Spanking children

[Aowyn]

wondering about the concensus although I am pretty sure I can guess it.

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

I think that you should 'spank' (heh heh that means a naughty bedroom activity in Australia, we say smack when referring to kids) your kids if they deserve it. I learnt a lot of lessons via the wooden spoon.

[Arinya]

Depends on what the kid did and the parent.
I remember when my Dad spanked me it was for very good reasons and I always learned my lessons, I had few spankings because of it too.
I think spanking is good in moderation, you can't do it for every little thing obviously and often there are better punishments, like taking away video games, tv, etc.

[Temptation]

Never.

Physical punishment of any kind is not acceptable. There are more effective ways to deal with a misbehaving child. We don't own our children, they are not ours to do with as we please. We have no right to ever harm them in any way.

[Faery-Wings]

I voted in some instances. To me a spank/smack is a swat on the butt. There are times my kids have lost control and need to be reminded who is in charge. It doesnt happen often but it signals to them that I mean business.

[Ceres]

I think I will need a pillow, this fence is not very comfortable.

[Élistariel]

I voted yes, in some instances. I too, think of a spank/smack as a swat on the butt. Making more noise than it does pain. I got spanked as a kid. I'm fine with it as long as it's ONE swat on the butt, and for a reason. There gets to be an age, in elementary school where spanking just become unacceptable. I got my share of handprints as a child, I have nothing against it. My father, on the other hand had a temper. He didn't spank me, he beat the #$% out of me. If you know you already have a temper, don't spank at all.

[AnuCailleach]

I voted "yes, in some instances". I believe a "proper" spanking is one of many effective tools we parents have at our disposal to teach our children. In my home it is used for outright defiance & dangerous situations. By proper I mean Not used as a last resort and then done in anger or out of frustration. Children under 5 do not really grasp the removal of privileges, discussions, etc. Once they reach an age of reason then I believe spankings should stop.

[Nellie]

Never.

Physical punishment of any kind is not acceptable. There are more effective ways to deal with a misbehaving child. We don't own our children, they are not ours to do with as we please. We have no right to ever harm them in any way.

I totally agree with this..... in theory. Unfortunately I can't in practice. My children are so strong willed (take after me I guess) that they just don't listen. Nothing bothers them....I remove toys, the TV (they rarely play on the PC) ground them...my son just laughs & the best bit....hes only 4!!!! So if anybody has any ideas how I can stop him without smacking I'd love to hear. BTW I've read most books (could write my own) done behaviour groups, seens child psychologists....ignore the bad behaviour & praise the good....yer yer done it all....sticker charts, pocket money for good behaviour...right now they are both (I have a 6 year old daughter who is nearly as bad) confined to their bedrooms as I just don't wanna know any more. Sorry to go on, but as you can probally tell, am kinda @ my wits end!!!

[HorseCrow]

I am completely against spanking/smacking children. I am happy to live in a country where it is forbidden by law. I am disgusted when I see an adult smack a child, it goes against everything I believe in and makes me sick to my stomach. I do not believe that there is any justification for it.

[BrigidMoon]

I believe it's okay in some circumstances, however, I do not spank my child due to the history of abuse.

[RavensEye]

I voted in some instances. To me a spank/smack is a swat on the butt. There are times my kids have lost control and need to be reminded who is in charge. It doesnt happen often but it signals to them that I mean business. I agree and I do seldom spank my kids becuase I use to get spanked 50 whacks at a time as a teenager, with my kids they get no more then 3 at the most.

[Brónach Druid]

I believe that it is okay in some circumstances, but it also depends on what your definition of a spanking is. I think it is okay to give a young child a light swat on the back of the hand or bottom in certain situations. For example, when my one child was about a year and 1/2, my parents had a wood stove in their home, no matter how many times she had be told no, removed from the situation and other methods had been tried she was constantly trying to get around the screen and touch it. The only method that discouraged her was a light swat on the back of her hand, after a few attempts with that consequence she stopped trying to get to the stove. I don't believe in ever hitting a child with an object, in turning a child over you knee, repeatedly hitting them or in using that form of discipline for older children.

[Rhianna813]

I am against spanking/smacking children. I was spanked when I was young and it only caused me to feel fear, resentment, and distrust for my Dad. I feel we should show the same level of respect to children that we show adults. If an adult was having a good time, being hyper, and maybe broke a lamp..... you would talk to them and express your dissapointment. You would arrange for them to take responsibility for their action. You would not reach over and smack them on the hand, face, or butt.

What does doing this to a child teach them? Obedience out of fear instead of respect. Also spanking as a punishment for hitting another child definitely makes no sense. I do think there are better discipline techniques available to us these days and we should take advantage of them.

Rhianna

[fahawk]

We don't spank- and in only rare incidents when the kids have pushed and pushed their limits, have applied a pat on the bottom- saying enough- I think those times when they just will not listen..a small pat may be needed.. ( even animals will give their young a gentle cuff when the young push too far)

On a daily basis- no..I dont think any adult would want to be spanked/ hit all the time for doing something "wrong".. if we are hitting them everyday, what message are we really sending..that we cant control our behavior.. we tell them not to hit..but we as adults can?

but I do believe kids need to have guidelines/ and know there are limits..that someone is in charge. I dont think wishy-washy discipline helps children at all..
and that means being willing to be firm when it is needed. Being there to remind our child.

My kids know there are things that are acceptable and those that are not.
Kids learn alot from watching and listening/ learn behaviors.. I think starting right out with what is o.k. in a family and what isnt..can help in the long run..

[Lunacie]

I am against spanking/smacking children. I was spanked when I was young and it only caused me to feel fear, resentment, and distrust for my Dad. I feel we should show the same level of respect to children that we show adults. If an adult was having a good time, being hyper, and maybe broke a lamp..... you would talk to them and express your dissapointment. You would arrange for them to take responsibility for their action. You would not reach over and smack them on the hand, face, or butt.

What does doing this to a child teach them? Obedience out of fear instead of respect. Also spanking as a punishment for hitting another child definitely makes no sense. I do think there are better discipline techniques available to us these days and we should take advantage of them.

Rhianna
I think most of the posters so far have agreed that when the child is capable of understanding that talking about the reasons to mind the rules and the consequences for breaking the rules is the best thing. But for small children who don't understand clearly yet, or for older children who refuse to listen or to mind, sometimes a swift swat is very helpful.

[misschief]

as a mom of three boys, and a step mom of a boy and a girl... i can tell you that it only makes it worse to hit them in any way. if what you're going for is them throwing a fit, then cool, go ahead and hit them, because that's what will happen. i don't see any need to make spanking illegal, because people SHOULD have enough freakin sense to not hurt their children, i know some don't... but the govt. needs to take a different approach. the only time i think it's ok to hit, is, for example... to teach a baby not to stick his fingers in the electrical outlet, one might smack his hand, but not hard enough to cause pain, only enough for him to understand that the answer to if he can touch that is no. but one should accompany that with something the child can understand to tell him it will hurt him. i don't think that children old enough to comprehend should be hit in any way, under any circumstances. i don't care how hard they are to handle, or how often they misbehave... it doesn't do any good. i've got enough of them to know.. lol.
if it's so bad that you've lost control, the answer is usually a combination of medical care (counseling, dr. checkups, etc.), and changes at home. many parents CAUSE their children's behavior problems without realizing it.

(notice i didn't say ALL behavior problems are caused by parents... that should cut the flaming off at the knees)

[Lunacie]

LadyLeo, I’m not flaming, only asking for clarification. It sounds like you’re saying that parents only spank when they’ve lost control of the situation, or they only spank out of anger. Is that what you meant to say?



Different things work with different children, and even with the same child different things work better at some times than at others. If you’ve only spanked your children out of anger then it probably didn’t work very well. But if it’s done calmly as a way of letting the child know that the parent is disappointed and absolutely will not allow the child to repeat that action again, it can and does work (for some children).

[soilsigh aingeal]

Under some circumstances. If you can not emotionally deal with doing so (for example, you are prone to go off) you should refrain from doing it.

Like others, a "spanking" to me is a swap on the butt anything more than that is something else in my eyes. And, yes, as a last resort, yes, I do it.

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

In some instances, I do find that it is acceptable. We have given my son's hand or bottom a swat at times when he is being willfully disobedient or endangering himself in order to get his attention. The most he has ever gotten was 3 quck swats on the bottom and it usually (though not always) stops the behavior. The occassional swat is not going to cause fear or resentment, but it will if spanking is done in excess. And I don't believe that anything more than a hand should be used. It goes to far when objects such as belts or fly swatters are involved.

[WickedBttrfly]

I got spanked a lot as I kid. And I don't mean one smack on the butt, I mean atleast 5 hard whacks and sometimes more with a belt, depending on what I did. I know I deserved most of them. I was too smart for my own good and talked back and did as I pleased, and I was punished for it. But sometimes I got smacked in the face. And THAT I never deserved. I barely remember the spankings and I am not traumatized or anything by them. So if your kid is really unruly, I dont see a problem with a smack on the butt to bring them to their senses. But if you have a temper, don't. Because if you can't control your anger you have no right letting it loose on your kid. So I guess it just depends on the situation and if it's worked in the past.

[Pilot]

In some instances yes. I learned my lessons both ways-none physical and physical

[Catiana]

In certain circumstances I would say yes. I spanked my kids when they were little when it was warranted. My definition of "spank" is one swat with the hand (never an object) on the behind, now my kids are teenagers 16 and 17, and I have no behavior problems with them.

[Ceres]

I used to be very against spanking. My daughter was very strong willed, but with active listening, I was able to deal with discipline situations without needing to resort to any "punishments" except allowing her to experience natural consequences. She was and is a very determined child, but she seems to have an inner barometer of rightness, once she sees the whole situation.
Then my middle child came. He is not as easy child to understand or deal with at all. I have resorted to swatting his butt a few times (less than ten in his whole 8 yrs) when things went so far I didnt feel there was any other way to make him understand. I dont like doing it, I have never done it with my other two children, but for him I feel it was the only way. This has shown me that there is no one size fits all parenting style.
All children need a loving home in which they can grow to their potential and also learn to be a productive part of society. This is no easy task for parents because the numbers of ways to do this is as varied as there are children. Parenting is not a science to which one method can be applied to any child to get a certain result; parenting is an art where parents need to use the maturity and intelligence to bring up each child.
Thats why I am on the fence - I cant even say yes in some situations because for some children, its always wrong.

[Sequoia]

[color=black][font=Tahoma]Different things work with different children, and even with the same child different things work better at some times than at others. If you’ve only spanked your children out of anger then it probably didn’t work very well. But if it’s done calmly as a way of letting the child know that the parent is disappointed and absolutely will not allow the child to repeat that action again, it can and does work (for some children).

I agree with that, and this:

In some instances, I do find that it is acceptable. We have given my son's hand or bottom a swat at times when he is being willfully disobedient or endangering himself in order to get his attention. (snip) The occassional swat is not going to cause fear or resentment, but it will if spanking is done in excess. And I don't believe that anything more than a hand should be used.

Basically, a swat or spanking is not wrong if it is done calmly. NEVER hit a child out of anger. That's just plain cruelty. Slapping a child's face is, in nearly every circomstance, inexusable.

There are other options, such as negative reinforcement (taking things away), but as has been mentioned, this does not always work, and does not work with every child. Sometimes the only way a willfully disobedient child will "get it" is with a swat. After you've tried everything, and you have the option between an irressolvable terror or a swat on the butt or smack on the hand, I really would hope you'd keep trying.

[blackroseivy]

I believe that the ones under a certain age CANNOT be reasoned with - children NEED limits. There are times when that little smack is ALL they will hear or listen to. I grew up with it & got it too much; I know to limit it. I have no child yet, but I am still hoping & planning on having 1 & have struggled with this idea. I know that there are times when children NEED to be stopped. It's awful sometimes, but wait until they are teens & still don't understand their limits... & what kind of adults will they be?

[Ceres]

I believe that the ones under a certain age CANNOT be reasoned with - children NEED limits. There are times when that little smack is ALL they will hear or listen to. I grew up with it & got it too much; I know to limit it. I have no child yet, but I am still hoping & planning on having 1 & have struggled with this idea. I know that there are times when children NEED to be stopped. It's awful sometimes, but wait until they are teens & still don't understand their limits... & what kind of adults will they be?

You are absolutely right. Children do need limits and small ones cant always be counted on to see reason. But most children WILL respond better to you getting down to their level, looking them right in the eye and telling them in no uncertain terms how it has to be than they respond to being swatted. Stopping kids from doing things they shouldnt can be done effectively without hitting them in most cases. To discipline means to teach, not neccessarily to punish.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Yes, at times it can be necessary with certain children at certain times. My brothers and I were spanked sometimes when we wouldn't go to bed, but we'd just go into each other's rooms and play. After you exhaust taking things away, time-outs, and yelling, sometimes it needs to be done. ^_^

Sometimes my mom got out the wooden spoon even. But really it was a big joke. ^_^ She was always too afraid to really hurt us that she never swatted us hard enough to get the message across. But as a whole, we were extremely well-behaved children anyway. At least when there were other people around. ^_^ (And when you say smack, I think smack across the face, and we never got that. We were never hit in anger, only calm discipline.)

My neighbor friend used to get the belt or switches...

Man, if nothing else works, just tell that kid to go find a switch... Then they're thinking about what they did that whole time they're looking for one. You don't even have to hit them but a flick, because the psychological impact of looking for that switch... That'll get the message across all on itself. ^_^

I tell you, if my kids were ever as bad as some of those kids on TV talk shows get, I'd send them to find a switch. ^_^

Lol. My lovely guru Khempo-la would tell us stories about life at the monastery as a kid. Their teacher would have this stick that he'd poke or strike the kids with if they misbehaved... Well, Khempo-la used to sneak in after lessons and steal that stick. And the teacher would find it gone and then go off and get another stick. About the fourth time after Khempo-la stole the stick, the teacher came in with this great knobbly stick with stubs all over it.... lol. He never took a stick again! ^_^

Ah, I can see the waves of red karma rolling in...

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Tzhebee]

I raise my children the same way I was taught to raise a dog. At very early ages you stickly disapline them. Strickly! From a young age it is engrained into their minds that if they do something wrong, the punishment will be harsh. Then when they are older, they remember that and don't take the risk.

Keep in mind that "harsh" and "strick" are relative terms based on age. Having your hand swatted when you are 2 is much more harsh than if it were to happen when you are 10.

I have swatted my children, I have spanked my children, I will continue to do so when it is warrented. I do not "hit" them to cause pain, but more to emphasize and draw attention to what they have done. Likewise, when my children were very young and went through their biting stage, they were flicked in the mouth. (same theory as rubbing a dogs nose in it's mess). Never enough to leave a mark or cause pain...just enough to emphasize.

Many people do not agree with me, so be it. But so far, my kids are very well manored, do not throw fits and (usually) don't need to be told more than once.

[Sequoia]

Man, if nothing else works, just tell that kid to go find a switch... Then they're thinking about what they did that whole time they're looking for one. You don't even have to hit them but a flick, because the psychological impact of looking for that switch... That'll get the message across all on itself. ^_^

The other part of telling a child to go find a switch, is that in general, the kid finds the thinnest, smallest one he can, thinking "That way it won't hurt as badly."

Wrong! :awilly:

:rotfl: Some kids simply won't listen to reason. They won't listen to words. They won't pay attention, no matter how much you "come down to their level" and try to explain it. At that point, the child is most likely being willfully disruptive, and I'm sorry, they need to be shown who is in charge.

Parents can talk, share, and reason with their children. But they still need to be parents. Giving birth doesn't make you a parent. Paying the bills and feeling 'em doesn't make you a parent. Trying to spare little Jimmy the evils of the world via ultimate pampering and bubble wrap isn't really being a parent.

You have to give your kids a loving structure, with known consequences, both good and bad. It's as simple as that. Some parents are lucky enough to have good-natured, kind, and patient children. Kids who will listen to simply talking, and would never dream of hurting a fly. But not all children are as altruistic as that, and eventually they do need some form of discipline other than "That's not nice, honey."

I'm a huge supporter of martial arts for children. A proper dojo will teach the kids self-discipline, self-esteem, and self-reliance. Not to mention that they'll be a whole lot safer. And one of the most IMPORANT things they teach is not to be a bully, to be fair, and to be patient!

[Pure Ahimsa]

You can't really vote properly without being a 'victim' of this. I think that no one should ever raise their hand to anyone else. The parent is usually too tired to calm them down.

[Ceres]

:rotfl: Some kids simply won't listen to reason. They won't listen to words. They won't pay attention, no matter how much you "come down to their level" and try to explain it. At that point, the child is most likely being willfully disruptive, and I'm sorry, they need to be shown who is in charge.

Ah, but you misinterpreted my comment about coming down to their level. I didnt say you explain it. I said you tell them in no uncertain terms how it has to be. There is a world of difference. The reason you come down to their level is because a lot of noise over their heads doesnt have the same impact as an adult bending to look at a child eye to eye and speaking seriously. They come to know when you do that, there is no alternative. It IS showing them who is in charge. My point is they dont usually need to be hit to understand that.



I'm a huge supporter of martial arts for children. A proper dojo will teach the kids self-discipline, self-esteem, and self-reliance. Not to mention that they'll be a whole lot safer. And one of the most IMPORANT things they teach is not to be a bully, to be fair, and to be patient!

I agree with this completely. Martial arts is a great thing for kids to do. Not only are they able to defend themselves, but they are taught that using your body athletically is pleasant and empowering and even some communication skills. I also like the idea that my daughter can tell her dates in the teen years to come that she is a black belt ;)

[Ceres]

You can't really vote properly without being a 'victim' of this. I think that no one should ever raise their hand to anyone else. The parent is usually too tired to calm them down.

Good point - being the parent actually means being the one to hold yourself together when things get difficult.

[Ravens_Tears]

I voted Yes, under certain circumstances. We had a similar discussion in a thread a few years back, rather than re post, here 's a link to my thoughts posted on the subject
My Personal opinion on Spanking (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=529940&postcount=16)

[Sequoia]

Ah, but you misinterpreted my comment about coming down to their level. I didnt say you explain it. I said you tell them in no uncertain terms how it has to be. There is a world of difference. The reason you come down to their level is because a lot of noise over their heads doesnt have the same impact as an adult bending to look at a child eye to eye and speaking seriously. They come to know when you do that, there is no alternative. It IS showing them who is in charge. My point is they dont usually need to be hit to understand that.

Ah, so you mean literally coming down to their level. :) Gotcha. I do believe, however, that from time to time, children do demonstrate that they have no intention of listening to you. You can only say "No, Johnny" so many times. Eventually, he's gonna get a spanking. And maybe nextime, he won't do it. He won't want the spanking. You know?

[halfwaynowhere]

well, my parents used that as a punishment on us quite a bit... it tingled for a few minutes, but then we pretty much forgot about it... then they switched to giving us a tablespoon of tabasco sauce. i think i prefered the spankings... they weren't regular or anything, just when we were bad. i don't think its okay to beat children, but a little smack can sometimes scare them into behaving, at least, thats what i think... just not beatings, the two aren't the same at all...

[Ceres]

Ah, so you mean literally coming down to their level. :) Gotcha. I do believe, however, that from time to time, children do demonstrate that they have no intention of listening to you. You can only say "No, Johnny" so many times. Eventually, he's gonna get a spanking. And maybe nextime, he won't do it. He won't want the spanking. You know?

Actually, I think one problem with saying "no johnny" is children hear no so much it comes to have no meaning and so they DONT listen.
When you come down to their level and make eye contact and say specifically what you expect in clear wording and in a serious way, most kids will take note. "I expect you to answer politely when gramma asks a question" means more than "no backtalk to gramma"
Some dont - I have one like this and its frustrating as hell! What I have found works is to be consistant with dealing with it and give reliable consequences. I have, as I said before, resorted to spanking when the behavior was extreme. I dont use it often as I dont think the long term lessons it teaches are good ones, but I also dont think a swat on the butt is going to send them into therapy in their adult years ;)

[Aowyn]

I was spanked as a child, when I was very small it was usually with a hand, when I got bigger it was with a belt but it was always on my tush. In all honestly I can count on one hand the times my butt met betsy the belt, it was one heck of a deterrent for me all my parents had to do was snap it against itself and I would stop whatever I was doing wrong. They reasoned with me more effectively when I was older around the time I reached middle school I guess (note I am very headstrong and was far more unreasonable then than I am now). I was not an easy child when I was set on doing something. I personally don't feel scarred by it, although I don't plan on using a belt on my boy ever. A switch will suffice just fine I figure although he would have to be alot older than he is now and of course have to do something particularly bad.

Personally I don't think that it is a matter of the parent being lazy I think it is a matter of sometimes nothing else working. I have a few cousins that the whole time out type of punishment was used on....it did not work a darn on them, they would serve their time and go back to what they were doing wrong shortly afterwards. I am sure that it might work on some kids but not all. Actually when I would babysit the girl their mother gave me special dispensation to swat a butt if she went too far with something. I am the only person that ever spanked her and consequently was the only person she ever showed a lick (pardon the pun) of respect to and I only had to do it 2 times after that she would always listen to me.

[Shadowulfe]

personally i use the time out method, although there have been a few instances where my daughter was really naughty that i was close to spanking her

[Élistariel]

I'm posting again...
I got spanked too as a child. When my parents were still married and my father was still a part of my life. He was the main disciplinarian. I know that I deserved punishment everytime I got it. Just not to the degree that I got it. My punishment was almost always with a belt. My dad would wait for me, and count until I came. So, if my dad got to 30 by the time I got there, that's how many smacks on the bottom I got with the belt. My mom had pictures of me as a toddler, covered in bruises... Needless to say, she won in the custody battle. My father had one hell of a temper. He's ripped the phone off the wall, punched through a glasstop table... I've also gotten the flyswatter a time or two. I was raised by grandparents after that. I got the occasional swat on the bottom. Nothing major. I got slapped across the face once as a teenager, and yes I DID deserve it. My grandmother said something mean about my friend and I slapped her across the face for it. She slapped me back. I've never been hit since. For my Gran a "lecture" was most effective. She could corner you to the wall with a lecture. You STAYED and listened.. otherwise, you got a handprint across your arm from where she grabbed you and made you stay....
blah... the last half wasn't as bad as it sounded.

[SilentDreams]

I like some here view a spank as ONE swat on the butt. I think I was spanked twice in my childhood. But see I can barely remember. I think thats good. I think spanking should be a last resort or unless the thing the child did was truly horrid. It all depends on the situation. But I think its fine for a child to get a little swat once in a great while. That way they know they truly screwed up and hopefully will learn their lesson.

[Sequoia]

I'm posting again...
I got spanked too as a child. When my parents were still married and my father was still a part of my life. He was the main disciplinarian. I know that I deserved punishment everytime I got it. Just not to the degree that I got it. My punishment was almost always with a belt. My dad would wait for me, and count until I came. So, if my dad got to 30 by the time I got there, that's how many smacks on the bottom I got with the belt. My mom had pictures of me as a toddler, covered in bruises... Needless to say, she won in the custody battle. My father had one hell of a temper. He's ripped the phone off the wall, punched through a glasstop table... I've also gotten the flyswatter a time or two. I was raised by grandparents after that. I got the occasional swat on the bottom. Nothing major. I got slapped across the face once as a teenager, and yes I DID deserve it. My grandmother said something mean about my friend and I slapped her across the face for it. She slapped me back. I've never been hit since. For my Gran a "lecture" was most effective. She could corner you to the wall with a lecture. You STAYED and listened.. otherwise, you got a handprint across your arm from where she grabbed you and made you stay....
blah... the last half wasn't as bad as it sounded.

That's pretty terrible... I really don't believe in beating a child with a belt, anyway. I'm sorry for your experience. :(

[misschief]

I raise my children the same way I was taught to raise a dog. At very early ages you stickly disapline them. Strickly! From a young age it is engrained into their minds that if they do something wrong, the punishment will be harsh. Then when they are older, they remember that and don't take the risk.

Keep in mind that "harsh" and "strick" are relative terms based on age. Having your hand swatted when you are 2 is much more harsh than if it were to happen when you are 10.

I have swatted my children, I have spanked my children, I will continue to do so when it is warrented. I do not "hit" them to cause pain, but more to emphasize and draw attention to what they have done. Likewise, when my children were very young and went through their biting stage, they were flicked in the mouth. (same theory as rubbing a dogs nose in it's mess). Never enough to leave a mark or cause pain...just enough to emphasize.

Many people do not agree with me, so be it. But so far, my kids are very well manored, do not throw fits and (usually) don't need to be told more than once.i agree with you on your choice of punishment. i personally don't do much other than swat my almost 2-year old on the hand... but i do think that you know very well the difference between showing them and hurting them. like you said flicking them in the mouth, not to hurt or leave a mark, just to help your point along. hey- that's a hell of a lot better than the parents i see in stores yank their baby up and whoop their ass for biting without saying a word!! when kids are too young to completely understand what you say, some mild physical thing is fine imo. even my pediatrician agrees that things i do, like lightly smacking the baby's hand, are perfectly ok, as long as it's not done out of anger or to cause pain, marks, injuries, etc. as far as i know, you are a great parent tz.

lots of people spank and hit to cause pain.. not saying you do tz.. i'm fairly sure i know better :). but someone addressed that a few posts ago. a question as to whether i mean people shouldn't do it, or shouldn't do it for pain. um.. of course they shouldn't do it for pain.. but no matter what people say, many parents DO use hitting for pain. which.. is abuse. period. anyone who uses physical punishment to cause pain in a child is on my bad side. like... you've all seen the parent, stressed out with the uncontrolable child, not sure of what to do.. or just furious say " i'll give you something to cry about". uh.. excuse me? what the hell is wrong with those people?

i personally don't spank my children, it does more harm that good in my case. but as long as the parent isn't HURTING the child, leaving marks, degrading the child, doing it completely out of anger or frustration, or doing some other damaging thing to the child's confidence, it's completely at his or her discretion. punishments must ALWAYS be explained to the child at the time of punishment.. otherwise you end up with a little basket case on your hands and it gets harder and harder to deal with. yeah.. i'm getting off topic.. so i guess i'll stop here.. lol. it just angers me when children aren't treated fairly. it's almost like some parents see their children as sub-human and it makes me crazy.

note for those of you who just skimmed: incase you didn't see it, do notice this post wasn't flaming tz, i just continued on the subject after a response to her. if you read thru it, you'll see that i actually complimented her parenting.
i skim alot, and miss important things sometimes.. so just thought i'd add that at the end...

[Sequoia]

I think that's the key - spanking isn't done to hurt the child, or used as an outlet for anger. Spanking is used to get the attention of the child, to focus him/her and say "Look. You did something wrong. You AREN'T listening, no matter how patient mommy is. You have no choice but to listen to this. Now, pay attention this time, and stop doing what you did wrong."

Most parents are going to realize that if you talk, soft-punish, yell, spank, and STILL nothing gets done... maybe there's a larger issue at hand. Even the loudest yell, strongest smack, or most terrible punishment aren't going to have any lasting effect if the home environment is not working correctly. Sometimes a child's misbehavior is a wake-up call to the parent, and that their home needs to be disciplined more than the child does.

It's all about relativity. You wouldn't spank an infant. Neither would you take a teenager over your knee. (Although I'm quite positive there will be times when you are tempted to try it!) Age-appropriate punishments are key - they aren't meant to be fun, or make the parent feel powerful or better than the child. They're meant to remind the child of how they are supposed to behave, and that when they don't understand why, no matter how much mommy explains, then they are just going to have to accept that Mommy knows why, and listen, or else.

[Sequoia]

And thinking on it, I would like to add just one more thing.

I would rather give my child a swat, than to scream in their face. A swat will get their attention, but if you are yelling at them, all they will hear is the screaming, and nothing behind it. It's terrifying to be yelled at - I'd rather have had a swat and gotten it over with. The yelling didn't improve my behavior either - I was simply more confused, more angry, and more willing to disobey.

[Black RiverWolf]

as kids we learned alot of lessons via the wooden spoon, metal spoon, horse whip, vacume hose, board of correction.... but to me a swat on the butt is not a big deal. One swat with an open hand. but as a last resort only.

[Amethyst Rose]

I was raised with spankings...didn't happen very often, cuz I really only remember one, when I ran into traffic and almost got hit by a car.

I do use hand slaps for my son, only when nothing else will work. For example, we have a projector, and on a shelf behind the projector screen is all our electronics and DVDs. He has repeatedly climbed behind the screen and gone to take the dvds out. I must have told him no, and removed him from the situation a good 10 times yesterday, before I smacked his hand as he pulled a dvd out, then removed him from the situation. He cried and came to me with a hug, which I gave to him and then explained that he has to listen when mommy says no, and we had a little talk about why he can't do what he was doing. He probably only understood half of it, if that, but it sets the precident, I think. Anyway....today, he's gone to touch them, but when I said no, backed away.

When he's older, if I have to, I'll spank. I think that too many families are lax on discipline (this doesn't mean that if you don't spank your wrong.... I think you're wrong if you don't discipline, period.), and that is one of the reasons we see so many screwed up kids. If you don't discipline when they're young, pretty soon their old, and bigger than you, and it's too late.

[skyy_blue8278]

I voted no. I am an AP parent and we practice Gentle Disipline.

If the problem can not be talked out then we do time out. If time out does work we take something special away.

[Amethyst Rose]

Just curious.... what do you do when taking something special away doesn't work? And how does talking about it work with a toddler that doesn't understand half of the things you say? I agree with time outs, I've used that myself, but the rest just wouldn't work with an 18 months old.

[misschief]

Just curious.... what do you do when taking something special away doesn't work? And how does talking about it work with a toddler that doesn't understand half of the things you say? I agree with time outs, I've used that myself, but the rest just wouldn't work with an 18 months old.well.. i have a 20 month old, as i said before, if he's trying to mess with an electical outlet, or some other dangerous thing, i do smack his fingers lightly and tell him 'no', or 'ouch' or something along those lines. for less dangerous 'offenses' i find that giving him one minute of time out on his bed is very effective. every child is different, but that works for me.

[Amethyst Rose]

I agree, LadyLeo, I do the same thing with my son. My question was directed towards sky_blue... talking things out with my son would accomplish nothing, cuz he doesn't have that cognitive ability. Hence, the hand smacking or time outs.

[misschief]

ooooo. i'm all about talking things out with kids, but if that works more than say.... 1% of the time, you will probably be hearing your alarm clock shortly, cuz it's time to wake up. lol.

[Amethyst Rose]

LOL, no kidding! :)

[Ceres]

Just curious.... what do you do when taking something special away doesn't work? And how does talking about it work with a toddler that doesn't understand half of the things you say? I agree with time outs, I've used that myself, but the rest just wouldn't work with an 18 months old.

Eighteen month olds are very strong willed, easily challenged creatures. It has been my experience that while they cant be reasoned with, they are usually willing to comply when they arent challenged. For example, if your child is after an electrical outlet, you can use your serious voice to let them know its dangerous and then remove them from the situation without waiting to see how they decide to react so there is no gauntlet being throw down to tempt them to flex their will and see how far they can take things. A power station employee once suggested describing the danger to them by saying there is fire in electrical outlets and that worked well for our family. Children understand early on that fire is hot and can be dangerous.

[Amethyst Rose]

Yeah... I've used the "mean voice" and removed him from the situation so many times it's rediculous... he's back at it within 1/2 an hour. And the fire idea wouldn't work for us. My son has never seen or experienced fire, so he doesn't know what it is or that it's hot. Infact, he probably doesn't even know what "hot" is, cuz he's never burned himself. Interesting idea, though.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Yeah... I've used the "mean voice" and removed him from the situation so many times it's rediculous... he's back at it within 1/2 an hour. And the fire idea wouldn't work for us. My son has never seen or experienced fire, so he doesn't know what it is or that it's hot. Infact, he probably doesn't even know what "hot" is, cuz he's never burned himself. Interesting idea, though.lol, OT, but my older brother's first word was "hot"... Probably because when he started moving around, my parents were constantly telling him not to touch the woodstove because it was hot. ^_^ Interestingly, he had just picked up a wand when he said it. ^_^

The stern voice worked pretty well for us as children, but I'm sure we got our hands smacked if we were persistent. Or when we were older and we'd pretend to obey but then go back to what we were doing; the giggling gave us away everytime. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Sequoia]

Does anyone have any idea as to why someone would see a smack on the hand as "violent" and "inexcusable"?

[AuroraSilvermist]

I believe that spanking my kids means I have lost control, so I don't consider it as a means of gaining an advantage when a child is out of control.

I was spanked a few times as a child, but very rarely. I can't remember any of the reasons why I was spanked; not a single instance. And that's my point! I don't think kids learn anything from being spanked. I find that once a child has been spanked they do any combination of three things; they cry, sulk, and/or feel sorry for themselves. They're not thinking, "Gee, I did something wrong and I should learn from this experience," they're thinking, "I got smacked, and it hurts, and my parents are mean, and this sucks!"

When my kids misbehaved as toddlers and preschoolers, I used time-outs. Occasionally I still do that with my 7 year old daughter, though rarely. Now, I take away privileges. It works. I have other parents and teachers and friends and people I don't even know tell me how well-behaved my kids are, and neither one of them has ever been spanked more than once or twice in their young lives, and those were times when ol' Mom flipped out, not the other way around. (Funny, the one instance where I spanked my son I remember the circumstances exactly. He was on the stairs with his little sister, and she said something snotty to him, and, not thinking, he gave her a shove and nearly sent her flying. I lost it and gave him a single swat on the butt. He doesn't remember the occasion at all.)

Anyhow, enough of my soapbox. I don't believe spanking leads to better discipline. I don't believe in spare the rod, spoil the child. My kids aren't spoiled. They sure aren't perfect, but they know how to talk out their feelings and they're learning to express themselves in more positive ways than taking a swing at people.

[Amethyst Rose]

I was spanked a few times as a child, but very rarely. I can't remember any of the reasons why I was spanked; not a single instance. And that's my point! I don't think kids learn anything from being spanked. I find that once a child has been spanked they do any combination of three things; they cry, sulk, and/or feel sorry for themselves. They're not thinking, "Gee, I did something wrong and I should learn from this experience," they're thinking, "I got smacked, and it hurts, and my parents are mean, and this sucks!"



Respectfully, I disagree. I never once thought that my parents only spanked me because they were mean. I understood from day one that it only happened as a last resort when I hadn't learned my lesson through other measures. I knew that if it happened it was because I was in the wrong and I needed to straighten up.

Likewise, I can tell that if my son cries when he gets his hand slapped its not because he's scared of me and thinks I'm mean, it's because he's mad that I said no, and demonstrated to him a consequence of his actions. He has the exact same reaction if I give him a time out. Except timeouts make him cry louder and longer.

I do think that spankings shouldn't be given indescriminately or without an explination afterwards. Even though my son only understands half of what I say, I still always explain to him why he got his hands smacked, or why he was made to go sit in his crib, and why he has to listen.

[Ceres]

Hot was the first word my kids learned as well because when they were babies and I would be having coffee with them in my lap and the first time they reached for my cup I would show them why not to grab at it by touching their hand quickly to the side of it (not enough to burn, but enough to see it would hurt to hold your hand there) and I would say "hot". Later, they would then point to coffee cups whenever they saw them and say "hot" in wise, grave little voices and so they never grabbed for them. This education in heat continued with the stove because when it was on I would use scared mommy voice and say "stay away! its HOT" since they understood hot already, and could feel the radiant heat, they also never ventured near the stove. They learned fire is what makes candles hot and so when we told them fire was inside those holes in the wall (which is sorta true, insofar as they could understand) they knew it meant they werent for playing with. I never swatted hands or butts through any of this. The only time I have found it neccessary is for out of control disrepectful behavior, and that has been very seldom needed and only with one particular child.

[Amethyst Rose]

Yeah, that I totally understand. I don't drink coffee or tea, except for maybe before bed.... I don't have candles except for way out of reach. The only time the fire has been going has been after he's gone to bed. My stove doesn't get hot to the touch at all. The only thing that he might relate hot to, is his food. I have been trying to teach him how to blow on his food because it's hot, or to be careful, because it's hot. Otherwise.....

Oh well, we dont' have too much trouble with outlets, cuz we have those all child proofed. Well....except for the occasional time when he tries to remove the child proof thingy with his teeth. :)

[BlackMagicalCat]

wondering about the concensus although I am pretty sure I can guess it.
I believe in spanking,but great care needs to be taken to have punishment controlled and no child needs to be abused,or harmed,a whack on the butt will do,no face should ever be slapped in my opinion,only whacks on the rearend,my son is 14 and I spanked him 2 times that I can remember,once when he kicked me and said<I hate you>because he wanted to play video games right now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the other time when he axidently hit me,he was just playing around but he still hit me so I gave him one whack with a belt,he looked at me and I looked at him and we sat down and played video games,Im to old to spank him now,he is bigger than me,,,,,,,,,,,,I love him so much and we have so much fun together,I am so blessed to have a son who loves me and he is so kind hearted and wise,thankyou Lord for my son.

[Earthy]

I'm not anti smacking, i have just found that i don't need to now.
I did when the kids were younger but Billy is 4 now and i have found more successful ways of disciplining him than by smacking him.
Of course, occassionally he has had a smack when pushing things too far though i warn him first.The warning is generally enough.

[Ravyn Sylverwyng]

I voted yes in some instances. I rarely spank my children, as I generally get more results from just talking to them. But, there are instances that I do spank them, especially when they do things that go directly against what I have told them and it could cause them more harm not to do it. Such as playing in the street, going to a friends house and leaving from there without permission, things of this nature. Usually, I will take away a priviledge for the older ones, or for the youngest, make them sit in time out. But, yes, there are certainly times when a small smack on the bottom is worth ten times more than words ever can be.

[Hope3645]

I voted never, but maybe I should have voted in some instances. I understand that sometimes it is impossible to get through to very small children in any other way, and that they have to learn not to do dangerous things. I think in general the younger children are not as harmed by spanking because most parents only spank small children for their own good, and not hard at all (I know this isn't universally so, but it is my experience).
For older children (like 3 and up) my experience has been different. Parents that I know and witness (like in Wal-Mart and such) usually spank these kids for minor misbehavior. They also tend to do it pretty hard, and mainly because they are angry (even in public) with the kid. This was my experience growing up as well. My mother would just go off on me and start hitting me very hard on the butt, legs, sometimes even face. This is what most people I know refer to as spanking their children (I am from Alabama though). This never taught me anything except distrust for my mother. It also made me act out a lot more, and I usually fought back. The first time I was spanked I hit my mother with a 2 by 4 (I was three). I guess my point is that violence only breeds more violence. Most of the bullies I knew in elementary school had abusive parents (they got wiped often, and with things like electric cords).
Also I am sociology major. All the studies I've heard of have reported negative effects of violent punishment on children. Children who are spanked often are more likely to be antisocial as teens and adults. They are much more likely to commit violent crime. We were having a discussion in my social pysch class earlier in the year. The professor asked if we think spanking is effective behavior modification. I said no, but I think it is effective, but not at what we think it is in the long run. It is effective, but it isn't functional.
Oh, I forgot to mention that my best friend in high school was the most well behaved kid all through school. Her mother never had a reason to complain about anything, and neither did the teachers. Her mother also NEVER spanked her.

[Sequoia]

For older children (like 3 and up) my experience has been different. Parents that I know and witness (like in Wal-Mart and such) usually spank these kids for minor misbehavior. They also tend to do it pretty hard, and mainly because they are angry (even in public) with the kid. This was my experience growing up as well. My mother would just go off on me and start hitting me very hard on the butt, legs, sometimes even face. This is what most people I know refer to as spanking their children.

That's not spanking. That's abuse. A spanking is a private occurance when Johnny knows he's done something wrong, and knows why, knows what would happen, and chose to do it anyway. It is with the hand ONLY, never with an object. And as far as I know, it never, never involves angrilly hitting the child in the face.

[Earthy]

Wow.
I have never hit my children in the face, that is definitely abuse.

[wooleybob]

Well I voted yes.
After a parent has done everything in their power,without using violence,such as time out,grounding,taking things and privledges away,I say a swat on the butt as a last resort for a wake up call wont hurt them.But afterwards tell them why they ended up getting it in the first place..

[Hope3645]

That's not spanking. That's abuse. A spanking is a private occurance when Johnny knows he's done something wrong, and knows why, knows what would happen, and chose to do it anyway. It is with the hand ONLY, never with an object. And as far as I know, it never, never involves angrilly hitting the child in the face.

I agree that this is what it should mean, but I think it probably has a lot to do with the area I live in. When people say they spank their kids here it can mean anything from a smack on the bottom to a full on beating. I think I only received one spanking that wasn't simply motivated by anger in my whole life (from my father). This is a big part of the reason that I do not plan to spank my kids. What sane people (and I) call abuse tends to run in familys. It definetly does in mine on my mother's side. She told be that when she was about 15 her father beat her so hard with a belt that blood ran down her legs.

Anyway, when people around here ask if I believe in spanking I usually say no because for us it covers a wide range of punishment. Also, I never responded well to it, and I don't think my kids will either.

[Ben Gruagach]

My partner and I are going through the process right now of adopting in Minnesota.

We were told that the official legal stance in this state is that if you plan on using spanking, then you will not be considered a suitable adoptive parent.

Just something to keep in mind... in some places, using spanking to discipline children can get parents in trouble.

[LacyRoze]

Spanking, for me, is an absolute last resort when everything else has failed. I never spank when I am angry or upset. I never smack anywhere other than the butt and I always, always sit down and talk with my child afterward to make sure they understand why they received a spanking and why the behavior that led to it is unacceptable...

[soilsigh aingeal]

Likewise, I can tell that if my son cries when he gets his hand slapped its not because he's scared of me and thinks I'm mean, it's because he's mad that I said no, and demonstrated to him a consequence of his actions. He has the exact same reaction if I give him a time out. Except timeouts make him cry louder and longer
I agree with this. My kids cry the same way no matter how they're punished. They're just mad that they didn't get their own way and they get over it quickly. If I "spank" the behind of my DIAPERED kid, it's not going to hurt them.

It sucks to get punished. My mom never smacked me when I was younger - that I can remember, I'm sure that I got hand smacks and the like when I was a toddler, I just mean I didn't get the slipper or the wooden spoon like so many people that I know. But when I was sent to my room or grounded, I thought my mom was mean and that she sucked too and I even probably "hated" her a little too. So you're pretty much screwed either way.

[chrestomancie]

I raise my children the same way I was taught to raise a dog. At very early ages you stickly disapline them. Strickly! From a young age it is engrained into their minds that if they do something wrong, the punishment will be harsh. Then when they are older, they remember that and don't take the risk.

Keep in mind that "harsh" and "strick" are relative terms based on age. Having your hand swatted when you are 2 is much more harsh than if it were to happen when you are 10.

I have swatted my children, I have spanked my children, I will continue to do so when it is warrented. I do not "hit" them to cause pain, but more to emphasize and draw attention to what they have done. Likewise, when my children were very young and went through their biting stage, they were flicked in the mouth. (same theory as rubbing a dogs nose in it's mess). Never enough to leave a mark or cause pain...just enough to emphasize.

Many people do not agree with me, so be it. But so far, my kids are very well manored, do not throw fits and (usually) don't need to be told more than once.

Yes, this is the way I was raised. And I never threw fits (after the first one), and didn't need to be told more than once. I was a very good kid growing up. And if I ever have children, this is the way they will be raised. My dogs are so much more 'well behaved' than most children I meet. They make me VERY proud to be a dog mommy. And when they misbehave/ignore me. They get a little swatting. Normally with a newpaper.

[chrestomancie]

I also remember one time I was in major trouble and being an A1 brat, I told my mother in no uncertain terms (she was the main discipliner in the family and still one of my best friends), that she just enjoyed whipping me. She turned me around gave me the switch and told me to whip her then. I couldn't do it. It still bothers me to this day.

[chrestomancie]

That's not spanking. That's abuse. A spanking is a private occurance when Johnny knows he's done something wrong, and knows why, knows what would happen, and chose to do it anyway. It is with the hand ONLY, never with an object. And as far as I know, it never, never involves angrilly hitting the child in the face.

I was backhanded twice in my life. I deserved them both. I backtalked my mother really bad once and she backhanded me. And my grandma who never hit me (besided the swatting [on the backside] she gave me for nearly giving her a heart attack when I went to play at a neighbors and didn't tell her where I was going) backhanded me when I backtalked her. I never got hit in the mouth for anything else.

[Sequoia]

My partner and I are going through the process right now of adopting in Minnesota.

We were told that the official legal stance in this state is that if you plan on using spanking, then you will not be considered a suitable adoptive parent.

Just something to keep in mind... in some places, using spanking to discipline children can get parents in trouble.

(That's so beautiful... I know you'll both be wonderful parents!)

Isn't that funny? You can pop a kid out, feed them horribly, beat them senseless, and clothe them in rags... and it's pretty much left alone. But if you want to adopt one, you can't even tell them "No, no cookie before dinner!" without a child care worker wanting to haul the kid away.

[Mistress_Ravenshadow]

here in australia the law is that if you use physical punishment with your children:
Dont ever use force above their shoulders
dont use force that could harm them for more than a short period of time, below their shoulders
they even provided a checklist for parents in a pamphlet
it said dont use physical force on a baby
dont use physical force on a child's face neck or head
dont use strong or repeated physical force, such as hitting a child over and over without stopping or in a way that could mark or bruise your child..

Its sad when the government has to be so specific.. when parents cant be trusted to be reasonable that they have to pass a law so stringent to stop kids getting abused..I dont understand the mentality of ppl who bash and neglect their kids
its not hard to know the difference between bashing and spanking IMO and what is even sader is that alot (not all) of the ones bashing their kids had it done to them when they were growing up.. you would think they would remember how awful it was and not do it to their kids..

[ApollaJade]

They did a study where they followed 8 kids from the time they were born until they were 18. 4 of the kids never got any physical pounishment, and 4 got a smack on the hand or swat on the butt when they were misbehaving. As a result, the kids with the smacks got better test scores, had more self control and more self esteem because they learned from their mistakes the first time around instead of repeating it over and over without any real consequences until something really bad happened.

My cousin Quinn (3) punched his sister Emma (then 5 mos) in the neck while she was playing on the floor. My aunt Carrie sent him down to the office in the basement where his dad was working and told him to tell his dad what he did. He got 3 smacks on the butt with the belt. He hasn't touched Emma since. The other day, he was screaming and growling (which before punishment he did regularly, even after being told no) at people. He got a hit with the slotted wooden spoon. Hasn't done that since, either. I don't condone violence, and sometimes physical punishments are taken waaaaaaaaaaay too far, but it works when used properly and calmly

[Ceres]

8 children does not a conclusive study make. The parenting skills of the parents and the personal tendencies of the children have more to do with how they turn out than if they are physically punished or not IMO. Perhaps a larger study might account for those factors.

[Galaxia]

Ω

[misschief]

We were told that the official legal stance in this state is that if you plan on using spanking, then you will not be considered a suitable adoptive parent.

see... you'd think that would tell people something..

(not directed toward ben) it's not okay to spank an adult who is misbehaving at the store, because that's called assault, so why should it be ok with a child?

[~~Cypher~~]

Never ever ever ever ever ever ever!

Its like trying to teach a child not to hit by knocking them for a loop...
teaching a child not to smoke by makeing them smoke a whole pack of cigarettes (or cigars)

I would never lay a hand on my children...

[Sequoia]

see... you'd think that would tell people something..

(not directed toward ben) it's not okay to spank an adult who is misbehaving at the store, because that's called assault, so why should it be ok with a child?

Because the law applies to most adults; parents are the law for children.

[Lunacie]

see... you'd think that would tell people something..

(not directed toward ben) it's not okay to spank an adult who is misbehaving at the store, because that's called assault, so why should it be ok with a child?
Adults still face consequences for not following the rules. Most of us have been saying that spanking is only for children who are too young to understand other consequences or for those who don't care about other consequences and repeatedly break the rules. Adults who break the rules, especially repeatedly, spend time in jail. Would you rather see children locked up in juvie wards than to get a spanking? And I'm talking about a swat on the behind or the hand, not an assault. I am NOT saying it's okay to assault a child for any reason.

[misschief]

Because the law applies to most adults; parents are the law for children.excuse me?! parents are the LAW...... ooooooooooook. parents are nothing more than support for children. they are there to teach and protect, to ensure the child(ren) are capable, healthy, etc, enough to live on their own. we are NOT the law... that is ridiculous. don't take this as flaming, i'm not flaming at all... but really, think about what you said. children aren't an object that you own, they are INDIVIDUALS.

it disappoints me more than i can say to know that there are tons of children being raised with that idea.

[misschief]

Would you rather see children locked up in juvie wards than to get a spanking? of course not. and, even tho i took it out of the quote, i want to acknowledge that i did see the statement after the one i quoted, and agree.... the thing is, too many parents don't know, or just don't care about the difference between lightly smacking hands or whatever, spanking, and beating. it seems to me that some adults don't have enough sense to step back and see what they're doing to their children... i'm not referring to you.. lol. just in general. it just makes me sick. bleh.

more parents just need to learn to PARENT. bottom line.

[Ceres]

more parents just need to learn to PARENT. bottom line.

YES!! :) Knowing HOW to parent is the real problem, IMO, not whether or not to spank. I think some kids can be raised well without ever being spanked. I think kids can be raised well who were spanked as well. What it comes down to is thoughtful, educated, empathetic, caring parenting.
To imply that spanking or not spanking in of itself determines whether or not the parenting was effective is erroneous.

[misschief]

YES!! :) Knowing HOW to parent is the real problem, IMO, not whether or not to spank. I think some kids can be raised well without ever being spanked. I think kids can be raised well who were spanked as well. What it comes down to is thoughtful, educated, empathetic, caring parenting.
To imply that spanking or not spanking in of itself determines whether or not the parenting was effective is erroneous.sure, but i don't believe i implied that. that isn't even what i was talking about.

in one post i was addressing parents being the 'law', and in the other i was answering the question as to whether we should just let them all go to jail.

but still.. hitting is hitting. *shrug*

[Ceres]

I meant it was implied in earlierposts, Ladyleo. The alternatives are not spank or have kids that go to juvy hall.... :) There are lots of different ways to parent and certainly every kid requires different styles.

[misschief]

well... ok then!! :lol:

[Hope3645]

Corporal Punishment Leads to More Immediate Compliant Behavior in Children, But is also Associated with Physical Abuse
While conducting the meta-analysis, which included 62 years of collected data, Gershoff looked for associations between parental use of corporal punishment and 11 child behaviors and experiences, including several in childhood (immediate compliance, moral internalization, quality of relationship with parent, and physical abuse from that parent), three in both childhood and adulthood (mental health, aggression, and criminal or antisocial behavior) and one in adulthood alone (abuse of own children or spouse).

Gershoff found "strong associations" between corporal punishment and all eleven child behaviors and experiences. Ten of the associations were negative such as with increased child aggression and antisocial behavior. The single desirable association was between corporal punishment and increased immediate compliance on the part of the child.

http://www.apa.org/releases/spanking.html

[Amethyst Rose]

There are plenty of studies to support both sides of the argument, and of course, there's also personal experience to go off of.

[PantherSpirit]

Hmmm, this one is sort of a tough one for me to answer. I wasn't really "spanked" growing up. No, instead, my dad just beat the shit out of me. I grew up telling myself that if I ever had a child that I would NEVER spank him. SOOOOOOO much easier said than done..however, I STILL haven't done it. I have lightly "smacked" his hand when he's reached for something hot like a my coffee or when he's reached over to my plate to try and grab a knife. My son is the most bull headed, independant child I have ever known..lol. (I worked in Daycare for YEARS before I had him) I deal with him on his level. When he crosses a boundary, I get down eyeball-to-eyeball with him and tell him "No. What you did was wrong." I have a red mat (a 3ftx3ft piece of carpet) that I call the "Trouble Square". He knows what the mat is and he knows that he's there because he did something that he wasn't supposed to do. He stays there for 2 mintues (he's two years old) and at the end of that 2 minutes I tell him he is free to go and play and that I love him. Every time he gets up from the mat, the first thing he does is run to me and give me a hug. The last time that I have had to use the mat was about a week ago. So, the mat works for us.

[Faerin]

My husband and I would give my son a swat on the butt when he was misbehaving because that's how we were both brought up. We would never use force or do it out of anger. However, one time my son hit either me or my husband and I swat him on the butt and said "do not hit people"......
I thought that for a second and never spanked my son again. Seriously...

Now that I have tried different techniques to discipline my son I find that there are other way more effective ways to get my point across. Not only that, but I don't feel so bad about them...I never did like the way I felt after spanking my son, no matter how benign it all seemed.

[Sequoia]

excuse me?! parents are the LAW...... ooooooooooook. parents are nothing more than support for children. they are there to teach and protect, to ensure the child(ren) are capable, healthy, etc, enough to live on their own. we are NOT the law... that is ridiculous. don't take this as flaming, i'm not flaming at all... but really, think about what you said. children aren't an object that you own, they are INDIVIDUALS.

it disappoints me more than i can say to know that there are tons of children being raised with that idea.

Uhh... so let me get this straight. You aren't there to provide rules for your children, you're just there to cuddle them and smile? So... when Sally goes approaches the stove, it's okay to let her, because "she'll learn on her own"? Or when Johnny runs out into the street, you can't bodily fling him back, because that would be "mean"? Heck, if 8-year-old Sam goes and directly disobeys you, dragging toiletpaper all over the backyard and throwing stones, breaking windows... all Sam really needs is "You're a naughty child!" and a time-out?

See, it was my impression that adults were there to give children a world with gentle rules and boundaries, something supportive and yet restricted, to keep themselves and others safe. Many more studdies than "a spank = abuse" studdies have vastly and uniformly confirmed that a home with rules and routines give children a MUCH more secure, safe, and loved feeling. A child will know that if they're bad, purposefully bad, there is going to be hell to pay.

No, you don't spank a child for stealing a cookie. No, you don't spank a child for not doing his homework. But if your child purposefully breaks a rule, damages property, or talks back to you with full intent and knowledge, then I'm sorry, that kid needs to get a smack on the butt, because obviously whatever other cockamamy parenting that's been done hasn't worked.

Coddling a child when they've purposefully acted out with intent to upset you is NOT constructive - it will only teach them that they'll get the attention they want. Giving them a "time out" will only work at certain ages, and only for certain children. By all means, try EVERYTHING else you'd like, but don't condemn other parents as not being as sensitive or special or good as you. One day you'll come to a situation that you cannot handle, and that they can. Does that make them suddenly better parents than you? No? What's that you're saying? That every child and situation is different?

Bingo. Now quit insulting all the excellent "spanking" parents out there.

[Sequoia]

it's not okay to spank an adult who is misbehaving at the store

Actually, I do spank my lover when he's being a pain in the ass at the store. One good swat.

And anyone stupid enough to think that a spank is "assault" is obviously an ambulance-chasing droolbucket. It might "technically" be catagorized that way, but if someone is going to be suing over a slap on the buttocks, they really need a reality check.

Frankly, I'd appreciate it if some parents swat their little brats, rather than shop for an hour and a half with the little tyke screaming, red-faced, and grabbing everything off the shelves. That, and it shocks me how many people bring in their toddlers in jammies, who had obviously been sleeping, for whatever reason. Could it really not wait until morning?

[Karma Chameleon]

I'm totally against spanking kids. I don't think it's right to hit a child.

[gurlygurl2004]

I don't believe in spanking kids, there are better ways to punish a child so they can learn.

[Lunacie]

Sequoia, when you challenged LadyLeo's post I had to go back and reread both posts to make sure we were reading the same thing. When she says parents should teach and protect their children I don't take that as letting them do whatever they want and hang the consequences. I protect my grandchildren from running into the street and getting hit by a car or truck by making rules and enforcing them. Spanking them is not the only way to do that, but I've certainly used a swat on the butt a few times. In the post of LadyLeo's that you copied she didn't say using discipline was "mean", was that from another post?

[9-2-2]

I voted Yes, but now that I think about it, I should have voted "Sometimes". I had the innards beaten out of me by my old man when I was little. However, I have enough common sense to separate appropriate discipline with outright, psychotic abuse. When I had my stepson, I gave him 3 light swats on the bottom with a spatula, with his pants on. If you take a light CD case and lightly rap it on the back of your hand, that's what my spankings feel like. It doesn't hurt, it is NEVER meant to hurt, but it gets his attention. Yes, he cries, goes off to a corner and pouts, but only because we "dared" to resist him so strongly.

I don't go and haul off on a child for every single little thing they do, and I DON'T react in anger. If you spank kids for everything, eventually the spanking will become ineffective. I speak sternly, I remove priviledges and toys for 6 months to a year, and if after many warnings and orders, if he continues to disobey in a damaging factor, I swat him on the bottom.

I don't believe in unusual forms of punishment, i.e. slapping the child's head off, removing their bedroom door, making them walk on eggshells, making them sit outside in the backyard for half the day, killing or giving away their favorite pet, destroying their homework so they'd face ridicule at school, etc. Discipline should never damage the child, but be instructive.

[Hope3645]

There are plenty of studies to support both sides of the argument, and of course, there's also personal experience to go off of.

This is very true. Thats why I picked this study. It is very large scale, and takes many different studies over the last 62 years into account. I posted this as a reply to the earlier post about the study of a 8 children. Also, the study is not as bias as most (either way they turn out). Gershoff reports the results, but admits that spanking in some of these studies includes what we now consider abuse (as does spanking in real life overall). If this were not the case, the results would not be as dramatic. This is actually a lot more complicated that simply causing harm or not. It depends on context as well.

"In commentary published along with the Gershoff study, George W. Holden, PhD, of the University of Texas at Austin, writes that Gershoff's findings "reflect the growing body of evidence indicating that corporal punishment does no good and may even cause harm." Holden submits that the psychological community should not be advocating spanking as a discipline tool for parents.

In a reply to Gershoff, researchers Diana Baumrind, PhD (Univ. of CA at Berkeley), Robert E. Larzelere, PhD (Nebraska Medical Center), and Philip Cowan, PhD (Univ.of CA at Berkeley), write that because the original studies in Gershoff's meta-analysis included episodes of extreme and excessive physical punishment, her finding is not an evaluation of normative corporal punishment.

"The evidence presented in the meta-analysis does not justify a blanket injunction against mild to moderate disciplinary spanking," conclude Baumrind and her team. Baumrind et al. also conclude that "a high association between corporal punishment and physical abuse is not evidence that mild or moderate corporal punishment increases the risk of abuse."

[Ceres]

A teenager who constantly slams their bedroom door learns a lot of having it removed for a few days. ;) I think the punishment should fit the crime, which can sometimes be odd, but I do agree that it should teach. We use "natural consequences" whenever possible too. This means trying to stay out of a situation and allow the child to experience what will happen by their disobedience or defiance or even stubborness. Naturally, this isnt always possible (you cant teach a toddler to look before they cross the street by allowing them to get hit by a car), but it is an option way more frequently than it is used.

[WingedTigerChild]

I don't believe in physical violence as a means of discipline. I think it sends the wrong message(s). Some children come to think that because mommy or daddy hit them when they've done something wrong, it is okay to hit others for the same reason. And then there's the idea of instilling fear and the fear of 'punishment' in a child to make him listen. A child should not be taught to obey out of fear. He should be taught to do the 'right thing' because it makes sense, not because he'll get in trouble if he doesn't. I was spanked as a child and quite frankly, I can't forgive my parents for it. There are other, more effective ways of discipline. The key is just to start early.

[9-2-2]

I don't believe in physical violence as a means of discipline. I think it sends the wrong message(s). Some children come to think that because mommy or daddy hit them when they've done something wrong, it is okay to hit others for the same reason. And then there's the idea of instilling fear and the fear of 'punishment' in a child to make him listen. A child should not be taught to obey out of fear. He should be taught to do the 'right thing' because it makes sense, not because he'll get in trouble if he doesn't. I was spanked as a child and quite frankly, I can't forgive my parents for it. There are other, more effective ways of discipline. The key is just to start early.

Reasoning doesn't work with all children. You must have miracle kids. :p
The kids (up to 9 yrs. old) I've met don't listen to reason, i.e., my stepson Tyler. Tyler has this obsession with ruining electronics, via plugging / unplugging / smashing buttons / smashing them to bits on the floor / randomly plugging wires into different ports /etc. Now, while he's undoing your cable TV, breaking computer components, setting your caller id to a different language, then you can speak and reason as sternly or as nicely to him as much as you want. You can tell him not to play with electronics because of excuses xyz, i.e., "You'll be shocked, and it will hurt," "It's very expensive," "It breaks easily," etc. He does not listen to adults' babbling. Most children his age that I've met had his exact behavior (or close), and the "go-to-the-corner-and-think-about-what-you-did" deal doesn't work at all. He'll sit there, pouting and being pissed off in general, but he won't LEARN anything. He'll get right back up and go at it again... and if the electronics are moved from his reach, he will throw a huge fit and run right out the front door screaming and yelling, even if we lock and deadbolt it (it's a good thing we're bigger and faster!!! He doesn't understand how much he scares us when he does that!!! :( ). In fact, time-outs have turned him into an inconsiderate, spiteful, spoiled brat. I don't say that to his face, but I'm sorry to say that it's the reality, and it's the way he is. He has no discipline, he doesn't focus unless he's around electronics. He started getting better before we lost him. I have NEVER disciplined him to release anger, or to make him cower before me; I only do it to make him pay attention, and to teach him.

Quite frankly, the only children I've seen throughout half the U.S. that weren't like him were infants, brainwashed Christian kids, and sleeping kids. The children who received physical discipline were better behaved. I'm not talking about the kids who had the piss beaten out of them for spilling water on the carpet; I'm talking about the kids who received a light smack-bottom, or a spanking with a belt. I think belts are rather harsh, so I use a spatula, wooden spoon, or a small switch from a tree. I always explain to him in a gentle, quiet voice why I'm doing this, and I ask him if he understood what he has done.

I was surrounded by abuse as a child. I'm thankful that I have the wits not to backhand little kids or jam lit cigarettes into their arms for retarded garbage. :( :( :(

[ApollaJade]

A teenager who constantly slams their bedroom door learns a lot of having it removed for a few days. ;) I think the punishment should fit the crime, which can sometimes be odd, but I do agree that it should teach.


I never understood why they suspend kids that skip school....makes no sense and doesn't fit in anyway...but when I was little i bit my mom, and she turned around and semi-gently bit be on the arm...highly effective.

punishments are much better when they fit the crime.

[WingedTigerChild]

Reasoning doesn't work with all children. You must have miracle kids. :p
The kids (up to 9 yrs. old) I've met don't listen to reason, i.e., my stepson Tyler. Tyler has this obsession with ruining electronics, via plugging / unplugging / smashing buttons / smashing them to bits on the floor / randomly plugging wires into different ports /etc. Now, while he's undoing your cable TV, breaking computer components, setting your caller id to a different language, then you can speak and reason as sternly or as nicely to him as much as you want. You can tell him not to play with electronics because of excuses xyz, i.e., "You'll be shocked, and it will hurt," "It's very expensive," "It breaks easily," etc. He does not listen to adults' babbling. Most children his age that I've met had his exact behavior (or close), and the "go-to-the-corner-and-think-about-what-you-did" deal doesn't work at all. He'll sit there, pouting and being pissed off in general, but he won't LEARN anything. He'll get right back up and go at it again... and if the electronics are moved from his reach, he will throw a huge fit and run right out the front door screaming and yelling, even if we lock and deadbolt it (it's a good thing we're bigger and faster!!! He doesn't understand how much he scares us when he does that!!! :( ). In fact, time-outs have turned him into an inconsiderate, spiteful, spoiled brat. I don't say that to his face, but I'm sorry to say that it's the reality, and it's the way he is. He has no discipline, he doesn't focus unless he's around electronics. He started getting better before we lost him. I have NEVER disciplined him to release anger, or to make him cower before me; I only do it to make him pay attention, and to teach him.

Quite frankly, the only children I've seen throughout half the U.S. that weren't like him were infants, brainwashed Christian kids, and sleeping kids. The children who received physical discipline were better behaved. I'm not talking about the kids who had the piss beaten out of them for spilling water on the carpet; I'm talking about the kids who received a light smack-bottom, or a spanking with a belt. I think belts are rather harsh, so I use a spatula, wooden spoon, or a small switch from a tree. I always explain to him in a gentle, quiet voice why I'm doing this, and I ask him if he understood what he has done.

I was surrounded by abuse as a child. I'm thankful that I have the wits not to backhand little kids or jam lit cigarettes into their arms for retarded garbage. :( :( :( I don't have children of my own, but I babysit, and I have worked with young children (disabled as well), and I raised a younger sister to the age of seven, so I do have some experience in the child-rearing area. So although I speak only from personal experience, I still firmly believe that all children will respond to reason, if you reason at their level. Even children with AD(H)D or Down Syndrome, though it will take some extra effort. I don't know the whole story concerning your step-son, Tyler, but I wonder about discipline being enforced at all earlier on in his life? Because not being disciplined before the age of four or five years-old, and then suddenly having rules implemented into one's every day life, it makes it hard for the child to adjust (which often results in rebellion and acting out), and thus makes it harder on the parents as well. This is true of a child of any age, of course. Just a thought.

[Aowyn]

This is very true. Thats why I picked this study. It is very large scale, and takes many different studies over the last 62 years into account. I posted this as a reply to the earlier post about the study of a 8 children. Also, the study is not as bias as most (either way they turn out). Gershoff reports the results, but admits that spanking in some of these studies includes what we now consider abuse (as does spanking in real life overall).
"In commentary published along with the Gershoff study, George W. Holden, PhD, of the University of Texas at Austin, writes that Gershoff's findings "reflect the growing body of evidence indicating that corporal punishment does no good and may even cause harm." Holden submits that the psychological community should not be advocating spanking as a discipline tool for parents.

In a reply to Gershoff, researchers Diana Baumrind, PhD (Univ. of CA at Berkeley), Robert E. Larzelere, PhD (Nebraska Medical Center), and Philip Cowan, PhD (Univ.of CA at Berkeley), write that because the original studies in Gershoff's meta-analysis included episodes of extreme and excessive physical punishment, her finding is not an evaluation of normative corporal punishment.


In my opinion by including abuse in the study they forfeit the ability to proove anything about spanking a child. Abuse and spanking are not the same thing. Some one who spanks is not automatically an abuser. The study is admittedly flawed by including instances of abuse. The person who did the study should have known this, if they did then they are guilty of being biased if not then they come off as pretty stupid.

[Tabby]

I never understood why they suspend kids that skip school....makes no sense and doesn't fit in anyway...but when I was little i bit my mom, and she turned around and semi-gently bit be on the arm...highly effective.

punishments are much better when they fit the crime.


I agree.

[Hope3645]

In my opinion by including abuse in the study they forfeit the ability to proove anything about spanking a child. Abuse and spanking are not the same thing. Some one who spanks is not automatically an abuser. The study is admittedly flawed by including instances of abuse. The person who did the study should have known this, if they did then they are guilty of being biased if not then they come off as pretty stupid.

The person who did the study did know and admit that the study is somewhat flawed because of this. They personally are less bias than most researchers I have ran across for both sides of the issue. For a lot of people (most where I am from) abuse and spanking is the same thing. This was even more true in the past. This study was comprised of many studies over the last 62 years. With that kind of study there is no way to weed out the cases of abuse and what some today consider spanking because there was no real distinction.
Just out of curiosity, where is the line between spanking and abuse? Is it when the kid has to go to the hospital, or when they bleed, or when there are burses, or when there is a hand (or belt or brush) print left behind? Is it just about physical evidence or is it about how hard they are actually spanked? How does one measure this for sure, especially when one is very angry with the child?

My point: A lot of studies do not differentiate between abuse and spanking because a lot of people do not. Also, even people who do disagree about where the line is. I think this study is a good one for spanking as a whole because it contains all types of spanking, which is what children endure on the whole. I wish this was not so.

Also I think that there should be a study on "non-abusive" spanking (if we can ever agree on what that is). The only problem with this is that fact that most people do not really look into studies. I can just imagine some country radio DJ anounsing that spanking does not harm children (if that is the way the study came out), and Bully Bob using it to back up his bible based abuse (most pro-spankers I know say they spank based on scripture, and that they are afraid of what God would do to them if they didn't...or what evil non-Christians their children would turn out to be) of little Joey whenever (and if ever) anyone questions him.

[Ceres]

A good reply for the bible followers who think the bible tells them to use corporal punishment is that the rod in "spare the rod, spoil the child" is actually a sheperds crook, and while I imagine sheperds occasionally use them to deliver a little thump, their purpose is to guide the lambs in the right direction and pull them out of danger, not beat them with it to make them behave.

[Hope3645]

A good reply for the bible followers who think the bible tells them to use corporal punishment is that the rod in "spare the rod, spoil the child" is actually a sheperds crook, and while I imagine sheperds occasionally use them to deliver a little thump, their purpose is to guide the lambs in the right direction and pull them out of danger, not beat them with it to make them behave.

Hey, thanks! :yourock:

[rottencandy7]

my parents both spanked me when i disobeyed or disrespected. i didn't grow up being disfunctional or anything all these groups these days are saying. i think more kids these days need their ass whooped. :P (lol)

[Aowyn]

lol I know a few who would benefit from a little swat.

[MaidenMotherWitch]

I voted "In some instances". There are times when I've had to spank my daughter. Never hard just enough to get her attention. Sometimes time out doesn't work, taking away things don't work, etc. Most of the time luckily it did for me so I haven't really had to spank often. I can probably count on my hands how many times my daughter has been spanked in her whole 6 yrs of life.

[Epona44]

Once after being told dozens of time not to do something, that I continued to do, and that I'd guess was simply pure frustration on my parent's part.

:shaker:

And the other time was when I was very young and ran toward a frightened horse, nearing endangering my life. :yikes:

I think my mother was letting me know that sometimes parents DO know what they are saying.

:hmmmmm:

[Aislingraven]

I don't agree with spanking. I tried it when my oldest was little but I felt so horrid that I stopped (swatting would be a better word for it anyways).. I was spanked and being a new mum, thought that THAT was just what you did. I was also 18 and didn't know a freggin thing about being a parent.

My parenting control involves being creative, being smarter than my child (3 actually) and being hard @ss consistant. We have alot of structure and I really believe that is why my kids are so good(e.g bedtime at the same time, no being out after 9:30, dinner together every night.. ect). I am not perfect but I hold to the schedule at least 90% of the time. That and I agree with those who have said that kids are not property, they are people and we have no right to be violent with them.

I absolutley ignore bad behavior (trying to get attention in negative ways). It gets no response, fuss, goad.. nothing. I walk away. period. everytime.

Oh but I did smack my oldest about a year ago on accident. He called me... umm.. lets just say it was vulgar and REALLY nasty.. and out of reflex I smacked him. didn't leave a mark.. but he cried and cried. When my husband went to check on him he said
"You know, when mom smacked me it didn't hurt, it just shocked me!"
rofl!
So maybe it was more of a zap then smack.. he he

[Yvonne Belisle]

To me it depends on many factors, the child, the situation and what else have you tried.

[Sequoia]

Oh but I did smack my oldest about a year ago on accident. He called me... umm.. lets just say it was vulgar and REALLY nasty.. and out of reflex I smacked him. didn't leave a mark.. but he cried and cried. When my husband went to check on him he said
"You know, when mom smacked me it didn't hurt, it just shocked me!"
rofl!
So maybe it was more of a zap then smack.. he he

See, that's the core of what a lot of us are saying.

Spanking is NOT to hurt the child. You aren't "beating the fear of God into them", for heaven's sake! Sometimes it's more about getting their attention, telling them "Look, I am in charge. You did not listen, and rather than letting you run amok, I am laying down the law. Obviously everything else didn't deterr you - so listen up. Now."

It's supposed to startle them and get their attention. Not maim them.

[Aislingraven]

See, that's the core of what a lot of us are saying.

Spanking is NOT to hurt the child. You aren't "beating the fear of God into them", for heaven's sake! Sometimes it's more about getting their attention, telling them "Look, I am in charge. You did not listen, and rather than letting you run amok, I am laying down the law. Obviously everything else didn't deterr you - so listen up. Now."

It's supposed to startle them and get their attention. Not maim them.

I think also (and I am not disagreeing with you here) is that when it's done alot, the shock goes away and the parent has to get harder and harder to get the desired reaction from the child.
I get what your saying and I am sure there are many parents who are capable of doing it correctly.

[Sequoia]

I think also (and I am not disagreeing with you here) is that when it's done alot, the shock goes away and the parent has to get harder and harder to get the desired reaction from the child.
I get what your saying and I am sure there are many parents who are capable of doing it correctly.

*nods* I hear you. I mean, you aren't supposed to spank a kid EVERY TIME he disobeys you. It's just that sometimes it gets to the point of willful and knowing disobedience, and some kids just don't respond to fuzzy hug time outs and getting the game boy taken away.

[SheWolf]

Young children shouldn't be spanked. They can be disciplined by being firm with them and not cruel. I do think some rowdy teenagers should be spanked though.

[Sequoia]

Young children shouldn't be spanked. They can be disciplined by being firm with them and not cruel. I do think some rowdy teenagers should be spanked though.
It is more than possible to spank firmly, and not cruelly.

(And have you ever tried to take a teenager over your lap? Hah! :p )

[wooleybob]

It is more than possible to spank firmly, and not cruelly.

(And have you ever tried to take a teenager over your lap? Hah! :p )
Aint that the truth..:yayah:

[MoonDragn]

I dated a woman who's kids were so rotten that spanking did absolutely no good. I think teaching a kid it is ok to use force to resolve your problems isn't the answer. My parents used to make me kneel facing the wall in the living room. I tell yah sore knees sure sucked more than a smack to the bum.

[Sequoia]

I dated a woman who's kids were so rotten that spanking did absolutely no good. I think teaching a kid it is ok to use force to resolve your problems isn't the answer. My parents used to make me kneel facing the wall in the living room. I tell yah sore knees sure sucked more than a smack to the bum.
Ah, but they had you trained to listen to them and obey for your punishment in the first place, didn't they? I can just imagine trying to hold a kid in that position... :lol:

I think what's become clear in this thread is that, while parent opinions generally vary, the facts seem to indicate that some kids respond to spanks, others don't, and others rarely misbehave to the point that it's necessary at all.

[MoonDragn]

yeah well, I don't agree with some of my parent's methods either. Trained is a mild word for it. My dad used to smack me around if I didn't behave and my mom held me over the balcony once and put a cleaver to my neck.

I don't think any of it really worked that well, I think I was a bit hyper as a kid and only time fixed that. The best way to calm a kid down is to cut down on the sugar intake and wear them out.

Yes, every kid is different. You need to adjust to the personality of the child, but always be fair across all siblings or you will have worse problems.

[Amina]

Absotivaposolutely!
And they better learn the first time if they know what's best for them!

Muahaha!

:crazylaug

[Sequoia]

yeah well, I don't agree with some of my parent's methods either. Trained is a mild word for it. My dad used to smack me around if I didn't behave and my mom held me over the balcony once and put a cleaver to my neck.

o__o; yeah, I'd say that's not quite what I was thinking about when I commented. Massive :hugz: for you.

Yes, every kid is different. You need to adjust to the personality of the child, but always be fair across all siblings or you will have worse problems.
Most definately!

[misty]

Yep, I spank my son. I don't HIT him, but he gets a swat on the bum when he is being naughty.

[Marcasite]

I revived this really old thread because I'm so torn on this issue. I don't have any kids yet, heck not even thinking of having any soon but this is one of the very few issues that my fiance and I disagree on and I think you should probably talk about these things before you go about procreating.
He thinks regular spankings are just fine and dandy because that's how his mom raised him and it didn't bother him all that much. As for me, I was a very sensitive child - yelling would bring me to tears (even when it wasn't me being yelled at!) and I got regular, harsh spankings which scared me badly. My dad spanked in anger, with a wooden spoon, often for accidents that were not intentional. I think it harmed me in some ways but I don't want to get into that. Andrew's mom just spanked with a hand and not out of anger. He had no problems with that at all. He thinks he probably would have been a very bad child otherwise.
I guess it depends on the nature of the child, sensitive ones would probably respond well to other types of punishment whereas spirited ones might need an occaisional spanking. But I think it should be a last resort. I'm inclined to believe that hitting a child in anger teaches it to hit in anger. I'd rather punish with time outs, taking away privledges, having them clean up if they've made a mess, etc. Andrew disagrees.
I know I can't really know about this as I've never had any children and I could well change my mind. I just don't know what the right thing is and it troubles me that we disagree on such an important issue.

[WiccanGoddess]

I don't believe in a mother or father ever touching their kid in any negative effect. I was spanked maybe once in my younger years, and it only encouraged me to rebel further, whereas, if my mother sat me down, explained the situation's negative effect, I learned, accepted, moved on. I think it should be just as easy with any child. My mom, after slapping me once has never touched me again in any matter but positive. I, and she, alike, feel that spanking encourages instead of discourages.

[Seren_]

I'm in two minds on the issue.

I only remember being spanked once or twice as a child and on one occasion it's because my mum had a friend round and I kept saying I needed the toilet but my mum didn't want to be interrupted and kept shushing me. I was too little to open the door and go upstairs myself. Suffice it to say I didn't make it to the toilet and then kept hassling my mum because I'd soiled myself. So I got a smack because I didn't do as she'd asked. And then she realised why I'd been hassling her and had a go at me even more for not speaking up! I was probably about four or five at the most. I really only remember it because of the 'injustice' of it. My dad never spanked me or my sister - that I can remember. He had The Voice, which was more terrifying than anything our mother could come up with. She shouted all the time, so we never took much notice of her.

On the one hand I think spanking can be an effective form of discipline - if used sparingly, never in anger, and never to the point where the child is hit rather than lightly tapped.

But then again it depends on the child. It's only effective on very young children because as they get older kids realise that it's not so bad having your hand or bum tapped. So really other forms of punishment could be just as effective and less of a risk of things getting out of control - smacking in anger.

Discipline - to me - is about setting boundaries and acceptable terms of behaviour for a child. If they step out of those bounds they see there's a consequence, and one that's not in their favour. A lot of the time I see kids playing up in the supermarket or whatever, and I hear someone say "That child needs a good smack." Not necessarily. They need boundaries.

So really I wonder if smacking is necessary because something like the naughty step or other form of time out could be just as effective, if not more so because more than anything if a kid gets into the cycle of misbehaving for attention - any attention - spanking fulfils that desire. No attention is bad attention.

Also, if spanking is overused as a form of discipline all it teaches a child is that hitting is an acceptable thing. So I guess I'm more against it than for it. But I have to say I wouldn't rule out never doing it. My husband and I have both agreed it's not something that should be used regularly, but if something really bad happens that requires something more than the usual form of discipline, it's something we'd consider.

[halfwaynowhere]

i think used sparingly, as a last resort, it might be okay. i don't think i'll be able to make that decision for certain until i have children of my own. my parents were firm believers in using a wooden spoon, wooden paddle, or belt. i remember it all too well, and it didn't do any good. we aren't perfect little angels, we are still defiant brats, lol. because after awhile, we knew that the pain went away, it really wasn't that bad. my parents raised us to speak our minds, and punished us for it at the same time. but we turned out alrig