Nine Sacred Woods

[Ivy Artemisia]

What type of trees are the nine sacred woods from? I've googled it, and I get something different each time. It would be great if you could help me. :)

[Gabriel Le Chat]

Interesting question. I believe as stated in the wiccan rede as it pertains to the Beltane fire, the woods are: birch, oak, rowan, willow, hawthorn, hazel, apple, grapevine, and fir.

But I'm sure if you look hard enough, you'll be able to find different woods from other traditions. Afterall, if those woods aren't available in a given area, other woods (with the same properties) would be substituted for the fire.

Hope this helps!

Peace,
Gabriel

[Ivy Artemisia]

I didn't think about substituting woods with the same properties. Brillant. And thanks!

[Jendell]

I have not head of it.

[Morgandria]

The nine sacred trees as I know them are Alder, Ash, Birch, Elm, Hawthorne, Hazel, Oak, Rowan, and Willow. That's as I understand them from the Irish recon work I've done....I don't know how the nine woods would relate to the Wiccan Rede, seeing as it's only 8 words long.

[Kendrah]

The nine sacred trees as I know them are Alder, Ash, Birch, Elm, Hawthorne, Hazel, Oak, Rowan, and Willow. That's as I understand them from the Irish recon work I've done....I don't know how the nine woods would relate to the Wiccan Rede, seeing as it's only 8 words long.

The Wiccan rede is more the eight woods long. Google it. One of the passages, however, is:

'Nine woods in the cauldron go
burn them fast and burn them slow
Elder be ye Lady's tree
burn it not or cursed ye'll be.'

You can find more information on the nine woods out there. There is some lore in my tradition. Also, the White Goddess has the whole battle of the trees in it. A lot of tree lore in that book.

[Morgandria]

No...the Rede of the Wiccae is more than eight words long. It is not the same as the Wiccan Rede.

[Kendrah]

No...the Rede of the Wiccae is more than eight words long. It is not the same as the Wiccan Rede.

The Rede of the Wiccae and the Wiccan Rede are the same thing. The eight words comes from the rede. Unless I'm mistaken, then please offer me a link that proves otherwise for the two of them.

[Morgandria]

http://www.waningmoon.com/ethics/rede1.shtml


Today's Wiccan ethics largely center on the Wiccan Rede: If it harms none, do what you will. Longer versions are in circulation adding poetry or personal views (or both), but these eight words are the basis of these variants and best sum up the nature of Wiccan ethics: to harm none.

http://www.magickdream.com/wolfrose/den/index.php?id=rede.inc



Rede Of The Wiccae
(Being Knowne As The Counsel Of The Wise Ones)
Submitted By Lady Gwen Thompson & Adriana Porter
First Published In Green Egg Magazine
Vol. III. No. 69 (Ostara 1975)

*shrugs* If you think the whole Lady Gwen Thompson poem is the Rede, then so be it. I wasn't taught that it is, and I won't.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Yep, I believe the Wiccan Rede is just "an ye harm none, do what ye will"

Here are some posts discussing it:
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=1735648&postcount=13
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=1735765&postcount=19

Incidentally, in an Amber K book I have, there is a shorter poem containing the Rede that goes:
"Bide the Wiccan law ye must,
In perfect love, in perfect trust.
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill:
An' ye harm none, do what ye will
What ye send forth comes back to thee,
so ever mind the Rule of Three
Follow this with Mind and Heart,
and Merry ye meet, and Merry ye part."
I could very well say that THIS is the Rede and all others are false if we were going on nothing more than "this is what I've read"...

Still, the earliest, I believe, mention of anything like a Rede is in the 60's with Doreen Valiente (An' ye harm none, do what ye will.).... The long poem developed later (pub. 1975).... So, it depends on what matters to you which you use, but generally, since the eight words is what every "wiccan rede" out there has in common, that's all we can reliably say is the Wiccan Rede when conversing with other Wiccans.... if you personally like the poetry, use it personally... ^_^

Back to the topic, in A-S lore, there is a lacnunga (http://www.heorot.dk/woden-9herbs.html) (leech-lore/herb-lore) charm that names nine sacred herbs .... also here (http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kjolly/nineherbs.htm), which calls the second half as the "lay of the nine twigs of woden".... Not trees, no, but NINE and SACRED... two outta three ain't bad? ^_^ hey, twigs are woody! ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[ap Dafydd]

As far as I know, it doesn't actually specify which nine trees were used.

The original reference is here

http://www.red4.co.uk/Folklore/trevelyan/welshfolklore/chapt2.htm

which as you can see, just says that they gathered the wood of nine _different_ trees

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[Kendrah]

I don't understand how you can differeniat between the two. And it 'of the' and it becomes a different thing? (Semantics! Semantics! Ahhh!) I do believe nowadays the Wiccan Rede has become the eight words (as that's the most importance that is placed on the Rede), but I don't think it was formed to be two different pieces.

[-Ember]

Common usage refers to both as the "wiccan rede" . If you google it you'll find both under that title. Often differentiated as the "long rede" and the "short rede". I believe I've seen both refered to as the "rede of the wicca" as well. If you want to hold to official titles and consider varients, it is possible to claim only a small number are the "rede of the wicca" with a number of long rede variants titled "wiccan rede."

[Ben Gruagach]

The long poem is "The Rede of the Wiccae" (it was published under that title by Lady Gwen Thompson as mentioned in an earlier post in this thread.)

Lady Gwen is the originator of that poem. She says she got it from her grandmother, but no one has any proof of that. Lady Gwen didn't start sharing the poem with other people until after Doreen Valiente had said in a 1964 speech, "Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfil: An it harm none, do what you will."

The best summary of the difference between Lady Gwen's poem and the Wiccan Rede (which is just the eight word phrase) is on this page (http://www.waningmoon.com/ethics/rede3.shtml) of that essay that Morgandria linked previously.

Sure, people have mistakenly called Lady Gwen's poem "The Wiccan Rede." It doesn't mean they are correct. The Rede is just the eight-word phrase, and the poem is something else that happens to include the Rede at the end. Lady Gwen's poem isn't the only one to include the Wiccan Rede in it somewhere.

Apparently there are slightly different versions of Lady Gwen's poem going around too. I would consider the one at the link I gave in this post to be the version most likely to be the original version, as it's the one that Lady Gwen submitted to Green Egg magazine to be published.

Getting back to the nine woods used for lighting special fires, they talk about the process a bit in The Golden Bough (http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/frazer/gb06204.htm) although they don't mention what the nine types of wood are supposed to be. Oak is clearly one of them, but they don't say what the other types were. The number nine seems to be significant for some of the Beltane traditions they talk about too.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Rede stuffI'm gonna have to go with Ben here. Valiente's was the earliest form that we have. If you like the poem, fine, but just be aware that when you quote words from the poem and say it's from the Rede, a lot of people will be confused because they only take the earliest form to be the 'true' form.


Getting back to the nine woods used for lighting special fires, they talk about the process a bit in The Golden Bough (http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/frazer/gb06204.htm) although they don't mention what the nine types of wood are supposed to be. Oak is clearly one of them, but they don't say what the other types were. The number nine seems to be significant for some of the Beltane traditions they talk about too.lol, I looked it up, too, but was disappointed that no mention of which nine woods were used. (Though a good search term is "need-fire", I found)... and since someone mentioned White Goddess, the only two instances of "need-fire" (there are none of "nine woods" or any variant that I could find) are references to the Golden Bough. ^_^ Though there is mention of a man made of the fruits of nine kinds of trees in the Battle of the Trees, that Graves says was originally nine trees (no fruit): sloe?, elder, whitethorn, blackthorn, yew, ash, poplar, oak, reed... I don't know...

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[raven grimassi]

What type of trees are the nine sacred woods from? I've googled it, and I get something different each time. It would be great if you could help me. :)

For what it may be worth, over the past several years I have researched a variety of texts from various literary and historical sources. The oldest references, that are in agreement with one another, indicate that the nine sacred woods are/were:

1. Birch
2. oak
3. Rowan
4. Willow
5. Hawthorn
6. Hazel
7. Apple
8. Fir
9. Vine

Here is an excerpt from my Encyclopedia of Wicca & Witchcraft (new expanded & revised edition 2003):


"In occult lore, birch is said to have the power to block or banish evil spirits. To the oak is ascribed the power of protection. The rowan is described as possessing power to summon spirits from the Otherworld. The willow is said to be an Underworld pathway. Legend states that the hawthorn is a guardian of doorways to the Fairy Realm. Hazel is believed to be a door or gateway to the Otherworld. Apple is described as the Silver Bough or Faerywood of Avalon, and is the key that opens the door to the Otherworld. In occult lore the fir is attributed with the power to invoke visions, and the vine is believed to be able to invoke oracle powers."

"If we put the lore of the nine sacred woods together, the following portrait emerges. A guardian (hawthorn) stands before the gateway to the Otherworld/Underworld. A key (apple) opens the doorway to the Otherworld (hazel). The pathway (willow) to and from the hidden realm is then accessed. From the hidden realm, spirits are summoned (rowan) and visions (fir) arise. Oracle (vine) is then spoken and received. Protection (oak) must be in place during this work, and evil spirits must be banished (birch) away. lest they enter into the material world".

I hope this was helpful.

Best regards - Raven