pledge of allegiance

[Lilu]

OK, to get a discussion going, let's talk the PLEDGE! :eek:

This was on the local radio yesterday, and they actually read my email about Wicca and such on the radio, was very cool!

So, has anyone had anything come up with their children in school or whatever to do with the pledge? Do you think it should be said in schools? Kept out of schools? Edited to include all religions or no religion (keeping in mind atheists)? One woman who phoned in to the radio station said that the "one nation under God" line was only added in the 1950s for instance, so what's to stop us from taking it out? etc etc.

Thoughts? Comments? Throw a stone? ;)

BB
Lilu

[clef0628]

Back in school we said it as a class. So, I just left out the word God when, I said it. No one ever noticed. Personaly, I think they should edit it so, it does not say "one nation under god". The USA is a melting pot of religions. I would also like to see "in god we trust" taken off our mony. But, that's just how I feel. I would tell my kid to do what I did and just leave out that line when saying it. Unless your doing it solo for a grade or something, most people won't notice.

[Margie]

I went to Catholic school my whole life and in high school the had added..."...with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn!" :eek: I didn't say "one nation under god" or "born and unborn".

[Swanspirit]

"born and unborn" Cheesh the lengths to which some people will go........
I think this is a good topic......... because eventually the U.S. is going to have to acknowledge that as much as we love to applaud the IDEA that we are a diverse nation...we dont acknowledge it in actions........ and that we largely and for the most part represent ourselves as a christian nation ( I know the majority are )in DEED if not in word ... and most of the valuse we espouse as Americans are based in a christian ethic........
But I do like the idea of changing the Pledge.. what would happen if we substituted In SPIRIT for under god...........


I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation in spirit with liberty and justice for all .........
just an idea.........whatcha think?
Love and light
Swannie

[Margie]

:thumbsup: to you Swanspirit, I agree

[Lilu]

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation in spirit with liberty and justice for all ......... "

I rather like it.

My thoughts have always been along the lines of keeping it out of the schools anyway. In my opinion, you live your patriotism, and I don't consider anyone a patriot just because they can read back the pledge of allegiance to me. And I think our kids see this in the home - if you don't have pride in your country, then all the talk in the world isn't going to teach your children to have it. *shrug*

I think alot of my thoughts are different because I'm not American. My children will be half-american, half-australian. And Australia has a pledge of allegiance too - which is overlooked for kids of dual-nationality. Just because they live in one country doesn't mean they have to pledge to just THAT country - especially when they are of dual nationality. If my kids are going to saying the American one, they are also going to be saying the Australian one (let's not get into IT'S wording though! Sheesh! haha)

I think the pledges are a nice thing to teach your children - if you teach them the MEANING behind it, so many people have said they said it in school and it meant nothing to them until recently, and I think it's sad. I personally think that if it's important to you, you should be doing it at home with your kids instead of relying on a school to do it for you. And where you can change the wording to suit your particular beliefs if need be. But I still think the official one needs to be changed to embrace all religious (or non-religious, as in atheists) beliefs.

Just my 2c.
BB
Lilu

[Swanspirit]

Even the atheists...... dont have to take it ( the spirit) as a "deity " but rather a modifier of how we feel as a nation...........
hmmm ok now

and a TOTALLY OT MOMENT
Now I want to go ask the atheists ( at paltalk ) what they think about concepts like "school spirit " and team spirit " and how it relates to the NO SPIRIT stuff they generally spew .......hehehehe who is the GOddess of instigation....

Love and light
Swannie

[clef0628]

http://fyi.cnn.com/2001/fyi/teachers.ednews/10/16/pledge.controversy.ap/index.html

[WaterRaven]

ha! we just talked about this in my english class about a week ago and we were supposed to re-write it with what it ment to us! I left out the "under god" part. my teacher said that "under god" wasnt added until the 50's. she also said that everyone has their own version of god and its a good idea that it was in there.



Water Raven

[SnowStar]

I do beleive that we got into a discussion about the addition of "Under God" to the pledge in my US History class last year. If memory serves it was added in the '50s as an anti-communist measure. Personally, I think "One nation, indivisible" works quite fine. That's how I say it anyway. For years I couldn't figure out why I didn't like saying the pledge and for awhile I just didn't because it bugged me so much. Finally when I was able to pinpoint what and why I was able to just leave it out (since it wasn't there originally anyway) and go on with things without feeling like I was about to go batty.

[Lilu]

I like the "one nation indivisible" too.

BB
Lilu

[random]

I have quit saying the pledge for going on 4yrs now... I refuse to pledge to something I do not fully understand, I am yet to understand the going ons of the government... The "under god" was another reason... heh, and just for kicks, i usually cross out the "in god we trust" on the back of my bills... Wasn't there a time period for which that wasn't on there? A president that took the freedom of religion seriously?

I am confused by Bush saying that what we are doing now is not a 'holy war', yet he keeps making refrences to his beliefs...

Hmm.. I did not say the pledge at my 8th grad. last year, no one but those by me noticed... though, for the anthem, I do stand, but do not sing... I do have respect for this nation, but am still unsure what it is meant to stand for....

don't ge tme wrong, I have lived in this country--America--all my life... I still do not understand.

[Lilu]

I think that is a fair and valid reason random, and I can certainly respect your decision.

BB
Lilu

[Lilu]

*bump*

[Swanspirit]

respect the reason anyone would have for not saying it...... and I admire your courage in speaking out...........as well..........
If no one every spoke out against injustice..... we would be a nation of sheep .....
Love and light
Swannie

[Emerald Sky]

A short history of the Pledge:

http://www.vineyard.net/vineyard/history/pledge.htm

"In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer."

I thought prayer wasn't allowed in schools?:huh:

[Lilu]

Thanks for posting that Em.
Hmmmm, maybe I ought to write in to the radio again and tell them about the public prayer thing. hahaha

BB
Lilu

[kittiepoetrygod]

Publicly lead prayer over the intercom or forced prayers in public schools are.

[Twilight Garden]

I never liked pledging my allegiance to a flag. Do we live in such an insecure country that it has to be reminded daily that people "pledge their allegiance" to it?

[Laiste]

"One nation in Spirit"...I like that alot!!

I really feel that it should be changed...although I don't have a problem with it being said in schools...IMO it gives the children a good sense of patriotism...however I feel that we could do without the religious implications of "One God".

I choose to use "One nation under The Gods"...nobody is paying attention to what each individual is saying...so you can get away with it without any confrontation.

On a side note..."Liberty and Justice"...here is a link containing information about each states flag...I found it very interesting that the Goddesses of Liberty and Justice are on the New York State flag...http://www.50states.com/flag/nyflag.htm
I'm thinking of getting NY state flag and displaying it with my US flag!!:)

[Faery-Wings]

On a side note..."Liberty and Justice"...here is a link containing information about each states flag...I found it very interesting that the Goddesses of Liberty and Justice are on the New York State flag...http://www.50states.com/flag/nyflag.htm

How cool! It almost reminds me of a Tarot card- with the upraised sword and blindfold. Lots of good imagery.


I say the Pledge- it must be from my background as a preschool teacher for too many years. I have only a small bit of trouble with "under God" since I do believe in the Gods. I love "One nation in Spirit" too. That way everyone is included. Lately the God Bless America is getting to me, however. Doesn't Pres. Bush realize that not all Americans call their Dieties "God?"

Chris

[Angel of Bast]

Am I too late to respond to this? I always forget to check the messages here...

I live in Madison. Actually, I live just outside of Madison but work here each and every day, and have lived here off and on my whole life.

I think what the school board did was horrible! They made a decision that respected ALL religions, caught some heat for it, and backed down. How respectable is that?

Instead of teaching our kids the Pledge of Allegiance, they taught our kids to think for yourself UNLESS someone disagrees with it-then change your mind and get in line behind the rest of the sheep.

AoB

[Radocs]

When I was in High School I was rarely in homeroom or anywhere else where I would even actually hear the pledge (it was always said over the PA and everyone else was supposed to chime in). When faced with it I simply said nothing.

[clef0628]

Originally posted by chryssi1


Lately the God Bless America is getting to me, however. Doesn't Pres. Bush realize that not all Americans call their Dieties "God?"

Chris

I'm not sure is Bush does realize it or not but, I'm getting tried of it myself. That and the radio playing "God Bless America". What ever happened to "America the Beautful(sp)"? Or, other American songs.

[Avena]

Actually I slowly begin to find this whole "God bless America" phrase annoying. But not because of the word "God" but because of "America". Wouldn't "God bless the world" be much more appropriate according to the current world wide wish for "blessing", peace and freedom?

[clef0628]

Avena, you make a very good point. Maybe, just "Bless the World" would be good for right now.