Morgan Le fey- lady of the lake?

[Aikaterine]

Morgan Le Fey- The Lady of the Lake
The lady of the lake A Historical legend depicted from Arthurian Times That will always remain an un-finished story surround in myth, mystery and the un-known.

Legend has it......

"The Lady of the Lake said to off been the foster mother of the Arthurian knight, Sir Lancelot and raised him beneath the waters of her Lake (This by legend is meant to be on a small island just off Avolon. She is known for her gift to King Arthur of his magical sword, Excalibur, as she raised the sword up to the sky from her Lake. It is said that Merlin, King Arthur's advisor, first met the Lady of the Lake at the Fountain of Barenton, in Brittany, and fell so in love with her that he taught her all his magical powers.
The Lady soon became not only Merlin's scribe/appentice, but his lover too. But within those years, the Lady's powers grew so great that she outgrew even Merlin, and she imprisoned him inside the Glass Tower.
She was quick to step into Merlin's role as King's advisor to some extent, but without Merlin bought the end of the King's reign, and the Lady reclaimed Excalibur at the Battle of Camlann, where the King was killed. The sword was hurled deep into the murky depths of the Lady's Lake. She returned once more as one of the three Queens to escort her King to Avalon.



Most often she is referred too as Vivienne or Nimue. Nimue is said to be related to Mneme, or Mnemosyne, one of the nine water nymph muses of Greek and Roman mythology who gave swords, rather like Arthur's Excalibur, to the hero Perseus. The name Vivienne comes from the Celtic name, "Vi-Vianna", a variant of "Co-Viana", which is another name for the Celtic water goddess, Coventina. But, bearing in mind Latin pronunciation, the name Vivienne probably relates to Merlin's wife's name, Gwendoloena.

Water deities were very popular in Celtic society because they controlled the essence of life itself. The Free ready movement of any natural water source showed, to the Celts, the sheer power of the goddesses, nymphs and faeries that lived within.

Offerings to water for good luck were commonplace and even today, we throw coins into wishing wells, and refer to the Lady of the Lake as "Lady Luck". The Lady was most celebrated at her shrine on Brocolitia, on Hadrian's Wall. Here, a temple surrounded a pool fed by a sacred spring.

Morgan le Fay, another water nymph, is largely believed nowadays to have been Merlin's scribe and lover, not the Lady of the Lake, it is believed that these two women are in fact variants of the same person. Especially seeing as Morgan le Fay is also included as one of the three Queens who escorted Arthur to Avalon.

(resources from various websites)

[Morgandria]

Morgan le Fey is a fictional character.

[IvyWitch]

Morgan le Fey and The Lady of the Lake are two different characters with very different roles in the stories.

[RubyRose]

Morgan le Fey and The Lady of the Lake are two different characters with very different roles in the stories.

Exactly what I was going to say.

The only link between Morgan le Faye and the Laby of the Lake, is in Marion Zimmer Bradley's book, which again is fiction.

[Aikaterine]

Ah but whose to say, I've added a paragraphy above that original had forgotten, that article is many about the question of a link between the to the connection that quite a few people write about. What makes a character fictional? if you didn't believe? i could very easily call the deity Lugh or a Bel fictional as only legends and stories mark they're excistence.
If you go to Celtic Gods and Goddesses (http://www.joellessacredgrove.com/Celtic/deitiesl-m.html) they have a good piece on her

Editted to remove quote

[Seren_]

Ah but whose to say, I've added a paragraphy above that original had forgotten, that article is many about the question of a link between the to the connection that quite a few people write about. What makes a character fictional? if you didn't believe? i could very easily call the deity Lugh or a Bel fictional as only legends and stories mark they're excistence.

This is true, but by looking at the historical evidence, we can see that the characters like the Lady of the Lake get picked up on and fictionalised by the Normans after they invaded Britain and gained an enthusiasm for these tales. It was the Normans who added the whole chivalry and romanticism, the character of Lancelot and so forth.

The Lady of the Lake is a very marginal, peripheral character to the Welsh tale of her found in the Mabinogion, having very little to do with king Arthur. In this earliest tale, she has no name, let alone several...

On the other hand, Lugh has a much larger body of myth and legend associated with him, a festival named after him and comparable deities like Llew Llaw Gyffess in Welsh myth and Lugos found on Gaulish epigraphy. So the body of evidence for his divinity is slightly stronger.

A Quote from Celtic Gods and Goddesses (http://www.joellessacredgrove.com/Celtic/deitiesl-m.html)

You need to be careful about copyright (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?postid=130184&postcount=1) when pulling stuff straight from another website, like you've done here, even when you do cite your source.

[sari0009]

Morgan Le Fey- The Lady of the Lake

You may enjoy Goddess Coventina, celebrated for her shrine at Brocolitia (Carrawburgh) on Hadrian's Wall -- see Coventina's Well mentioned at http://www.roman-britain.org/places/brocolitia.htm and especially the picture at http://www.antipope.org/feorag/wells/hope/graphics/coventina-01.jpg.

http://www.britannia.com/history/biographies/nimue.html (see "Ancient Origins" section toward the bottom)

I didn't write 'em, but feel free to discuss them. I think they could have been written a bit better (for clarity's and accuracy's sake).

[ajna]

Who's to say that it is "fiction"? Legends tend to be written from some sort of truth ands elaborated by social truths along the way. Arthur is a legend and has too many fictions written about his story to know where any of them originated. The first manifestation of Arthur is as a celtic tribal warlord in the Mabinogion which could give a realistic base to the story due to the oral traditions, and exaggerations, of the Celts. Anything added to his story was done so to interest audiences, kings and queens mostly, in the Catholic morals -- as well as the flattery of their own vanities -- of the tragedie. The characters that appear later, such as Morgaine, all have some sort of basis to them though not necessarily to the Arthur story.
It would not be beyond all reason to say that the character Morgan le Fey was an amalgomation of many Celtic water deities made into a character in the legend to represent the 'wickedness' that paganism can bring to any 'good christian kingdom'. (please excuse any misspellings it is -- by far -- not my forte)

[Aikaterine]

You have all made some further and Good points thankyou for posting them :)

You need to be careful about copyright when pulling stuff straight from another website, like you've done here, even when you do cite your source.

Cheers have editted to demand the use of link ;)

Have looked at the sites you've posted briefly Sari0009 and they are already looking a good ready, shall post my opinions later today :)

[jelly.belly]

Exactly what I was going to say.

The only link between Morgan le Faye and the Laby of the Lake, is in Marion Zimmer Bradley's book, which again is fiction.

Actually, although she is most often talken about as one of the Nine Morgens of Avalon, she is sometimes reffered to as the Lady of the Lake. Some say there were several Ladies, so that would mean that it is possible that Morgan was in fact one of them. But the characters are often mixed up, so Vivianne and Ninianne are often seen either as two seperate characters or as one character, sometimes, even Morgan and Vivianne are confused and Morgan and Morgawse. It's probably why Marion Zimmer Bradley placed her characters as she did, because her story used many of the legends and she tried to "explain" it in a way, but it doesn't mean that because she wrote a work of fiction, with her own explanations and meaning, that it's not based on some things that are "true" (or in this case might be true).

The legend of King Arthur and his court were probably based on a true king, things might have been amplified, but it doesn't mean for sure that he was a completly fictional character.

[Merrick]

It is said that Morgan Le Fay and the lady of the lake (somtimes called Vivanne or even Nimue (who is in my beliefs a different character altogether)) were actually half sisters. I don't know if this is true or not but i can assure you they were completely different characters. I don't think they were sisters though because its not possible for the Lady of the Lake and Morgan to be sisters as Morgan was the child of the Lady Igraine and the Duke of Cornwall. Morgan's real sister was named Morgawise (excuse the spelling) and Igraine was later to have an affair with King Uther who was in disguise as the Duke and together they had a son - Arthur. This uniting turned Morgan against her half brother and thus she turned to witchcraft and became the powerful witch we all know her to be.

[WhimsicalTorture]

Margan Le Fey is a fictional character derived from a woman called Morgaine or Morigayne, who lived during roughly the time when Arthur was king. The Lady of the Lake is usually called Nimue, since she was the last one who technically existed. Vivianne was a name they found someplace on a tomb near the lake believed to be possibly the same lake spoken of in the legends, and it had a lot of symbols of power and such carved into it, so they believed her to be one of the Ladies of the Lake. They also believe she was related to Margaine/Morigayne because of...something I don't remember. I shall try to find the website again!

Marion Zimmer Bradley's book is fiction, but she researched a lot of things to make it as accurate as possible, while still being a good story.

[Morgandria]

What time exactly, was that, that Arthur was King? Must have missed that in my history classes....

[ancestral_lee]

morgan is a later invention. arthur was never king of britain.

if anything there was a chap who was ome sort of tribal warlord who did kick saxon arse back in the 6th century.

as far as mythology is concerned, he appears in the mabinogion as a helpful person.

the rest of the story such as the lady of the lake and morgan la fey are much later additions who were totally fictional and have no historical basis. the hint here is the 'la' - its french and not welsh/brythonic.

the later romances involving arthur are just that - fictionalisations and romances that are VERY highly invented. im a firm believer that our ancestors were ancestor worhsippers and those who proved themselves in life went on to become gods - see the threads about Blodeuwedd or Rhiannon. that being the case - the semi-deification of arthur is following on in a simliar way - how cool is that, we are still doing what our ancestors were doing in this day and age, its almost as if its a natural thing for us to do.

so, i have no problems in the 'semi-deification' oif arthur because he does have some sort of histrical basis. i do however have slight problems about the deification of invented persons. i have a strong bias towards things that are real and not fiction, that said, if people are aware of all of this and still want to continue working on morgan then fine - just dont try to tell me she is a 'real' person from 1400 years ago. be honest and open.