Lesson 6B-Wyrd

[Rick]

Again, a few hundred sites to get you started...

http://web.ask.com/web?qsrc=6&q=Meaning+of+Wyrd+%3f&o=0&sitesrc=a4

[Mjollnir]

Anyone have anything regarding this and the previous lesson?

[Nantonos]

Anyone have anything regarding this and the previous lesson?
I hadn't realised that was a lesson. It was just a web search, no indication of which material was reliable and which was nonsense.

[Mjollnir]

I hadn't realised that was a lesson. It was just a web search, no indication of which material was reliable and which was nonsense.


A web search to read and come back with any questions that anyone has regarding the two lessons.

[mothwench]

well i think nantonos already asked the first and foremost question: which of the sites are nonsense and which are reliable. we don't need a thread for a web search. kwim? sorry to be a pain. :bigredblu

[Mjollnir]

Read through the material, as well as checking out Northvegr, Troth and come back with questions on what you have read and Rick and I will be happy to answer them.

[fallingwater]

I actually found a lot of information on Wyrd from these sites:

Here's two that helped me:

http://www.astrologycom.com/runes4.html

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/9313/run.htm

The three sisters or three fates are akin to the Hindu word OM which is actually chanted in three sections each meaning the 3 phases of existance...

AHHHHH...(the beginning, birth, spring, fire)
OHHHHH...(maturity, keeping the status quo going, earth)
MMMMMM...(death and rebirth, transformation, water)

So basically Wyrd is a web of energy patterns created by us and created by heaven?
Like Karma we reap what we sew but unlike Karma, everything that happens to us is not based solely on past actions. Sometimes it's the luck of the draw. So everything that happens to us is not within our control, although Wyrd is kinder to those who try to lean in a certain direction instead of throwing caution to the wind and letting the chips fall as they may. Wyrd is the darkness, the potential from which everything is created. From where we start and where we return.

Are we the Wyrd?

[Twig]

( bowing ) Hail and Greetings Rick RuneSinger and all who come here.

Though I'm not a student or teacher here, I saw the thread (Wyrd....nuff said :rollingla ! and if I'm not breaking etiquite would like to interject a question and comment or 2.

Rick, The Wyrd is a later addition to the bag as I understand it and I was wondering what your position on using the symbol of mystery is. I use it but I ask the person first if they belive in Fate.

Some time back I did a spread for a person and they said they belived in Fate and they didn't think it (The Wyrd) was a part of equation. That puzzle stuck with me and I couldn't shake it. I finally came to the conclusion that if they belive in Fate their subconscious would actively try to push them that way so it is better to not include it.

After all, the queriant (sp) is the one holding the purse strings heheh and should be given the choice.

Also the division on using/not using it has quite a large gap does it not?

Comments?

Peace,
Twig
(closet runemaster ;))

[KellyP]

For those of you which may be interested, I have attached a graphic summarizing the etymology of the term wyrd and its relation to the modern English term weird. I find it helpful to look closely at word origins changes in meaning when trying to understand the ways of our ancestors.

Hope some find this useful.

[KellyP]

The Wyrd is a later addition to the bag as I understand it and I was wondering what your position on using the symbol of mystery is. I use it but I ask the person first if they belive in Fate.

Some time back I did a spread for a person and they said they belived in Fate and they didn't think it (The Wyrd) was a part of equation. That puzzle stuck with me and I couldn't shake it. I finally came to the conclusion that if they belive in Fate their subconscious would actively try to push them that way so it is better to not include it.

After all, the queriant (sp) is the one holding the purse strings heheh and should be given the choice.

Also the division on using/not using it has quite a large gap does it not?
(closet runemaster ;))
You do runes in the closet? I would find that very constraining. :nonono:

I am also interested in hearing a discussion of a Wyrd rune. Personally, I tend to immediately reject any text that references such a rune and puzzle over anyone's posts which may include a reference to a "blank rune". But, discussing a rune might be outside the scope of this course.

[Mjollnir]

Concentrate on how the Norns affected Wyrd and also how we as individuals can hinder or help it.


I suggest you read Voluspa, Havamal, Svipdagsmal , Gylfaginning, The Saga of The Volsungs, Norse Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Heroes, Rituals and Beliefs by John Lindow. Gods and Myths of Northern Europe by H.R. Ellis Davidson and Myths of the Norsemen From the Eddas and Sagas by H.A. Guerber. In the Sagas and both Eddas they are mentioned and elaborated on a bit and a little further explanation can be found in the other 3 books I mentioned.

Wyrd comes down to this, your actions affect the outcome and your word holds weight...a lot of weight...if you say you are going to do something and you dont, that counts as negative Wyrd. It cannot be undone, only good words and actions built up over time can counterbalance it, it isnt like going to confession and having it all wiped away it stays there. Every promise you make or oath you swear goes into the Well, same as the words spoken in sumbel, if you cant back up what you say, dont say it because not only will others hear it but it goes into the horn forever and cannot be undone. If anyone has any further questions, post away but I suggest you all read what I listed to get a better idea of what Wyrd is and how the Norns play into it.

[fallingwater]

<Wyrd comes down to this, your actions affect the outcome and your word holds weight...a lot of weight...if you say you are going to do something and you dont, that counts as negative Wyrd. It cannot be undone, only good words and actions built up over time can counterbalance it, it isnt like going to confession and having it all wiped away it stays there. Every promise you make or oath you swear goes into the Well, same as the words spoken in sumbel, if you cant back up what you say, dont say it because not only will others hear it but it goes into the horn forever and cannot be undone. If anyone has any further questions, post away but I suggest you all read what I listed to get a better idea of what Wyrd is and how the Norns play into it.[/QUOTE]>

anyway to find out how much negative weird is built up for a person. There have been so many times I've said I was going to do something and I do it for awhile and it doesn't feel right, or circumstances change and I change the direction of my life. Like I promised my son I'd never move away from Georgia until he was 18, but I did move because staying in Georgia was bad for my health and was wrecking my relationship to the man I also promisd to be with forever. And my son and I talked a lot about this and I visit him often and he is doing well. So is that still in the horn??? What about saying I'm going to do a certain something career wise and changing it many times to adjust to my changing influences???

[Mjollnir]

anyway to find out how much negative weird is built up for a person.

Only you and the Gods know, unless you stated things publicy and other people are aware, but if they were said/done before you started down the path I for one am not sure.



There have been so many times I've said I was going to do something and I do it for awhile and it doesn't feel right, or circumstances change and I change the direction of my life.

Again, it all comes down to how and when these changes occured, were you already starting to live the way?



Like I promised my son I'd never move away from Georgia until he was 18, but I did move because staying in Georgia was bad for my health and was wrecking my relationship to the man I also promisd to be with forever. And my son and I talked a lot about this and I visit him often and he is doing well. So is that still in the horn??? What about saying I'm going to do a certain something career wise and changing it many times to adjust to my changing influences???


When I say in the horn I am talking about things said either during sumbel or just toasting the Gods alone, be the horn full of mead, beer juice or whatever anything said by you to them by way of toast, oath, promise etc. goes into the well aftewr you are done, which is why during blots or sumbels the horn is not supposed to be allowed to be emptied as everything said before that would be lost.

[fallingwater]

<Again, it all comes down to how and when these changes occured, were you already starting to live the way?>

No, I wasn't living the way, I knew nothing of Heathenism. I'm not sure I even know what you mean when you say, 'living the way."

<When I say in the horn I am talking about things said either during sumbel or just toasting the Gods alone, be the horn full of mead, beer juice or whatever anything said by you to them by way of toast, oath, promise etc. goes into the well aftewr you are done, which is why during blots or sumbels the horn is not supposed to be allowed to be emptied as everything said before that would be lost.[/QUOTE]>

I've never been to a blot or drunk from a horn. I'm going to an Asatru meet-up at a local coffee shop Thursday...it will be the first time I've ever met a Heathen in person. (that I know of.)

[Nantonos]

For those of you which may be interested, I have attached a graphic summarizing the etymology of the term wyrd and its relation to the modern English term weird. I find it helpful to look closely at word origins changes in meaning when trying to understand the ways of our ancestors.

Hope some find this useful.

It is. Also, PIE *wert- would become Gaulish uert so I looked that up in Delmarre and sure enough, there is such a word in Gaulish and it means 'to turn'. It seems to be used in a positive sense (theonym Uertumnus, 'changer') and in a negative sense also (ex-uerti-nin, 'disloyal').

The specific association with spinning or weaving types of turning seems to be confined to the Germanic words and does not seem to be found in the Gaulish ones.

[KellyP]

Concentrate on how the Norns affected Wyrd and also how we as individuals can hinder or help it.I am not sure of a specific reference as to how the Norns affected wyrd. It has been my understanding that wyrd is the connections (aka web) that touches all things. While the Norns have the responsibility of weaving the wyrd, they are merely reacting to events.



I suggest you read Voluspa, Havamal, Svipdagsmal , Gylfaginning, The Saga of The Volsungs, Norse Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Heroes, Rituals and Beliefs by John Lindow. Gods and Myths of Northern Europe by H.R. Ellis Davidson and Myths of the Norsemen From the Eddas and Sagas by H.A. Guerber. In the Sagas and both Eddas they are mentioned and elaborated on a bit and a little further explanation can be found in the other 3 books I mentioned. My goodness that is quite a list. And I am proud to say that I have studied all of these texts short of the Guerber writing. With all of that, I still find the Norns one of the most curious constructs of Germanic mythology.


Wyrd comes down to this, your actions affect the outcome and your word holds weight...a lot of weight...if you say you are going to do something and you dont, that counts as negative Wyrd. It cannot be undone, only good words and actions built up over time can counterbalance it, it isnt like going to confession and having it all wiped away it stays there. Every promise you make or oath you swear goes into the Well, same as the words spoken in sumbel, if you cant back up what you say, dont say it because not only will others hear it but it goes into the horn forever and cannot be undone.While I do see that honoring one's oaths is a key factor in the history of the Germanic peoples, I am not sure that this description of 'negative' wyrd as fitting. Wyrd is not like karma or sin that a person accumulates. Wyrd is the instantaneous connectedness of all things. What we see and experience is the expression of the wyrd. Being able to read omens from the flights of birds or the fighting of horses is dependent on understanding that these too are expressions of the wyrd.

Wyrd is fate and destiny. That which cannot be avoided.

Of course, all of this is my personal belief, and I am still reviewing many of the sources mentioned in an attempt to see how they relate to either the Norns or Wyrd specifically.

[Rick]

It is difficult to discuss wyrd without discussing orlog & hamingja, both of which are aspects that effect an individual's wyrd. Orlog is sorta like a family line's wyrd (orlog from ur, primal, & log, law... those may not be the exact dictionary definitions, but it gives the basic idea); you inherit a certain amount of orlog from your parents, and possibly from past lives. This might be best exemplified by the Sig heroes (Sigmund, Sigurd, Sigfried... sorry, I don't have a reference handy, but one was the grandfather, one the father, one the son, yet all incarnations of the same hero). They each carried the same orlog, which affected their individual wyrds to cause each to meet a grim & untimely end. Haminga is personal luck; this seems to be something that can be improved through doing noble or brave deeds. Good hamingja can, in some cases, overcome bad orlog.

I hope this wasn't too terribly confusing... I don't swear that I have my mind entirely wrapped around all of these concepts...

[Mjollnir]

I am not sure of a specific reference as to how the Norns affected wyrd. It has been my understanding that wyrd is the connections (aka web) that touches all things. While the Norns have the responsibility of weaving the wyrd, they are merely reacting to events.

There is a case in Guerber book where a norn was said to have torn the thread that was already woven for him, I will try to find it and post it. And what do you mean by reactin to events?


My goodness that is quite a list. And I am proud to say that I have studied all of these texts short of the Guerber writing. With all of that, I still find the Norns one of the most curious constructs of Germanic mythology.


Take Guerber with a grain of salt, if you have a basic understanding of the lore and the Sagas and Eddas you can see where she kinda gets all blubbery and other points which will ring a bell.



While I do see that honoring one's oaths is a key factor in the history of the Germanic peoples, I am not sure that this description of 'negative' wyrd as fitting.

To modern heathens it is certainly true, I just got home from a disablot and some new people were there and one of the things they were told before sumbel was to be careful of any oaths taken or promises made as since the tip of the horn is representative of being in the well, any words spoken not only affect them but the rest of the people present. It also has connections with orlog and hamingja that Rick has mentioned.


Wyrd is not like karma or sin that a person accumulates. Wyrd is the instantaneous connectedness of all things. What we see and experience is the expression of the wyrd. Being able to read omens from the flights of birds or the fighting of horses is dependent on understanding that these too are expressions of the wyrd.Wyrd is fate and destiny. That which cannot be avoided.

see my first response.


Of course, all of this is my personal belief, and I am still reviewing many of the sources mentioned in an attempt to see how they relate to either the Norns or Wyrd specifically.


In the books I listed there are references to the function the Norns played.

[Mjollnir]

The Story of Nornagesta in Guerbers book, ChapterXVII describes the instance I mentioned, actually that whole chapter has to do with the Norns, pretty informative.

[Mjollnir]

Here is a little more on the relation.

http://www.northvegr.org/intro/glossary.php

hammingja/ ancestral transmissible 'luck', in other words collective positive actions built up in one's ancestry conferring fortunate timing and occurrences in verðanði, may be given out in portion by those that hold it and have perfect control of it.

orlog/ 'ahead law', results of previous actions upon verthandhi.

vyrdr - wyrd/ overarching cycle of action and result, involving all members of the individuals' realm of experience. Also term for original created structure and motion of the Nine Worlds dictated by the weave of the Norns. It can be altered or changed by extraordinary effort, if the reasoning is noble or the goals to be achieved true.


http://www.northvegr.org/intro/blot.php

Blotr, or ritual, was in olden times held at least three times per year, during the solstices, and in early spring, although there was often a harvest festival, and many smaller rites amongst the community. Blotr is a means of directly giving back to the Elder Kin and to the energies in nature for what they have given, be it a good harvest, the blessing of children and livestock, security, or peace in the land. It can be as complex as a fortnight's community ritual of light, song and feasting, such as was practiced over the time of Winter Solstice, or as simple as offering a horn of ale. When it is performed together as a community it represents the emotion of the folk as a whole, and when it is done by the family, it strengthens the ties between the energies of the Elder Kin and ancestors, and the household, as well as strengthening the memory and spirit. Keeping the flow of othr and good-will between the worlds open and clear brings benefits even beyond what otherwise might be impossible for man fending alone for himself on Mithgarthr.
Deep thought and memory maintain the highest ties - of ancestral hammingja, of patronage, of duty in the individual's and the community's combined orlog, even of vyrd. Blotr should ideally be a reenacting of original patterns or actions set by the Elder Kin themselves. And it should be always remembered that the Elder Kin live within a society based upon gifting. In this way origins are never forgotten, and ties are never broken, but only strengthened and reinforced to grow and evolve further.
Often those with experience in leading others, or conducting rites, heads of families, or those perhaps more familiar with the inner workings of ritual, are chosen to serve as priests or priestesses at larger functions. A man serving this role is called gothi, a women, gythja. If anyone has a particular fulltrui, or patron amongst the Elder Kin, and the rite or blotr is dedicated to that one, that person may be chosen to lead for that rite. These things are all a matter of experience, knowledge in the particular energy being called upon, familiarity with the need of the community or individual for whom the rite is being performed, and so forth. Many families have their own patrons and particular patterns of rites and rituals, holy days and special events, so too have many individuals.
The most important thing to remember, whether one in able to attend community festivals or not, whether one is attached to a community or group or not, is to give. Giving from the heart, with a sense of duty, or a sense of love - better yet that these two be felt as one thing - is what is important. Keeping the ties that bind truly bound gives a freedom, security and strength that is impossible to understand unless one takes action. Follow the example your Elder Kin set for you in creating the Nine Worlds and granting you life with all its joys, and give.

[Mjollnir]

Does anyone have anything else they would like to discuss regarding the lessons on Wyrd and the Norns before we move on to Lesson 7?

[orgtigger]

You do runes in the closet? I would find that very constraining. :nonono:

I am also interested in hearing a discussion of a Wyrd rune. Personally, I tend to immediately reject any text that references such a rune and puzzle over anyone's posts which may include a reference to a "blank rune". But, discussing a rune might be outside the scope of this course.
It may be a bit late to respond (Or maybe not). When I made my first set of runes I included a 'Blank' rune to represent Wyrd, it was there to indicate that some things were either 'not to be known/revealed' or that 'the outcome was in the hands of the gods'. I can't remember ever drawing it as a 'past' rune.