over to the Gods being invoked, and they are not present in their body when the God/dess is there. It's similar to aspecting, but closer, I would think, to trance-possession. Drawing down the moon is probably closer to aspecting than that, and sometimes when we have rituals involving priesthood who are taking on the roles of certain deities with a ritual they will aspect them.

The invocations can be dangerous - the priestess/Goddess always has an attendant with her at all times, usual two, and if things go wrong she can drop the vessel like a stone. Also, if she is displeased, she might jump into an unprepared vessel, or go back and forth between the two people (which I've seen happen). It's not pretty.

I don't have a lot of experiences with Drawing Down the Moon, so I couldn't really say much about it, but I have seen some people "lose" themselves to deity when they are portraying them in ritual. They usually aren't totally aware of it. I think it is less dangerous, as it isn't full possession, usually, but I think both it and invocation rituals require a certain level of experience and training for the person aspecting the Gods.

-M.

[Raven Reed]

I am supposed to do this before I complete my 3rd degree and the prospect scares me silly. The thought of giving myself over like that doesn't come easily to me.

[Windsmith]

We do aspecting quite a bit in Reclaiming. And it's not always just named deities - we aspect animal spirits, Ancestors, and sometimes even the embodiments of concepts like Pride, Grief, or Delight. Frequently we do something called co-aspecting, which allows the aspecter to have greater control over their body and consciousness while the Mysterious One is present.

Aspecting is quite safe - if you know what you're doing. First off, it's important to remember that you, not the Mysterious One, are your own ultimate authority. They may be Deities, but it's your body. You have not only the right, but in fact the obligation, to set boundaries - to say things like, "You're going to have this much control of my body for this amount of time, & while you are here you absolutely will not do anything that will harm my physical self." Also, no one should ever aspect without having someone to tend them.

As to why...there are many reasons. The first, quite simply, is to communicate with Mystery, to have the Mysterious Ones (who so often like to communicate in images and strange phrases that don't mean much) talk to us on human terms, in ways we understand. Frequently they have messages they want to convey to us, and someone letting them into a human body is often more effective than someone in an ordinary meditation or trance who might not remember everything (a person aspecting won't necessarily remember it, either, but that's why they have tenders & usually scribes).

Another is to give the Mysterious One an opportunity to view this world through human eyes, & us an opportunity to view it through theirs. For instance, I recently co-aspected Ant, one of my animal allies, who was fascinated by hands but pitied humans immensely for not being able to life 20 times our own weight. At the same time, I got access to an ant's amazing attention to the tiniest detail & an understanding of what it means to have all of your efforts be directed toward your community.

You asked, Jolantru, about aspecting your patron deity. What's interesting to me is that, given large enough groups of people, people seldom aspect their patron, unless they specifically invite that energy. If we just leave it open (as we often do in Reclaiming) to any being who "loves us beyond all reason and intends us no harm," without specifying who we want, it usually turns out that the deities who come are patrons of someone else in the group, someone who can talk to them & make sense of what they're saying. The first time I was involved in a ritual that had a full-body aspecting, the woman who was called to aspect had a strong relationship with Brigid & was really expecting her. Instead she aspected Hekate, the patron goddess of one of the ritual's priestesses. I think that's because the person who aspects rarely maintains clear memories of the experience, & if the Mysterious Ones are going to talk directly to humans, they want to talk to someone who'll remember & get the most out of it.

And that is my...oh, I'd say about $2.37's worth. If you have other questions about aspecting, ask away!

[Jolantru]

Good points, Windsmith.

Good point there but setting boundaries. Our bodies are our own. But, how did the woman who aspected Hekate feel after the aspecting? I think the only animal spirit/ally I have ever aspected (if I have used the word correctly, in the right context) is Phoenix. Even then, I was "co-aspecting". I was conscious of both Phoenix and myself.

Perhaps, I might want to elaborate why I wanted to post this question/topic. It's not only a matter of safety (or trust or belief). It's also a matter of losing yourself at the end of the day. I work in a shamanic context and I do shift into animal forms, mostly the wolf (which I feel a powerful affinity too - you can call me 'were' but I am more an animal person) and the Phoenix. Phoenix feels more 'external' and I do shift into Her form when I journey, say, to the Upper World. But even then, I feel that I am myself and Phoenix is the powerful ally I am just 'body-borrowing'. I do have times when I feel feathers and wings. When I emerge from the journey, I am myself but the experience of being that powerful ally remains. I haven't had experiences when I lose myself totally or have memory gaps.

Have anyone lost himself or herself in aspecting?


I hope I have made myself clear,
Jolantru

[semi]

I have never heard of aspecting until reading this thread. It sounds exactly like what's called "possession" in African paths. So if it's the same thing, I can say that I felt sleepy yet strong after the 2 times I've done it. Other people who I have seen do this are usually just sleepy afterwards and need a nap, and sometimes there has been a little nausea. It isn't dangerous as long as there are people there watching out for you.

Is aspecting basically the same as divine possession?

[Ivy Artemisia]

I have a question for the person who mentioned that you should have someone to tend to the one who is aspecting. What does that person do, exactly? I've aspected twice without any issues... what kind of issues should I expect in the future? :)

[Jolantru]

I have a question for the person who mentioned that you should have someone to tend to the one who is aspecting. What does that person do, exactly? I've aspected twice without any issues... what kind of issues should I expect in the future? :)

I would think that the person tending to the person who is aspecting serves/acts as a sort of watcher, a guardian. This person would protect the 'aspecter' (if there is such a word) from getting hurt. So generally, he or she watches over the 'aspecter''s well-being for that period of time.


Jolantru

[Windsmith]

Is aspecting basically the same as divine possession? By and large, except that I think that someone who aspects has more control over their body during the process. As I understand possession, you surrender your consciousness & your body pretty completely to the Deity. I think aspecting has more levels - you can do a full-body aspecting, or you can just do a very light one, almost more like oracular work. I feel that I am myself and Phoenix is the powerful ally I am just 'body-borrowing'. I do have times when I feel feathers and wings. When I emerge from the journey, I am myself but the experience of being that powerful ally remains. I haven't had experiences when I lose myself totally or have memory gaps.

Have anyone lost himself or herself in aspecting?Aspecting might be thought of as the reverse of what you describe. You describe yourself as borrowing Phoenix's body. In aspecting, Phoenix would borrow your body. That's why, in a full-body aspecting, the aspecter doesn't tend to remember much of what goes on - for that time, their own consciousness is put aside for the Mysterious One's. The people I know who've done that remember only flashes of it - sensations more than specifics. So, the woman who aspected Hekate went up to the woman who works with Hekate and said, "Everyone was so beautiful. But I thought you were the most beautiful person I'd ever seen." A friend who aspected Freyja said, "I had no idea what I was going to say until I pulled out my dagger, & then I just started talking. But I don't remember what I said, so I'm guessing that wasn't me." I have a question for the person who mentioned that you should have someone to tend to the one who is aspecting. What does that person do, exactly? I've aspected twice without any issues... what kind of issues should I expect in the future? I would think that the person tending to the person who is aspecting serves/acts as a sort of watcher, a guardian. This person would protect the 'aspecter' (if there is such a word) from getting hurt. So generally, he or she watches over the 'aspecter''s well-being for that period of time. Basically what Jolantru said. The Mysterious Ones don't always have the sharpest understanding of the limitations of the human body. When I co-aspected Ant, for instance, I spent the first couple minutes convincing Ant that, in this form, there was no need to be afraid of feet! :stomp: In the other direction, a Mysterious One doesn't always realize that things they want to experience might not be safe for the aspecter. During a ritual where a woman aspected Delight, Delight was totally fed up with clothes & kept wanting to strip & run outside - not the best idea in Minnesota in the middle of February! Or my friend who aspected Freyja - Freyja is a warrior; my friend is not - her tender helped "dissuade" Freyja from swinging that dagger around too much! In rare instances, no matter how firmly you set boundaries beforehand, no matter how clearly your contract with the Divine states that you will aspect for a certain amount of time and no longer, sometimes the One who comes to you...doesn't want to leave. Tenders are crucial at that point to understand what it'll take before they'll give your body back. Tenders are also important afterward, to make sure that you really are fully back in your body (sometimes, when we're not using our consciouness, it goes wandering off on its own.... :imout: ), to support you if the experience leaves you feeling a little weak, and to bring you chocolate. ;)

[Jolantru]

Tenders are crucial at that point to understand what it'll take before they'll give your body back. Tenders are also important afterward, to make sure that you really are fully back in your body (sometimes, when we're not using our consciouness, it goes wandering off on its own.... ), to support you if the experience leaves you feeling a little weak, and to bring you chocolate.


Heh, chocolate is always a good comfort food to have around. ;)

Thanks, Windsmith. I think I have a better understanding of what aspecting is.


Jolantru

[Teresa]

very good information in this thread,I really enjoyed reading it. magickalmeli I would not aspect with out a "watcher or tender" it can be very dangerous if things go wrong.

[Windsmith]

Thanks, Windsmith. I think I have a better understanding of what aspecting is. Any time! I love talking about this stuff - I'm much better at describing the things we actually do than what we believe, so these practical application questions totally pull me in.

[semi]

Windsmith, thanks for the clarification. Very very interesting.

[~Elise~]

Not much to add to this thread in the way of definations, but I can say I've experienced both. My last aspecting experience was quite sudden and unexpected...and I only aspected to others in a group meditation.
I had conscious recall of what happened to me outside the meditation...but not in the meditation. I knew I was speaking for the entity, but not a clue what was said until afterwards.

JMO and YMMV,

Elise

[Jolantru]

Hehe, practical application. :)

*grin*

This has been a wonderful thread. Keep the posts coming!


Jolantru

[souljourney]

I'd never heard the word "aspecting" used before. This sounds like what my New Age mom calls Channeling... but I'd never really heard of channeling a diety before. I can see that would be possible.
Windsmith I'd be curious as to your thoughts on JZ Knight and Ramtha, if you've heard of her and Him.
This is an awesome thread, btw.
I have never thought to try aspecting, and don't see a need to at this time, but this is great information to have.
Thanks.
SJ

[blackroseivy]

I've done a bit of "channelling deities" - -but it was when I had 2 manic fits that I have had as a bi-polar. My personality changed & I had no control over it; it wasn't in a sacred ritual setting or anything, I was totally alone, & a demonic sort of entity got me kicked out of my sister's house when I shoved her into a table (that's the absolutely WORST thing that happened). But that's more about my illness, I suspect, than true "aspecting", which is evidently very controlled - I'm another one that has never heard the term before, where does it originate?

[~Elise~]

To ME, aspecting and deity possession are two different things. One you let a Deity come in and use your body. Most times you have no knowledge of what happens while you aren't in your body. (that said, I do remember for the most part what is said and done when I've done this). This is why you need a tender or two to help you. This is something that should not be undertaken by an un-trained AND/OR unwilling individual. It is a huge matter of being able to get your ego out of the way and let the Deity take over. It is a trust issue as well. You have to trust the Deity to adhere to the guidelines and you have to have faith in your tender, that they will be able to handle whatever arises.
I see this as different than channeling, but that may just be a bit of semanitics on my part.

Aspecting is where you are in complete control of your body and thoughts...it is their words coming out. Usually you don't know what you're going to say and then all the sudden there it is.

That is how I define the two...in layman's terms anyway. Hope it makes some sense.

JMO and YMMV,

Elise

[Dawa Lhamo]

Aspecting is where you are in complete control of your body and thoughts...it is their words coming out. Usually you don't know what you're going to say and then all the sudden there it is. Which is similar to taking on the role of a deity or whatever in a ritual (particularly a festival)? Like, for example, for Imbolc, you take on the role of Brigid in the festival, and you may bestow certain blessings on the participants. You are in control and you are you; you can remember everything, but you are acting as Brigid, and really it is Brigid working through you to bestow the blessings herself. And like the aspecting, you may be inspired to say something completely unscripted. Is something like this a mild form of aspecting?

Tashi delek!
Dawa lhamo

[~Elise~]

yes...at least in my book, it is.

Elise

[Windsmith]

Windsmith I'd be curious as to your thoughts on JZ Knight and Ramtha, if you've heard of her and Him. Wow. I hadn't until just now, but I looked them up and, oookay then. Aspecting for fun and profit, eh? I don't like the idea of someone going around doing seminars and other "performances" where they make thousands of dollars off forcing the aspected being to jump in and out of them like a trained poodle through a hoop. If, that is, Knight really is aspecting. Mysterious Ones who are willing to be aspected often do so because they have a message, & that message is seldom, "Pay this woman $1,000 to lead you to spiritual enlightenment."

[Windsmith]

Hey! Look what I just found: a whole series of articles about aspecting in my tradition (http://www.reclaimingquarterly.org/86/rq-86-aspect-intro.html)! Why do I never think to go here first when I'm trying to find the words for all these concepts we use???

[~Elise~]

Those are great articles and I felt some of my experiences there and am glad I haven't felt some of the others, to be honest. In fact, with one of them, I almost left my body.

Since our two traditions are very close...I'm Feri...I'm not surprised the experiences are close.

Elise

[Jolantru]

Great articles! :)


Jolantru

[Jolantru]

Wow. I hadn't until just now, but I looked them up and, oookay then. Aspecting for fun and profit, eh? I don't like the idea of someone going around doing seminars and other "performances" where they make thousands of dollars off forcing the aspected being to jump in and out of them like a trained poodle through a hoop. If, that is, Knight really is aspecting. Mysterious Ones who are willing to be aspected often do so because they have a message, & that message is seldom, "Pay this woman $1,000 to lead you to spiritual enlightenment."

Me again.

I think if this is the case, there are many people who aspect for fun and profit. There are many channellers who channel Ascended Masters or Higher Beings (Archangels being the more popular). I don't like the idea myself. The Mysterious Ones are not trained poodles.

I would also wonder what kind of Mysterious Ones would willingly aspect just like that. There are many kinds of spiritual beings out there and there are those with dubious agendas.


Jolantru

[ShamanFeather]

Although it may be for profit they are in a better position to know the whole situation. and perhaps by aspecting for the person making the profit it will help someone who needs to hear their message find it at just the right time in their lives making the whole world of difference. spiritual beings lives are not like our lives, they will come if they want not if they don't. true they aren't poodles, but if i were omnipotent and i could be a help I would help. though indeed the spiritual answer of silence is an answer too.



we really shouldn't get into the pay thing though, it can dig up a whole bunch of opinions that this could turn into one huge ugly digression.

[Jolantru]

we really shouldn't get into the pay thing though, it can dig up a whole bunch of opinions that this could turn into one huge ugly digression.

I agree. It would open a can of Dune-size worms.


Jolantru

[Windsmith]

Those are great articles and I felt some of my experiences there and am glad I haven't felt some of the others, to be honest. In fact, with one of them, I almost left my body.

Since our two traditions are very close...I'm Feri...I'm not surprised the experiences are close.

Elise I thought you might be Feri; I saw the picture of Melek T'aus you posted in that other thread.

Aspecting can be scary sometimes. That's why our group is so careful about it, and about making sure people know what they're getting into beforehand. Granted, I think some of our elders go a wee bit too far - they almost put the "danger" on a level with experimental brain surgrey! - but their intention is right on.

[~Elise~]

I'm back in town...I just saw this post--so sorry for the late reply. Much better to be safe than sorry. It isn't tinkertoys that you are experimenting with and the consequences can be ...shall we say...less than desirable?

Thanks for the articles again.

Elise