General Confrence. (LDS thread)

[Gwyndara]

I belong to the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Otherwise known as the LDS community or more widely known as the Mormons.
I create this thread today, because of the wonderful Spiritual expierince I had today.
Every six months, my religion has a general confrence, where our spiritual leaders share with us what we call "talks".

One of the talks was on a chapater and verse in the Pearl of Great Price.

Moses 7:32-33
"And the Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands, and I gave unto them their knowledge, in the day I created them; and in the Garden of Eden, gave I unto man his agency;"

"And unto thy brethren have I said, and also given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father; but behold, they are without affection, and they hate their own blood;"

The words that stood out and were foucused on were agency and love one another.
Agency is the freedom to choose.
and so I choose to love my brothers who are mankind.
thats not the entire talk, but thats what stood out to me.
For some reason, I can't express my feelings the way I want.

The other talk was from the Doctrine and Covenants.
Section 11:20
"Behold it is your work, to keep my commandments, yea, with all your might, mind and strength.

It is for me to do my part as a christian and to live the laws set before me.
I can not say I love my neigbor and then persecute other religions.
I can not say you are my brother in the Lord and then say your beliefs are invalid.

Another of the talks was from our Prophet.
He again reminded us that we can have friends of other faiths, and still remain strong and true to our own. That our children can indeed play with children of other faiths.
Our God is not a respector of persons. He loves us all.

I do not do these talks justice, and I would have to have a copy of them at hand to share
with you all I learned.

You all have shared so much of your paths and your faiths with me.
I thought it was my turn to share something with you.
I understand how many of you feel about Christianity and even "Mormonism" but please I ask you to respect my faith, as I respect yours.

[Gwyndara]

According to my Bible Dictionary

Angels

These are messengers of the Lord, and are spoken of in the epistle to the Hebrews as "ministering spirits" (Heb. 1:14).

We learn from latter-day revelation that there are two classes of heavenly beings who minister for the Lord: those who are spirits and those spirits and those who have bodies of flesh and bone.

Spirits are those beings who either have not yet obtained a body of flesh and bone (unembodied), or who have once had a mortal body and have died, and are awaiting the resurrection (disembodied).

Ordinarily the word angel means those ministering persons who have a body of flesh and bone, being either resurrected from the dead (reembodied), or else translated, as were Enoch, Elijah, etc. (Doctrine and Covenants section 129)
There are many references to the work of angels in the Old Testement. In some passages the "angel of the Lord" sspeaks as the voice of God himself (Gen.22:11-12).
The word angel is also sometimes used to designate a human messenger, as in JST Gen.19, and may have some application also in Matt.13:39-42.
There is evidence of nonmortal beings who serve God in heaven (1 Kgs.22:19; cf. Alma 36:22) and some also of some who do God's will and minister to men on the earth (Gen.28;12; 32:1; 2 Sam.24:16; 1 Kgs.19:5-7; 2 kgs. 1:15, 19:35; Ps.91:11).

We find angels mentioned by name in Dan. 8:16; 9:21; 10:13, 21; 12:1; Luke 1:19, 26. In latter-day revelation we learn that the angel Michael is Adam, and the angel Gabriel is Noah (HC 3:386)

In the New Testement there are many references to the ministry of angels, but no clear statement as to their nature or their relation to mankind in general.
Angels attended on our Lord throughout his life on earth (Matt. 1 :20; 2:13, 19; 4:11; 28:2-8; Luke 1:11-20, 26-30; 2:9-15; 22:43).

Jesus often spoke of angels (Matt.13:14-30, 37-41; 16:27; 18:10; 22:30; 24:36; Luke 15:10, etc.).

The sadducees did not believe in supernatural beings, but the Pharisees believed in both angels and spirits, which fact Paul used to his advantage when brougt before the Sanhedrin (Acts 23:7-9)

Other New tesetement references are Acts 7:53; 1 Cor. 4:9; 6:3; 11:10; Gal. 1:8; 3:19; Col. 2:18 (where we are warned against the worship of angels), and throught the Revelation of John.

There are references to fallen angels in 2 Pet. 2:4 and Jude 1:6
The Scriptures speak of the Devils angels. These are those spirits who followed Lucifer and were thrust out in the war in heaven and cast down to the earth. See Rev. 12:1-9; Doctrine and Covenants 29:36-38; Moses 4:1-4; Abr. 3:27-28, and as alluded to by peter and Jude cited above.

Latter-day revelation contains much about the natrue, ministry and identification of angels.

I will continue this when, I come backonline tonight.
Latter-day revelation contains much about the nature, ministry, and identification of angels. See 2 Ne. 32: 2-3; Alma 12: 28-29; 13: 24-26; Moro. 7:29-31; Doctrine and Covenants 7: 6-7; 13; 37; 76: 21; 110: 11-16; 128: 21; 129; 132: 16-18.

Angels do not have wings (HC 3: 392)

The word angel is used in various ways. A person who is a divine messenger is called an angel. Thus Moroni, John the Baptist, Peter, James, John, Moses, Elijah, and Elias all minister3ed to Joseph Smith as angels. These all shall be exalted and inherit celestial glory.

The scriptures also speak of another class of persons who, because of failure to obey the gospel, will not be exalted and will become angels in eternity. These are spoken of as angels in Matt. 22: 29-30 and Doctrine and Covenants 132: 16-18. This latter designation should not be confused with the use of the term angels having reference to the heavenly messengers sent forth to minister to the inhbitants of the earth.

[-Ember]

I'm very glad you had a spiritual experience. The main point of conversation I've heard on it was over gambling. The dicotomy never fails to startle me. Back when I worked Temple parking under the Conference Center, I met many people undergoing wonderful spiritual experiences.... and many more who might as well have been getting their teeth cleaned for all of the spirituality of it. It is good to be reminded that there are those who do get something spiritual out of when far too often it is the other type ("Utah Mormons"... cultural fanatics who embarrass most of the more faithful members I've met) who are far more vocal about it.... the spiritual ones tend not to object so much to the non-LDS.

[Gwyndara]

I'm very glad you had a spiritual experience. The main point of conversation I've heard on it was over gambling. The dicotomy never fails to startle me. Back when I worked Temple parking under the Conference Center, I met many people undergoing wonderful spiritual experiences.... and many more who might as well have been getting their teeth cleaned for all of the spirituality of it. It is good to be reminded that there are those who do get something spiritual out of when far too often it is the other type ("Utah Mormons"... cultural fanatics who embarrass most of the more faithful members I've met) who are far more vocal about it.... the spiritual ones tend not to object so much to the non-LDS.

Thankyou.
I happen to be a Utah member.
But I am not a cultural fanatic.
I try to actualy live the way the religion was ment to be lived.

[Gwyndara]

I'll explain the beggining of existence to you, As it is belived in my religion.

In the very beginning, we were inteligences, who God and his wife created Spirits from. We became the Literal Spirit Children of God.
He had Tons of Children.
Jesus was his Oldest Spirit Child.

This is a process of which has been going on for Eternity.
a process that if we are rightoues we will continue.

So Heavenly Father who is God, gathered his children together.
We all came to the meeting.
Heavenly father explained to us, that if we wanted a body like him.
If we wanted to become a God as he is a God, then we needed to come to the Earth. We would have to follow his commandments.
We would make mistakes, but he would provide a Savior for us.

Jesus volunteered to be that savior, and then so did Satan.
Jesus wanted to follow the plan. Satan wanted to change the plan.
God chose Jesus to be our Savior.
Satan was angry and started a "war".
1/3rd of the hosts of heaven followed him, and they were cast out of heaven. They were never to recieve a body, and would never be able to go to any of the kingdoms of heaven.

now, we wanted to follow this eternal plan.
so God Created our Earth, and sent us here to gain a Body and to follow his teachings.

So we are born, we follow the commandments then we die.
after death we go to either Paradise or Prison to await our Ressurection.
and our final judgement.
After our Ressurection and Judgement then we go to one of three kingdoms depending on our faithfullness.

Okay so what are Angels.

The first man who was Adam is the same Angel from heaven named Michale who helped God create the earth.

Noah is the angel Gabriel, who told Mary she would have God's Literal Son.

So angels are us after we die, and sometimes sprit children, not yet born to the earth will be a messenger for God, which gives him or her the tittle of Angel.

To be an Angel one must be sent by god to give a message, or to watch over whom the Lord asks them to watch over.

The Prophet Moroni, who burried the aincent record of the Book of Mormon, Came back to earth as a heavenly messenger, an Angel, and showed Joseph smith were he had burried the record.

A worthy young man, who decides not to marry in the temple will become an Angel for eternity. Instead of the Godhood he could have had.
He holds the priesthood, and must find a wife in this life. That is one of his priesthood responsibilities.

A worthy woman, who never has the opertunity to recive a temple marriage in this life, because no one ever asked for her hand in mairrage, will have that opertunity after she dies. She will become a Goddess to her Husband.

If that woman chooses not to be sealed then she too if she is righteous will be an angel in heaven.

I hope that this has not confused you.
Please if you have any questions, just ask.

You my dear, have the opertunity to become a Goddess or a God.
That is why we share the gospel with everyone we know, becasue we want all of our brothers and sisters of the spirit to have that opertunity in there life.
One must be baptized, for baptisim is the key to the door of the celestial kingdom.
One must be endowed in the temple and given the keys to enter the door of the second degree of glory in the Celestial kingdom.
One must be Sealed in the temple for it is the key to open the door of Godhood and be exactly as our Heavenly Father, were we will create worlds the same as he has.
If one recieves the first two and not the last, by choice, then they become an Angel in heaven.
But why settle for being an Angel, when one can be a God.

[Gwyndara]

President Ezra Taft Benson, then President of the Quorum of the Twelve, taught:
"Grace consists of God's gift to His children wherein He gave His Only Begotten Son in order that whosoever would believe in Him and comply with His laws and ordinances would have everlasting life.
"By grace, the Saviro accomplished His atoning sacrifice so that all mankind will attain immortality.
"By His grace and by our faith in His atonement and our repentance of our sins, we receive the strength to do the necessary works that we otherwise could not do by our own power.
"By His grace, we receive an endowment of blessing and spiritual strength that may eventually lead us to eternal life ifwe endure to the end.
"By His grace we become more llike His divine personality.
"Yes, it is 'by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.' What is meant by the phrase 'after all we can do?'
"After all we can do' includes extending our best effort.
"After all we can do' includes living His commandments
"After all we can do' includes loving our fellowmen and praying for those who regrd us as their adversary.
"After all we can do' means clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, and giving 'succor to those that stand in need of our succor' (Mosiah 4:16), remembering that what we do unto one of the least of God's children, we do unto Him (Matthew 25:40).
"after all we can do' means leading chaste, clean, pure lives, being scrupulously honest in all our dealings, and treating others the way we would want to be treated"
(taken from Come unto Christ {1983},7-8)

[NieceOfTheMagi]

Gwendara,

I'm moved to applaud you for posting your beliefs and your experiences here.

Although the LDS and I no longer see eye to eye, it hasn't been so long ago that I can't understand and applaud your courage and fortitude.

I still believe that LDS is a great place to begin. And if you choose Christian (or have Christianity choose you, sometimes your path just plops itself if front of you until you do find yourself walking it {: ) by no streach of the imagination a shabby place to stay.

Oh.. I'm afraid i'm just not doing this well.

I just wanted to say, good for you for starting a thread in a peculiar place. You must be a peculiar people/person. (Inside mormon joke)

Keep it up. :fpeace:

[~*Ginger*~]

I'm wondering if perhaps you may be able to add this as part of your visiting teaching?
Seems likely, and a good idea.

[bshore]

You know, I've never known much about Mormonism, but from your descriptions it sounds beautiful. I'm glad you have a spiritual path that is so moving and fulfiling for you. May you always be so blessed.

[kitsch]

i agree. ^^

[-Ember]

Thankyou.
I happen to be a Utah member.
But I am not a cultural fanatic.
I try to actualy live the way the religion was ment to be lived.

I'm refering to a particular subset. They have acquired the title of "Utah Mormon" to seperate them out from those who are simply belivers or LDS. The ones who are LDS because they never question dominant culture or because they are converted fanatics who moved to Zion. The ones determined to legislated LDS values. The ones most of the Lds people I know locally are disgusted with, the ones who had out of state Temple goers in tears or a rage regularly when I worked there... and the reason I feel I lasted longer than the LDS attendents (they depressed them... the "I forgot my f'ing token in the f'ing temple and I'm not paying the f'ing $10, raise the f'ing gate" members.)

There are a lot of good examples, and when lived well it is a very interesting religion. I mostly have problems with the other type. It is just always heartning to recall the other type is still there, although less vocal.

[Gwyndara]

I have studied so many religions and non religions LOL that my head went spinning. I find that the LDS faith gives my soul the peace it craves.
Now if only I could give my vocabulary the spelling it deserves LOL
Yes I suppose you would call me one of thoes "Peculiar People".
No, they won't let me count this as visiting teaching, I checked. :P
Actually, I love visiting and home teaching, I am able to stay in touch with the "sisters" in the congrigation, "ward". I enjoy helping them along their path and hope that they enjoy visiting me.

[Gwyndara]

Holy Ghost. The third member of the Godhead and, as the name implies, a personage of spirit, not possessing a body of flesh and bones (Doctrine and Covenants 130: 21-22).

The Holy Ghost has been manifest in every dispensation of the gospel since the beginning, being first made known to Adam ( 1 Ne. 10 :17-22; Moses 6: 51-68).

The Holy Ghost is manifested to men on the earth both as the power of the Holy Ghost and as the gift of the Holy Ghost. The power cancome upon ne before baptism, and is the convincing witness that the gospel is true. It gives one a testimony of Jesus Christ and of his work and the work of his servants upon the earth. The gift can come only after proper and authorized baptism, and is conferred by the laying on of hands, as in Acts 8: 12-25 and Moroni 2: 1-3. The gift of the Holy Ghost is the right to have, whenever one is worthy, the companionship of the Holy Ghost. More powerful than that which is available before baptism, it acts as a cleansing agent to purify a person and sanctify him from all sin.
Thus it is often spoken of as "fire" (matt. 3: 11; 2 Ne. 31 :17; Doctrine and covenants 19: 31).

The manifestation on the day of pentecost (Acts 2) was the gift of the Holy Ghost that came upon the Twelve, without which they were not ready for their ministries to the world.

For some reason not fully explained in the scriptures, the Holy Ghost did not operate in the fulness among the Jews during theyears of Jesus' mortal sojourn (John 7: 39; 16: 7).
Statements to the effect that the Holy Ghost did not come until after Jesus was resurected must of necessity refer to that dispensations only, or it is abundantly clear that the Holy Ghost was operative in earlier dispensations. Furthermore, it has reference only to the gift of the Holy Ghost not being present, since thr power of the Holy Ghost was operative during the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus; otherwise no one would have received a testimony of the truths that these men taught (cf. Matt. 16: 16-17; 1 Cor. 12:3).

when a person speaks by the power of the Holy Ghost that same power carries a conviction of the truth into the heart of the hearer (2 Ne. 33:1).

The Holy Ghost knows all things ( Doctrine and Covenants 35:19) and can lead one to know of future events ( 2 Pet. 1: 21).

Other names that sometimes refere to the Holy Ghost are Holy Spirit, Spirit of God, Spirit of the Lord, Comforter, and Spirit.

[Gwyndara]

QUICK FACTS & INTERESTING TIDBITS About The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints

Fleeing continued mob attacks, 158 years ago today the first Mormon
pioneers desperately started their Westward trek from Illinois in the dead
of winter. Of the 70,000 who began this 1300-mile journey, 6,000 were
buried along the way, including many children. The following are quick
facts and interesting tidbits about this now flourishing church.

OVERVIEW

* Named "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"; informal
nicknames are "LDS" or "Mormon."

* Believes it's the Lord's restoration of original Christianity as
foretold to occur before Christ's Second Coming.

* Core focus is that Christ and His teachings bring happiness in this
life and exaltation in the next.

HISTORY

* In 1820 14-yr-old Joseph Smith told of a vision of God and Christ
foretelling a church restoration.

* Organized in New York in 1830, the church moved to near Cleveland, then
near Kansas City, then Illinois.

* Fleeing Illinois, Mormon pioneers founded Salt Lake City in Utah and
over 600 other Western communities.

SALT LAKE CITY

* Temple Square in Salt Lake has over 5 million annual visitors, more
than the Grand Canyon.

* The Mormon Tabernacle Choir is the world's most famous and has the
world's oldest radio program.

* The Salt Lake Temple is the most famous, but there are 128 other
temples built or underway.

* Home of the world's largest genealogy database; visit it online or
through 3,700 free branch libraries.

ACTIVE CONGREGATIONS

* Sunday services entail a three-hour block of three meetings; about
27,000 congregations exist worldwide.

* Highly vibrant programs exist for youth, children, singles, men, and
women; very strong family focus.

* Everyone has a calling; some surveys show LDS have the highest U.S.
attendance and service rates.

* Families receive personal fellowship visits at home from other members
on a monthly basis.

FINANCES

* Members tithe 10 percent, plus donate generously to the needy the first
Sunday of each month.

* Clergy and all other congregational positions are unpaid (however, much
of the janitorial is paid).

* The church has no debt; all buildings are paid for in cash (average of
two new congregations a day).

* The paid positions in Salt Lake are famously low-salaried; funds are
frugally used and tightly audited.

HEALTH CODE

* With a health code from 1833, LDS avoid alcohol, tobacco, illegal
drugs, coffee, and tea (herbal tea is ok).

* This 1833 code also teaches grains (especially wheat), fresh fruits and
vegetables, and sparing use of meat.

* A UCLA study showed that active LDS live longer than most Americans,
men by 11 years, women by 8.

* Utah is 50th in smoking, alcohol consumption, drunk driving, heart
disease, cancer, and sick days.

EDUCATION

* With four colleges, Utah's BYU with 30,000 students is the largest
single-campus private college.

* BYU Independent Study with 130,000 students is North America (340 web
courses, 530 via mail).

* Seminary, a daily class usually held around 6:00 A.M., serves 376,000
high school students.

* There are Institutes of Religion at 1,950 colleges worldwide that serve
367,000 college students.

* The church operates schools in parts of the Pacific Ocean and Mexico
for 10,000 students.

* Utah is 50th in spending per pupil, but first in adults that graduated
from high school and attended college.

WOMEN

* In 1842 the "Relief Society" was organized; it's the largest women's
organization in the world.

* Wyoming was first to allow women to vote; Utah was second, two months
later, in 1870.

* Women preach from the pulpit and serve as organization presidents,
teachers, committee chairs, etc.

SHARING CHRIST'S GOOD NEWS

* 61,000 missionaries serve in 165 countries; 93 percent are college-age;
22 percent are female.

* Unpaid and paying their own way, most work 65 hours a week for two
years, often in a new language.

MEMBERSHIP DISTRIBUTION

* LDS are 70 percent of Utah, 30 percent of Idaho; after Catholics, LDS
are the largest sect in 10 states.

* The church has 5.5 million members in the U.S., making it the fourth
largest individual U.S. denomination.

* Some memberships: New Zealand 95k, Japan 115k, UK 175k, Philippines
500k, Brazil 900k, Mexico 925k.

* Worldwide 51 percent are female; about 55 percent are not Caucasian;
about 70 percent are converts.

MEMBERSHIP GROWTH

* For the last 15 years, every day an average of 800+ people worldwide
joined the LDS church.

* Half of the growth is in Latin America, but the rate of growth is
highest in Africa and the former Soviet bloc.

* Worldwide membership just passed 12 million, a tenfold increase in 50
years.

* In 1984 a non-LDS professor estimated 265 million members by 2080; so
far growth has been faster.

* As this growth has been steady, he said it will be the "first 'new'
major world religion since Islam."

CHARITY/SERVICE

* Members in need obtain welfare from the LDS Church (thus Utah
government welfare spending is very low).

* LDS donate time at 220 welfare storehouses or canneries and about 400
farms (a FL ranch is 312k acres).

* There are 210 employment centers placing over 175,000 people annually,
and 64 family service centers.

* The church operates 46 thrift stores, in part to provide employment for
the disadvantaged.

* The 61,000 missionaries spend half a day each week doing
non-proselytizing community service.

HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE

* Over 200 million pounds of food, clothing, and medicine were donated
in the last 20 years in 147 countries.

* Almost all of this help is to non-LDS; LDS charities also work with and
donate to many non-LDS charities.

* Very rapid disaster relief has been given in 144 major disasters since
1986.

* Almost 3,000 welfare "missionaries" work without pay in 55 countries
(farm instructors, doctors, teachers...).

* LDS charities fund a wide variety of projects like drilling water wells
or funding small business startup loans.

* New in 2001, members in poor areas can get low-rate college loans;
10,000 loans have been made to date.

GRAB BAG

* Utah is first in: charitable giving, scientists, household computers,
children with two parents, and birth rate.

* Noted LDS included five senators, the Osmonds, Gladys Knight, Steve
Young, and the inventor of TV.

* LDS played a key role in the 2002 Winter Olympics; the chair is now the
governor of Massachusetts.

* Hawaii's #1 tourist site is the LDS Polynesian Cultural Center (Tonga
and the Samoas are one-third LDS).

* LDS have sponsored Boy Scout troops since 1913; 23 percent of all Scout
troops are LDS.

* The BYU Women's Cross Country were national champions or in second
place each of the last seven years.

DETROIT AREA

* The Detroit metro area has 30 congregations; the Dearborn chapel is on
Rotunda by Ford's Building #5.

* Detroit has a temple, storehouse, cannery, employment and family
service office, and family history libraries.

* LDS include former Governor Romney, three former Lions quarterbacks,
and hundreds of Ford employees.

[Gwyndara]

Question:
What does the Church teach about Satan?

Answer:
Satan, also known as the devil or Lucifer, is an enemy of God and of all those who endeavor to do the will of God. He attempts to entice and tempt all men and women to do evil or wrong. He uses deception and the imitation of good to lead people away from God. He cannot force or coerce an individual against his or her will to do evil and follow him. His objective is to make all mankind miserable. He once lived in a pre-earth or premortal life in the presence of God before this earth was created. He rebelled against God and the eternal plan of progress and righteousness. He persuaded many others to follow his rebellion all of whom were cast out of God’s presence. They are damned in their development for they do not receive physical bodies. They work to influence and tempt those who dwell as mortals on the earth. All who are obedient to God’s commandments and follow the principles of goodness and righteousness are protected from Satan’s influences. The time will come when Satan will no longer have power over men and women, and his works will cease.

Question:
What does the Church teach about hell?

Answer:
In the scriptures, hell is spoken of in at least three senses: (1) That condition of misery which results from disobedience to divine law, whether the individual acknowledges the consequences of their actions or not. (2) The condition of misery experienced by those individuals who did not repent while on earth and who will live in a world of spirits after their demise on earth. It is a temporary state of existence until they have repented and are resurrected and stand at the final judgment. (3) The permanent habitation of Satan and those who follow him and who have knowingly rejected and denied the influence of righteousness, goodness, and God their Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

[Gwyndara]

The Family: A Proclamation to the World

The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God's eternal plan.

Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. "Children are an heritage of the Lord" (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.

[Gwyndara]

Many people as me what my belifes are.
Here are the 13 articles of Faith.
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon this the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

[ap Dafydd]

You one of those folks who have multiple wives and all marry their cousins?

[jaygriff]

That wasn't nice Ap dafydd.

She is just trying to share some of the finer points of the LDS church that most people overlook because at ONE point in their history, SOME of the men had more than one wife. Among other things this was due to the hardships the LDS people endured as they fled west. Many of the men were killed by mobs leaving their wives with children unprotected.

Personally, I had a bad experience with the Mormon church in New Mexico when I lived there. The bishop told my grandmother (who I was living with at the time) what I had told him in confession. It resulted in my getting sent back to my mother (not an active member at the time) with 30 minutes to pack my things. I have had difficulty reconciling what I had learned from the scriptures with my experiences (more than one) with the church and have since found a different path that while simular to the LDS path is non-denominational (my beleifs are between me and the higher power) and focuses on treating others the way I would prefer to be treated.

From my experiences on different bulletin boards, this is some thing that many people could probably use a dose of.

[jaygriff]

I remember learning all of the articles of faith to music when I was in sunday school. Funny enough I can still sing the 13th article of faith to this day, but couldn't recite it with out going through the tune if I tried. :D

[Gwyndara]

Faith
What we need today is faith in the living Christ, which is more than a mere feeling, but a pwer, that moves us to action a faith, that will put purpose into life and courage into the heart.

Repentance
is turning away from that which is low and striving for that which is higher.
a change of life, a change of thought, a change of action.

Baptism
The entrance into the kingdom of God, the doorway into his church, and to bury our old life and be guided by his holy spirit.

We make covenants when we are baptized alma taught that when we are baptized we make covenants with the Lort to comeinot the flod of God, bear oneanother's burdens, stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all places, and serve God and keep his commandments.

when we are baptized and deep the covenants of baptism the lord promises to forgive our sins, pour out his spirit more abundantly upon us, give us daily guidance and the hlp of the holy Ghost and let us come forth in the first resurrection, and give us eternal life.

The Holly Ghost
The gift of the Holy Ghost, which enlightens their minds, quickens their understandings, and imparts unto them a knowledge of christ.

[Gwyndara]

This IS what the Atonement REALLY means.

The Purifying Power of Gethsemane
Elder Bruce R. McConkie
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Bruce R. McConkie, The Purifying Power of Gethsemane, Ensign, May 1985, 9

I feel, and the Spirit seems to accord, that the most important doctrine I can declare, and the most powerful testimony I can bear, is of the atoning sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ.

His atonement is the most transcendent event that ever has or ever will occur from Creation's dawn through all the ages of a never-ending eternity.

It is the supreme act of goodness and grace that only a god could perform. Through it, all of the terms and conditions of the Father's eternal plan of salvation became operative.

Through it are brought to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Through it, all men are saved from death, hell, the devil, and endless torment.

And through it, all who believe and obey the glorious gospel of God, all who are true and faithful and overcome the world, all who suffer for Christ and his word, all who are chastened and scourged in the Cause of him whose we are, all shall become as their Maker and sit with him on his throne and reign with him forever in everlasting glory.

In speaking of these wondrous things I shall use my own words, though you may think they are the words of scripture, words spoken by other Apostles and prophets.

True it is they were first proclaimed by others, but they are now mine, for the Holy Spirit of God has borne witness to me that they are true, and it is now as though the Lord had revealed them to me in the first instance. I have thereby heard his voice and know his word.

Two thousand years ago, outside Jerusalem's walls, there was a pleasant garden spot, Gethsemane by name, where Jesus and his intimate friends were wont to retire for pondering and prayer.

There Jesus taught his disciples the doctrines of the kingdom, and all of them communed with Him who is the Father of us all, in whose ministry they were engaged, and on whose errand they served.

This sacred spot, like Eden where Adam dwelt, like Sinai from whence Jehovah gave his laws, like Calvary where the Son of God gave his life a ransom for many, this holy ground is where the Sinless Son of the Everlasting Father took upon himself the sins of all men on condition of repentance.

We do not know, we cannot tell, no mortal mind can conceive the full import of what Christ did in Gethsemane.

We know he sweat great gouts of blood from every pore as he drained the dregs of that bitter cup his Father had given him.

We know he suffered, both body and spirit, more than it is possible for man to suffer, except it be unto death.

We know that in some way, incomprehensible to us, his suffering satisfied the demands of justice, ransomed penitent souls from the pains and penalties of sin, and made mercy available to those who believe in his holy name.

We know that he lay prostrate upon the ground as the pains and agonies of an infinite burden caused him to tremble and would that he might not drink the bitter cup.

We know that an angel came from the courts of glory to strengthen him in his ordeal, and we suppose it was mighty Michael, who foremost fell that mortal man might be.

As near as we can judge, these infinite agonies, this suffering beyond compare, continued for some three or four hours.

After this, his body then wrenched and drained of strength, he confronted Judas and the other incarnate devils, some from the very Sanhedrin itself; and he was led away with a rope around his neck, as a common criminal, to be judged by the arch-criminals who as Jews sat in Aaron's seat and who as Romans wielded Caesar's power.

They took him to Annas, to Caiaphas, to Pilate, to Herod, and back to Pilate. He was accused, cursed, and smitten. Their foul saliva ran down his face as vicious blows further weakened his pain-engulfed body.

With reeds of wrath they rained blows upon his back. Blood ran down his face as a crown of thorns pierced his trembling brow.

But above it all he was scourged, scourged with forty stripes save one, scourged with a multithonged whip into whose leather strands sharp bones and cutting metals were woven.

Many died from scourging alone, but he rose from the sufferings of the scourge that he might die an ignominious death upon the cruel cross of Calvary.

Then he carried his own cross until he collapsed from the weight and pain and mounting agony of it all.

Finally, on a hill called Calvary, again, it was outside Jerusalem's walls, while helpless disciples looked on and felt the agonies of near death in their own bodies, the Roman soldiers laid him upon the cross.

With great mallets they drove spikes of iron through his feet and hands and wrists. Truly he was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquities.

Then the cross was raised that all might see and gape and curse and deride. This they did, with evil venom, for three hours from 9:00 A.M. to noon.

Then the heavens grew black. Darkness covered the land for the space of three hours, as it did among the Nephites. There was a mighty storm, as though the very God of Nature was in agony.

And truly he was, for while he was hanging on the cross for another three hours, from noon to 3:00 P.M., all the infinite agonies and merciless pains of Gethsemane recurred.

And, finally, when the atoning agonies had taken their toll, when the victory had been won, when the Son of God had fulfilled the will of his Father in all things, then he said, "It is finished" ( John 19:30), and he voluntarily gave up the ghost.

As the peace and comfort of a merciful death freed him from the pains and sorrows of mortality, he entered the paradise of God.

When he had made his soul an offering for sin, he was prepared to see his seed, according to the messianic word.

These, consisting of all the holy prophets and faithful Saints from ages past; these, comprising all who had taken upon them his name, and who, being spiritually begotten by him, had become his sons and his daughters, even as it is with us; all these were assembled in the spirit world, there to see his face and hear his voice.

After some thirty-eight or forty hours, three days as the Jews measured time, our Blessed Lord came to the Arimathaean's tomb, where his partially embalmed body had been placed by Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathaea.

Then, in a way incomprehensible to us, he took up that body which had not yet seen corruption and arose in that glorious immortality which made him like his resurrected Father.

He then received all power in heaven and on earth, obtained eternal exaltation, appeared unto Mary Magdalene and many others, and ascended into heaven, there to sit down on the right hand of God the Father Almighty and to reign forever in eternal glory.

His rising from death on the third day crowned the Atonement. Again, in some way incomprehensible to us, the effects of his resurrection pass upon all men so that all shall rise from the grave.

As Adam brought death, so Christ brought life; as Adam is the father of mortality, so Christ is the father of immortality.

And without both, mortality and immortality, man cannot work out his salvation and ascend to those heights beyond the skies where gods and angels dwell forever in eternal glory.

Now, the atonement of Christ is the most basic and fundamental doctrine of the gospel, and it is the least understood of all our revealed truths.

Many of us have a superficial knowledge and rely upon the Lord and his goodness to see us through the trials and perils of life.

But if we are to have faith like Enoch and Elijah we must believe what they believed, know what they knew, and live as they lived.

May I invite you to join with me in gaining a sound and sure knowledge of the Atonement.

We must cast aside the philosophies of men and the wisdom of the wise and hearken to that Spirit which is given to us to guide us into all truth.

We must search the scriptures, accepting them as the mind and will and voice of the Lord and the very power of God unto salvation.

As we read, ponder, and pray, there will come into our minds a view of the three gardens of God—the Garden of Eden, the Garden of Gethsemane, and the Garden of the Empty Tomb where Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene.

In Eden we will see all things created in a paradisiacal state—without death, without procreation, without probationary experiences.

We will come to know that such a creation, now unknown to man, was the only way to provide for the Fall.

We will then see Adam and Eve, the first man and the first woman, step down from their state of immortal and paradisiacal glory to become the first mortal flesh on earth.

Mortality, including as it does procreation and death, will enter the world. And because of transgression a probationary estate of trial and testing will begin.

Then in Gethsemane we will see the Son of God ransom man from the temporal and spiritual death that came to us because of the Fall.

And finally, before an empty tomb, we will come to know that Christ our Lord has burst the bands of death and stands forever triumphant over the grave.

Thus, Creation is father to the Fall; and by the Fall came mortality and death; and by Christ came immortality and eternal life.

If there had been no fall of Adam, by which cometh death, there could have been no atonement of Christ, by which cometh life.

And now, as pertaining to this perfect atonement, wrought by the shedding of the blood of God, I testify that it took place in Gethsemane and at Golgotha, and as pertaining to Jesus Christ, I testify that he is the Son of the Living God and was crucified for the sins of the world. He is our Lord, our God, and our King. This I know of myself independent of any other person.

I am one of his witnesses, and in a coming day I shall feel the nail marks in his hands and in his feet and shall wet his feet with my tears.

But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God's Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way.

God grant that all of us may walk in the light as God our Father is in the light so that, according to the promises, the blood of Jesus Christ his Son will cleanse us from all sin.

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, amen.

[Gwyndara]

Christ is the center of our home ~
a guest at every meal ~
a lilent listener to every conversation.

Unknown

[Gwyndara]

Have You Been Saved?

I have been asked this so many times in my life, and Elder Oaks answers it the BEST.

Elder Dallin H. Oaks
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles


As Latter-day Saints use the words saved and salvation, there are at least six different meanings.



What do we say when someone asks us, "Have you been saved?" This question, so common in the conversation of some Christians, can be puzzling to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because it is not our usual way of speaking. We tend to speak of "saved" or "salvation" as a future event rather than something that has already been realized.

Good Christian people sometimes attach different meanings to some key gospel terms like saved or salvation. If we answer according to what our questioner probably means in asking if we have been "saved," our answer must be "yes." If we answer according to the various meanings we attach to the terms saved or salvation, our answer will be either "yes" or "yes, but with conditions."

I.

As I understand what is meant by the good Christians who speak in these terms, we are "saved" when we sincerely declare or confess that we have accepted Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior. This meaning relies on words the Apostle Paul taught the Christians of his day:

"If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (Rom. 10:9*10).

To Latter-day Saints, the words saved and salvation in this teaching signify a present covenant relationship with Jesus Christ in which we are assured salvation from the consequences of sin if we are obedient. Every sincere Latter-day Saint is "saved" according to this meaning. We have been converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, we have experienced repentance and baptism, and we are renewing our covenants of baptism by partaking of the sacrament.

II.

As Latter-day Saints use the words saved and salvation, there are at least six different meanings. According to some of these, our salvation is assured--we are already saved. In others, salvation must be spoken of as a future event (e.g., 1 Cor. 5:5) or as conditioned upon a future event (e.g., Mark 13:13). But in all of these meanings, or kinds of salvation, salvation is in and through Jesus Christ.

First, all mortals have been saved from the permanence of death through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22).

As to salvation from sin and the consequences of sin, our answer to the question of whether or not we have been saved is "yes, but with conditions." Our third article of faith declares our belief:

"We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel" (A of F 1:3).

Many Bible verses declare that Jesus came to take away the sins of the world (e.g., John 1:29; Matt. 26:28 ). The New Testament frequently refers to the grace of God and to salvation by grace (e.g., John 1:17; Acts 15:11; Eph. 2:8 ). But it also has many specific commandments on personal behavior, and many references to the importance of works (e.g., Matt. 5:16; Eph. 2:10; James 2:14*17). In addition, the Savior taught that we must endure to the end in order to be saved (see Matt. 10:22; Mark 13:13).

Relying upon the totality of Bible teachings and upon clarifications received through modern revelation, we testify that being cleansed from sin through Christ's Atonement is conditioned upon the individual sinner's faith, which must be manifested by obedience to the Lord's command to repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost (see Acts 2:37* 38 ). "Verily, verily, I say unto thee," Jesus taught, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5; see also Mark 16:16; Acts 2:37* 38 ). Believers who have had this required rebirth at the hands of those having authority have already been saved from sin conditionally, but they will not be saved finally until they have completed their mortal probation with the required continuing repentance, faithfulness, service, and enduring to the end.

Some Christians accuse Latter-day Saints who give this answer of denying the grace of God through claiming they can earn their own salvation. We answer this accusation with the words of two Book of Mormon prophets. Nephi taught, "For we labor diligently . . . to persuade our children . . . to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" (2 Ne. 25:23). And what is "all we can do"? It surely includes repentance (see Alma 24:11) and baptism, keeping the commandments, and enduring to the end. Moroni pleaded, "Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ" (Moro. 10:32).

We are not saved in our sins, as by being unconditionally saved through confessing Christ and then, inevitably, committing sins in our remaining lives (see Alma 11:36 *37). We are saved from our sins (see Hel. 5:10) by a weekly renewal of our repentance and cleansing through the grace of God and His blessed plan of salvation (see 3 Ne. 9:20*22).

The question of whether a person has been saved is sometimes phrased in terms of whether that person has been "born again." Being "born again" is a familiar reference in the Bible and the Book of Mormon. As noted earlier, Jesus taught that except a man was "born again" (John 3:3), of water and of the Spirit, he could not enter into the kingdom of God (see John 3:5). The Book of Mormon has many teachings about the necessity of being "born again" or "born of God" (Mosiah 27:25; see vv. 24*26; Alma 36:24, 26; Moses 6:59). As we understand these scriptures, our answer to whether we have been born again is clearly "yes." We were born again when we entered into a covenant relationship with our Savior by being born of water and of the Spirit and by taking upon us the name of Jesus Christ. We can renew that rebirth each Sabbath when we partake of the sacrament.

Latter-day Saints affirm that those who have been born again in this way are spiritually begotten sons and daughters of Jesus Christ (see Mosiah 5:7; 15:9*13; 27:25). Nevertheless, in order to realize the intended blessings of this born-again status, we must still keep our covenants and endure to the end. In the meantime, through the grace of God, we have been born again as new creatures with new spiritual parentage and the prospects of a glorious inheritance.

A fourth meaning of being saved is to be saved from the darkness of ignorance of God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, and of the purpose of life, and of the destiny of men and women. The gospel made known to us by the teachings of Jesus Christ has given us this salvation. "I am the light of the world," Jesus taught; "he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life" (John 8:12; also see John 12:46).

For Latter-day Saints, being "saved" can also mean being saved or delivered from the second death (meaning the final spiritual death) by assurance of a kingdom of glory in the world to come (see 1 Cor. 15:40* 42). Just as the Resurrection is universal, we affirm that every person who ever lived upon the face of the earth--except for a very few--is assured of salvation in this sense. As we read in modern revelation:

"And this is the gospel, the glad tidings . . .

"That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

"That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;

"Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him" (D&C 76:40 *43; emphasis added).

The prophet Brigham Young taught that doctrine when he declared that "every person who does not sin away the day of grace, and become an angel to the Devil, will be brought forth to inherit a kingdom of glory" (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young [1997], 288 ). This meaning of saved ennobles the whole human race through the grace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. In this sense of the word, all should answer: "Yes, I have been saved. Glory to God for the gospel and gift and grace of His Son!"

Finally, in another usage familiar and unique to Latter-day Saints, the words saved and salvation are also used to denote exaltation or eternal life (see Abr. 2:11). This is sometimes referred to as the "fulness of salvation" (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, 4 vols. [1979*81], 1:242). This salvation requires more than repentance and baptism by appropriate priesthood authority. It also requires the making of sacred covenants, including eternal marriage, in the temples of God, and faithfulness to those covenants by enduring to the end. If we use the word salvation to mean "exaltation," it is premature for any of us to say that we have been "saved" in mortality. That glorious status can only follow the final judgment of Him who is the Great Judge of the living and the dead.

I have suggested that the short answer to the question of whether a faithful member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been saved or born again must be a fervent "yes." Our covenant relationship with our Savior puts us in that "saved" or "born again" condition meant by those who ask this question. Some modern prophets have also used "salvation" or "saved" in that same present sense. President Brigham Young declared:

"It is present salvation and the present influence of the Holy Ghost that we need every day to keep us on saving ground. . . .

"I want present salvation. . . . Life is for us, and it is for us to receive it today, and not wait for the Millennium. Let us take a course to be saved today" (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe [1954], 15*16). President David O. McKay spoke of the revealed gospel of Jesus Christ in that same present sense of "salvation here--here and now" (Gospel Ideals [1953], 6).

III.

I will conclude by discussing another important question members and leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are asked by others: "Why do you send missionaries to preach to other Christians?" Sometimes this is asked with curiosity and sometimes with resentment.

My most memorable experience with that question occurred some years ago in what we then called the Eastern Bloc. After many years of Communist hostility to religion, these countries were suddenly and miraculously given a measure of religious freedom. When that door opened, many Christian faiths sent missionaries. As part of our preparation to do so, the First Presidency sent members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to meet with government and church leaders in these countries. Our assignment was to introduce ourselves and to explain what our missionaries would be doing.

Elder Russell M. Nelson and I called on the leader of the Orthodox Church in one of these countries. Here was a man who had helped keep the light of Christianity burning through the dark decades of Communist repression. I noted in my journal that he was a warm and gracious man who impressed me as a servant of the Lord. I mention this so that you will not think there was any spirit of arrogance or contention in our conversation of nearly an hour. Our visit was pleasant and cordial, filled with the goodwill that should always characterize conversations between men and women who love the Lord and seek to serve Him, each according to his or her own understanding.

Our host told us about the activities of his church during the period of Communist repression. He described the various difficulties his church and its work were experiencing as they emerged from that period and sought to regain their former position in the life of the country and the hearts of the people. We introduced ourselves and our fundamental beliefs. We explained that we would soon be sending missionaries into his country and told him how they would perform their labors.

He asked, "Will your missionaries preach only to unbelievers, or will they also try to preach to believers?" We replied that our message was for everyone, believers as well as unbelievers. We gave two reasons for this answer--one a matter of principle and the other a matter of practicality. We told him that we preached to believers as well as unbelievers because our message, the restored gospel, makes an important addition to the knowledge, happiness, and peace of all mankind. As a matter of practicality, we preach to believers as well as unbelievers because we cannot tell the difference. I remember asking this distinguished leader, "When you stand before a congregation and look into the faces of the people, can you tell the difference between those who are real believers and those who are not?" He smiled wryly, and I sensed an admission that he had understood the point.

Through missionaries and members, the message of the restored gospel is going to all the world. To non-Christians, we witness of Christ and share the truths and ordinances of His restored gospel. To Christians we do the same. Even if a Christian has been "saved" in the familiar single sense discussed earlier, we teach that there remains more to be learned and more to be experienced. As President Hinckley recently said, "[We are] not argumentative. We do not debate. We, in effect, simply say to others, 'Bring all the good that you have and let us see if we can add to it'" ("The BYU Experience," BYU devotional address, 4 Nov. 1997).

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints offers all of the children of God the opportunity to learn the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ as restored in these latter days. We offer everyone the privilege of receiving all of the ordinances of salvation and exaltation.

We invite all to hear this message, and we invite all who receive the confirming witness of the Spirit to heed it. These things are true, I testify in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

[Darakash]

Wow! Thank you so much for posting all this info! I have had very little exposure to Mormon/LDS faith, and this is a HUGE wealth of info....I must confess I have not read every word yet, but have scanned some and read large portions.

I am curious, do you personally also practice magic or something fo the sort ( I saw the "embracing the mysteries" siggie and it made me wonder.

By the way, the "Story of our origins" is simply fascinating! I have never heard such a perspective from an Abrahamic faith.

[Gwyndara]

Wow! Thank you so much for posting all this info! I have had very little exposure to Mormon/LDS faith, and this is a HUGE wealth of info....I must confess I have not read every word yet, but have scanned some and read large portions.

I am curious, do you personally also practice magic or something fo the sort ( I saw the "embracing the mysteries" siggie and it made me wonder.

By the way, the "Story of our origins" is simply fascinating! I have never heard such a perspective from an Abrahamic faith.

I'm glad you are enjoying it.
Not all Christians are closed minded etc.

Oh and as "practicing magic" Our faith doesn't do it in the same way that others do. We have it in the "temple" but it's called the "priesthood" or the "Power of God".
I have learned so much since being on MW that I can recognize different things in my religion that would fall under the terms "magic" etc.

[Gwyndara]

I wanted to update my thread, but it will have to wait. Unfortunately I ran out of time to write everything I wanted to write.
But I'll fix it later.

[-Ember]

We have it in the "temple" but it's called the "priesthood" or the "Power of God".

Which, correct me if I'm wrong, but if your gender tag is correct it means you don't practice it, preisthood powers being male only?

[Amber Wynd]

Which, correct me if I'm wrong, but if your gender tag is correct it means you don't practice it, preisthood powers being male only?
This is correct. Only the males can hold the priesthood. Which means that only men and boys are allowed to bless the sacrament, baptise and confirm new members, perform baptisms for the dead and other temple ceremonies, and only men can rise to the highest offices within the church.


Quote:
Oh and as "practicing magic" Our faith doesn't do it in the same way that others do. We have it in the "temple" but it's called the "priesthood" or the "Power of God".
I have learned so much since being on MW that I can recognize different things in my religion that would fall under the terms "magic" etc.
I think you're right about this. There's a lot in the temple ceremonies, as well as in other Mormon practices, that would fall under the terms of "magic" and "the occult". But ummm......it's been my experience that it's not always a good idea to say so right out loud. In fact, I was excommunicated for saying this exact thing in a talk I gave a few years ago. I had already been asking to have my name removed from the records, so it was okay. But it looks like you love being a member, so I hope you're careful not to say this anywhere but here. A lot of people aren't as open minded as you, and if your meaning is misunderstood you could find yourself in trouble with the brethren.

[Vincent Verthaine]

I have a question.
Does the LDS still engage in the practice of baptising the dead by proxy?

I remember a news article about it a year or two ago in which living stand-ins where used to baptise the dead in their name.
If my memory serves me correctly,the jewish community went in an uproar when it was discovered that they were using lists of jews that died in Auschwitz.http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/ldsagree.html

And was still doing as late as 2004.
9 years after the agreement not to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead

I have another question.
Prior to 1978,why weren't black mormons allowed to be priests?
What was the prevalent believe amongst white mormons prior to LDS President Spencer W. Kimball's revelation in 1978.

[-Ember]

I have a question.
Does the LDS still engage in the practice of baptising the dead by proxy?

Yes they do.


I have another question.
Prior to 1978,why weren't black mormons allowed to be priests?
What was the prevalent believe amongst white mormons prior to LDS President Spencer W. Kimball's revelation in 1978.

I know the reason I've always heard when I ask missionaries was because neither white or black culture was ready for it before then, and God, in his wisdom, waited.... the more cynical non-LDS point out that missionary efforts in predomenantly "black" areas of the world required it if they wanted there to be any local priests.

Anyway, my Grandfather mourned. He liked missionary baiting. And one of his favorites until then was to pretend to be really enthused about the church and how it was one he could really get involved in and then drop that he was some percentage black and watch their faces turn colors as they struggled to backpedal.

[Amber Wynd]

Yes they do.



I know the reason I've always heard when I ask missionaries was because neither white or black culture was ready for it before then, and God, in his wisdom, waited.... the more cynical non-LDS point out that missionary efforts in predomenantly "black" areas of the world required it if they wanted there to be any local priests.

Anyway, my Grandfather mourned. He liked missionary baiting. And one of his favorites until then was to pretend to be really enthused about the church and how it was one he could really get involved in and then drop that he was some percentage black and watch their faces turn colors as they struggled to backpedal.
Your grandfather sounds pretty funny. My own grandpa would have gotten a charge out of hanging out with him. I remember when the church changed it's policy regarding blacks and the priesthood, and it's not quite the way you've heard it from the missionaries. To be fair, I'm sure it's what they're being told and they believe what they're telling you. The more cynical LDS members are likely quite correct, and there was also quite an outcry at that time by civil rights groups. I believe that played a large part the decision.

Here's what Bruce R.McConkie - one of the general authorities of the church in the 60's had to say at that time regarding this issue. It's what I always heard growing up. I found it at the link on the bottom of this post.

"Though he was a rebel and an associate of Lucifer in pre-existence, ...Cain managed to attain the privilege of mortal birth.... [H]e came out in open rebellion, fought God, worshiped Lucifer, and slew Abel.... As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the negroes, and those spirits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage."
LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 108-109, 1966 edition.

http://ondoctrine.com/1mormo22.htm

P.S. Brigham Young also had a lot to say on the subject of blacks and the priesthood, but his remarks are extremely offensive and I hesitate to post them here. If anyone checks out the link I provided you can read them there.

[Gwyndara]

Thank you Amber for answering thoes questions.

I would like to adress the question about women and not holding the priesthood.
Women who go to the temple share in the priesthood with thier husbands.
I know that God does not discriminate against the women.
Men Need it to recive God Hood. Women share in it. But do not hold the same responsibilities as the men do. A woman who does not have the oportunity to go to the temple and recive this blessing can still become a Goddess.

Women hold important callings such as being primary teachers to teach the children. They are leaders for the Youth.
Also they have thier own organization called relief Society. Where we help oneanother.

A woman who turley understands that she is a daughter of a divine God, doesn't need to "hold" the priesthood to feel whole or accepted.

For so many years people have belived that women are discriminated within the church and thats just not ture.

[Vincent Verthaine]

Thank you Amber for answering thoes questions.

I would like to adress the question about women and not holding the priesthood.
Women who go to the temple share in the priesthood with thier husbands.
I know that God does not discriminate against the women.
Men Need it to recive God Hood. Women share in it. But do not hold the same responsibilities as the men do. A woman who does not have the oportunity to go to the temple and recive this blessing can still become a Goddess.

Women hold important callings such as being primary teachers to teach the children. They are leaders for the Youth.
Also they have thier own organization called relief Society. Where we help oneanother.

A woman who turley understands that she is a daughter of a divine God, doesn't need to "hold" the priesthood to feel whole or accepted.

For so many years people have belived that women are discriminated within the church and thats just not ture.

Does the LDS still engage actively in the practice of baptism of the dead by proxy?
Does the congregation you belong to engage in this practice?
If so ,have you ever been a "proxy"?
What are your personal beliefs on it?

[Happy Shrew]

Women who go to the temple share in the priesthood with thier husbands.
I know that God does not discriminate against the women.
Men Need it to recive God Hood. Women share in it.

What do lesbians do? Do they still have to marry a man to receive these benefits?

[Amber Wynd]

Thank you Amber for answering thoes questions.

I would like to adress the question about women and not holding the priesthood.
Women who go to the temple share in the priesthood with thier husbands.
I know that God does not discriminate against the women.
Men Need it to recive God Hood. Women share in it. But do not hold the same responsibilities as the men do. A woman who does not have the oportunity to go to the temple and recive this blessing can still become a Goddess.

Women hold important callings such as being primary teachers to teach the children. They are leaders for the Youth.
Also they have thier own organization called relief Society. Where we help oneanother.

A woman who turley understands that she is a daughter of a divine God, doesn't need to "hold" the priesthood to feel whole or accepted.

For so many years people have belived that women are discriminated within the church and thats just not ture.
You're welcome. I'd like to say that while it's true that Mormon women do hold positions within the church - promarily those dealing with the children and the women's organization - the sphere of power and influence for women has been shrinking steadily. You're right, the Relief Society is a wonderful organization where women help each other and care for one another. And you're also correct when you say that women do not hold the same responsiblities as men do. But did you know that they used to?

Mormon women exercised considerable religious authority in the LDS Church for 100 years and maintained some autonomy for 140 years. During the first 20 years of Mormonism, from 1830 to 1850, women received authority for blessings, healing and prophecy; priesthood keys, powers and rituals; and missionary calls. Eliza R. Snow, the first President of the Relief Society, often gave blessings employing the laying on of hands and annointing with the holy oil. I believe it was Eliza who blessed her ox when it fell during the trek across the plains to Utah. Eliza, who was given the title of "prophetess" and president over all women and girls in the church, made it clear that the women's Relief Society, which she headed, was "designed to be a self-governing organization. "If difficulties arise," she wrote, ". . . the matter should be referred to (the) president and her counselors."



What do lesbians do? Do they still have to marry a man to receive these benefits?
Every woman has to marry a man to receive these benefits. Those who do not marry in the temple during this lifetime will be given in marriage in the next world so that they can share in the priesthood and become a goddess.

In any case, Mormonisn teaches that same sex attraction is a chosen lifestyle. That all homosexual and lesbian activity is immoral and sinful, irrespective of the nature of the participants' relationship. And that it can be "cured" through reparative therapy, repentance, and prayer. People who are attracted to their own genders are not excommunicated as long as they remain celibate.

Here's an exerpt from the October 1994 issue of the Ensign (The church magazine). The person writing was Dallin Oaks a member of the Council of the Twelve at that time.

7. Because Satan desires that "all men might be miserable like unto himself"(2 Ne. 2:27), his most strenuous efforts are directed at encouraging those choices and actions that will thwart God's plan for his children. He seeks to undermine the principle of individual accountability, to persuade us to misuse our sacred powers of procreation, to discourage marriage and childbearing by the worthy men and women, and to confuse what is meant to be male or female.

9. The First Presidency has declared that "there is a distinction between [1] immoral thoughts and feelings and [2] participating in either immoral heterosexual or any homosexual behavior."{4} Although immoral thoughts are less serious than immoral behavior, such thoughts also need to be resisted and repented of because we know that "our thoughts will also condemn us" (Alma 12:14). Immoral thoughts (and the less serious feelings that lead to them) can bring about behavior that is sinful.

[Happy Shrew]

Could you also explain the garments to me? What little I've heard about them baffles me.

[Amber Wynd]

Could you also explain the garments to me? What little I've heard about them baffles me.
Sure. The garments are the only piece of temple clothing that are also worn outside of the temple. They're basically a one-piece undergarment that covers the wearer from the shoulders to the knee. One reason for wearing them is that they serve as a standard for modesty. Temple members take their garments off for swimming, but usually wear them during all other daily activities. Since church members are instructed not to expose their garments to public view, it's impossible to wear them and dress immodestly.

Garments also serve as a reminder of the covenants and promises made in the temple. There are sacred markings on certain areas of each garment and these have symbolic meaning to the wearer. It's kind of like when Catholics wear crosses or Wiccans wear pentacles. Except that this is a private reminder because the garments aren't seen by anyone except the wearer and their immediate family. In addition, they are believed to protect those who wear them from physical injury. I grew up hearing a lot of stories about people who were saved because they had their temple garments on.

[Gwyndara]

Does the LDS still engage actively in the practice of baptism of the dead by proxy?
Does the congregation you belong to engage in this practice?
If so ,have you ever been a "proxy"?
What are your personal beliefs on it?


Yes we do still engage actively in the practice of baptism of the dead by proxy.
I have been a proxy for such baptisms.
My grandmother has done a lot of research on our family history and have found members of our own family who died before they were given the chance to be members of the church. She gave me several female names which I took to the temple and were baptized for.
It gave me feelings of peace.

[Gwyndara]

You're welcome. I'd like to say that while it's true that Mormon women do hold positions within the church - promarily those dealing with the children and the women's organization - the sphere of power and influence for women has been shrinking steadily. You're right, the Relief Society is a wonderful organization where women help each other and care for one another. And you're also correct when you say that women do not hold the same responsiblities as men do. But did you know that they used to?

Mormon women exercised considerable religious authority in the LDS Church for 100 years and maintained some autonomy for 140 years. During the first 20 years of Mormonism, from 1830 to 1850, women received authority for blessings, healing and prophecy; priesthood keys, powers and rituals; and missionary calls. Eliza R. Snow, the first President of the Relief Society, often gave blessings employing the laying on of hands and annointing with the holy oil. I believe it was Eliza who blessed her ox when it fell during the trek across the plains to Utah. Eliza, who was given the title of "prophetess" and president over all women and girls in the church, made it clear that the women's Relief Society, which she headed, was "designed to be a self-governing organization. "If difficulties arise," she wrote, ". . . the matter should be referred to (the) president and her counselors."

Sweet heart we still do. It's just not publicly dispalyed and mostly takes part in the temple. We just don't discuss it.
The only reason I'm responding to this is so that people don't think that women just gave up thier rights or had them taken away. It's just not so.
It's a sacred thing, and as you know with most LDS we don't discuss thoes types of things outside the temple walls.

[Happy Shrew]

Sure. The garments are the only piece of temple clothing that are also worn outside of the temple. They're basically a one-piece undergarment that covers the wearer from the shoulders to the knee. One reason for wearing them is that they serve as a standard for modesty. Temple members take their garments off for swimming, but usually wear them during all other daily activities. Since church members are instructed not to expose their garments to public view, it's impossible to wear them and dress immodestly.

Garments also serve as a reminder of the covenants and promises made in the temple. There are sacred markings on certain areas of each garment and these have symbolic meaning to the wearer. It's kind of like when Catholics wear crosses or Wiccans wear pentacles. Except that this is a private reminder because the garments aren't seen by anyone except the wearer and their immediate family. In addition, they are believed to protect those who wear them from physical injury. I grew up hearing a lot of stories about people who were saved because they had their temple garments on.

Aaaah. *cue the lightbulbs* That makes a LOT more sense than any other explanation I've heard. Granted, they were from non-Mormons saying "Dude, they have special UNDERWEAR" but still. Thanks!

I once had a roommate who was baptised into LDS, but I don't think she wore anything like that. She wasn't very into modest dressing (or not drinking coffee, or not being promiscuous...) She was the lousiest Mormon in the history of the faith, if you ask me.

[Amber Wynd]

Sweet heart we still do. It's just not publicly dispalyed and mostly takes part in the temple. We just don't discuss it.
The only reason I'm responding to this is so that people don't think that women just gave up thier rights or had them taken away. It's just not so.
It's a sacred thing, and as you know with most LDS we don't discuss thoes types of things outside the temple walls.

I've been to the temple, too, so I know exactly what happens there. I don't talk about it because I promised not to. However, my opinion on this is different than yours, and I do feel that Mormon women have fewer rights than the men do. I wasn't happy and fulfilled as a Mormon woman, but it sounds like you are and that's what matters, isn't it?


Aaaah. *cue the lightbulbs* That makes a LOT more sense than any other explanation I've heard. Granted, they were from non-Mormons saying "Dude, they have special UNDERWEAR" but still. Thanks!

I once had a roommate who was baptised into LDS, but I don't think she wore anything like that. She wasn't very into modest dressing (or not drinking coffee, or not being promiscuous...) She was the lousiest Mormon in the history of the faith, if you ask me.
My friend refers to them "The Sacred Skivvies." Only Mormons who have been to the temple and participated in certain ceremonies get to wear temple garments. Kids and members who haven't been yet, don't wear them. That's probably one reason your roommate didn't have any.

[Happy Shrew]

Ah, okay.

She's no longer involved now, so I guess I'll never feel tempted to ask annoying questions about it. Not sure if she left of her own will or got booted (being preggers and all).

I know some of the strangest people.

[-Ember]

Interesting... while that may be true for some level of practice, I have to say that here (in the heart of Zion) I often see it as something held over the heads of women as a lack.......

[Happy Shrew]

The stories I hear from a former Provo resident suggest the same inequality. His mother was like a folk hero to the women - they often asked her how she found the ability to stand as an equal with her husband in family affairs.

[Gwyndara]

It's the same in any organization or religion.
Some have wonderful expirinces and belive whole hartedly, while others feel discriminated against. It just depends on the individual, and in the case of Being "mormon" it depends on the womans level of understanding and spirituality.

This thread is meant to inform. Not to be debated.
Thier is a forum for debate and discussion, this is not it.
When I have more sleep I'll fraze this better.

[Amber Wynd]

It's the same in any organization or religion.
Some have wonderful expirinces and belive whole hartedly, while others feel discriminated against. It just depends on the individual, and in the case of Being "mormon" it depends on the womans level of understanding and spirituality.
Exactly. This is what I was trying to say when I stated that I wasn't happy as a Mormon, while you obviously are very happy with this path. It is indeed the same in any religion. It all depends on one's level of understanding and spirituality. What matters is that each of us find a path we're comfortable with and in which we can grow to our full potential as a human being.