Saturn Vs. Chiron

[Kadynas]

With not a lot of information out there about Chiron, I'm still finding it hard to work it into synastry... _wiz_

So when someone's Saturn is right smack dab on your Chiron, ie: the same degree in Taurus, and that Chiron is in a very tight T-Square with Mars in Leo and Juno in Aquarius, what does that mean for the connection between the two people? Is the Saturn person trying to teach the Chiron person the most exquisite form of pain imaginable or what? Because to be honest that's the way it seems... Keep in mind between these two charts there are several very good aspects in the way of trines and sextiles, as well as a Mars-Sun conjunction... Doesn't seem to help matters that the recent Lunar Eclipse activated the exact degree of that Chiron and Saturn at 04 Taurus...

[KEishin]

I would see Chiron as the collective influence of the relationship, both its faults and features. This could bring strong and sudden attraction, followed by equally sudden reversals of affection.

With the Saturn square Mars, those involved will be very unlikely to want to make any changes right now. I'd look at what houses those are in to decide where that'll take place.

Add Chiron to the party and I'd say childhood issues of abandonment and hurt (very Chironic themes) might be rearing their heads. The realtionship may suddenly become the way that they heal. One partner may become a teacher (Saturn), and the other a student. If this isn't dealt with it will begin to affect the relationship negatively (Juno). Rember that Juno in Aquarius wants freedom to be themselves, so if they aren't allowed the ability to experiment some, they may get up and leave suddenly.

Demetra George's excellent book on asteroids speaks of this some with authority:

"Stressful aspects point to potential conflicts between the assertion and co-operation urges, leading to the problem of domination / subjugation in the partnership. These individuals may express anger, aggression, or insensitivity in their relationships. In some cases, the need to prove one's masculinity through sexual performance may be present."

Helpful?

[Kadynas]

I would see Chiron as the collective influence of the relationship, both its faults and features. This could bring strong and sudden attraction, followed by equally sudden reversals of affection.
Exactly!! Only the reversals seem to be going back and forth like a volleyball match! :lol:

With the Saturn square Mars, those involved will be very unlikely to want to make any changes right now. I'd look at what houses those are in to decide where that'll take place.
Ain't that the truth! :lol: Seems like we're stuck on a little merry-go-round, repeating the same cycle over and over... Mars is in the 2nd, Chiron in the 11th and Juno in the 8th.

Add Chiron to the party and I'd say childhood issues of abandonment and hurt (very Chironic themes) might be rearing their heads.
Hmmm, I was considering this as well... much as I hate to admit it, it does bring out abandonment issues... It's like a dance of "pull-me-close, push-me-away" and the "push-me-away" part hurts like hell.

The realtionship may suddenly become the way that they heal. One partner may become a teacher (Saturn), and the other a student. If this isn't dealt with it will begin to affect the relationship negatively (Juno). Rember that Juno in Aquarius wants freedom to be themselves, so if they aren't allowed the ability to experiment some, they may get up and leave suddenly.
That's true, I do get the sense that we're a very healing influence on each other. When things are going good, I feel happier than I've ever been. When they're not, well I might as well be in Siberia! :lol: Keep in mind the T-Square is in /my/ chart too, not his... He has a Jupiter though that "completes" it in Scorpio and trines my own Jupiter in Cancer.

Demetra George's excellent book on asteroids speaks of this some with authority:

"Stressful aspects point to potential conflicts between the assertion and co-operation urges, leading to the problem of domination / subjugation in the partnership. These individuals may express anger, aggression, or insensitivity in their relationships. In some cases, the need to prove one's masculinity through sexual performance may be present."
Helpful?
That part doesn't seem to speak to me as much... maybe the insensitivity at times, but everything else doesn't really seem to fit from that paragraph.

Thanks so much for your thoughts! :D

[KEishin]

Well y'know I jokeingly call you my astro twin because our charts are so similar . . . :hehehe: so I'm a little ahead of you in seeing Chiron come on into MY relationship - about one month to be exact.

Let me explain. My current bf has been having a hard time of things lately, what with Chiron going over his AC and Saturn squaring his Pluto and trining his Merc, Uranus and MC. He's stopped moving forward in a lot of ways and is being forced to confront a new (very Chironic-type) health problem and that he's not happy with his career choices.

Along comes me, with my Chiron trine his Mars (I'm always reminding him to go to the doctor), my Mars square his Chiron and trine his Sun. I've been playing emotional nursemaid for the past month or two while these transits play out. Then my Saturn squares his Uranus, which rules his Aquarian AC . . . :fpatricks

Needless to say, Chiron and us have been having some conflicts. :abadpoker They're all for the better, as healing helps us grow, yada, yada. I've been placed in the role of helping him get his life back on track. It's not that I'm unwilling - on the contrary. But I have to hold back from the role of being "a mommy" so this doesn't turn Oedipal.

We also have that heavy healing influence on each other. I too have a Chiron, Mars, Juno T-square, but mine is 3rd, 8th, 11th . . .

May the gods have mercy on us all! (hehehe) :hugz:

EDIT: doesn't the title of this thread sound like one of those 'Celebrity Death-Match' shows?

[Fluffmeister]

Have you come across the "Magi Society"? They have a few unconventional ideas, one of which is that Chiron is *the* planet of synastry. They consider any Venus/Chiron contacts to be *the* soulmate contact.

I have a close Chiron/Venus conjunction, and I have to say the more conventional interpretation of "wounded relationships" resonates more for me.

However, they claim to have done extensive research on this:

http://www.magiastrology.com/

[Kadynas]

KEishin: Haven't even checked the transiting Chiron... the natal aspects have been bringing me enough heartache. :lol: I can definitely sympathize with you...

And yeah... :rollingla Celebrity DeathMatch! That would make a nice astro-cartoon! :lol:

Fluff: Their stuff looks complicated but I'm definitely going to check it out... I'm not entirely sure why they think Chiron is the "soulmate" planet, but it's interesting to me... Their books are almost sold out though so I guess I'll have to hunt for them. :) Chiron does seem to have a lot of connections between our charts. And who would've thunk that the Quincunx was such a "magical angle"? LOL :lol:

[Fluffmeister]

KEishin: Haven't even checked the transiting Chiron... the natal aspects have been bringing me enough heartache. :lol: I can definitely sympathize with you...

And yeah... :rollingla Celebrity DeathMatch! That would make a nice astro-cartoon! :lol:

Fluff: Their stuff looks complicated but I'm definitely going to check it out... I'm not entirely sure why they think Chiron is the "soulmate" planet, but it's interesting to me... Their books are almost sold out though so I guess I'll have to hunt for them. :) Chiron does seem to have a lot of connections between our charts. And who would've thunk that the Quincunx was such a "magical angle"? LOL :lol:
Yeah - I have to admit I'm dubious. However, they do have quite an active Yahoo group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/magi-astrotopics which is quite interesting. I "lurk" on that group, but don't post.

[Kadynas]

Oh KEishin, just noticed that transiting Chiron is opposing the natal Mars in my T-Square... so conjuncting Juno... Let the games begin! :lol:

[Digital_Chi]

Please explain the bit about the quincunx being a "magical angle"? I have been searching for info to interpret my SO's Venus in tight (< 1 degree) quincunx with my Chiron. Got so confused with the Magi material that I can't tell whether this particular interaspect is a kiss-of-death or not (as in, the Magi say its great, but don't say why, and traditional astrology on the other hand takes a more pessimistic view of the quincunx).

Any ideas on the how Venus in aspect to Chiron (quincunx specifically) would play out? What sort of energies would be exchanged and which way would they flow? In my situation, the energy I can detect is that we're both trying to heal each other of traumatic past relationships by appeciating each other (as opposed to taking each other for granted, or putting each other down).

I don't understand though how the energy goes two ways in interaspects. I would imagine that Planet A person would play the role of Planet A to Person B, and that there wouldn't be role reversal?

[Kadynas]

I'm not sure what the Magi people were talking about either... the book that goes into it is out of print and you can only get it from them I think.

Quincunxes usually require "adjustment" because the energies involved are on such different wavelengths. I think your interpretation of the Venus/Chiron aspect was right on... The very act of being in relationship brings up those adjustments you need to make or the opportunies needed for healing, either yourself or your partner.

Now as far as role reversals, Chiron is /your/ woundedness... someone hitting that may cause you some pain, intentionally or not, but by releasing it, you're better able to heal, and thus pass that healing onto others. If you were the Venus person, you'd probably feel a lot better, but would wonder why the heck your partner is so darn /sensitive/ to certain things you say or do. :lol:

[Digital_Chi]

So, in its most basic form and initially at least, Venus brings healing or wounding to Chiron through love?

[Kadynas]

Venus won't bring either of these so much as trigger them in the Chiron person. :) Just the natural mannerisms of Venus will tend to bring these things out in Chiron...