My drug use

[Kyra Kismet]

Every time I mention that I happen to smoke cannabis here I seem to get shot down.
Over 70 million people have tried marijuana; most marijuana users never use any other illegal drug. Indeed, for the vast majority of people, marijuana is the last drug they try, not a "gateway" to other drugs. If it were a gateway drug and if it were so addictive, there would be more than 3 million heroin and cocaine addicts in the U.S.
Marijuana produces immediate, temporary changes in thoughts, perceptions, and information processing. The cognitive process most clearly affected by marijuana is short-term memory. In laboratory studies, subjects under the influence of marijuana have no trouble remembering things they learned previously. However, they display diminished capacity to learn and recall new information. This diminishment only lasts for the duration of intoxication.
The most common (and desired) effects are talkativeness, cheerfulness, relaxation and greater appreciation of sound and colour. Cannabis users frequently report perceiving an enhanced performance for tasks involving creativity (art, music etc.), although no scientific evidence indicates that the drug improves hearing, eyesight or skin sensitivity. Many users also experience a compulsion for binge eating (known as the 'munchies').
Every serious scholar and government commission examining the relationship between marijuana use and crime has reached the same conclusion: Marijuana does not cause crime. The vast majority of marijuana users do not commit crimes. Almost all human and animal studies show that marijuana decreases aggression. There is no lethal dose of marijuana.
Not all the effects of the drug are pleasant. High doses can cause mild hallucinations and sensory distortions which could be disconcerting if unexpected. Those who use the drug when anxious or depressed may find these conditions exaggerated and the user can become more self obsessed with his or her problem. Mild panic and paranoia could then result. Nausea and vomiting can occur when an inexperienced user tries too much at once; this is far more likely if Cannabis has been used with alcohol. However you cannot die from "binge smoking" like you can from binge drinking. 90% of kids who try marijuana don't go on to use other drugs, and do not continue to use marijuana. Smoking Cannabis produces fairly instant intoxication, the effects lasting from 1 to 4 hours depending on the amount used. Fatalities from Cannabis use are unknown, and the 'morning after the night before' effect is far less profound than that produced by alcohol, no headaches or nausea, more of a slightly woolly-headed abstract feeling.
The positive effects of Cannabis as an effective reliever of the symptoms of multiple sclerosis, hypoglycaemia and, in certain instances, as a medication for the terminally ill have become topical again recently. It is important to remember that Cannabis has been used medically world-wide for centuries, and in this country it was legally prescribed up until 1928, however many people still use it illegally as an effective medicine. In fact Queen Victoria used it to alleviate period pains. However, some women may find that heavy Cannabis use can make their periods irregular, whilst Cannabis smoked with tobacco during pregnancy produces the same risks to the mother and child as smoking cigarettes.
Positive effects are claimed for ailments such as cancer, AIDS, and glaucoma. AIDS can cause a loss of appetite known as the "wasting syndrome" which can lead to drastic weight loss and
weakness. Chemotherapy used in the treatment of cancer causes nausea resulting
in an inability to keep down food. Marijuana's healing nature for these two illnesses
is a result of it's ability to increase a person's appetite as well as relieving nausea
allowing a patient to regain weight. Marijuana reportedly helps glaucoma patients
by reducing occular pressure which can cause damage to the eye.
My reason for smoking cannabis is not because it makes me look ‘cool’ or that my friends have forced me into it, members of my family who smoke it kept it hidden from me until I came to them to tell them I smoked it. The reason is I prefer my behavior when I am ‘high’. Cannabis rarely effects me as bad as most, rather than munchies I become quieter and more thoughtful, I have been described in the past has hyperactive, but when smoking or eating the drug I become ‘normal’ to the outsiders eyes.
This is not a rant, but an explanation, so that when people ask me why I can send them here.
Thanks for reading!

[Mindflayer]

Do what you wish...just be responsible.

I've admitted to my drug use here before, I have done my fair share of various chemicals (Weed, Ecstacy, Vicoden) just to name a few.

My response is always the same, there is a difference between those who use drugs, and those who ABuse them. When any drug becomes a way to escape from the problems in your life, THAT is when you have a problem... To me (and my friends) they are nothing more than a recreational activity...like watching a movie, or bowling.

Video Games are my escape...not drugs.


Oh and weed is not -THE- gateway drug...that title belongs to, and will always belong to, Alchohol

[Kyra Kismet]

I agree with you, my attitude is the same and the dealer I get it from is practically family!

[PoisonIvy]

I use to smoke a quarter bag a day by myself until I got some that was laced. I have also done other drugs which I care not to discuss,but if you wanna smoke it...go on with your bad self! If my work didn't threaten us with drug tests all the time,I'd prolly be smokin' one right now who knows.Everyone is entitled to make their own choices in life. But I will say that I have no memory anymore. :toofless: I wonder how that happened? :devil:

[Faerin]

Kyra,
I have seen people abuse just about anything...alcohol, food, sex, pot, speed, soft drinks...anything can be harmful to your health if you let it control your life and affect your well being. It is your decision what you do with your life. Everyone is going to have an opinion but as long as you feel that you are not harming yourself and no one around you feels like they are being affected negatively by your actions then you just go right ahead and do what is best for you.
I have rarely seen anyone become aggressive and abusive because they "smoked a bowl" the same way people who abuse alchohol can become...and of course alcohol is legal. I think if pot were to become legal it wouldn't be so taboo.

[Kyra Kismet]

I think that becase there are medical facts that alchol can kill you, that is should be illegal, cannabis has none of these facts.

[StormVixen]

Every time I mention that I happen to smoke cannabis here I seem to get shot down.
Over 70 million people have tried marijuana; most marijuana users never use any other illegal drug. Indeed, for the vast majority of people, marijuana is the last drug they try, not a "gateway" to other drugs. If it were a gateway drug and if it were so addictive, there would be more than 3 million heroin and cocaine addicts in the U.S.
Marijuana produces immediate, temporary changes in thoughts, perceptions, and information processing. The cognitive process most clearly affected by marijuana is short-term memory. In laboratory studies, subjects under the influence of marijuana have no trouble remembering things they learned previously. However, they display diminished capacity to learn and recall new information. This diminishment only lasts for the duration of intoxication.
The most common (and desired) effects are talkativeness, cheerfulness, relaxation and greater appreciation of sound and colour. Cannabis users frequently report perceiving an enhanced performance for tasks involving creativity (art, music etc.), although no scientific evidence indicates that the drug improves hearing, eyesight or skin sensitivity. Many users also experience a compulsion for binge eating (known as the 'munchies').
Every serious scholar and government commission examining the relationship between marijuana use and crime has reached the same conclusion: Marijuana does not cause crime. The vast majority of marijuana users do not commit crimes. Almost all human and animal studies show that marijuana decreases aggression. There is no lethal dose of marijuana.
Not all the effects of the drug are pleasant. High doses can cause mild hallucinations and sensory distortions which could be disconcerting if unexpected. Those who use the drug when anxious or depressed may find these conditions exaggerated and the user can become more self obsessed with his or her problem. Mild panic and paranoia could then result. Nausea and vomiting can occur when an inexperienced user tries too much at once; this is far more likely if Cannabis has been used with alcohol. However you cannot die from "binge smoking" like you can from binge drinking. 90% of kids who try marijuana don't go on to use other drugs, and do not continue to use marijuana. Smoking Cannabis produces fairly instant intoxication, the effects lasting from 1 to 4 hours depending on the amount used. Fatalities from Cannabis use are unknown, and the 'morning after the night before' effect is far less profound than that produced by alcohol, no headaches or nausea, more of a slightly woolly-headed abstract feeling.
The positive effects of Cannabis as an effective reliever of the symptoms of multiple sclerosis, hypoglycaemia and, in certain instances, as a medication for the terminally ill have become topical again recently. It is important to remember that Cannabis has been used medically world-wide for centuries, and in this country it was legally prescribed up until 1928, however many people still use it illegally as an effective medicine. In fact Queen Victoria used it to alleviate period pains. However, some women may find that heavy Cannabis use can make their periods irregular, whilst Cannabis smoked with tobacco during pregnancy produces the same risks to the mother and child as smoking cigarettes.
Positive effects are claimed for ailments such as cancer, AIDS, and glaucoma. AIDS can cause a loss of appetite known as the "wasting syndrome" which can lead to drastic weight loss and
weakness. Chemotherapy used in the treatment of cancer causes nausea resulting
in an inability to keep down food. Marijuana's healing nature for these two illnesses
is a result of it's ability to increase a person's appetite as well as relieving nausea
allowing a patient to regain weight. Marijuana reportedly helps glaucoma patients
by reducing occular pressure which can cause damage to the eye.
My reason for smoking cannabis is not because it makes me look ‘cool’ or that my friends have forced me into it, members of my family who smoke it kept it hidden from me until I came to them to tell them I smoked it. The reason is I prefer my behavior when I am ‘high’. Cannabis rarely effects me as bad as most, rather than munchies I become quieter and more thoughtful, I have been described in the past has hyperactive, but when smoking or eating the drug I become ‘normal’ to the outsiders eyes.
This is not a rant, but an explanation, so that when people ask me why I can send them here.
Thanks for reading!

damn right!

go kyra go kyra go kyra _happydanc

:crazyman:

[Kyra Kismet]

**bows** thankyou!

[Gwenhwyfar]

I think that becase there are medical facts that alchol can kill you, that is should be illegal, cannabis has none of these facts.
Actually, pot has many of the same(possibly worse) medical effects as smoking tobacco...so lung cancers not a good thing....dont get me wrong, I smoke like a half bag of weed everyday...but I wont stick up for it either, or make excuses. Drugs are bad, any kind...there a way to escape reality, and thats also bad...I want to cut back big time on my pot use, Im quitting smoking right now so no more weed is next on my list of healthy choices.

I do agree that its not a gateway drug for alot people though...I know SO MANY people who smoke pot and nothing els.

[Chesna]

f you want to do what you do, fine. Hopefully your an adult and understand the pontential consequences. However I do have 2 things to say:
1) Please site your references in your stats.. who reported them could color the results, plus it gives others a chance to interpret for themselves.
2) I do not believe that this was/is the place for such a post. We have young teens on this site who need to see healthy adults make life affirming choices. In a world where many of us are in pain or are lost, seeing something like this DOES not help. This may of been more appropriate in the adults only portion. If you didn't have access..then maybe this wasn't appropriate here at all.

Chesna

[Gwenhwyfar]

f you want to do what you do, fine. Hopefully your an adult and understand the pontential consequences. However I do have 2 things to say:
1) Please site your references in your stats.. who reported them could color the results, plus it gives others a chance to interpret for themselves.
2) I do not believe that this was/is the place for such a post. We have young teens on this site who need to see healthy adults make life affirming choices. In a world where many of us are in pain or are lost, seeing something like this DOES not help. This may of been more appropriate in the adults only portion. If you didn't have access..then maybe this wasn't appropriate here at all.

Chesna
directed at number 2: I definatly wouldnt go that far....whats good for some is bad for others, to each their own, and all that ya know....its no worse than the faces of Meth thread...or the predjudices thread...its something she wanted to talk about and I think she has every right.

[Mindflayer]

...their a way to escape reality, and thats also bad...

Not for everyone...


Also as for the facts and where to find them, try www.erowid.org (http://www.erowid.org)

[mothwench]

Every time I mention that I happen to smoke cannabis here I seem to get shot down.
then don't mention it. why would you want to anyway? :huh:

Over 70 million people have tried marijuana; most marijuana users never use any other illegal drug. Indeed, for the vast majority of people, marijuana is the last drug they try, not a "gateway" to other drugs. If it were a gateway drug and if it were so addictive, there would be more than 3 million heroin and cocaine addicts in the U.S.
if you look at it from the point of view that you have to converse in criminal circles to acquire it, and that those dealers might also deal other drugs, it's a valid arguement. precisely that is one of the best reasons why cannabis should be legalised, so that the few instances in which it is a gateway drug can be iliminated.

Marijuana produces immediate, temporary changes in thoughts, perceptions, and information processing. The cognitive process most clearly affected by marijuana is short-term memory. In laboratory studies, subjects under the influence of marijuana have no trouble remembering things they learned previously. However, they display diminished capacity to learn and recall new information. This diminishment only lasts for the duration of intoxication.
no arguement here.

The most common (and desired) effects are talkativeness, cheerfulness, relaxation and greater appreciation of sound and colour. Cannabis users frequently report perceiving an enhanced performance for tasks involving creativity (art, music etc.), although no scientific evidence indicates that the drug improves hearing, eyesight or skin sensitivity. Many users also experience a compulsion for binge eating (known as the 'munchies').
Every serious scholar and government commission examining the relationship between marijuana use and crime has reached the same conclusion: Marijuana does not cause crime. The vast majority of marijuana users do not commit crimes. Almost all human and animal studies show that marijuana decreases aggression. There is no lethal dose of marijuana.
about that crime and aggression thing... the opposition is going to turn around and say that most if not all of the inmates in your country's prisons are cannabis users. and i hate to say it, but i'd believe them, simply cause it's just become so common to smoke it.
of course, in comparison with alcohol, the aggression factor in cannabis use is virtually non-existant.


Not all the effects of the drug are pleasant. High doses can cause mild hallucinations and sensory distortions which could be disconcerting if unexpected. Those who use the drug when anxious or depressed may find these conditions exaggerated and the user can become more self obsessed with his or her problem. Mild panic and paranoia could then result. Nausea and vomiting can occur when an inexperienced user tries too much at once; this is far more likely if Cannabis has been used with alcohol. However you cannot die from "binge smoking" like you can from binge drinking. 90% of kids who try marijuana don't go on to use other drugs, and do not continue to use marijuana.
where'd you get that figure from?

Smoking Cannabis produces fairly instant intoxication, the effects lasting from 1 to 4 hours depending on the amount used. Fatalities from Cannabis use are unknown, and the 'morning after the night before' effect is far less profound than that produced by alcohol, no headaches or nausea, more of a slightly woolly-headed abstract feeling.
The positive effects of Cannabis as an effective reliever of the symptoms of multiple sclerosis, hypoglycaemia and, in certain instances, as a medication for the terminally ill have become topical again recently. It is important to remember that Cannabis has been used medically world-wide for centuries, and in this country it was legally prescribed up until 1928, however many people still use it illegally as an effective medicine. In fact Queen Victoria used it to alleviate period pains. However, some women may find that heavy Cannabis use can make their periods irregular, whilst Cannabis smoked with tobacco during pregnancy produces the same risks to the mother and child as smoking cigarettes.
Positive effects are claimed for ailments such as cancer, AIDS, and glaucoma. AIDS can cause a loss of appetite known as the "wasting syndrome" which can lead to drastic weight loss and
weakness. Chemotherapy used in the treatment of cancer causes nausea resulting
in an inability to keep down food. Marijuana's healing nature for these two illnesses
is a result of it's ability to increase a person's appetite as well as relieving nausea
allowing a patient to regain weight. Marijuana reportedly helps glaucoma patients
by reducing occular pressure which can cause damage to the eye.
My reason for smoking cannabis is not because it makes me look ‘cool’ or that my friends have forced me into it, members of my family who smoke it kept it hidden from me until I came to them to tell them I smoked it. The reason is I prefer my behavior when I am ‘high’. Cannabis rarely effects me as bad as most, rather than munchies I become quieter and more thoughtful, I have been described in the past has hyperactive, but when smoking or eating the drug I become ‘normal’ to the outsiders eyes.
This is not a rant, but an explanation, so that when people ask me why I can send them here.
Thanks for reading!

:smile: you smoke it for the same reason i smoke it. i have adhd, and insomnia and i'm always jittery. :twitch: it just makes me feel normal, as opposed to ritalin. :sick:

[Gwenhwyfar]

Not for everyone...


Also as for the facts and where to find them, try www.erowid.org (http://www.erowid.org)
aside from smoking pot for PURELY medicinal purposes, Its my opinion that everyone who uses illegal drugs does it for a form of escape from reality, whether they reconize the fact or not...but thats just my opinion.

[Mindflayer]

aside from smoking pot for PURELY medicinal purposes, Its my opinion that everyone who uses illegal drugs does it for a form of escape from reality, whether they reconize the fact or not...but thats just my opinion.
Well you would be wrong :p

I use Video Games for that...lol

Drugs for me and my friends are just something to do, It's never "Man, I really need to get high" it's more of "I'm bored... wanna do some drugs?"

sounds weird, but it's true :p

[Alaiyo]

f you want to do what you do, fine. Hopefully your an adult and understand the pontential consequences. However I do have 2 things to say:
1) Please site your references in your stats.. who reported them could color the results, plus it gives others a chance to interpret for themselves.
2) I do not believe that this was/is the place for such a post. We have young teens on this site who need to see healthy adults make life affirming choices. In a world where many of us are in pain or are lost, seeing something like this DOES not help. This may of been more appropriate in the adults only portion. If you didn't have access..then maybe this wasn't appropriate here at all.

Chesna


Well, I never smoked pot so I can't speak to it. It being still illegal to possess and the fact that there are penalties for possession was enough to keep me away from it.

I do agree that if you provide stats, you should cite your sources in the post.

Regarding the bit about young teens and what they see: Sure I agree that teens need to see "healthy adults making life affirming choices." I think that they should also know both sides of things.

I also think that marketers tells us all the time that the way to be loved is to buy this thing or to eat that thing or to look this way or that there is a magic pill that will allow you to do this. I think that the fact that those messages are found in the mainstream all the time is more damgaing than someone saying that they smoke pot.

[Old Witch]

Just one little thing...It's illegal? And if you were applying for a job and you admitted to it's use, I wouldn't hire you....and if you lied on your application...I would fire you...

I don't care if you use it....Just keep far, far away from me, my kids, my grandkid........

[malice]

yah its the same for me. i like the way it effects me and makes me act and feel. its a cool way to be. i've never felt pressured. i dont smoke cigarettes anymore, or drink anymore, i just smoke pot. so yah, its the only thing i do, and it isnt a "gateway".

[WandererInGray]

*shrugs* Who cares about your drug use? If you can't deal with people telling you they think it's a dumb thing to do, then don't mention it around those people. Given that this is a public forum, people get to say what they will (within the rule), so you can say what you want, just be prepared for others to do the same.

That said, I think smoking pot makes some people stupid. Maybe they were stupid before they started, it's hard to tell. However, I have yet to meet someone who smokes on a regular basis who's demonstrated an intelligence level above that of your average 4th grader. It's a chemical, it has an effect on the brain chemistry of the folks who ingest it - and to claim otherwise is pretty goofy.

[mothwench]

aside from smoking pot for PURELY medicinal purposes, Its my opinion that everyone who uses illegal drugs does it for a form of escape from reality, whether they reconize the fact or not...but thats just my opinion.
where do you draw the line at "purely medicinal purposes"? i use it, as mentioned, to calm my hyperactivity and to get me to sleep at night, so i can get up the next morning and function normally. my ex uses it to calm his aggressive nature. is that medicinal, or are we escaping reality? after all, it's never been prescribed to either of us.

another question: are people who go out for a drink in a bar with friends also escaping reality? i would call this recreational use of a legal substance. in the same instance, i would call a group of friends hanging out at someone's house getting stoned and watching movies... recreational use of an unfortunately illegal substance.
so does, in your oppinion, the difference between scenario a and scenario b lie solely in the legality/illegality issue? i mean, does the fact that cannabis is illegal suddenly make it a device for escaping reality instead of a recreational tool?

[DVCara]

*tokes* mmmmm

"Consumption of three to 4 marijuana ciggarettes is equivalent to smoking 22 tobacco cigarettes [in other words, one joint equals 6 cigarettes]"

According to Donald P. Tashkin, M.D. (medical director of the Pulmonary Function Labratories at UCLA, "Currently, no data reveal definitive increases in rates of lung cancer among people who smoke marijuana but not tobacco...Nevertheless, a few lines of research suggest cases of cannabis-induced lung cancer that may appear in the years ahead.
THC is not carcinogenic itself. Yet when isolated cells are exposed to marijuana smoke, they change in ways that parallel the early stages of cancer. Biopsies taken from the lung tissue of cannabis users reveal cellular changes that could lead to tumors. A number of reports suggest considerable marijuana use among young people with cancers of the lung, oral cavity or esophagus. These data are comparable to early studies of tobacco and cancer and suggest that cannabis smoke is capable of damaging the bronchial system in ways that lead to tumors"
(A widely publicized 1999 study of blood doners stated that marijuana smokers were 2.5 times more likely to develope head and neck cancer then non smokers. However in June, a new study conducted by the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle, found no such association.)

The general concensis? THC could lead to cancer in the future, but if you watch the what you smokeand how you smoke it, like NOT holding your hits in for 20 minutes (you get just as much THC on the inhale and ther is no reason for people to hold their hits in a long as they do.) Don't feel bad, im still having trouble breaking that habit, after being a "professional" pot head for sometime.*giggle* the article also suggested, higher quality, less consumption, less smoke in your lungs=better...i like that one....gimmie da stickies any day...*drool*

[most of what i have typed was paraphrased from AUG/SEPT 2004 issue of High Times Magazine. Article 'Tar Baby' by John Gettman]

my opinion on pot is that i love it. :) i went through my crazy drug phase, a time i like to call my "pill and water diet" *shakes head with an ironic smile* (ie. Xtasy and Speed) and burnt out like most, luckly early so i can spend my early 20's in homebody married peace, but marijuana has never caused a problem for me, either finacially or drama wise. i am aware of the risks and am not a hardcore bowl after bowl person like i used to be.....

[Mindflayer]

*shrugs* Who cares about your drug use? If you can't deal with people telling you they think it's a dumb thing to do, then don't mention it around those people. Given that this is a public forum, people get to say what they will (within the rule), so you can say what you want, just be prepared for others to do the same.

That said, I think smoking pot makes some people stupid. Maybe they were stupid before they started, it's hard to tell. However, I have yet to meet someone who smokes on a regular basis who's demonstrated an intelligence level above that of your average 4th grader. It's a chemical, it has an effect on the brain chemistry of the folks who ingest it - and to claim otherwise is pretty goofy.
My friend smokes everday, he's on a genius level IQ, and is going to school for Biology and veternarian medicine... he's going for a .MD Degree

[Hærfest Leah]

Obviously you feel you must explain & support your choice of drug use for some reason thinking that people care what your reasons are. That should tell you alot about yourself, trying to convince yourself maybe. People will have their same opinions about it no matter how much you shove it in their face with explanations.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Well you would be wrong :p

I use Video Games for that...lol

Drugs for me and my friends are just something to do, It's never "Man, I really need to get high" it's more of "I'm bored... wanna do some drugs?"

sounds weird, but it's true :p
I totally hear what your saying, Iv been there...hell, Im still there somtimes....its still escaping reality...dont the drugs take your mind off your bordem...your bordem is reality, to not escape it would be to do something other than smoking drugs to get rid of your bordem...In the post of mine you quoted I had more so long time users, or regular users, in mind, but it is a form of escape in your situation...but thats just what I think, Im not always right but as of now, thats where I stand. :)

[Mindflayer]

*tokes* mmmmm

"Consumption of three to 4 marijuana ciggarettes is equivalent to smoking 22 tobacco cigarettes [in other words, one joint equals 6 cigarettes]"





TRUE, BUT, cigs are processed, and the chemicals in them react a LOT stronger than the chemicals in a joint... so in the long run a cig is worse than a joint :p

[DVCara]

its all relative Wanderer, smoking constantly on the regular does lead to dull, lethargy at times, not everyone smokes that way, bottomline. pot has not effect on you long term memory and only temporary effect on your stort term.

[DVCara]

TRUE, BUT, cigs are processed, and the chemicals in them react a LOT stronger than the chemicals in a joint... so in the long run a cig is worse than a joint :p

i thought that was pretty clear....i agree with you... :wave:

<--pot head

[Mindflayer]

I totally hear what your saying, Iv been there...hell, Im still there somtimes....its still escaping reality...dont the drugs take your mind off your bordem...your bordem is reality, to not escape it would be to do something other than smoking drugs to get rid of your bordem...In the post of mine you quoted I had more so long time users, or regular users, in mind, but it is a form of escape in your situation...but thats just what I think, Im not always right but as of now, thats where I stand. :)

Well, we could watcha movie, which in your terms would be "escaping the boredom"...

To me an escape would be, "I have a lot of problems in my life, if I take this substance I don't have to think about them"

and, IMO, THAT is the wrong way to use it. I always used it as more of "I find taking this substance fun, therefore, I will" and that was that... I'd have fun for a few hours, a night, whatever, then the effects go away and I carry on just like IU was before...

If I am completely stressed about a situation, I don't turn to drugs... that is when the abuse happens, and that's when addictions (even psychological ones) start... and I want no part of that.

[Mindflayer]

It's all a matter of depending on the substance to take away your problems, and merely using it to have a little fun for a few hours :p

[WandererInGray]

My friend smokes everday, he's on a genius level IQ, and is going to school for Biology and veternarian medicine... he's going for a .MD Degree
All of which he will lose if he gets busted for smoking pot. *shrugs* Intelligence....is relative.

[Spera]

All of which he will lose if he gets busted for smoking pot. *shrugs* Intelligence....is relative.

:uhhuhuh:

[Mindflayer]

All of which he will lose if he gets busted for smoking pot. *shrugs* Intelligence....is relative.He won't though... he doesn't go long distance with a large amount of weed, and his dealer lives directly above him in the same apartment complex... he buys for personal use and friends only... and ALWAYS has the people come to HIM to buy.

Also, IF he does have any weed on him while traveling...he obeys every traffic law, so he doesn't gve the cops an excuse to pull him over.


Most of the people caught for drug possesion, are either A. dealing drugs in public, or B. driving like moron with drugs in the car.

[Chesna]

directed at number 2: I definatly wouldnt go that far....whats good for some is bad for others, to each their own, and all that ya know....its no worse than the faces of Meth thread...or the predjudices thread...its something she wanted to talk about and I think she has every right.

Yes she has a right to voice her opion I think I said that.But what I was questioning is the need to do it here. I feel that there were more appropriate forums to discuss this. As for your reply.. if my child was on this site to gain support because she felt I couldn't support her, I wouldn't want her to read this. At a time when kids are trying to figure out who theyare and what they stand for, they don't need someone saying hey, pot is good. Right now it is ILLEGAL and until it becomes LEGAL, lets keep discussions like this out of the range of posible harm and/or mis-use.

Chesna

[mothwench]

That said, I think smoking pot makes some people stupid. Maybe they were stupid before they started, it's hard to tell. However, I have yet to meet someone who smokes on a regular basis who's demonstrated an intelligence level above that of your average 4th grader.
:lol: that's... nice. actually i've just recently had my intelligence, as well as all sorts of other things, tested at this six-week evaluation seminar thing the local labour exchange is making me take part in :rolleyes:, and i'm quite pleased to say i'm above average on all things exept the math parts, where i'm only average. so i'm just going to have to give you a big fourth grade :razz:
:p

It's a chemical, it has an effect on the brain chemistry of the folks who ingest it - and to claim otherwise is pretty goofy.
yeah... and having an effect on the brain chemistry is always a bad thing, or what?

[Chesna]

I do agree that if you provide stats, you should cite your sources in the post.

Regarding the bit about young teens and what they see: Sure I agree that teens need to see "healthy adults making life affirming choices." I think that they should also know both sides of things.

I also think that marketers tells us all the time that the way to be loved is to buy this thing or to eat that thing or to look this way or that there is a magic pill that will allow you to do this. I think that the fact that those messages are found in the mainstream all the time is more damgaing than someone saying that they smoke pot.

Yes, I agree that they need to know both sides. However we weren't tlaking about, or I wasn't talking about other media messages. My point was that there was/is a better place to discuss this.

Chesna

[Gwenhwyfar]

where do you draw the line at "purely medicinal purposes"? i use it, as mentioned, to calm my hyperactivity and to get me to sleep at night, so i can get up the next morning and function normally. my ex uses it to calm his aggressive nature. is that medicinal, or are we escaping reality? after all, it's never been prescribed to either of us.

another question: are people who go out for a drink in a bar with friends also escaping reality? i would call this recreational use of a legal substance. in the same instance, i would call a group of friends hanging out at someone's house getting stoned and watching movies... recreational use of an unfortunately illegal substance.
so does, in your oppinion, the difference between scenario a and scenario b lie solely in the legality/illegality issue? i mean, does the fact that cannabis is illegal suddenly make it a device for escaping reality instead of a recreational tool?
I think drinking is equivalent to smoking pot...not taking legality into it at all.

Im not saying ban alcohol, Im not saying people who do drugs are bad, or anything like that...I just think its escaping reality....all of it, drinking included....now, going to a party once in a while and having a few drinks and/or tokes....I didn't think of that, I don't know...Id have to ponder that one. :)

[Chesna]

My friend smokes everday, he's on a genius level IQ, and is going to school for Biology and veternarian medicine... he's going for a .MD Degree

Please tell me where he gets his MD license I want to stay far far away.

Chesna

[Mindflayer]

Please tell me where he gets his MD license I want to stay far far away.

ChesnaWhy? There are a LOT more professionals that smoke pot than you realize... some of them probably handle your money, your property, the laws that you follow so... everything.

Or is this an "Out of sight, out of mind" thing?

[Gwenhwyfar]

Well, we could watcha movie, which in your terms would be "escaping the boredom"...

To me an escape would be, "I have a lot of problems in my life, if I take this substance I don't have to think about them"

and, IMO, THAT is the wrong way to use it. I always used it as more of "I find taking this substance fun, therefore, I will" and that was that... I'd have fun for a few hours, a night, whatever, then the effects go away and I carry on just like IU was before...

If I am completely stressed about a situation, I don't turn to drugs... that is when the abuse happens, and that's when addictions (even psychological ones) start... and I want no part of that.
Sure, but a movie is esaping the bordem without getting high...*shrug, I agree with you on the most part, I smoke myself....but its still a form of escape, regardless what your escaping.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Why? There are a LOT more professionals that smoke pot than you realize... some of them probably handle your money, your property, the laws that you follow so... everything.

Or is this an "Out of sight, out of mind" thing?
this is true, I know many professionals who smoke pot...

[Mindflayer]

Sure, but a movie is esaping the bordem without getting high...*shrug, I agree with you on the most part, I smoke myself....but its still a form of escape, regardless what your escaping.
In a way... but by escape I mean using it as something to get rid of / numb the problems in your life instead of facing them :p

[Gwenhwyfar]

In a way... but by escape I mean using it as something to get rid of / numb the problems in your life instead of facing them :p
exactly, even if the problem your facing is having nothing fun or exciting to do at the moment.

All that aside, Im getting older and I dont really want to die of anything other than old age..so Im trying to make as healthy choices as possibe...smoke going into your lungs just cant be healthy...so thats the reason I want to quit.

[Mindflayer]

exactly, even if the problem your facing is having nothing fun or exciting to do at the moment.

All that aside, Im getting older and I dont really want to die of anything other than old age..so Im trying to make as healthy choices as possibe...smoke going into your lungs just cant be healthy...so thats the reason I want to quit.
you're being very general...i'm talking specifics :p

[Druchii]

He won't though... he doesn't go long distance with a large amount of weed, and his dealer lives directly above him in the same apartment complex... he buys for personal use and friends only... and ALWAYS has the people come to HIM to buy.

Also, IF he does have any weed on him while traveling...he obeys every traffic law, so he doesn't gve the cops an excuse to pull him over.


Most of the people caught for drug possesion, are either A. dealing drugs in public, or B. driving like moron with drugs in the car.



Or they let narcs get close to them. It easy when they have no idea who they are or can be.

I personally don't care either way. It's like drinking, I have dealt with the worst aspects and seen some funny stuff when people were drunk.

Sooo, it's all about the person really. One freind of mine smokes it occasionally, and he has NEVER let on that he did. He wears no iconography of it, in fact looks NOTHING like the stereotypical pot smoker ( if there is one ), and until I found his stash one day while looking for a remote, I would have never known. And I had known him for YEARS. He convinced me that like anything, if handled responsibly, and if one has a brain about it, then it can just be safe and relaxing.


:lol: I need to add that REGARDLESS of what any of you have thought, I have never drank or smoked ANYTHING in my life,... and all of my experiences are just from others I have known, :D so I could be very well off the mark on things. :lol:

[Faerin]

I think that becase there are medical facts that alchol can kill you, that is should be illegal, cannabis has none of these facts.

Well I wouldn't go so far as to say alcohol should be illegal, that would take away people's right to chose. Anything can kill you if you have no control over it.

[Mindflayer]

Or they let narcs get close to them. It easy when they have no idea who they are or can be.

I personally don't care either way. It's like drinking, I have dealt with the worst aspects and seen some funny stuff when people were drunk.

Sooo, it's all about the person really. One freind of mine smokes it occasionally, and he has NEVER let on that he did. He wears no iconography of it, in fact looks NOTHING like the stereotypical pot smoker ( if there is one ), and until I found his stash one day while looking for a remote, I would have never known. And I had known him for YEARS. He convinced me that like anything, if handled responsibly, and if one has a brain about it, then it can just be safe and relaxing.


:lol: I need to add that REGARDLESS of what any of you have thought, I have never drank or smoked ANYTHING in my life,... and all of my experiences are just from others I have known, :D so I could be very well off the mark on things. :lol:


There's a simple test for narcs... narcs don't smoke :p

[Kyra Kismet]

One freind of mine smokes it occasionally, and he has NEVER let on that he did. He wears no iconography of it, in fact looks NOTHING like the stereotypical pot smoker ( if there is one ),

This is me, i I didn't say anything you would know by looking at me! :geez:

[LadyTrinity]

My boy friend said the same thing.. he said he has bad axiety and that smoking pot made him " normal ".
It doesnt change the fact that it is ILLEGAL and when someone gets caught with enough to get arrested they can loose alot in their life, from a clear criminal record to their job or any little children they have! So becareful while the laws havent changed it to be legal yet. You can get in BIG trouble :twitch:

[WandererInGray]

This is me, i I didn't say anything you would know by looking at me! :geez:
Riiiiiight. And the nun smoking the bong in your av isn't a dead giveaway? :lol:

[LadyTrinity]

Yeah. When I found pot in the car for the 2nd time I told him that he isnt caring about my son because if we got pulled over and searched.. they would find it under the drivers seat and my son would be taken probably by CAS or something. I told him I wanted to move out. No man has more value as my own flesh and blood child!!!
He told me he would never use it again. I havent seen it since then.. but geez... it was a struggle to explain to him just because you havent been busted with a large amount yet.. doesnt mean it will NEVER happen :shaker:
If pot makes someone unmotivated than if they are responsible enough to smoke illegal drugs they should be responsible enough to know that their life is going no where and to either stop or keep smoking but stop being such an unmotivated sloth :smile:

[i_am_serenity16]

Hey kyra. I know how you feel pal. I'm currently quitting heroine but I've found that continuing to smoke marijuana helps to ease me into quitting rather than quitting both at once. An it harm none do what ye will... right? Technically speaking marijuana is less harmful than most drugs out there. What you said in your original post makes PERFECT sense to me and I'm sure many others... rock on girlie and have fun!
Serenity16

[Kyra Kismet]

Riiiiiight. And the nun smoking the bong in your av isn't a dead giveaway? :lol:
Things like that don't count, IRL you can't tell!Trust me!

[LadyTrinity]

Things like that don't count, IRL you can't tell!Trust me!
:lol:

[Kyra Kismet]

My mates can vouch for me, they say I look odd as a 'stoner'

[Druchii]

My mates can vouch for me, they say I look odd as a 'stoner'


I don't know that it's so much a look as an attitude, kwim? There seems to be an almost devil may care attitude attached in most cases.

[abrakus]

Kyra aint no stoner, like im not ur average coke addict well ex now.... but neway off subject. cannabis is ok in moderation, doesnt bother me. ROCK ON KYRA!!!!

[Mindflayer]

I was actually stopped by airport security after they found pot in MY bag! He had slipped some into my baggage. Thankfully, we lived in Alaska and pot was legal at the time,(early 1990s) so nothing happened, but it just goes to show how far he was willing to take it, and how much he was willing to risk for pot. I don't care what anyone says, pot can be addictive and extremely destructive to the person and to the family. I've witnessed it first hand.
Agreed, but anything can be addictive in the same way... it's a psychological addiction (pot is not physically addictive), people start smoking, they like the effects, so they smoke more, eventually they like the effects so much they can't stand not being under them.

[Kyra Kismet]

Hey kyra. I know how you feel pal. I'm currently quitting heroine but I've found that continuing to smoke marijuana helps to ease me into quitting rather than quitting both at once. An it harm none do what ye will... right? Technically speaking marijuana is less harmful than most drugs out there. What you said in your original post makes PERFECT sense to me and I'm sure many others... rock on girlie and have fun!
Serenity16

thanks mate!I wish you all the luck going cold turkey!

[abrakus]

Hey kyra. I know how you feel pal. I'm currently quitting heroine but I've found that continuing to smoke marijuana helps to ease me into quitting rather than quitting both at once. An it harm none do what ye will... right? Technically speaking marijuana is less harmful than most drugs out there. What you said in your original post makes PERFECT sense to me and I'm sure many others... rock on girlie and have fun!
Serenity16
I wish you all the best, it's hard but I'm sure you'll do it.
rock on. :thumbsup:

[Philbo]

Can marijuana help with migraines?

[Kyra Kismet]

yes!

[i_am_serenity16]

thanks mate!I wish you all the luck going cold turkey!
No problem. Thanks for the good luck wishes... I'll need all the luck I can get :gagged:

[DraoinanDuanaire]

However, I have yet to meet someone who smokes on a regular basis who's demonstrated an intelligence level above that of your average 4th grader.

You have to meet someone who smokes on a regular basis that you can detect who's demonstrated an intelligence level above that of your average 4th grader. They're all around you, they just don't act like this stoner stereotype you have in mind.

:fpipesmok

[abrakus]

You have to meet someone who smokes on a regular basis that you can detect who's demonstrated an intelligence level above that of your average 4th grader. They're all around you, they just don't act like this stoner stereotype you have in mind.

:fpipesmok

I agree with you. i know lots of people who smoke it on a regular basis, and they demonstrate intelligence way above a 4th grade.

[i_am_serenity16]

You have to meet someone who smokes on a regular basis that you can detect who's demonstrated an intelligence level above that of your average 4th grader. They're all around you, they just don't act like this stoner stereotype you have in mind.

:fpipesmok
VERY true! Example... not to brag but myself... straight A student, juggling 2 jobs school home and a band. Not many people now that use any sort of drugs, no one really expects it.

[WandererInGray]

You have to meet someone who smokes on a regular basis that you can detect who's demonstrated an intelligence level above that of your average 4th grader. They're all around you, they just don't act like this stoner stereotype you have in mind.

:fpipesmok
You mean like the "stoner sterotype" that I've met constantly? *rolls eyes* I can smell pot a mile away. The smell makes me ill...and you can't hide it if you smoke it constantly. So don't make an attempt to try to tell me there are people out there I just don't see them. I'd be able to smell them first, it's not that hard.

Look, no amount of propaganda is going to convince me that smoking pot is a Good Thing™ just like no amount of my opinion that it turns people into fools will convince you to stop smoking.

They're actually not all around me. *smiles* Because I make a serious effort not to associate with people who do drugs. Plain and simple. I don't give a rat's ass if it's coke or pot or any other stupid, illegal drug. I don't want you around me. That's a personal choice on my part. I don't care if people do it or not, but I chose not to associate with people "IRL" who do.

[Kyra Kismet]

Ok then. you make an effort not to hang around people who drink or smoke, both highly addictive and bad for you!Whats the difference, except they both kill you!

[Earthy]

My boyfriend smokes pot very occasionally, though not around me.I don't like it and don't do it.
I don't condemn those who do..it's all about personal choice, though i am very anti drugs.

[Amethyst Rose]

Right now I'm a little biased against it. A month ago four police men were killed during a bust on a grow op. in northern Alberta (a couple hours from where I live). It may seem illogical, but at the moment I blame every pot smoker for the death of those four young men. Without their 'innocent' pastime, there would have been no need for the grow op, and those men would probably still be alive.

[WandererInGray]

Ok then. you make an effort not to hang around people who drink or smoke, both highly addictive and bad for you!Whats the difference, except they both kill you!
Was there a point to this? Cause if there was I missed it?

Yeah, things kill you. A lot of things kill you. That's not the point of the discussion. *shrugs*

[Kyra Kismet]

Alcahol and ciggerettes are proven killers, whereas cannabis isn't, therefore why is it illegal but they are not. If you distance yourself from people who take drugs do you also distance yourself from people who drink and smoke?

[DraoinanDuanaire]

You mean like the "stoner sterotype" that I've met constantly? *rolls eyes* I can smell pot a mile away. The smell makes me ill...and you can't hide it if you smoke it constantly. So don't make an attempt to try to tell me there are people out there I just don't see them. I'd be able to smell them first, it's not that hard.

I could repeat myself, but it would be useless; same point.

There's a woman I work with that sounds exactly like you, with the super-sensitive smell and the like. She claims that if anyone around her has smoked marijuana in the last twenty-four hours, she'll get sick to her stomach. The "crime dogs" are always the last to know.

I'm not trying to tell you to smoke pot, but you have some seriously mistaken prejudices.

:fpipesmok

[greenwitch]

I've tried it, had fun, but I dont do it. I have allergies and it messes with my sinuses for one, and two I have a million other things to do(like heal from surgery, college, a boyfriend, etc). I don't have a problem if you do it. I know it wont make you suddenly wanna kill someone, I know that alochol does worse than weed, which is why I'm actually kinda confused on WHY alochol is legal and weed isn't....

As for why this thread is here... why not? I'm a teenager too and yes I'm finding out who I am, but I would much rather see both sides to a story and NOT be censored from life experiences, even if they aren't my own, I mean, you learn through others too right? if you learn that pot is bad all your life, you're going to have a very one sided view on things, going to be very ignorant to a lot of people, and completely insensitive to them too. I would much rather see the BIG PICTURE rather than just a small little bitty corner of it.

[Mindflayer]

Alcahol and ciggerettes are proven killers, whereas cannabis isn't, therefore why is it illegal but they are not. If you distance yourself from people who take drugs do you also distance yourself from people who drink and smoke?Well, actually there is ONE known case of marijuana "overdose" ...kinda

Apparently there was a guy, that was almost 50yrs old, had been smoking since he was 12, and smoked some ridiculous amount (like an ounce a day) every day, for 40some years. His body became so loaded with the chemicals from the pot that he died of Toxic Shock Syndrome :p

[Kyra Kismet]

So true, all my teachers can never tell, two of them know I do it and like to see if they can guess if im high or not!

[Kyra Kismet]

Well, actually there is ONE known case of marijuana "overdose" ...kinda

Apparently there was a guy, that was almost 50yrs old, had been smoking since he was 12, and smoked some ridiculous amount (like an ounce a day) every day, for 40some years. His body became so loaded with the chemicals from the pot that he died of Toxic Shock Syndrome :p
Yeah but thats a hell of alot!No normal person would wanna smoke that much...come on thats sounds like a lie.

[WandererInGray]

*smiles* Given that this thread isn't about my choices, but about yours, I still fail to see the point. *shrugs* That's such a tired argument. The bottom line is alcohol and cigs are legal....grass isn't. It's not about the death rate. If I were going by that I'd have to stop associating with people who drive cars, since more people are killed in car wrecks each year than by alcohol and cigs.

Oh crap...I'd have to stop associating with myself! I wonder how I'd do that. :eyebrow:

So here's a question for you. Explain to me how sucking heated smoke into your lungs of any kind can possibly be *good* for you?

[Mindflayer]

Yeah but thats a hell of alot!No normal person would wanna smoke that much...come on thats sounds like a lie.
Nope, it's a documented medical case lol

[Kyra Kismet]

I've tried it, had fun, but I dont do it. I have allergies and it messes with my sinuses for one, and two I have a million other things to do(like heal from surgery, college, a boyfriend, etc). I don't have a problem if you do it. I know it wont make you suddenly wanna kill someone, I know that alochol does worse than weed, which is why I'm actually kinda confused on WHY alochol is legal and weed isn't....

As for why this thread is here... why not? I'm a teenager too and yes I'm finding out who I am, but I would much rather see both sides to a story and NOT be censored from life experiences, even if they aren't my own, I mean, you learn through others too right? if you learn that pot is bad all your life, you're going to have a very one sided view on things, going to be very ignorant to a lot of people, and completely insensitive to them too. I would much rather see the BIG PICTURE rather than just a small little bitty corner of it.


thankyou for your input, I think that teenagers should be free to make up thier own minds rather than being told what to do. Personally I know my parents prefer me high to drunk, my mom worrys about me more when I have been drinking. My parents are open minded and are happier that I tell them what I do!

[Klucky]

If you distance yourself from people who take drugs do you also distance yourself from people who drink and smoke?

Yes. Believe me, I'm the last person you want to confront about pot being okay or whatever it is you're saying. A handful of you know exactly what I'm talking about. (That's all I'll contribute to this thread because I had originally promised myself to stay out of it.)

-Klucky

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Explain to me how sucking heated smoke into your lungs of any kind can possibly be *good* for you?

It's not, physically-speaking.

Any kids reading, take note: burning any manner of plant and inhaling the fumes is not good for your body.

Each person has to decide for themselves whether the positive effects (mental, emotional or spiritual) are worth it. It's a trade-off. A lot of people don't get enough out of it to make the cost worth it. A lot of people do.

[Kyra Kismet]

*smiles* Given that this thread isn't about my choices, but about yours, I still fail to see the point. *shrugs* That's such a tired argument. The bottom line is alcohol and cigs are legal....grass isn't. It's not about the death rate. If I were going by that I'd have to stop associating with people who drive cars, since more people are killed in car wrecks each year than by alcohol and cigs.

Oh crap...I'd have to stop associating with myself! I wonder how I'd do that. :eyebrow:

So here's a question for you. Explain to me how sucking heated smoke into your lungs of any kind can possibly be *good* for you?

its not, and personally i like the tea and hash cakes more, but they are really obvious, and also I smoke cigs, therefore a little more smoke isn't gonna make that much difference.

[WandererInGray]

I'm not trying to tell you to smoke pot, but you have some seriously mistaken prejudices.
:rolleyes: Prejudices? Oh come on!

I don't get to have a personal opinion on this without it being a prejudice? Yeesh. Apparently I have to not only approve of it, but smoke it myself, eh? Will that make me not prejudice?

[Kyra Kismet]

Yes. Believe me, I'm the last person you want to confront about pot being okay or whatever it is you're saying. A handful of you know exactly what I'm talking about. (That's all I'll contribute to this thread because I had originally promised myself to stay out of it.)

-Klucky
I have been told, so therefore I thank you for not shouting at me.

[Mindflayer]

*smiles* Given that this thread isn't about my choices, but about yours, I still fail to see the point. *shrugs* That's such a tired argument. The bottom line is alcohol and cigs are legal....grass isn't. It's not about the death rate. If I were going by that I'd have to stop associating with people who drive cars, since more people are killed in car wrecks each year than by alcohol and cigs.

Oh crap...I'd have to stop associating with myself! I wonder how I'd do that. :eyebrow:

So here's a question for you. Explain to me how sucking heated smoke into your lungs of any kind can possibly be *good* for you?

I never said it was... in fact it's quite the opposite.

ALL drugs are BAD for you, there is no safe drug...PERIOD. There are however safer ways of dabbling in drugs.

And legallities...in the long run, mean nothing. The ONLY reason pot (or any drug for that matter) is still illegal is because the government is make more money from it being illegal than it would make if it was legal.

As an example, ask your local police department how much of it's equipment was bought with drug money...

[i_am_serenity16]

I know that alochol does worse than weed, which is why I'm actually kinda confused on WHY alochol is legal and weed isn't....


Actually the main reason is quite simple... weed is to uncontrollable, since you can simply grow it, to be legal. If there was a way to control it more than it wouldn't be illegal. But since it's IMPOSSIBLE to control a plant... :fprisoner it's illegal.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Prejudices? Oh come on!

What? I'm using the word correctly.


I don't get to have a personal opinion on this without it being a prejudice? Yeesh.

You can have a personal opinion. It can also be a prejudice. Don't be so upset.


Apparently I have to not only approve of it, but smoke it myself, eh? Will that make me not prejudice?

I never suggested anything of the sort. You're baiting me to suggest you engage in an illegal activity. :rolleyes:

Carry on, McGruff.

[Kyra Kismet]

:rolleyes: Prejudices? Oh come on!

I don't get to have a personal opinion on this without it being a prejudice? Yeesh. Apparently I have to not only approve of it, but smoke it myself, eh? Will that make me not prejudice?

No but you should not penilise people who smoke it, most people who have never smoked it have this preconception of a 'stoner' some blerry eyes teen who is unwashed and grunts alot.
I challenge anyone to call me that!!!!!!!!

[enchancea]

IF you want to smoke it then thats your choice. But I choose not to because its illegal and its not worth getting trouble for. And because its illegal I dont even want it done around me. If it was legal maybe I would try it. I know alot of people who smoke it on a regular basis who are very intelligent and have very important jobs, you would never think they smoke it.

[Mindflayer]

Actually the main reason is quite simple... weed is to uncontrollable, since you can simply grow it, to be legal. If there was a way to control it more than it wouldn't be illegal. But since it's IMPOSSIBLE to control a plant... :fprisoner it's illegal.
They control tobacco just fine... it's all about the almighty $$$$$$$

Illegal = LOTS of money

Legal = Not as much money

Therefore, pot = illegal :p

[DraoinanDuanaire]

I know alot of people who smoke it on a regular basis who are very intelligent and have very important jobs, you would never think they smoke it.

One might think such a thing from experience, but Wanderer has pot-dar. She can always tell. If she can't tell, they don't smoke. Logic.

:graduate:

[Kyra Kismet]

One might think such a thing from experience, but Wanderer has pot-dar. She can always tell. If she can't tell, they don't smoke. Logic.

:graduate:

**ding ding ding** Its my pot-dar, its like a gay-dar but different

[Mindflayer]

**ding ding ding** Its my pot-dar, its like a gay-dar but different
Yeah, gay-dar exists :p

[Kyra Kismet]

heehee

[greenwitch]

Actually the main reason is quite simple... weed is to uncontrollable, since you can simply grow it, to be legal. If there was a way to control it more than it wouldn't be illegal. But since it's IMPOSSIBLE to control a plant... :fprisoner it's illegal.

not really..... people control plants all the damn time, you know, on farms. farming. like.... all the veggies and crap.... but I guess because of seeds and the wind and whatnot.... it'd go everywhere....

meh. I'm half American Indian, technically it's all I need to be legal with weed. It's part of my culture :p

[Kyra Kismet]

It's part of my culture :p
I wish I could say that!

[DraoinanDuanaire]

The absurdity of trying to regulate a plant just amazes me.

It's a plant, people! A bloody weed! It will grow naturally in your own backyard, if you let it! How the heck do we get to the point where some government tells us "oh, this plant is illegal, you shouldn't possess it"...?

It's a plant! Just some leaves!

[greenwitch]

I wish I could say that!

:D I know, ain't it grand? :D

[Kyra Kismet]

:D I know, ain't it grand? :D
**Hates you from a distance while taking a toke**Grrrrrr..Ooooo :lol:

[DixieWitch]

*smiles* Given that this thread isn't about my choices, but about yours, I still fail to see the point. *shrugs* That's such a tired argument. The bottom line is alcohol and cigs are legal....grass isn't. It's not about the death rate. If I were going by that I'd have to stop associating with people who drive cars, since more people are killed in car wrecks each year than by alcohol and cigs.

Oh crap...I'd have to stop associating with myself! I wonder how I'd do that. :eyebrow:

So here's a question for you. Explain to me how sucking heated smoke into your lungs of any kind can possibly be *good* for you?

Noooo! Don't stop associating with yourself!!

I wish I could stop smoking ciggys. I know every one I suck is is slowly killing me. I can feel it everyday. It sucks. I've been smoking since I'm 15..I'm 28 now. I've quit twice..when I was pregnant with both my kids. But I can't seem to stop. And I know I need too.

And yes, Wiggie does have pot-dar. It's called allergies and a general disgust for the smell of it.

[abrakus]

I'm a pot dar, i can smell it a mile away, its pretty much like my gay dar. **beep beep**

[abrakus]

nought wrong with smoking cannabis, its a personal choice. I dont do it, but i hang around with people that do.

**ponders**

Does that count as passive smoking?

[DixieWitch]

I'm a pot dar, i can smell it a mile away, its pretty much like my gay dar. **beep beep**
My gay-dar is pretty strong too. But I'm still working on the "is that a boy or a girl?"-dar

[abrakus]

same here, some people look damn confusing. but its cool.

[Kyra Kismet]

me too, there are loads of people that look like both these days!
My pot dar is the greatest I can walk into a pub tell you whos smoking, what it is, and if its green, roughly whats in the mix!

[Viseux]

Well I will speak from My Personal Experience.

It Was A Gateway Drug... for me and in the late 70's and early 80's led me on to trying basically everything else that was out there at the time short of Heroin. I thank the Goddess that Crack was not on the market back then.

It Was Mentally Addictive... for me! When at the age of 25 I decided I needed to get my act together, I was able to quit the so called "hard drugs" immediately. I struggled with Marijuana for another 3 years before finally getting myself clear of it.

During the 12 years of my adiction my... Maturity Level Was Frozen... at the age of 16 (when I started) until well after I was finally able to quit at the age of 28.

So I say your statistics and theorys are all so much Bull Shit!

What may be true for some is not true for all!

Most people seem to be able to handle it OK. I could not. Not everyone can.

I don't want others reading these responses to say... "see, I told you it was completely safe to use"... IT IS NOT!

This Is Not Theory! This Is Fact! This Is My Life I'm Talking About!!!

[mothwench]

Actually the main reason is quite simple... weed is to uncontrollable, since you can simply grow it, to be legal. If there was a way to control it more than it wouldn't be illegal. But since it's IMPOSSIBLE to control a plant... :fprisoner it's illegal.
i can't imagine that's the reason. you can get wine-making kits at boots the chemist. so no. the real reason is the paper industry, the pharmaceutical industry, and other meanies. where's that article... *goes digging in her bookmarks*

http://www.ephidrina.org/cannabis/taxact.html

[Klucky]

Well I will speak from My Personal Experience.

It Was A Gateway Drug... for me and in the late 70's and early 80's led me on to trying basically everything else that was out there at the time short of Heroin. I thank the Goddess that Crack was not on the market back then.

It Was Mentally Addictive... for me! When at the age of 25 I decided I needed to get my act together, I was able to quit the so called "hard drugs" immediately. I struggled with Marijuana for another 3 years before finally getting myself clear of it.

During the 12 years of my addition my... Maturity Level Was Frozen... at the age of 16 (when I started) until well after I was finally able to quit at the age of 28.

So I say your statistics and theorys are all so much Bull Shit!

What may be true for some is not true for all!

Most people seem to be able to handle it OK. I could not. Not everyone can.

I don't want others reading these responses to say... "see, I told you it was completely safe to use"... IT IS NOT!

This Is Not Theory! This Is Fact! This Is My Life I'm Talking About!!!

Thank you.

-Klucky

[Toriach]

Well when all is said and done I think it's the same old thing. Some people like pot, some don't. Some can use it recreationally, some can't. Some people go on to try other drugs, some never do.

Myself I favor the most things in moderation concept. I don't smoke mainly because I don't like smoking period. I prefer alchohol. Plus to Me alc is more casual. I have a beer, I sip said beer while I read etc. Pot requires a bit more focus and that's just not My thing.

To be honest what I'm more bothered by is the idea that we should treat pot handlers the same way we do meth sellers, or crack dealers. As usual in the good old us of a we have no love of discretion.

To Viseaux I hope that you realize that someone making a statement about how they are able to enjoy pot recreationally in their life is not meant to dismiss or belittle the truth of what you personally went through. Each person reacts differently to a host of phenomenon.

Live
Long
And
Prosper

[WandererInGray]

And yes, Wiggie does have pot-dar. It's called allergies and a general disgust for the smell of it.
Thank you dahling. :D

*wry grin* Well that and being inundated with the smell in college. It's not that hard to imagine. *shrugs* You can tell if people smoke ciggys with relative ease. I'm not claiming to be able to tell 100% of the time, but the average is pretty good. If you're a habitual (that's key, I'm talking daily smoking) pot smoker, chances are I'm going to smell it on you at some point.

Smoke sticks. To everything. Clothing, breath, hair, etc. And if you (general) can't smell it, the chances are it's just because it's such a common smell to you now that your brain filters it out.

I'm curious. Can anyone provide a list of notable people who've contributed to the good of society who are/were habitual pot smokers? (by habitual I mean smoking up at least once a day every day, usually more) I doubt such a list could be drawn up just given the specifications that would need to be verified, but I'm curious if anyone can name some. (with some sort of proof that they smoke/d pot and not just speculation)

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Can anyone provide a list of notable people who've contributed to the good of society who are/were habitual pot smokers?

Of course not. You know that. :)

Can anyone provide a list of notable people who've contributed to the good of society who are/were, say, Wiccans?

This should help establish where that line of "notable" and "good of society" falls.

[Mindflayer]

Thank you dahling. :D

*wry grin* Well that and being inundated with the smell in college. It's not that hard to imagine. *shrugs* You can tell if people smoke ciggys with relative ease. I'm not claiming to be able to tell 100% of the time, but the average is pretty good. If you're a habitual (that's key, I'm talking daily smoking) pot smoker, chances are I'm going to smell it on you at some point.

Smoke sticks. To everything. Clothing, breath, hair, etc. And if you (general) can't smell it, the chances are it's just because it's such a common smell to you now that your brain filters it out.

I'm curious. Can anyone provide a list of notable people who've contributed to the good of society who are/were habitual pot smokers? (by habitual I mean smoking up at least once a day every day, usually more) I doubt such a list could be drawn up just given the specifications that would need to be verified, but I'm curious if anyone can name some. (with some sort of proof that they smoke/d pot and not just speculation)Actually, after a brief time pot does not leave a lasting odor... unlike tobacco...

When i lived up north our landlord had a strict no smoking inside rule... well my roommates didn't smoke cigs inside... but we did smoke pot inside... and they could NEVER tell...

Unless you've smoked recently...the smell of pot DOES go away, I've come home from parties REAKING of pot... the next day before I even do laundry... can't smell a thing ;)

[Mindflayer]

I'm curious. Can anyone provide a list of notable people who've contributed to the good of society who are/were habitual pot smokers? (by habitual I mean smoking up at least once a day every day, usually more) I doubt such a list could be drawn up just given the specifications that would need to be verified, but I'm curious if anyone can name some. (with some sort of proof that they smoke/d pot and not just speculation)
Not pot directly, but I can name notable people who did drugs...

Edgar Allen Poe (Opium addict, along with other things)
Sigmund Freud (Cocaine addict)

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Since such a list is utterly subjective, I'll throw in some names from my list of notable "stoners":

The Beatles - Notable? I think so. I like their music, so I'd say "good" as well.

Carl Sagan - He's not exactly a nobody, and I'm surprised anyone would think he had the intelligence of a 4th grader.

Bruce Lee - Who doesn't like Bruce Lee?

Jack Keruoac - Who didn't like Dharma Bums?

Jim Morrison - Doors!

Alexander Dumas - Great author. Gets a bit dry at times. Three Muskateers is a classic.

Victor Hugo - Who hasn't loved Les Mis?

Oscar Wilde - Not everyone's cup of tea, but not exactly an utter tool.

Pink Floyd - Classic.

[WandererInGray]

Of course not. You know that. :)

Can anyone provide a list of notable people who've contributed to the good of society who are/were, say, Wiccans?

This should help establish where that line of "notable" and "good of society" falls.
Sophistry.

We're not talking about Wiccans. We're talking about pot and if people can be "intelligent" or "successful" while being habitual smokers.


Not pot directly, but I can name notable people who did drugs...

Edgar Allen Poe (Opium addict, along with other things)
Sigmund Freud (Cocaine addict)
Thanks Mindflayer...that's what I'm looking for. :)

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Sophistry.

Illustration.


We're not talking about Wiccans. We're talking about pot and if people can be "intelligent" or "sucessful" while being habitual smokers.

Obviously not, since we all have the intelligence of fourth-graders. Right? :rotfl:

[Illuminatus]

Kyra,

I think cannabis is awesome and moreover YOU are awesome.

- Illuminatus

[WandererInGray]

Since such a list is utterly subjective
Well of course it's subjective. :lol: Given that I just asked for it and we're not in a research facility, not to mention there's very little way to prove any of these folks were habitual pot smokers and not just recreational ones.

[WandererInGray]

Illustration.
Prejudice. (oh and I provide you with a definition below, you did not in fact use the word correctly in regards to me. ;) )



Obviously not, since we all have the intelligence of fourth-graders. Right? :rotfl:
:D Well that depends, would you like to continue to have a discussion about it, or continue with your useless attempts to bait me by taking my comment out of context?

[Xentor]

Admin mode

In the USA drug use is illegal. MW does not approve of illegal activities. We will allow this thread to exist, but that doesn't mean MW approves of drug use.

Be aware that this is a public forum and anyone can read your posts.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Well of course it's subjective.

That's why I said one couldn't really be provided. You can just say "Carl Sagan wasn't that smart" or "I don't believe Victor Hugo really smoked pot, because pot's for losers!" :)


Prejudice. (oh and I provide you with a definition below, you did not in fact use the word correctly in regards to me. )

Unless you're willing to state that your sample is obviously flawed, I did. You stated that all regular users of your acquaintance have the intelligence of children; this implies that either your social circle is full of idiots, which has more to do with you than marijuana, or you believe such is the usual result of said usage.

I don't believe Kyra and I, for example, are of limited intelligence just because we imbibe a plant you don't like. That's like saying all the Wiccans (or blacks, or soy-eaters, or Democrats) of my acquaintance are utter fecking losers. Can it be true? Yes. Is it prejudicial? Yes.



Obviously not, since we all have the intelligence of fourth-graders. Right?

Well that depends, would you like to continue to have a discussion about it, or continue with your useless attempts to bait me by taking my comment out of context?

The former more than the latter, but you have to know your declaration was rather provocative. :) If we can take your implication that we're intellectually-inferior in good humor, surely you can loosen up a bit and not mind our poking fun at you.

[Illuminatus]

That reminds me, when are you sending me my goods buddy? I already paypalled you all the money, where's my hash man???

Don't forget rolling papers, they're hard to find around here


Admin mode

In the USA drug use is illegal. MW does not approve of illegal activities. We will allow this thread to exist, but that doesn't mean MW approves of drug use.

Be aware that this is a public forum and anyone can read your posts.

[Alaiyo]

Edgar drank lots of alcohol and to be honest he probably would have still screwed up his life without using drugs and drink. He was one of those people who knew how to shoot himself in the foot but good.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

"I can remember one occasion, taking a shower with my wife while high, in which I had an idea on the origins and invalidities of racism in terms of Gaussian distribution curves. It was a point obvious in a way, but rarely talked about. I drew curves in soap on the shower wall, and went to write the idea down. One idea led to another, and at the end of about an hour of extremely hard work I had found I had written eleven short essays on a wide range of social, political, philosophical, and human biological topics. I have used them in university commencement addresses, public lectures, and in my books." - Carl Sagan

What a loser he turned out to be.

[Akhkharu Asgard]

I haven't read the previous 90,000 posts as of yet. I do not use any drugs. I do not like to take in anything that will make me lose control of my body (and screw all of you who say pot doesn't, take a freakin' lesson). It's illegal for a reason in America.

I knew an extremely smart guy who smoked a lot of pot and did other drugs in highschool. He was extremely intelligent and could have done anything he wanted to with his life. Oh wait, he's freaking dead now. He drove when he was high on pot and drove head on into another car.

Am I hating a group of people? Yes. Will I hate you? No. I can deal with drug addicts over the net, but in person, we would not be friends. I've seen too many deaths caused by "a harmless" drug and seen first hand evidence of it being a "gateway" drug. You all can continue to believe what you want to believe, but I wish people would just open themselves up to the facts without being selfish with their "desires."

Again, I didn't read any of the posts yet, just wanted to voice (i.e., type) my thoughts on the drug subject. This will probably get me some of that negative karma from you drug fans, but whatever. I will not stand idly by and not voice my opinion. Drugs = bad

I will state that there are smart and stupid drug users just as there are smart and stupid people in any sort of group. Although, these smart ones seem to die before their prime due to their addictions. Drugs didn't make these people smart. They were smart before.

[Spera]

I haven't read the previous 90,000 posts as of yet. I do not use any drugs. I do not like to take in anything that will make me lose control of my body (and screw all of you who say pot doesn't, take a freakin' lesson). It's illegal for a reason in America.

I knew an extremely smart guy who smoked a lot of pot and did other drugs in highschool. He was extremely intelligent and could have done anything he wanted to with his life. Oh wait, he's freaking dead now. He drove when he was high on pot and drove head on into another car.

Am I hating a group of people? Yes. Will I hate you? No. I can deal with drug addicts over the net, but in person, we would not be friends. I've seen too many deaths caused by "a harmless" drug and seen first hand evidence of it being a "gateway" drug. You all can continue to believe what you want to believe, but I wish people would just open themselves up to the facts without being selfish with their "desires."

Again, I didn't read any of the posts yet, just wanted to voice (i.e., type) my thoughts on the drug subject. This will probably get me some of that negative karma from you drug fans, but whatever. I will not stand idly by and not voice my opinion. Drugs = bad

I will state that there are smart and stupid drug users just as there are smart and stupid people in any sort of group. Although, these smart ones seem to die before their prime due to their addictions. Drugs didn't make these people smart. They were smart before.

Thank you for this post.

[WandererInGray]

Okay. Let's take a look at this again. And if you'll answer a question for me (feel free to PM it if you don't want the information on a public board)

Draoinan, how often do you smoke?


That said, I think smoking pot makes some people stupid. Maybe they were stupid before they started, it's hard to tell. However, I have yet to meet someone who smokes on a regular basis who's demonstrated an intelligence level above that of your average 4th grader.
Notice how at no time did I make that statement the absolute you are repeating. I said some people. I said maybe they were stupid before they started. I said I have yet to meet (which would imply to most people that I acknowledge the possibility that there are people out there who can handle it).

A great many of the folks I've met were around college, which adds yet another variable to the mix. Pretty much all of them I don't hang out with anymore - which throws your assumption about my "social circle" to the winds.

As the definition states, prejudice implies that the person has made a decision or judgment without any facts, experience or forethough. In the interest of civil dialogue, are you at least willing to concede that? Because honestly it offends me, and I don't have much interesting continuing a discussion who believes I only hold the opinions I do out of prejudice and not out of experience and factual observances.

[Philbo]

Feel better?

[Klucky]

I haven't read the previous 90,000 posts as of yet. I do not use any drugs. I do not like to take in anything that will make me lose control of my body (and screw all of you who say pot doesn't, take a freakin' lesson). It's illegal for a reason in America.

I knew an extremely smart guy who smoked a lot of pot and did other drugs in highschool. He was extremely intelligent and could have done anything he wanted to with his life. Oh wait, he's freaking dead now. He drove when he was high on pot and drove head on into another car.

Am I hating a group of people? Yes. Will I hate you? No. I can deal with drug addicts over the net, but in person, we would not be friends. I've seen too many deaths caused by "a harmless" drug and seen first hand evidence of it being a "gateway" drug. You all can continue to believe what you want to believe, but I wish people would just open themselves up to the facts without being selfish with their "desires."

Again, I didn't read any of the posts yet, just wanted to voice (i.e., type) my thoughts on the drug subject. This will probably get me some of that negative karma from you drug fans, but whatever. I will not stand idly by and not voice my opinion. Drugs = bad

I will state that there are smart and stupid drug users just as there are smart and stupid people in any sort of group. Although, these smart ones seem to die before their prime due to their addictions. Drugs didn't make these people smart. They were smart before.

Another thank you.

-Klucky

[Mindflayer]

Okay. Let's take a look at this again. And if you'll answer a question for me (feel free to PM it if you don't want the information on a public board)

How often do you smoke?


I don't ;)

[WandererInGray]

I don't ;)
*laughs* Punk, I was talking to Draoinan. I probably should have specified that.

Oh yeah, dear gods people, please do not PM me with how much pot you smoke a day. I really don't care. I just was curious about Draoinan's usage since he seems to have taken the "4th grader" statement personally.

[Spera]

I have a few questions. Most people have explained why they like pot and why they feel responsible enough to deal with the consequences/ if they admit that they are conciquences.

1. Why are you willing to break the law about this? Why is important enough to risk jail, job, life in order to get the things you get from pot?

2. For those of the Wiccan persuasion, what about this line in the Rede: "Live within the law you must in perfect love and perfect trust." I always took this to mean that we as citizens should follow laws, to be good role models.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Okay. Let's take a look at this again. And if you'll answer a question for me (feel free to PM it if you don't want the information on a public board)

How often do you smoke?

It's been suggested I not claim any sort of illegal activity on MW anymore, but I think you already know. Do I honestly seem unintelligent to you? :)


Notice how at no time did I make that statement the absolute you are repeating. I said some people. I said maybe they were stupid before they started. I said I have yet to meet (which would imply to most people that I acknowledge the possibility that there are people out there who can handle it).

As the definition states, prejudice implies that the person has made a decision or judgment without any facts, experience or forethough. In the interest of civil dialogue, are you at least willing to concede that? Because honestly it offends me, and I don't have much interesting continuing a discussion who believes I only hold the opinions I do out of prejudice and not out of experience and factual observances.

Ok. I'm sorry I offended you. I was simply offended myself by the implication I saw as inherent in your statement.

I get that people have bad experiences with drugs and/or people that indulge in them. I really do. Been there, seen the After School Special, etc. You're right; some people can't handle a given drug, just like some people can't handle alcohol, fatty foods, or any other indulgence. Marijuana's no different. Some people are going to react poorly, and some people are going to base their perception of the drug on those people, rather than the silent majority that you'll never know indulges. Some people are going to have no problem, and some people are going to base their perceptions on that group. I'm of the latter persuasion, you're of the former. (shrug)

[~ Monk ~]

*shrug* Besides the illegality (which I find without merit, but that's for another thread) I see no difference between smoking pot, drinking alcohol and, say, eating fatty/unhealthy/fast food. In moderation most people are going to be OK. Go overboard and you may very well end up with problems.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Why are you willing to break the law about this? Why is important enough to risk jail, job, life in order to get the things you get from pot?

Fear in service to illogical and arbitrary social oppression isn't my cup of tea.

[Akhkharu Asgard]

I would also like to add that I believe commiting any action in an out of control / altered state is irresponsible, not resposible like so many people think they are.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

How does one "irresponsibly" sit in the backyard and contemplate the stars?

[Illuminatus]

Akhkharu, control over your life is an illusion. If you did more drugs you would know that!

Sure, marijuana is a gateway drug. But WHY is it a gateway drug? It is a gateway drug because the government makes it one. They outlaw it, so it is relegated solely to the black market, and that just happens to be where all the OTHER drugs live. If it were legalized, it would ceace to be a gateway drug because it would no longer be bound up into the black market. See, the causality runs the other way in this case than the way most people assume.

Addiction is a risk for any behavior, not just drugs and alcohol. Video games, sex, food, cars, pretty much anything you do can become addicted to. Sure, you can play it safe by never trying anything in life, but then what's the point of that? I think drugs are something you should try when you are older, and more leveled out. Older people are more set in their habits, and have found ways for them that work, and are less likely to pick up a new one. My opinion is that alcohol and drugs are something you should do infrequently, like on weekends. You get the benefits without impacting your life too heavily. Moderation is key.

[Spera]

Fear in service to illogical and arbitrary social oppression isn't my cup of tea.

Why illogical?

Why arbitrary?

How is this opressive? (I understand that it keeps people from doing soemthing, but then again you do it anyway, but what is society really losing from this.)

Do you ignore all laws, or just this one?

[WandererInGray]

It's been suggested I not claim any sort of illegal activity on MW anymore, but I think you already know. Do I honestly seem unintelligent to you? :)
With the exception that you risk an awful lot just to get high? ;) No, you seem very intelligent to me.


Ok. I'm sorry I offended you. I was simply offended myself by the implication I saw as inherent in your statement.
Done deal. *smiles* I'm sorry for offending you with my statement.


I get that people have bad experiences with drugs and/or people that indulge in them. I really do. Been there, seen the After School Special, etc. You're right; some people can't handle a given drug, just like some people can't handle alcohol, fatty foods, or any other indulgence. Marijuana's no different. Some people are going to react poorly, and some people are going to base their perception of the drug on those people, rather than the silent majority that you'll never know indulges. Some people are going to have no problem, and some people are going to base their perceptions on that group. I'm of the latter persuasion, you're of the former. (shrug)
Possibly. *smiles* If that's the case, then I'd love to hear from the "silent majority" the reasons for risking so much just to have a little pot.

So help me out here. I think we can talk about it without putting you or MW at risk. And I'd love to hear others answers.

What do you get out of it? What's the point of smoking? I have a hard time believing it's because it tastes good, like drinking a beer or a glass of wine or something, but I suppose that's possible.

Do you honestly believe that it doesn't cause any physical harm or side effects? It was thought a long time ago that alcohol and cigs didn't cause problems, and we now know differently. Or is just that the benefits outweight the possible (either proven or not) dangers?

[Akhkharu Asgard]

How does one "irresponsibly" sit in the backyard and contemplate the stars?

I believe it is irresponsible to your body to give up control of it and/or damage it knowingly.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Why illogical?

What logic is there in a governing body telling which plants I can and can't burn?


Why arbitrary?

Why marijuana, rather than alcohol?


How is this opressive?

How is the government telling you such a thing not oppressive? What will they tell us next, what foods we can eat?


Do you ignore all laws, or just this one?

Not just this one, I'm sure. :) Just because some politician in a suit says it's bad doesn't mean I think it's bad. This is something that should be up to personal choice, just like alcohol. If you get stoned and kill someone in a car crash, you're driving under the influence and should be treated accordingly. If you're sitting in your living room with some friends, what business is it of theirs?

[Akhkharu Asgard]

Akhkharu, control over your life is an illusion. If you did more drugs you would know that!

Moderation is key.

Ok, let's be consistent. If you want to say control is an illusion, then you must say moderation is an illusion as well. I had Philosophy class today, I am so ready to argue that with you! You can really say anything is an illusion, we can all play with words and redefine things to prove our own points. But the fact remains that drugs are unhealthy in any form. So the key is not moderation, it's not doing it. Why risk your health for a short lived and illegal feeling/thrill, when you can be happy legally and healthy by not doing it.

[Spera]

What logic is there in a governing body telling which plants I can and can't burn?
Why marijuana, rather than alcohol?
How is the government telling you such a thing not oppressive? What will they tell us next, what foods we can eat?
Not just this one, I'm sure. :) Just because some politician in a suit says it's bad doesn't mean I think it's bad. This is something that should be up to personal choice, just like alcohol. If you get stoned and kill someone in a car crash, you're driving under the influence and should be treated accordingly. If you're sitting in your living room with some friends, what business is it of theirs?

Well for one smoke affects more than just the person inhaling it, just as cigaretts do. The canceric affects of marijana could just as easy mess up someone breathing it in and burning anything is not going to help the generaly atmosphere right now.

Not that I would drink alchol either. I wish to always be in control of myself, and I , personally, don't feel the need to have soemthing alter my state of mind. I have plenty of other ways to have fun.

What are you saying the government is telling me? Theya re telling me that it is unsafe and they have chosen to outlaw it. They have a right to, we've elected the people who have done it. If we disagree we should elect other people.

You seem to think that you have no power over what the government decides, like it is a one minded macheine.

[merlo]

Pot should be a personal decision and not criminalized. It can be bought legal here in Cali for people with "pain" issues, Aids or chemo patients. Costs about $400 to get a physician to write a scrip, there's Farmicies all over L.A. and it's fairly cheap, with an assortment of THC products. Yea L.A.!!!

:dancy:


:ringaroun

[Old Witch]

Please tell me where he gets his MD license I want to stay far far away.

Chesna


True! I don't want any pothead practicing medicine on me or my pets.... :awilly:

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Possibly. *smiles* If that's the case, then I'd love to hear from the "silent majority" the reasons for risking so much just to have a little pot.

You probably never will, precisely because they're silent. :)


What do you get out of it? What's the point of smoking? I have a hard time believing it's because it tastes good, like drinking a beer or a glass of wine or something, but I suppose that's possible.

Beer and wine don't taste good until you acquire the taste. The point of smoking depends on the person. Why does one meditate? Why does one pray? Why does one take a nap? Why does one put that extra bit of fatty mayo on a sandwich? Why does one take a walk through a forest? The answers are numerous, but one would assume positive, otherwise why do it?

I'm sure you're at least vaguely familiar with the role of altered states (and chemicals to induce them) in spiritual practices around the world.


Do you honestly believe that it doesn't cause any physical harm or side effects?

Not at all. I believe I stated earlier in the thread that inhaling burning plants can't be good for your body. :)


Or is just that the benefits outweight the possible (either proven or not) dangers?

Well, it's like this...one could not smoke, add a couple of years to this life, or one can smoke, cognizant of the cost, and gain the experience thereby. Those who choose to use marijuana are obviously choosing the latter option. I don't believe in ascetic living to extend one's life; we have other ones to get to, so we might as well employ this one to its fullest extent, rather than hoarding it like a miser who's afraid to enjoy what he has for fear of losing it.

From what I understand from those dastardly potheads, the recreational benefits are enough. The spiritual benefits are even better. IF (obligatory, at this point, disclaimer) you can handle it.

[Akhkharu Asgard]

I'm sorry, but that whole spiritual effect is so much bull**it. So is that "It's all about peace and love." line heard by those "Legalize pot" people. You do NOT need drugs to be spiritual. I'm so sick of that cop out line.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Well for one smoke affects more than just the person inhaling it, just as cigaretts do.

One generally doesn't smoke marijuana around those who mind. That's a good way to get pinched. :)


The canceric affects of marijana could just as easy mess up someone breathing it in and burning anything is not going to help the generaly atmosphere right now.

I really don't think any random strangers are going to get cancer from burning marijuana.


Not that I would drink alchol either. I wish to always be in control of myself, and I , personally, don't feel the need to have soemthing alter my state of mind. I have plenty of other ways to have fun.

We all do. Some of us just choose different ways sometimes.


What are you saying the government is telling me? Theya re telling me that it is unsafe and they have chosen to outlaw it. They have a right to, we've elected the people who have done it. If we disagree we should elect other people.

Ok. I choose not to care. That doesn't mean you can't. :)


You seem to think that you have no power over what the government decides, like it is a one minded macheine.

My efforts at change thus far appear to be ineffective. This is surely no different than any number of issues you disagree with the government on (there have to be some).

[Spera]

My efforts at change thus far appear to be ineffective. This is surely no different than any number of issues you disagree with the government on (there have to be some).

Of course there are things I disagree with. George Bush's being in office at all, among many. But, it's my opinion that the adult responsible way to handle disagreement is to work to change the situation, at the same time obeying the construct. Becasue why the hell should they change it if you are going to ignore it anyway. it's just not a respectful way to conduct affairs in my opinion.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

I'm sorry, but that whole spiritual effect is so much bull**it.

Your vast experience in this outweighs my own, I'm sure. :rolleyes:

What kind of statement is that? You get nothing out of it, so it's impossible for anyone else to? Thousands of years of experience are wrong because it doesn't work for you? How bizarre.


So is that "It's all about peace and love." line heard by those "Legalize pot" people.

As evidenced by the hordes of smokers running about killing people.


You do NOT need drugs to be spiritual. I'm so sick of that cop out line.

I don't believe anyone claimed anything of the sort.

[Akhkharu Asgard]

Your vast experience in this outweighs my own, I'm sure. :rolleyes:

What kind of statement is that? You get nothing out of it, so it's impossible for anyone else to? Thousands of years of experience are wrong because it doesn't work for you? How bizarre.



As evidenced by the hordes of smokers running about killing people.



I don't believe anyone claimed anything of the sort.

Heh, you let me have it. My last quoted sentence of yours was an implication I picked up from your statement. Oh and thanks for rolling your eyes at me. I just wanted to say "bull**it"! And no, I do not have any drug induced spiritual experience. Why? Because I have no need for the drugs. Yeah, I know that statement doesn't accomplish much and either do two sides arguing over something. It's rare that anyone is persauded to the other side. I will not use drugs and you (if you do) will continue using them. Nothing is truly accomplished, though the conflicts are kind of fun!

[DraoinanDuanaire]

But, it's my opinion that the adult responsible way to handle disagreement is to work to change the situation, at the same time obeying the construct.

Then we have differing ideas of what's "adult." I see no value inherent in the construct that compels me to such slavish devotion to it. Sometimes the construct is wrong; adhering to it anyway is no marker of maturity, to my mind.

[Spera]

Then we have differing ideas of what's "adult." I see no value inherent in the construct that compels me to such slavish devotion to it. Sometimes the construct is wrong; adhering to it anyway is no marker of maturity, to my mind.

Do you wish the law to change?

If you wish the law to change. You should have respect for the construct of law. Why should the law change for you if you don't respect it in the first place?

Does it hurt people to not smoke marijuana for other than medical reasons?

There are places that don't hold this law.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

Do you wish the law to change?

If you wish the law to change. You should have respect for the construct of law. Why should the law change for you if you don't respect it in the first place?

I perceive a difference between "respect for law" and "blind devotion to whatever the ruling powers declare law."


Does it hurt people to not smoke marijuana for other than medical reasons?

Of course not. Does it hurt you if they do?

[DraoinanDuanaire]

My last quoted sentence of yours was an implication I picked up from your statement.

How does suggesting that some drugs can have positive spiritual benefits imply that one has to use drugs to be spiritual? :)


Oh and thanks for rolling your eyes at me. I just wanted to say "bull**it"!

Done!


And no, I do not have any drug induced spiritual experience. Why? Because I have no need for the drugs.

No one needs drugs for anything but medical purposes. No one has suggested otherwise.

[Spera]

I perceive a difference between "respect for law" and "blind devotion to whatever the ruling powers declare law."

Of course not. Does it hurt you if they do?


What I'm talking about has no devotion to higher powers, just to the institution that happens to bind us as a society. By ignoring one law you are inadvertanly implying that laws are not important, that theya re useless and things that can be ignored. Why then should anyone take the time to change a law for you, youa ren't going to change your behaviour anyway.

And people are hurt by smoking marijuana. People get killed for the things they do when high, not everyone but some. Why wouldn't the government want to have some restriction on this? I don't know that I think theya re going abou it in the completely right way, but, it shows more resilience and maturity to follow a law that doesn't hurt anyone, even though we disagree just for the sake of ourselves to try and get it changed. I am aware that I will not change you opinion to, and I don't actually mean to.

I actually had some really bad expiriences with a college roomate who was a pot smoker. Things I care to not get into. But people ahve been hurt by people smoking pot. I don't know of anyone wh has been hurt becasue the people around her have not.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

What I'm talking about has no devotion to higher powers, just to the institution that happens to bind us as a society. By ignoring one law you are inadvertanly implying that laws are not important, that theya re useless and things that can be ignored.

Only the useless and unimportant ones. I tend to place more importance on what I believe to be right than I do what someone else believes to be right for me.


Why then should anyone take the time to change a law for you, youa ren't going to change your behaviour anyway.

I think it rather evident that I'm not expecting them to change the law.


And people are hurt by smoking marijuana. People get killed for the things they do when high, not everyone but some.

People die from poor eating habits as well. Should the government regulate that?


Why wouldn't the government want to have some restriction on this?

Because it's none of their business what I burn in the privacy of my own home?


I don't know that I think theya re going abou it in the completely right way, but, it shows more resilience and maturity to follow a law that doesn't hurt anyone, even though we disagree just for the sake of ourselves to try and get it changed.

Why? Why does it "show more maturity" to follow a law you believe to be unjust just because it's a law?


I actually had some really bad expiriences with a college roomate who was a pot smoker. Things I care to not get into. But people ahve been hurt by people smoking pot. I don't know of anyone wh has been hurt becasue the people around her have not.

One could make the same argument for any number of things. Why not desire government control of everything? No one would get hurt.

[WandererInGray]

You probably never will, precisely because they're silent. :)
*laughs* Ah well, then they're doing their cause a disservice (by cause I mean the legalization of it) by not speaking up. If more people saw those "silent" ones being able to live their lives, perhaps they wouldn't hang with the perception of the "potheads" as the prime example for why one shouldn't smoke.

*jerks thumb* Like our dear friend there who spells it 'Farmacie', neh?



Beer and wine don't taste good until you acquire the taste. The point of smoking depends on the person.
Good point. :D


Why does one meditate? Why does one pray? Why does one take a nap? Why does one put that extra bit of fatty mayo on a sandwich? Why does one take a walk through a forest? The answers are numerous, but one would assume positive, otherwise why do it?
Well not always. *smiles* Because humans are notorious for doing things that aren't necessarily positive to themselves. Say overeating, self-injury, or war as a few general examples.


I'm sure you're at least vaguely familiar with the role of altered states (and chemicals to induce them) in spiritual practices around the world.
I am, and honestly I disagree with them. For me personally that kind of seems like an "easy way out". A way to achieve states that could potentially be reached with the proper amount of training and effort.

But let's be serious...how many people would you honestly say, percentage-wise, are smoking pot for the "spiritual effects"? :) I'd hazard a guess it's less than 10% of those who smoke.



Not at all. I believe I stated earlier in the thread that inhaling burning plants can't be good for your body. :)
Okay. *grins* Good deal. See I have a great deal of respect for those who freely acknowledge that it's not going to be good for them. That's fine, it's a personal choice and only then am I willing to equate it with alcohol or tobacco. What gets my goat are the section of smokers who seem to like insisting that pot is somehow less harmful than those other two substances.


Well, it's like this...one could not smoke, add a couple of years to this life, or one can smoke, cognizant of the cost, and gain the experience thereby.
What's the experience? The getting high part? *laughs* See 'cause that would lose me right there as I have no basis for comparison. Despite going to school at CU Boulder I've never even tried pot, so I don't know what being "high" feels like.


Those who choose to use marijuana are obviously choosing the latter option. I don't believe in ascetic living to extend one's life; we have other ones to get to, so we might as well employ this one to its fullest extent, rather than hoarding it like a miser who's afraid to enjoy what he has for fear of losing it.
*laughs* Well I don't believe in ascetic living to extend one's life either. What I believe in is living in the present moment, however, I seem to be managing just fine without having to resort to mind-altering drugs to enhance the experience. (I'm not saying that's what you're doing, mind you, :) just that that seems what your statement implies. By not smoking pot I'm missing out on some grand experience? *shrugs* I'm going to miss out on a lot of those, it's pretty nigh impossible to experience everything in the first go around.

Hey Draoinan, thanks for taking the time to have this discussion. *smiles* I really appreciate it.

From what I understand from those dastardly potheads, the recreational benefits are enough. The spiritual benefits are even better. IF (obligatory, at this point, disclaimer) you can handle it.[/QUOTE]

[Spera]

Bah, it's very hard to argue things when one is generally moderate, I come off more conservative or more liberal than I am. *shrugs* There is a big difference between food and drugs, hence them having different names.

To me maturity involves patience and moderation and putting other things above ones own personal pleasure.

And while I believe in individual liberties, I worry about people who can't handle it, who have no idea that they can't handle it. How do we stop them? How do we help them?

*shrugs* With this I will now go write my two papers I need to finish, I wish everyone a great day, this was an interesting discussion.

[DraoinanDuanaire]

*laughs* Ah well, then they're doing their cause a disservice (by cause I mean the legalization of it) by not speaking up. If more people saw those "silent" ones being able to live their lives, perhaps they wouldn't hang with the perception of the "potheads" as the prime example for why one shouldn't smoke.

Possibly. I don't appear to be having any problems leading my life, so there's one down for you.


Because humans are notorious for doing things that aren't necessarily positive to themselves. Say overeating, self-injury, or war as a few general examples.

Moderation is the key. What "moderation" means to a given individual might vary considerably, though.



I'm sure you're at least vaguely familiar with the role of altered states (and chemicals to induce them) in spiritual practices around the world.

I am, and honestly I disagree with them. For me personally that kind of seems like an "easy way out". A way to achieve states that could potentially be reached with the proper amount of training and effort.

Ok. I respect that. No one has to use drugs; I honestly can't really explain why one would want to to those without a positive experience. Of course, if you'd had a positive spiritual experience under the effects of drugs, we wouldn't be debating anything on this, would we? :)


But let's be serious...how many people would you honestly say, percentage-wise, are smoking pot for the "spiritual effects"? I'd hazard a guess it's less than 10% of those who smoke.

Possibly. My statistical set is a bit skewed because I tend to socialize with the type of user that does employ various substances for spiritual reasons, in addition to recreational.


Good deal. See I have a great deal of respect for those who freely acknowledge that it's not going to be good for them. That's fine, it's a personal choice and only then am I willing to equate it with alcohol or tobacco. What gets my goat are the section of smokers who seem to like insisting that pot is somehow less harmful than those other two substances.

That seems to be largely self-delusion in some cases.


What's the experience? The getting high part? *laughs* See 'cause that would lose me right there as I have no basis for comparison. Despite going to school at CU Boulder I've never even tried pot, so I don't know what being "high" feels like.

I don't really know how to explain it, then. :) To me (based on my, um, past experiences when I was younger or something), marijuana is a mild soma. It opens doors of perception that one might miss when trying to replicate it under one's own power. It eases the transition to an altered state. It's a means, not an end.


Well I don't believe in ascetic living to extend one's life either. What I believe in is living in the present moment, however, I seem to be managing just fine without having to resort to mind-altering drugs to enhance the experience.

Don't assume that those who choose to engage in a given activity are inferior and need that activity to reach the same point as yourself without it. I can eat a sandwich without some fatty Havarti on it and still be fed, but I really enjoy the difference the cheese makes. Different strokes, I suppose.


(I'm not saying that's what you're doing, mind you, just that that seems what your statement implies. By not smoking pot I'm missing out on some grand experience? *shrugs* I'm going to miss out on a lot of those, it's pretty nigh impossible to experience everything in the first go around.

As I said, different strokes. :)


Hey Draoinan, thanks for taking the time to have this discussion. *smiles* I really appreciate it.

No problem. One size doesn't fit all, and I hope we can all be fine with that.

[gwendar]

I guess I don't have anything new to add to the discussion, but I want to add my thoughts anyway.

I don't use drugs other than caffiene, acetominaphin, and (rarely) alcohol.
I have no interest in any other recreational drugs. But I don't think that marijuana should be illegal.
If used in a way that no one is being hurt, I don't see the problem.
I have been hurt by a person who smoked pot while we were dating. Basically I was less important than his drugs. Because of this, I have chosen not to date people who do more drugs than I do, unless they are used for medicinal purposes. This is my choice, and it protects me from having to experience being treated as having less value than a plant and/or chemical again.

But I have no problems at all having friendships with people who smoke pot. That's their choice, and many pot users are good people who have things to offer. For example, a (non-close) friend of mine smokes a LOT of dope, but I like him. I don't see him very often because he lives in a different town, but when we talk, we discuss books and writing and religion. Very good conversations that take place when I'm under the influence of alcohol, and he's under the influence of both alcohol and marijuana.

So... the point of my rambling is.... Make your own decisions, but don't hurt your friends and loved ones.

[ravenmyst]

I know people who have smoked there entire adult lives, have degrees, successful businesses. I know others that that are failures. When Grandma was dying with cancer, the doc said either get her to smoke it, or feed it to her, she wasnt smoking it so brownies it was. It helped a little, deadened the pain a bit, gave her an appetite for a bit. I am not going to one to say what others should or shouldnt do

[CloakofStars9]

The Beatles
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v98.n061.a10.html

Ray Charles
http://www.gamblingmagazine.com/articles/39/39-16.htm

Founding Fathers of the United States of America
http://www.pdxnorml.org/7_presidents.html

Dr. Carl Sagan
For his work, Dr. Sagan has received the NASA Medals for Exceptional Scientific Achievement and for Distinguished Public Service twice, as well as the NASA Apollo Achievement Award.
http://www.pass-drug-tests.com/testinfo/carl_sagan.html

[Druchii]

I just re-read this whole damn thread and just realized that the discussion of pot smoking gives me one thing. A migraine.

I didn't want to re-read it at first, but like a train wreck I kept on looking. :lol:

It basically comes down to this then in my head. No one can justify either way, whether it is wrong or right, whether it should be legal or not, or whether it is damaging or not.

I do know that the last thing I would spend my money on would be a bag of dried out plant fiber that I would literally see as money earned then burned.
I see that it has also been defined as an escape of sorts. I can always go see a movie if I need that. And besides, there is nothing in life I want to escape from.
And for whatever ends, there is still the legal trouble one can get into for buying, possession, or selling of it. I am WAY too lazy to go through all that rigamarole and stuff to really justify it.
BUT, seeing as how I have still never done it, and have no plans on doing so. I could totally be missing the boat on this one.

But I still got a migraine. :lol:

[Rev R]

What an appropriate topic. Happy 4:20 everyone.

[Toriach]

Ya know what I find interesting? It seems to Me that every time someone disagrees strongly enough with a law that they engage in breaking it as an act of civil disobedience, there is always someone around to talk or preach about how laws are the only thing that binds us as society, and how all laws should be sacrosanct, and that the only viable recourse is to work through the system to get the law changed and altered and how it's never right to disobey a law just because you don't like it or agree with it.

Happens with drugs, happens with homosexuality and other immoral acts, (oral sex, sodomy etc) happened with segregation. So I'm curious. Could they pass a law in this country that was so wrong that even the most law abiding would decide that they could not in good conscience follow it?

Just a midnight snack for thought.

T
I
E

Toriach

[Flar's Freyja]

If I didn't have to worry about random testing, I'd be smokin' it, especially since I have chronic pain that even narcotic prescription drugs don't touch.

[Spera]

Ya know what I find interesting? It seems to Me that every time someone disagrees strongly enough with a law that they engage in breaking it as an act of civil disobedience, there is always someone around to talk or preach about how laws are the only thing that binds us as society, and how all laws should be sacrosanct, and that the only viable recourse is to work through the system to get the law changed and altered and how it's never right to disobey a law just because you don't like it or agree with it.

Happens with drugs, happens with homosexuality and other immoral acts, (oral sex, sodomy etc) happened with segregation. So I'm curious. Could they pass a law in this country that was so wrong that even the most law abiding would decide that they could not in good conscience follow it?

Just a midnight snack for thought.

T
I
E

Toriach

Yup. In all intents and purposes I am a hypocrite ;)

I understand government regulating drugs and alchol, but not human relationship. No one gets to tell you who to love. As long as you are loving consentually, and at an age where consentuality is actually possible. And the government will never make me hate anyone. It does not get to pick how I relate with people. Though they can tell me not to hurt people.

[Mindflayer]

I just re-read this whole damn thread and just realized that the discussion of pot smoking gives me one thing. A migraine.

I didn't want to re-read it at first, but like a train wreck I kept on looking. :lol:

It basically comes down to this then in my head. No one can justify either way, whether it is wrong or right, whether it should be legal or not, or whether it is damaging or not.



Wrong or Right? Up to the individual to decide
It should be legal
It is damaging



Simple really :p

[Chesna]

Why? There are a LOT more professionals that smoke pot than you realize... some of them probably handle your money, your property, the laws that you follow so... everything.

Or is this an "Out of sight, out of mind" thing?

If ever find out about it I would report them to their licensing board seeif I have grounds to sue their a$% and find someone else.

Safety of my family comes first.

Chesna

[Chesna]

Look, no amount of propaganda is going to convince me that smoking pot is a Good Thing™ just like no amount of my opinion that it turns people into fools will convince you to stop smoking.

They're actually not all around me. *smiles* Because I make a serious effort not to associate with people who do drugs. Plain and simple. I don't give a rat's ass if it's coke or pot or any other stupid, illegal drug. I don't want you around me. That's a personal choice on my part. I don't care if people do it or not, but I chose not to associate with people "IRL" who do.


_handclapp
And I am right there with you!!!!

Chesna

[Fane Ayuma]

im after clocking up my fair share of drugs, iv used quite a bit.Coke , Extasy, Mushrooms, Cannabis, smarties, Uppers , downers, Valium To name a few, but after iv done them all, i dont do them again (Cannabis excepting).I do want to try, and thats all i do.Iv done each of them once, and havent done them again.

I do smoke cannabis regularly, but iv cut down a bit of late.

[trippingdaisy]

In moderation, theres absolutely nothing wrong with cannabis in my opinion. Same as alcohol. Medicinal, recreational, I dont care, its up to them, and I dont think they should be criminalising people for it.

I've mentioned my own previous drug habit on this site before, so I wont bore anyone with it again, but I didnt mention was that there was another drug that I used to take regularly which changed my entire personality in a very frightening and erratic way and my ability to interact with anyone for 6 months. Seroxat. It was given to me by the doctor, and it clashed with my anti-convulsants and sent me lala. Having a mother rattling with valium was a barrell of laughs when I was younger, too.

I suppose I'm not trying to make any real point here, except wonder why should something like valium be legal, and cannabis isnt, when - just for starters- its not nearly as addictive.

[Raven Reed]

Personally, I think it's silly that alcohol is legal and pot isn't. I would vote to legalize it.

That being said, in real life, I don't drink or smoke pot, nor do I associate with those who do either. I have issues with people out of control on various substances, including myself, and to keep ME from getting into trouble, I have to maintain a separation from people using, even recreationally, including alcohol.

[Gwenhwyfar]

I just re-read this whole damn thread and just realized that the discussion of pot smoking gives me one thing. A migraine.

I didn't want to re-read it at first, but like a train wreck I kept on looking. :lol:

It basically comes down to this then in my head. No one can justify either way, whether it is wrong or right, whether it should be legal or not, or whether it is damaging or not.

I do know that the last thing I would spend my money on would be a bag of dried out plant fiber that I would literally see as money earned then burned.
I see that it has also been defined as an escape of sorts. I can always go see a movie if I need that. And besides, there is nothing in life I want to escape from.
And for whatever ends, there is still the legal trouble one can get into for buying, possession, or selling of it. I am WAY too lazy to go through all that rigamarole and stuff to really justify it.
BUT, seeing as how I have still never done it, and have no plans on doing so. I could totally be missing the boat on this one.

But I still got a migraine. :lol:
Nope, your on the boat.... going on vacation cause you didnt spend all your cash on weed. lol.

[Druchii]

Nope, your on the boat.... going on vacation cause you didnt spend all your cash on weed. lol.



!?.. hmmm you may have a point there! :lol: Carribean cruise or an attack of the munchies at 3am...

I think I'll pick the cruise. :D