How 21st century are you and ....

[megandawn]

how much of it do you feel compromises your beliefs if at all? I ask because I have been taking a good hard look at our lives lately. We live in suburbia and it is really easy to get caught up in what everyone else is doing. I made two big changes in our lives that I feel are for the better and to purify and simplify our lives. One was that we stopped eating any foods that contained artificial anything and additives and preservitives. I have to drive further to the a store that has these kinds of foods but I think it has been worth it. The kids have found it difficult having no more sugary, cartoon cereals and I have been told that Chetoos just aren't the same without the preservitives. I also canceled our cable t.v.. I thought my kids would about die of shock but they have adjusted really well and have found better ways of spending their time. I truely feel that both of these decisions had a direct correlation on our relgious growth. I guess it is a queston of personal convictions and how strongly you feel about them. Do you think you can shop at the Gap, eat at Mcdonalds, fall hook, line and sinker for every new reality show that comes on and still be true to the craft or do you feel that this is the best part of our religion and that there isn't one path and it is all accepting?

How much of todays lifestyle can you take advantage of and still consider yourself and family pure in your beliefs? Does anyone feel like the two have nothing to do with each other? I just want to say that I don't judge either way and I know that what it right for our family might not be for someone elses. I am just very curious.

[Chesna]

You know I never thought about it.. but I believe you can live in today's world,with the TV and such and still be true. I sometimes get my inspiration to do something by watching tv.. I think whats important is not to be consumed by it.. to have balance in your life. Balance and harmony are a big thing if your Wiccan. So as long as you don't neglect one for the other your ok.
but this is just my humble opinion.

[mothwench]

how much of it do you feel compromises your beliefs if at all?
:lol: just last night i found myself thinking that it would be ever so cool if cars had never been invented so we could just ride horses or use carts and wagons to go places. i wonder if there are laws against riding horses on the streets here. wouldn't surprise me if there were, but even if there weren't, i'd fear for the horses safety with all the cars around. weird huh?

I made two big changes in our lives that I feel are for the better and to purify and simplify our lives. One was that we stopped eating any foods that contained artificial anything and additives and preservitives. I have to drive further to the a store that has these kinds of foods but I think it has been worth it.
okay, i agree with purify. simplify... no. and that's the insane thing about it! the extremes you have to go to get simple things left as they are is incredible! i pay three times as much for my facial wash because it contains no perfume. are you getting this, i'm actually paying three times the normal price for a lack of something. :wtf:
I guess it is a queston of personal convictions and how strongly you feel about them.
i feel very strong about them. it's my new dilema. :toofless:
Do you think you can shop at the Gap
no, but then i was never like that.
eat at Mcdonalds,
as a rule, no. if i'm hungry and it's on the way and i'm too tired to fix something, i'll go there cause it's cheap, and i'm poor. but i'll feel very guilty about it afterwards. :twitch:
fall hook, line and sinker for every new reality show that comes on
definatly not! :lol: tv is bs anyway.
and still be true to the craft
generally, i think it depends what "craft". are you referring to wicca? i daresay it would be possible to do all those things. i'm a reconstructionist, and that's about as bad as it can get in terms of compatibility with the 21st century... or do you feel that this is the best part of our religion and that there isn't one path and it is all accepting?
:foh: i don't think i understood that bit. anyway... excellent topic. :uhhuhuh:
i've been thinking about this for the last couple of days. and on another forum i started a thread asking about bio-regionalism and what it entails. i got a link to an interesting article i can just pass on to you: http://www.sustainable-city.org/intervws/berg.htm this one's in english, all the other info i have is in german, unfortunately.

so yeah, this sounds like a cool thing for me. over here bio-regionalism seems to be closely linked to asatru, and that's how i stumbled across it. i personally would describe it as the perfect economical and ecological system for reconstructionists, but don't take my word for it, i'm still too new at this.

also, i'm faced with making a decision soon, career-wise. i think one of my top priorities is finding a job that is in tune with my the bio region i live in.

but there is one thing, that really seems to get to me. the internet. i love mystic wicks and i love the fact that i can just google anything and know about it within just a couple of minutes. i also love the fact that all kinds of people from all over the world can converse here about paganism. that situation itself is simply devine. however, it also heavily contradicts my anti-global attitude towards the economy and also towards culture. then someone on the other board posted a quote from some guy he couldn't remember: think global, act local. kind of made sense to me, but i'm still a little peeved and on the fence about this whole i-use-the-internet-but-i-hate-technology-thing.


ps: who painted the picture in your sig? :kooky:

[Amethyst Rose]

how much of it do you feel compromises your beliefs if at all?


How much does modern society compromise my beliefs? It doesn't. My beliefs were invented IN modern society. My religion is only 50 years old.

I live in a very small town 2000 people, tops, and have one vehicle. There is one grocery store in town that have very limited selection and exhorbant prices. I don't care about preservatives in my food, or if it's organic or what not. We have a 6 foot wide tv screen and digital cable. The fact that I watch tv has even less to do with my beliefs than what I eat. It doesn't inhibit my ability to worship.


I guess it is a queston of personal convictions and how strongly you feel about them. Do you think you can shop at the Gap, eat at Mcdonalds, fall hook, line and sinker for every new reality show that comes on and still be true to the craft or do you feel that this is the best part of our religion and that there isn't one path and it is all accepting?

I feel very strongly about my personal convictions... I will fight to protect them. I don't think that where you shop, eat or what you watch has anything to do with religious practices. Not a single t hing. I could have a ritual in McDonalds and it still wouldn't make a difference. The important thing is that I commune with the goddess and recognize the holidays. And no, no there isn't just one path.


How much of todays lifestyle can you take advantage of and still consider yourself and family pure in your beliefs? Does anyone feel like the two have nothing to do with each other? I just want to say that I don't judge either way and I know that what it right for our family might not be for someone elses. I am just very curious.

My beliefs are pure. Again, no amount of tv I watch is going to change that. It's in my heart and my soul. Obviously, I don't think that the two have anything to do with each other.

[megandawn]

Thanks for the relpies everyone. Its not that I am looking for one answer but I guess just trying to see what peoples thoughts are. Very interesting so far!

BTW ~ The painting is by John William Waterhouse. He is my fav!

[Ceres]

I have gone the little tv, no junk foods, all whole grain oragnic foods, rejection of consumerism route before. I didnt really mind it, but it was as limiting IMO as being completely materialistic and entrenched in north american values without a second thought.
I realized that these children I am raising need to live in what amounts to that "entrenched in North American values" world once they leave home and I didnt want them, or myself to feel totally disconnected from the culture we live in right now. We have since found more of an equilibrium.

There is some value to tv, as well as some mindless entertainment too - and thats OK, as long as it doesnt consume your days. Likewise the internet. Food is now about pleasure for me and quite frankly, eating at Mcdonalds is no pleasure! I love to cook but I also love coffee and chocolate and white bread every now and then, and dammit I will have it ;) I try to show my kids what consumerism is about and to think about why they want things that can be bought. I feel I battle my own demons in this regard, but they are going to have to take their weekly allowance and learn to wage their own battle as best they can with what information they gain about these consumer goods and money in general.
In short, I think moving toward a more balanced life in reducing these things our culture obsesses on is a good thing, I also believe that totally eschewing them is needlessly limiting and isolating.

[megandawn]

Very well said! I agree with you also and had never really looked at it from that point of view. I don't think anything short of moving to a totally deserted island and homeschooling them could keep them from American culture. I guess I just think that I need to stand up for what is important to me and let them see by example what those things are and let them make their own decisions (which they will do anyways) later. I don' t think it would help them much if I claimed to care about the Earth but then lived wasteful. I think a strong set of convictions...whatever those convictions be will get them far.

[Athena-Nadine]

*...shrugs...* I am a child of New York City, of the United States, of the 20th/21st Centuries, and an adult of Colorado. I am of computers and video games and the Internet and SUVs and hiking boots and sailboats and mountain trails and ski lifts and modern technology. Yes, sometimes I will shop at the Gap if they have something I like. I also shop at Limited, Express, Ann Taylor, Ann Taylor Loft, Banana Republic, DKNY, Armani Exchange, Steve Madden, Nine West, etc. *...shrugs...* I like the clothes. Occasionally, I eat McDonalds, but not very often--less than once a month--because I don't care for it very much. My husband and I do eat out at restaurants at least 3 times a week, though not fast food. I hate "reality" TV. It's stupid and I don't understand how anyone can watch it. But that's just me.

I am also a child of my gods. I do what I can to help my community, my family and friends. I worship my gods and live by Their tenets. They do not require me to move backwards or live apart from the world. My religious beliefs are pure and my gods are not unhappy with me.

My husband follows his own beliefs. My children will follow whatever beliefs about the nature of Divinity that they feel most appropriate.

[frigga]

IMHO, I personally feel that the way you eat and spend your time has nothing to do with many religions--unless you put it in terms of fasting or what not, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I can see how it how it may inhance certain values--such as valuing what you have verses what you don't, and that can enhance religious beliefs. But I think that diet and less TV don't really contribute to a more spiritually fulfilling life; the divine is there none-the-less.

[Amethyst Rose]

Exactly. :)

[Ceres]

I think religion does dictate how you spend your time. Ritual is done to be close to god, but if you arent trying to be closer to god in your mundane life, it wont mean much. If you believe in freedom and equality for all people because they are free and equal in the eyes of god but buy goods made by child labour in third world countries, it doesnt mean much. If you believe that god is manifest in nature and then dont try to live lightly on the earth, it doesnt mean much. If you believe everyone is an incarnation of god, but dont try to show respect to your fellow humans, it doesnt mean much. I think how far you go to live your life in ways that are in harmony with your spiritual beliefs is an indicator of how serious you take your religion. There is nothing wrong with being where you are....so long as you are moving foreward.

[Amethyst Rose]

My religion, my spirituality, my love and devotion to The One (my beliefs are that the god and goddess are simply female and male sides of one divine energy) are deeply imbedded in my heart and my soul.

I get closer to The One by taking joy in creation...welcoming the sun in the morning, kissing my hand to the moon at night....loving the feel of the wind on my face...etc. But it doesn't require elaborate ritual or prayer.

I believe that freedom and equality is a socio-economical state, and best left to the political forum. However, yes I do believe that all *should* be equal and free. I also realize, however, that according to my beliefs, we are all born into the circumstances we are in order to learn a lesson to enlighten our souls. As such, those people are where their souls wanted to be. Morally, however, I won't buy something that I know is manufactured by children... but at the same time, i don't reseach everything I buy in advance to make sure it's not.

My god is manifest in nature, and I do try to live lightly on the land. I walk everywhere, recycle when I can, conserve water, conserve electricity. However, I am also an omnivore and eat meat and plants, because I believe that that is what is intended for us.

I show respect to my fellow humans. That has nothing at all to do with religion... that's just common sense, IMO.

In fact, all but the first point of this is common sense, and I think that any one even slightly enlightened on the state of the world today, would act the same way I do, even Athiests. Religion really doesn't come into it at all.

I don't see how watching TV or eating at McDonalds fits anywhere into any of this, really.

[Jenne]

IMHO, I personally feel that the way you eat and spend your time has nothing to do with many religions--unless you put it in terms of fasting or what not, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I can see how it how it may inhance certain values--such as valuing what you have verses what you don't, and that can enhance religious beliefs. But I think that diet and less TV don't really contribute to a more spiritually fulfilling life; the divine is there none-the-less.
Same goes here. I mean, I try very hard to pare down what we don't need, try to read more watch less, etc. But when it comes down to it, to me, balance and sanity in walking my path are more important.

[Ceres]

My religion, my spirituality, my love and devotion to The One (my beliefs are that the god and goddess are simply female and male sides of one divine energy) are deeply imbedded in my heart and my soul.

I get closer to The One by taking joy in creation...welcoming the sun in the morning, kissing my hand to the moon at night....loving the feel of the wind on my face...etc. But it doesn't require elaborate ritual or prayer.

I believe that freedom and equality is a socio-economical state, and best left to the political forum. However, yes I do believe that all *should* be equal and free. I also realize, however, that according to my beliefs, we are all born into the circumstances we are in order to learn a lesson to enlighten our souls. As such, those people are where their souls wanted to be. Morally, however, I won't buy something that I know is manufactured by children... but at the same time, i don't reseach everything I buy in advance to make sure it's not.

My god is manifest in nature, and I do try to live lightly on the land. I walk everywhere, recycle when I can, conserve water, conserve electricity. However, I am also an omnivore and eat meat and plants, because I believe that that is what is intended for us.

I show respect to my fellow humans. That has nothing at all to do with religion... that's just common sense, IMO.

In fact, all but the first point of this is common sense, and I think that any one even slightly enlightened on the state of the world today, would act the same way I do, even Athiests. Religion really doesn't come into it at all.

I don't see how watching TV or eating at McDonalds fits anywhere into any of this, really.

McDs uses the very cheapest ingredients, which usually means cows that have been raised in a small box from birth and so didnt really live life at all. Encouraging this sort of farming by buying the products of it disrespects life in the form of the animals used as well as defying the truth of the principle that what we put in our bodies ties us to the land and therefore god. The toys in happy meals alone are a terrible drain on landfulls, never mind all the packaging. Its not a direct link to spirituality, but one of those things that if you think about, really is connected.
Television is even more abstract and subtle. The messages we get from watching the shows as well as the ads compel us to embrace a culture of consumerism. The problems with consumerism are far too complex to delve into on a message board, but it boils down to our very rich lifestyle being enjoyed at the cost of poorer nations. Spiritually, I think as richer societies, we have an obligation to not only share our wealth, but also not to set an example of material wealth as life's goal. Consumerism doesnt sit lightly on the earth either; it uses lots of resources and leaves a mess. The other values garnered from television arent that great either. The people are all beautiful, they are rarely old, never handicapped, and most problems are solved in either 30 or 60 minutes.

I am not arguing we should never eat at McDs or watch tv....but I do think they are spiritual matters.

[Amethyst Rose]

Well, you know.... those things maybe be important in your path, but they mean nothing in mine. I really don't care about those things. That doesn't mean I'm not serious about my religion or my beliefs. It means that my beliefs don't require such extremes of me. All they require is that I love the universe with my whole heart. It's my heart that matters, not my actions, or lack of actions.

Takes all types....

[Ceres]

To each his own... :) Perhaps I worded the part earlier about taking one's faith seriously and these matters in an extreme manner. I didnt mean to imply you CANT take your faith seriously unless these particular things are important to you, but that taking your faith seriously means living it even when it means making choices that on a surface level you would rather not. Sometimes our conscience must take precedence over our pleasures.

[frigga]

To each his own... :) Perhaps I worded the part earlier about taking one's faith seriously and these matters in an extreme manner. I didnt mean to imply you CANT take your faith seriously unless these particular things are important to you, but that taking your faith seriously means living it even when it means making choices that on a surface level you would rather not. Sometimes our conscience must take precedence over our pleasures.
I see what your saying, but I do think it all depends on what path you walk. For a traditionalist Budhist, diet and TV do mean a lot pertaining to thier faith, and where it comes from and what it represents. To a modern-day "pagan' (term used very loosely here peoples), I don't think it really interfiers with ones spirituality, but it may come into play in determining whether or not they act out their convictions and moral beliefs.

[fahawk]

This is a great topic to think about..I often feel the "odd" person out..I do not care so much about "material" things..it seems so many people my family knows are forever buying or purchasing the next "new' thing..new cars, new appliances, new this and that..while the "old" one still works perfectly fine..

We are bombarded daily with flyers, ads..to be better, buy this to improve our lives, or buy that..

Just trying to keep up- make enough to keep up with the "Jones", could make a person nuts.

I grew up in the country, and still live in the same area..and everything has changed so much..
it is hard at times..to see the devolopement- even though it is a fact of life..

We just went to visit friends in Fort Myers, Fl. ( they have lived there 20+ years) and it is soooo changed now..farm land gone..the back yard at their home was once a feild with woods beyond..and it is now huge buildings..
condos near the ocean that go for over $2 million..boat docks for $180,000.

anyway..I guess it is sad...I mean couldnt we all live simplier..and still have "enough" and still be comfortable and happy.

We have a garden, can and freeze the food, homeschool..try to make wise choices, but it is hard

[Ceres]

I see what your saying, but I do think it all depends on what path you walk. For a traditionalist Budhist, diet and TV do mean a lot pertaining to thier faith, and where it comes from and what it represents. To a modern-day "pagan' (term used very loosely here peoples), I don't think it really interfiers with ones spirituality, but it may come into play in determining whether or not they act out their convictions and moral beliefs.

Ye Gods! Maybe I am really a closet Buddhist? :)

I do think that acting out convictions and moral beliefs means thinking through where things come from and what they represent. I have always seen paganism as a system heavily entrenched in symbolism and so thought this sort of connection was natural.

[frigga]

Ye Gods! Maybe I am really a closet Buddhist? :)

I do think that acting out convictions and moral beliefs means thinking through where things come from and what they represent. I have always seen paganism as a system heavily entrenched in symbolism and so thought this sort of connection was natural.
I'm a pantheist and almost everything I do is centered around the earth and it's preservation along with the preservation of all life in general. I've gotten quite a few nasty looks from some pagan friends at times when I drilled into them about how they didn't recycle, garden, and how oblivious they were as to what was being done in order to create the things they wore, ate, etc. I actually went as far once to say "how can you call yourself pagan"? :gagged: Then a close friend sat me down calmly and explained that I was getting my personal beliefs and ethics mixed up with their religion and that although they were part of an earth based religion, they didn't feel as though they needed to do everything I so heavily believed, in order to justify and realize their faith; the two weren't so intertwined with them.
Needless to say I learned my lesson, and though I may not always agree with it, I understand where their coming from.

[Rhianna813]

For me I would have to say that some of my lifestyle choices help lead me to Paganism as opposed to my spritiual beliefs setting the tone for my lifestyle. I grew up and live in a very liberal progressive west coast town. Lot's of vegetarian, organic, free range food options. Very bike friendly, health minded, and environmentally aware. Some people live an average lifestyle, they eat at Macdonalds, watch a lot of TV, but recycle. Others are more hardcore in live with no TV, computer, car, or many possessions.

I am in the middle for my demographic. I lived for many years without a car (just bought mine 2 years ago) and rode my bike everywhere. I eat vegetarian so rarely go to fast food places. I compost my food and recycle/reuse what I can and we cloth diaper the babe. I buy at local farmers markets and organic when I can afford it but usually can not. But I eat tons of sugary snacks and watch way too much TV. These are my biggest vices.... and I see them as such.

When I found the Pagan path and it's honor of the earth, all it's elements and creatures I saw that this fit some of the ideals I already acknowledged. It also further strengthened my ideals, perhaps gave them more purpose beyond simple "lifestyle choices". My goal is to live with awareness I guess. To see the ways I use the material objects afforded to me and if they are truely benefiting my life and journey.

Rhianna

[moonchild]

ok, i'm going to try to do this quickly, and maybe i'll have more to add later.

i still consider myself early in my path, altho things that i am drawn to now are merrily things that i was taught young. as i become closer to being a mom i find myself wanting to do more providing, i.e. having a productive garden, maybe canning, making things from scratch. BUT i'm in a different place than i was even 3 yrs ago. i have a house with a backyard that i CAN garden in as oppose to the cement that was outside my apartment years ago. I do feel that i am closer to the devine when i am doing these things, but i am also happier. if i'm happier does that mean that i'm closer to the divine? yup, i still do go to Mcdonalds occasionally, sometimes more than i elect due to my job, and I'm an TV and Computer junkie. but i try. I try to grow some of my own food, get organic if i can, and its not too much more expensive, make my own things (sewing, cooking), dry my herbs in hopes of learning to use them one day. I don't compost because I'm too close to my neighbors (they'll gripe) but i miss that when we use to do that at my parents house.

In reality i have to live in the mundane life to survive. I have to carry a full time job, even after i give birth. my dh has to also, so daycare *shiver* is inevitable. there's trash pickup on thursdays and fuel to keep us warm and fed that comes to us. we both carry jobs, not to keep up with the joneses, but to pay the bills. i couldn't care less what cars they have, i learned quick that there is no way that i can compete. my school loans could buy a high end jag for gods sake!!! but i do what i love. and i do what i can. the kids that i work with i try to not let them get MCd's when we are out, we'll go to the grocery store instead and get a better snack.

ok i've kinda lost sight of where i was going, hehe! I guess my general point is that it matters more to me that one tries then anything else. like Magic, its in the intent for me.

but thank you for giving me something to think about today!

MC