A Year And A Day?

[Furi]

I was wondering if anyone here follows the year and a day rule. I have heard much about this and gotten many conflicting opinions so I was just wondering-what do you think?

I think its great, I did this and felt very prepared and informed when it was over and most importantly sure. I was sure about Wicca as my path.

So how about you all? Did you follow this? Why or why not? Do you wish you had?

[BeachWitch]

Since coming out of the Solitary closet, about 5 or 6 years now, I have just recently become an Adept. So no, I did not follow the "year and a day" tradition, I spent an average of 2 years per degree.

After seeing how loosely the Degree system is held throughout the community, I am glad I took longer. The Degree means something to me, and the knowledge is priceless.

[RubyRose]

I tried but its a little more difficult when your a Solitaire in Australia.

[Bix]

I think it's a good idea because it makes you seriously consider the path you've chosen. Brings more serious seekers in and whatnot.

[Xentor]

Although not Wiccan myself, I think the "year and a day" time span is useful in separating the fluffy from the serious. It's a time in which the students themselves can decide whether their chosen path is the best choice for them.

[Iris]

Well I don't know much about 'degree systems' or whatever but when I first began researching Paganism I found several sources suggested 'a year and a day' of study as a way to explore the various paths without making a definite committment. I thought that doing it would solve some of my questions...really all it did was lead to more questions! I think it was a pretty good thing to do though, certainly learned a lot...and I agree with what Bix said...it makes you think seriously about Paganism, instead of just dabbling.

[-Ember]

Well, not wiccan, but the grove I'm in respects that rule/holds to it for pre-initation. Just not always literally. In practice, student to dedicate to neophyte tends to be closer to 2-3 years.

The understanding I have of it is that it symbolizes having experienced a full cycle of the path, both feast and famine, warmth and cold, before commitment. A commitment not made in ignorance of the ups and downs. Perhaps not understanding yet, but not ignorance.

For other degrees... usually quite a bit longer than that. Easily over a decade after first to third, if one does.

[Aidron]

I'm not Wiccan, but I think it's bullshit. I never adhered to it (even when I was Wiccan) as I saw no point. You will continue to study, to learn, to grow... it doesn't end after a year and a day, three years and three days, or forty years and seventy days. Some claim it is wise to study for such a long time before practicing, but experience is the best teacher and getting your hands in there and working will teach you a great deal. I certainly have learned more from practicing than I ever have from studying. Will someone who is new to their craft make mistakes? Yes. Will I after around 10 years? You bet. Should someone who is new to their craft tamper with forces they don't yet comprehend? No. Should I after again around 10 years? No.

The point is, if you have enough common sense and wisdom, there's no reason to truly wait. Mishaps will occur, but if you are careful about the magic you weave you will survive and you will learn from your mistakes. Much like myself, they should continue to study and explore new theories, practices and allow their craft to evolve as they wish. If you do not understand the principle or principles behind magic in general, then by all means, yes do take some time to study. Once you know the basics, what it is, how it works, and how to harness it and improve your skill there's no need to sit around waiting for valuable time to pass while you hang on to some rigid tradition that may not make sense for you (or in my opinion, for anyone). Don't include things in your workings that you are unaware of the power they contain. If you only understand the magic behind color, work with only it until you can become more well versed in other such practices, like herbology, geology, astrology, divination, necromancy and so forth.

As for covens where you need to truly know the tradition before you begin practicing, you will of course need a bit more extra study before you do things as per the tradition. Regardless, I can't say I would ever respect any tradition that disallows the freedom to practice, experience and learn.. so long as you are knowledgable in details of your working. If you know why your tradition does what it does, the reasons behind their practices, then I see no point in denying yourself the right to practice.

[Jenett]

Aidron -

I'm curious - which groups have you come across that don't allow someone to practice at all during that year and a day period?

Most groups I know may have some limitations (for example, the group I trained with asked us not to cast circle on our own until we covered that material in training: if we were doing something that would normally involve it, they wanted to talk to us about it first.) That only lasted maybe 3-4 months, though, and it wasn't a big deal, just something that made it much easier for us to learn the tradition because we weren't constantly crossing back and forth between two methods. (Now that we know the tradition method, what we do at home on our own is completely up to us.)

Every group I've been familiar with certainly encourages practice and learning and trying stuff out. They may just have suggestions about which bits first.

That's always made a lot of sense to me. If you're learning how to ride a horse, drive a car, make pottery, cook, or any one of many other skills that have some safety issues, it makes sense to start with some stuff (basic skills or things that don't have a lot of risk), and then work up as you build skill and experience.

The problem with magical systems is that for many people, it's not always obvious which bits have which risks. (And there's some stuff that may be more risky for some people than for others, depending on their needs or issues.)

For the stuff that is, in some cases, restricted, again, every group I know of has some good reasons for that. Often, they feel you need specific skills or support while you're learning it, and that it isn't something to do solely on your own. In other cases, some traditions feel that there is a karmic tie between the teacher and the student. In that case, it's certainly polite (as well as a good idea for other reasons) to make sure the teacher is aware of what the student is doing in whatever areas they feel that affects.

(This one was part of the root of 'don't do magical work without checking with us first'. If we were going to be coming to them if something went wrong or didn't work, it made a *lot* more sense to give them a heads up first. And, after all, we wanted them as teachers, so excluding their opinions from the related work we might do at home didn't make a lot of sense.)

[~Elise~]

I agree 100%, Jenett

[Furi]

Thanks for the great posts all. When first trying to choose a year and a day I thought it was a bit sillybut eventually decided to go with it. That way I could find out how serious I was. Actually a year and a day was up for me about only 4 monthes ago. I am a newbie like crazy, lol.

[Ben Trismegistus]

I'm not Wiccan, but I think it's bullshit. I never adhered to it (even when I was Wiccan) as I saw no point. You will continue to study, to learn, to grow... it doesn't end after a year and a day, three years and three days, or forty years and seventy days. Some claim it is wise to study for such a long time before practicing, but experience is the best teacher and getting your hands in there and working will teach you a great deal. I certainly have learned more from practicing than I ever have from studying. Will someone who is new to their craft make mistakes? Yes. Will I after around 10 years? You bet. Should someone who is new to their craft tamper with forces they don't yet comprehend? No. Should I after again around 10 years? No.
Aidron, before you go around calling something bullshit, you should make sure that you haven't entirely misinterpreted it.

The point of the "year and a day" is not to prevent you from practicing. It's simply a trial period, a chance to try it out without obligation before deciding if it's really for you before committing to it.

[MorningDove030202]

This is also my interpretation of "year and a day", for me I called my self a Pagan until I had practiced enough and studied Wicca for at least a year, and then I started calling myself Wiccan. It wasn't about abstaining from magickal practice, it was a trial period to make sure Wicca was the right path for me. I also assoicate "year and a day" with handfastings.
Dove


Aidron, before you go around calling something bullshit, you should make sure that you haven't entirely misinterpreted it.

The point of the "year and a day" is not to prevent you from practicing. It's simply a trial period, a chance to try it out without obligation before deciding if it's really for you before committing to it.

[~Elise~]

There are some covens that during training restrict SOME practices until covered in studies, etc.
While my group is not a coven, there are some things that I do restrict until 1) I know my student's capabilities and 2) it is covered in their training.

I am investing A LOT of my time into training these students, and that does establish some ties between us, I don't want to have to deal with the nasties that they can run into once they are over their head. It is easier just to tell them no spells until talking to me. This only applies to the ones that are new to me and I don't know all their abilities yet.

I help them all I can...but I need some help from them as well. Once you have trained others for awhile you understand why some people need the restrictions on them...I was always against it before I trained for a couple of years...then I had a couple of students messing with things that were WAY over their heads...I gave them the option to either quit messing around or quit studies...they quit studies. And I've still cleaned up a couple of messes for them a couple of years later. They didn't learn a thing.

Elise

[ollathair]

I don't follow the Year and a Day rule. In my opinion, and it is JUST an OPINION, the Year and a Day is unnecessary and, relatively, new. I shall quickly explain my reasoning ... in the 'old days' 'witches', or wise women/men, were solitary. They were the village healers and worked alone. They didn't have a coven, or formal training, yet they also didn't have anything bad happen to them as a result of their 'witchcraft' (other than being hung in the US and burned in Europe).

As they grew older they would take on an apprentice to pass down their knowledge and that is about as far as covenship went.

However, AFTER the onset of the 'burning times' survivors would gather in groups to pass on their knowledge -- the advent of covens, in my view. I look at it like this ... a group of people (let's say the ubiquitous 13) gather together and trade spells/knowledge. That way, if 12 are caught and hung/burned the 13th has the vault of all their knowledge, or at least as much as that person was able to remember. Yet, even then, a Year and a Day never came into play as they probably didn't HAVE a Year and a Day before at least one of them was caught and tried.

But, don't forget, this is PURELY my OPINION and is not necessarily correct :)

**edited to add**
I am a solitary hege/kitchen/cottage witch, any and all apply, and I have not brought any misfortune down upon myself or others due to lack of 'formal' training.

[Ben Trismegistus]

There are some covens that during training restrict SOME practices until covered in studies, etc.
While my group is not a coven, there are some things that I do restrict until 1) I know my student's capabilities and 2) it is covered in their training.
Yes, there is that. The year and a day idea applies moreso to a group setting. In traditional Wiccan groups, the year and a day refers to the amount of time you need to work before being initiated.

And just so you know, it's not an exact date, just a general idea. In my case, it was about 13 months. :)

[DebLipp]

The year and a day rule applies specifically to life passages. Initiations and elevations are life passages. There is wisdom in knowing that you have seen a full cycle of seasons at one level before being sure you will move to the next level.

This doesn't mean you will just stand still during that waiting period, and it doesn't mean that after a year and a day you are automatically ready for passage.

For example, when training a student, a year and a day is the minimum amount of training that student must receive before initiation. They may receive 2 or 3 or more years. They may never become initiated. And during that year and a day they will certainly study, and practice, and actively learn and interact. Whatever restrictions are placed on that year and a day are unique to the study program we are undergoing.

Similarly, to go from 1st to 2nd degree, one continues to practice and train and explore and learn. One isn't frozen for a year and a day. But the major life passage of initiation should be absorbed and experienced before leaping into 2nd.

Certainly in more ancient times apprenticeship took a period of time, as did the journeyman level. These things took time. People were once more patient; we live in a very rushed society.

There is such enormous depth of wisdom in the period of a year and a day that I counsel it for other life passages. Date someone for at least a year and a day before becoming engaged. If someone is considering leaving Wicca, I counsel them to take a leave of absence for a year and a day while deciding. I took a year and a day sabbatical from teaching before choosing to retire (I was retired for 5 years, during which I wrote 3 books).

8 sabbats. 13 moons. These things are our teachers. We should learn to look at them before we leap.

[Aidron]

Aidron, before you go around calling something bullshit, you should make sure that you haven't entirely misinterpreted it.

The point of the "year and a day" is not to prevent you from practicing. It's simply a trial period, a chance to try it out without obligation before deciding if it's really for you before committing to it.


I have not misinterpreted, and my comment stands. I have met many, many groups over the years who insist on interpreting the tradition in this way. This is not to say it is always encouraged or followed in such a manner, but I've come across it in this manner more often than not.

As for commiting to it, I fail to again see the point. If you are not sure you wish to commit then don't. Regardless of whether you do or don't, it is not as if your spirituality is cast in stone. I see no reason why anyone should have any qualms about relenquishing a spiritual path a year, four years down the road. After all, most Pagans have done exactly the same thing concerning Christianity and baptism.

[Iris]

As for commiting to it, I fail to again see the point. If you are not sure you wish to commit then don't. Regardless of whether you do or don't, it is not as if your spirituality is cast in stone. I see no reason why anyone should have any qualms about relenquishing a spiritual path a year, four years down the road. After all, most Pagans have done exactly the same thing concerning Christianity and baptism.

Hence the reason, I would suggest, that a lot of pagans are unwilling to leap blindly into a new faith...they like to be sure of what they're doing second time around, especially since a lot of pagans who converted from Christianity were, earlier in their lives somehow 'encouraged' or even 'forced' to follow a faith they didn't necessarily feel was right for them.

Personally I feel that exploring a new faith before you make a definite decision can only be a positive thing. No-one wants to leap into something they're not fully prepared for. The fixed time period of 'a year and a day' gives you a goal of sorts, and human often work better when they're working towards a goal, rather than just saying 'Well I'll study for the rest of my life' it's easier to take a more manageble chunk of time initially and see how things go from there. One step at a time, if you will. :)

[Aidron]

Hence the reason, I would suggest, that a lot of pagans are unwilling to leap blindly into a new faith...they like to be sure of what they're doing second time around, especially since a lot of pagans who converted from Christianity were, earlier in their lives somehow 'encouraged' or even 'forced' to follow a faith they didn't necessarily feel was right for them.

Personally I feel that exploring a new faith before you make a definite decision can only be a positive thing. No-one wants to leap into something they're not fully prepared for. The fixed time period of 'a year and a day' gives you a goal of sorts, and human often work better when they're working towards a goal, rather than just saying 'Well I'll study for the rest of my life' it's easier to take a more manageble chunk of time initially and see how things go from there. One step at a time, if you will. :)


I perceive this as needless limitation, however. Who is to say you cannot perform and behave in this exact manner for the entire course of your life? Again, it comes across as if after the period of serious study, spiritual exploration and soul-searching introspection is up... that's it. No need to bother with that stuff anymore, you're on this path and that's that.

Frankly, I say continue these things eternally. They need not end or be restricted to time, which is merely an illusion anyway in my frame of mind (though I'll avoid delving into that unless asked). There is no reason to dedicate yourself for a year and a day to serious study and profound questioning of where you wish to tread spiritually. Commit yourself to that for the rest of your life. As you grow older, it should change. If it doesn't that is stagnation and ultimately will wind up with your spiritual self dying slowly in my opinion.

It's just one more superfluous approach if you ask me. I never held to it for a year and a day, I've held to it from the day I delved into the occult into the present and will continue to do so until I no longer have the willpower to grow and evolve (i.e. I'm brain dead). There is no need to blindly step into anything, nor is there any reason not to step into something right away and see how it fits. The important thing is that you don't let go of that alert state of mind and passion. Exploration should certainly not begin or end with any new faith, it should be something you strive for continuously.

[Lunamoth]

You do realise you're all saying the same thing right? let's all keep learning from day one on, yadda yadda. Yeah, you're all saying the same thing.

Aidron, I think what people are taking exception to is you calling something that is an important part of an established belief system - potentially theirs - bullshit. In a word, some find that offensive. Can't imagine why. ;)

[Iris]

I perceive this as needless limitation, however. Who is to say you cannot perform and behave in this exact manner for the entire course of your life? Again, it comes across as if after the period of serious study, spiritual exploration and soul-searching introspection is up... that's it. No need to bother with that stuff anymore, you're on this path and that's that.

Frankly, I say continue these things eternally. They need not end or be restricted to time, which is merely an illusion anyway in my frame of mind (though I'll avoid delving into that unless asked). There is no reason to dedicate yourself for a year and a day to serious study and profound questioning of where you wish to tread spiritually. Commit yourself to that for the rest of your life. As you grow older, it should change. If it doesn't that is stagnation and ultimately will wind up with your spiritual self dying slowly in my opinion.

It's just one more superfluous approach if you ask me. I never held to it for a year and a day, I've held to it from the day I delved into the occult into the present and will continue to do so until I no longer have the willpower to grow and evolve (i.e. I'm brain dead). There is no need to blindly step into anything, nor is there any reason not to step into something right away and see how it fits. The important thing is that you don't let go of that alert state of mind and passion. Exploration should certainly not begin or end with any new faith, it should be something you strive for continuously.

Not to sound...well, whatever...but I think you're missing the point. The point is NOT to say "Right I've done my year and a day, now I know EVERYTHING and can stop learning." that is ABSOLUTELY not the point at all! The point is to give yourself somewhere to start from, something that sounds more managable. When you first begin to research paganism all the different aspects of it can be rather bewildering...the year and a day is to familiarise yourself with the basics and see if you want to go DEEPER. It's not a matter of starting DEEP and then allowing your faith to become more shallow...to stop studying...it's a matter of starting DEEP and going DEEPER...is this making sense?

It's clear that this approach held no merit for you, Aidron, but different people find different things helpful and personally, I found it as good a place as any to start out. You don't learn 'everything' in the year and a day...you don't learn EVERYTHING about paganism even in a lifetime! Never once did I think to myself 'once my year and a day is up, I won't need to learn anything else'. Quite the contrary. I knew that if I decided to follow this path earnestly, I was committing myself to more difficult and intense study and practise. I do accept that I will be learning for the rest of my life, and I'm fine with that...I think most pagans who are committed to their paths feel the same. But if the 'year and a day' helps them to start out in the right direction...then where is the harm? :)

[Calen]

I've only been studying for about 11 months, and I definitely did not abide by the year-and-a-day rule earlier on, and while it might have been a good idea to do more reading at first than I did, I have also learned a lot from my experience. I'm not Wiccan, although I many of my beliefs are similar. I abstained from spellwork for the last several months, because I decided that I wanted to take things more slowly. It is different for me, because I am a solitary, but I still think that learning before doing is a good idea.
As far as thinking long and hard about whether a certain path is right for you before comitting, that's not really an issue for me. My path is evolving as I go.

[BeachWitch]

Maybe because I played sports and had to practice daily to be any good.

The average topics in Wicca for First Year studies take AT LEAST one year. Most of the time, covens can't finish in 12 months, it may take 15 or 18 months. It's not about the TIME it's about the lessons.

Unless you were raised as a witchling, there is no way you can cover the bottom line basics of just the practice.... the physical movements and sayings and what not, takes a minimum of one year.

We aren't even delving into the Religious aspects of the faith in the first Year, that comes much later.

Any group or coven that will automatically give you a First Degree after a year and a day is probably blowing a lot of smoke.

[Kitfox]

I like the idea that a long study is needed to truely understand things, but I don't think it stops after one year and a day. I mean, I celebrated my first anniversary a year and a day from my dedication day, but I also used that kind of thinking when studying tarot and other forms of divination.

It's a nice thought and a good guide for learning something new, but we should always continue to learn after that time. We shouldn't just throw our books and practice down after a year and a day and say, "Oh, I know everything know!"

But it's a good goal for learning a new skill.

[skilly-nilly]

Not that what's already been said isn't valid, but there is another process to consider as well. Most people come to Wicca and covenage from
some other belief system. They need time to re-learn perception, that is to un-learn the attitudes and underlying assumptions that they brought with them and habituate themselves to different perceptions. it's not (as far as I who am uncovened can understand) that the student can't do anything but study, but that the student needs instruction, practice, and supervision to become good enough at new perceptual modes and practices to be safe doing and perceiving on hir own.


The concept of 'a year and a day', as far a I know, isn't a 'Wicca' thing but historical. In medieval times, serfs were tied to the land they were born on. As cities grew up, the old concept of staying in your place was challanged since the inhabitants of the cities were not vassels but free people. Serfs who were able to escape to a city and live there for a year and a day without discovery were also considered to be free.

Reference:
http://historicaltextarchive.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=71

TOWN AIR IS FREE AIR: Words used in many town charters to proclaim freedom to any serf who lives there for a year and a day with out being claimed by his lord.

So the application of this historical term/concept to Wicca is not that one must study for a year and a day before doing anything but that one must live in the new principles for AYAAD before being free of their past identity, neh?

[ollathair]

Well, judging by the majority of posts that I've read on this thread, the consensus seems to be that Solitary Witches/Wiccans/Whatever can never learn? Boloney! I am a Solitary Wiccan and Witch. I learn and I learn in my own time and at my own chosen speed. If I take 10 months, or 20 months, to learn enough to have progressed a level had I been in a Coven (which I deplore the thought of) then so be it. In my OPINION, a Year and a Day is something that is only useful to people who cannot shake the ties of formal religion and NEED to be led through their spiritual life. I guess I find similarities between Covens and mainstream churches and I have escaped those bonds.

Don't forget ... these are just my OPINIONS :)

[MorningDove030202]

Don't forget ... these are just my OPINIONS :)

Thanks for shareing your opinion with out insulting the practices of others. :heartthro I agree, covens arn't for everyone, though I think most people enojoy some fellowship.

Dove

[DebLipp]

Well, judging by the majority of posts that I've read on this thread, the consensus seems to be that Solitary Witches/Wiccans/Whatever can never learn?

I totally don't see where that was said. Maybe you can pull a quote or two, because I seem to have completely missed that part.

[Ben Trismegistus]

I would just like to know why solitary witches/wiccans/pagans get so defensive around those of us in covens. Nowhere on this board have I seen anyone suggest that solitaries are stupider, less knowledgeable, or in any way not "real" witches/wiccans/pagans/whatever. On the contrary, I believe we've gone out of our way to insist that there are many ways to be a "real" whatever, and that what works for us may not work for you and vice versa.

In response, we've gotten derided for our attachment to "rules", "dogma", and "structure", as if those things made us Nazi slavedrivers or something. Not everyone, of course, but there's a fair number of people on this board who seem to view us as oppressive or strict or simply misguided. That, given our utilization of hierarchy and ritual codification, we're just one small step away from *gasp* Christians.

Well, one of the great things about our religion is that there are many different ways to achieve the same ends. I happen to enjoy the coven structure, the degree programs, the familiar rituals. You may not, and I wholeheartedly embrace your right to worship however you see fit. I simply ask you to do the same for us.

[souljourney]

I have been studying all things Pagan/Wicca for about 2 years now. Would I say I know as much as my friend, in a coven btw, after her 1 year and a day? NO. And here is why... because she had 13 books to read in that time, reports to write, journal to keep, meditation exercises, divination class for 12 weeks, etc, etc. She had to really STUDY. I have just dabbled... I skim/read some books... use my tarot cards, etc. But she had to put things to use, gather her tools, create her alter... I haven't done that yet completely. I think if you follow a PLAN... whether solitary or in a coven then a year and a day is a good starting point. I know people who have been Wiccan/Pagan, etc for 7-8 years and I know more than they do about some things. I don't know what they have as a base of knowledge. I think that is why the year and a day schedule of study is good... if you need it to take longer to get through ok. And not all plans of study need to be the same. But they will have a lot of overlap if they are Wiccan. There is a book for Solitaries out... called something like "A year and a day"... and basically it's a study guide. I think if someone is really serious they will study, do homework (keep journal, etc) even if it is only for themselves. I have begun a course of study to do this year and a day... but that just feels right to me. I know that won't mean I know everything... but I will have a more stable/solid foundation... and even know about some subjects that may not appeal to me, but are needed.
This is all Just My Opinion... so take it with a few grains of salt if you disagree.
SJ

[~Elise~]

I agree 100% with what Ben just said. While my group isn't a coven, we do have some of the same stucture, (although we are more Wolf pack-like than coven like), I get tired of being called manipulative, etc myself.
No one has EVER said solitaries can't OR don't learn on their own. I was solitary myself for 5 years before I even went into the public arena and met other pagans. And in the public arena for about 3 years before starting my group.

Elise

[PoisonIvy]

I'm not wiccan but it prolly did take at least a year and a day to find my true path.

[StarSpiral]

I've never been part of a formal group or done formal training so my take of "a year and a day" is from my perspective as a solitary. I personally love the tradition and celebrate the day of my dedication every year and review what I've learned and set goals for the next year in regards to my spirituality.

I think it would be especially important when joining a group or Tradition to work with it for a full year's cycle before making a commitment to join. This is both for the good you - so you know enough about the group to make an informed decision about whether or not it fits you and your beliefs - and the group - to see if you fit them and if you have the dedication required to make a longstanding commitment.

[Dawa Lhamo]

I would just like to know why solitary witches/wiccans/pagans get so defensive around those of us in covens. Nowhere on this board have I seen anyone suggest that solitaries are stupider, less knowledgeable, or in any way not "real" witches/wiccans/pagans/whatever. On the contrary, I believe we've gone out of our way to insist that there are many ways to be a "real" whatever, and that what works for us may not work for you and vice versa.

In response, we've gotten derided for our attachment to "rules", "dogma", and "structure", as if those things made us Nazi slavedrivers or something. Not everyone, of course, but there's a fair number of people on this board who seem to view us as oppressive or strict or simply misguided. That, given our utilization of hierarchy and ritual codification, we're just one small step away from *gasp* Christians.

Well, one of the great things about our religion is that there are many different ways to achieve the same ends. I happen to enjoy the coven structure, the degree programs, the familiar rituals. You may not, and I wholeheartedly embrace your right to worship however you see fit. I simply ask you to do the same for us.Thank you, thank you! Nowhere in this thread have I seen anyone say that you *have* to do a year and a day or you don't count as a Wiccan or whatever. In fact, most people have agreed that it's a useful convention to mark a period of study and that's about it.

Now, I approach religion like I approach painting. I see the value and merit in very expressive abstract pieces, but for myself, I prefer Tibetan thangka painting, which is highly structured and precise. There's a sense of connection, both with the culture and with the deity, and going through the whole process of painting carefully is an act of devotion. It's not really about me, it's about the painting and the deity.

Similarly, I don't see myself as chained by ritual, but I see it as a careful process of devotion. I still have those spur-of-the-moment *connections* of course, but it's with the familiar forms of ritual that I make the connection the most powerfully. For me.

And many people find it useful to have forms and conventions to assist marking their different passages through life. Others don't. But I see Pagans as generally practical, and if something isn't useful, it won't be used.

YMMV
Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Dawa Lhamo]

Unless you were raised as a witchling, there is no way you can cover the bottom line basics of just the practice.... the physical movements and sayings and what not, takes a minimum of one year.And even if you were, some program of (semi) formal training can be useful. Some things just come out of osmosis, but there are some things that just need to be taught, at least in more traditional paths... ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[DebLipp]

And even if you were, some program of (semi) formal training can be useful. Some things just come out of osmosis, but there are some things that just need to be taught, at least in more traditional paths... ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo
Just ask my son. He figured, with the Famous Parent Syndrome®, he'd just pick it up by osmosis. Finally he realized that wasn't going to cut it and is now in formal training.

[MorningDove030202]

I have alot of respect for solitary practice, because if there is one thing I've learned from witchschool (which I am prety much studying on my own, so it's solitary with structure) it's that group work does not replace solitary work. When you take on a group you are realy doing both solitary and group work. It's not one over the other, at least in my experience.

I think there are two key words to take into consideration when talking about any kind of practice, and that's structure and dicipline. I found it easier to use someone else's structure (witchschool) than to invent my own, and I'm still working on the disipline issue. I procrastinate , alot! It's taken me 14 months to get to lesson 5! But hey, at least I keep working on it. But anyone can come up with their own structure, weither it's read a book, and do all the exercises, and journal about it, or if it's a set of visualizations or prayers every day or week, but I think structure is necessary to denote a practice. It's not a practice if you arn't practicing it, right? The disipline to stick to the structure is the hard part, and I'm not perfect at it! LOL

Dove