Demeter & Persephone

[Miss Goody Two Shoes]

The Greek earth goddess par excellence, who brings forth the fruits of the earth, particularly the various grains. She taught mankind the art of sowing and ploughing so they could end their nomadic existence. As such, Demeter was also the goddess of planned society. She was very popular with the rural population. As a fertility goddess she is sometimes identified with Rhea and Gaia.

Major snippage by Xentor. See the rest of the article here:
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/d/demeter.html

[maldito]

I love that myth!
Also, I pray to Persephone in times.:heartthro

[Nantonos]

Can you explain what you mean by "systematized theology"?

[Khuinaset]

This is a little off topic, but I thought I could ask here rather than create a new thread - is Hecate another name for Persephone? :eyebrow: We were reading Antigone in class the other day, and at the part where it mentions Hecate and Pluto, the footnotes said that Hecate was another name for Persephone and Pluto is another name for Hades. That immediately struck me as *so* wrong(just goes to show how worthless most of our textbooks are :p ) but Greek mythology isn't my strong point, hence the asking.

[mucgwyrt]

Can you explain what you mean by "systematized theology"?
I think she was just quoting a different website...
xx

[Élistariel]

This is a little off topic, but I thought I could ask here rather than create a new thread - is Hecate another name for Persephone? :eyebrow: We were reading Antigone in class the other day, and at the part where it mentions Hecate and Pluto, the footnotes said that Hecate was another name for Persephone and Pluto is another name for Hades. That immediately struck me as *so* wrong(just goes to show how worthless most of our textbooks are :p ) but Greek mythology isn't my strong point, hence the asking.


Hecate isn't Peresphone. Greek mythology isn't my strong point, but I do know that much.
I always thought it was:
Demeter - Ceres
Persephone - Proserpine (I always despised that name)

I thought Hecate was another underworld diety entirely. :confused:

[Khuinaset]

Hecate isn't Peresphone. Greek mythology isn't my strong point, but I do know that much.
I always thought it was:
Demeter - Ceres
Persephone - Proserpine (I always despised that name)

I thought Hecate was another underworld diety entirely. :confused:

Yeah, I didn't mean the Roman counterpart...I just looked at it and blinked and thought "what the heck?!". I guess my textbook was just very off then :lol:

[raven grimassi]

is Hecate another name for Persephone? :eyebrow: We were reading Antigone in class the other day, and at the part where it mentions Hecate and Pluto, the footnotes said that Hecate was another name for Persephone and Pluto is another name for Hades. That immediately struck me as *so* wrong(just goes to show how worthless most of our textbooks are :p ) but Greek mythology isn't my strong point, hence the asking.

In the Greek myth, Hecate is mentioned as aiding the return of Persephone from the Underworld. Here it appears that the myth is making a distinction. Hecate first appears in an earlier writing known as the Theogony (by Hesiod) which shows her lineage (and one that is different from Persephone's).

Among the Romans, the goddess Proserpina reflects a Persephone-like nature, although she is very much a Chthonic deity who shares a great deal in common with Hecate. However, they are still two different deities.

Best regards - Raven

[Miss Goody Two Shoes]

When Hades took Persephone.
Demeter searched for her everywhere and could not find her.

Hecate is the one who finally helped Demeter to find Persephone.

I am very close with Demeter & Persephone, it's not by choice, it's just the way things go for me. I too have a daughter, who was stolen from me, and she lives in the underworld, and i only get to see her sometimes.

[Hellenic_Witch]

When Hades took Persephone.
Demeter searched for her everywhere and could not find her.

Hecate is the one who finally helped Demeter to find Persephone.

I am very close with Demeter & Persephone, it's not by choice, it's just the way things go for me. I too have a daughter, who was stolen from me, and she lives in the underworld, and i only get to see her sometimes.
Miss Goody Two Shoes,
If you're interested, here are some previous discussions regarding Persephone, Demeter, and Hekate.
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=68729
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=32428
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=37342
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=57007
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=61478
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=71802

[Miss Goody Two Shoes]

thank you.
of course i'm interested, lol, that is what i'm doing here.
i don't talk about stuff that isn't interesting to me.
by worshipping demeter & persephone i'm compelled to read any bit of information i can find on them, and, there's nothing else i'd rather talk about.
:hailmol:

[Nantonos]

i don't talk about stuff that isn't interesting to me.
by worshipping demeter & persephone i'm compelled to read any bit of information i can find on them, and, there's nothing else i'd rather talk about.
:hailmol:

Perhaps then you could post something in your own words, rather than copying the words of others. Talking about them would be an improvement.

[Hellenic_Witch]

Perhaps then you could post something in your own words, rather than copying the words of others. Talking about them would be an improvement.
__________________

I agree. If she had started this thread with her own thoughts and experiences with Demeter and Persephone, the result would have been much different.

[Miss Goody Two Shoes]

I am very close with Demeter & Persephone, it's not by choice, it's just the way things go for me. I too have a daughter, who was stolen from me, and she lives in the underworld, and i only get to see her sometimes.

what i'm about to say needs a firmer foundation to support it's beauty.

i'll try again someplace.

let me try to use some of my own words for you regarding Hecate.
in another thread from 2004 someone was talking about her association with magic.
i am close with Hecate too, being so involved with Demeter & Persephone.

i didn't post in the thread from 2004 because i worried that would offend someone. do i dredge up old threads or start new ones?

also, my relationship with Hecate is so intimate, i have a million tales to tell about her, but it's not going to be anything you find in any books.

and, if what you say is true, you want to hear my own words, then ok let's try that.

Hecate's magic is bound to what I call "the fountain of youth"
Her magic is her power to change-her-shape, meaning, she has the power to alter ones perception to make herself beautiful and youthful, and her control over people is much like the way you can control things in a dream.
She is seen as sort of wicked or bad sometimes because of her magic, but she is also very good, because she aided Demeter in her search.

have you ever heard any stories associating Hecate to the fountain of youth?

[Bix]

I've honestly never heard of Hecate associated with the fountain of youth. I know she did assume various forms such as dogs, but never thought about her assuming the forms of younger people. That's interesting.

[Miss Goody Two Shoes]

that's why i mention it.
it's in my own words.
i lived with hecate.
i can tell the story of living with her if you want.

in mythology she isn't associated with the fountain of youth.
but shapeshifting is one of her things and she has a way of looking beautiful around men if she wants them to see her that way.
in the same way your daughter may remind you of your mother.

[Bix]

I don't have a daughter, hehe. How'd you associate Hecate with the fountain of youth?

[Miss Goody Two Shoes]

she mixes potions for magic.
in doing that she is drawing from a fountain.
the fountain is mortality.
she is immortal, and like an old crone, but as she mixes her potions she is drawing from the mortal fountain which can make her youthful in appearance to those mortals who surround her.
only a few people who have direct contact with her will see her as beautiful sometimes.

[Hellenic_Witch]

Hecate's magic is bound to what I call "the fountain of youth"

I don't see Hekate's "magic" as being bound by or to anything. (I put the word Magic in quotations because in my personal experience with Hekate, magic is too mundane a word. Power and wisdom would be accurate words to use.

And following Hekate surpasses magic, it goes much deeper than that.

[Aidron]

Outside of the myths depicting Hekate as having a significant hand in Persephone's return, some later ones also denote Hermes, but also Herakles in some very few cases. I, however would be more inclined to believe Hekate and/or Hermes had a hand in such, given their links to the underworld.

As for Persephone, she has been liked to Flora in some respects from the roman pantheon, but I prefer to steer clear of such associations out of a matter of respect and preference.

Hekate is an... unusual goddess. Quite possibly one of the most enigmatic divine beings. As such I prefer to keep my own personal opinions of her to myself as the passion of her followers can run very high and with so much drivel written about her in neo-paganism books that have almost nothing to do with Hellenismos outside of listing the deities as tools to call upon she can prove very difficult to discuss without years of research.

[Hellenic_Witch]

Originally posted by Miss Goody Two Shoes:
also, my relationship with Hecate is so intimate, i have a million tales to tell about her, but it's not going to be anything you find in any books.
This is true of most of Hekate's followers. You are not alone in that!

she mixes potions for magic.
in doing that she is drawing from a fountain.

I have never seen any references to Hekate mixing potions before. In my experience with her, she has no need for potions or mixing. She is quite powerful on her own.

To be honest, I don't like the image you create when you speak of her mixing potions. . . it makes her sound like the cliche and stereotypical image of a storybook witch, not the Deity that she is.

[Miss Goody Two Shoes]

first you say you want personal experience
now you say you don't

what exactly do you want?

[Hellenic_Witch]

first you say you want personal experience
now you say you don't

what exactly do you want?
When did anyone say that they didn't want a personal experience?!

It's only fair that if you share a personal experience, that people can comment on it. Right?

Or do think that we can only comment if we agree with you?

[Miss Goody Two Shoes]

i thought respect meant if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

saying that mixing potions is story book, and not of the deity, only shows a person who understands neither.

it sounds like what you're saying is if my story doesn't fit into your shape then it's cliche or sterotypical.
but in fact, what you are doing is what is stereotypical and hipocritical.

thank god i didn't tell my intimate stories with demeter, what a bloodbath you would've had with that.

this is bullshit

[Hellenic_Witch]

i thought respect meant if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

saying that mixing potions is story book, and not of the deity, only shows a person who understands neither.

it sounds like what you're saying is if my story doesn't fit into your shape then it's cliche or sterotypical.
but in fact, what you are doing is what is stereotypical and hipocritical.

thank god i didn't tell my intimate stories with demeter, what a bloodbath you would've had with that.

this is bullshit
That's not what I meant at all and I'm sorry that you took it that way. I did not say that mixing potions is storybook, I said that I had never seen any references to Hekate mixing potions and it creates a different image of her.

Yes, I said that that doesn't fit in with my image of Hekate, but what's wrong with me saying that? I expressed my opinion respectfully and honestly.

You seem to get angry very quickly if it seems someone doesn't agree with you.

All I meant was that I have my own deeply personal experiences with Hekate that are quite different from what you describe. That doesn't mean that one experience is right and one is wrong, they are just different.

[Aidron]

i thought respect meant if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

saying that mixing potions is story book, and not of the deity, only shows a person who understands neither.

it sounds like what you're saying is if my story doesn't fit into your shape then it's cliche or sterotypical.
but in fact, what you are doing is what is stereotypical and hipocritical.

thank god i didn't tell my intimate stories with demeter, what a bloodbath you would've had with that.

this is bullshit


How common. When presented with a point of view that is seemingly more logical, you become defensive.

However, I think you must realize that such an image of Hekate is stereotypical and cliche. Thus, why be angered over it? Is it because such things are often viewed negatively? Perhaps, I certainly view them as such in almost all cases. Yet, why adhere to such a view point of the stereotypical and the cliche being negative? If it is, it is, but why not allow yourself to feel that such is not truly negative, but rather merely how things are from your point of view regarding Hekate.

And for the record, the tone of your post compels me to state this: Your manner in this matter is bullshit. To react so harshly to such a factual point of view regarding Hekate (and it is stereotypical to view witches and those associated with them as working with potion, concoctions and so forth) and your own perspective of her, that tells me you are not fully behind your own stance or do not have the inner strength to back it up. Regardless of that as I may be entirely wrong (which is irrelevant in the grand schemes of this scenario), the point is there's no need for such a display or reaction. Try being more calm, mature and receptive to the ideas and view points of others when you post in a public forum.

[Theres]

in mythology she isn't associated with the fountain of youth.
but shapeshifting is one of her things and she has a way of looking beautiful around men if she wants them to see her that way.

i'm curious as to where you found this, as i've never seen any competent reference to this ability.

I have never seen any references to Hekate mixing potions before. In my experience with her, she has no need for potions or mixing. She is quite powerful on her own.
agreed.
this sounds more like Medea-pollution to me, and probably fell to Hekate only by association over time.

[Theres]

In the Greek myth, Hecate is mentioned as aiding the return of Persephone from the Underworld. Here it appears that the myth is making a distinction. Hecate first appears in an earlier writing known as the Theogony (by Hesiod) which shows her lineage (and one that is different from Persephone's).
and the evidence from ancient Greek pottery supports this distinction as well.

it should also be mentioned that Hekate's role in the Persephone myth is relatively minor, and in some versions She is even replaced by Hermes (the other psychopomp).

[Theres]

Hekate is an... unusual goddess. Quite possibly one of the most enigmatic divine beings.
now THERE'S the understatement of the thread! ;)

As such I prefer to keep my own personal opinions of her to myself as the passion of her followers can run very high...
very true, which is why i'm trying to stay out of these things as well. i guess i need to work a little harder, huh? (lol)

... and with so much drivel written about her in neo-paganism books that have almost nothing to do with Hellenismos outside of listing the deities as tools to call upon she can prove very difficult to discuss without years of research.
and that's why i'm quickly reaching the point where i won't take anything written about Her after Alexander III as definitive.

always go to the source.

[Miss Goody Two Shoes]

i'm curious as to where you found this, as i've never seen any competent reference to this ability.


i found it thru personal experience.
when you study a myth, what is the reason?
the reason is because the godform is an archetype of meaning that still lives and breathes in those who form associations with divinity.
and for those who do, of course, "new myths" arise thru prophets or poets.

earlier i said i would post the source of the info-
since you asked, here it is.
I wrote this in 1999.
I will comment later if you have questions.
--------------------------------------------
I met her in a coffee shop, she was extraordinarily beautiful to me, I could not resist her charming regard for my glances.
She appeared as a bright foreign maiden of 18-19 years old, her face was vaguely french or russian. She spoke with an accent, a voice so hypnotic and seductive, I could consider nothing else. I knew there was nothing at all innocent about her words, but in them was such purity and virtue that I could only bend unto them.
She told me her name was Mystic. I was much obliged to be led back to her home.
She opened The Door, and welcomed me into her house. It was extremely messy, lots of boxes everywhere, broken furnature in heaps, strange things in strange places. The place wasnt filthy dirty, or stinky, it actually smelled very nice, it was just messy. But even more strangely, the house was like an amusement park funhouse. Things would move around on their own sometimes, and things would pop up at you suddenly.
As soon as I entered that place, and she closed the door, she totally controlled my mind. At times I would try to go for the door and leave, but as I said, the room itself was alive and it prevented me despite my weak futile attempts to retain some kind of sanity, at times it was hell.
She could control every thought and action of mine, and all the while I knew that she was doing this, but it was alright, it was Ok, because it was remarkably powerful and beautiful as well, it was intellectually astounding and deeply magical, and something special to be apart of. Although I was similar to her puppet, she was having me do things that I rejoiced in, and taking passion in the performance also, because these were acts of true Love between Us.
Sometimes I remember noticing that there were two other males living in the house, but she had such control over Us that she could make us percieve what ever she wanted.
(She could even control whether or not we knew we were aware of being controlled.)

She liked to play this little hide and seek game with me, I didnt enjoy the game, but she made me endure it several times. There was a staircase leading up to her bedroom, and she would make me walk up it looking for her, but before I get to the landing at the top of the staircase, a supernatural funhouse type secret door opens and it sucks me into the wall like a vacuum, and therein she is hiding, only she isnt her usual beautiful self but instead a hideous old monster with cold wet peeling grey skin, and she hugs me orgasmically in laughter at my fright, with her green serpent grin and brown tongue. Despite her mind control I never thought that joke was funny.

After a few days(I dont know how long I was gone) she said she wanted to go visit my mother. I couldnt disagree even if I wanted to, so we got in the car and she drove.
Along the way I noticed my skin was peeling all over, upon further inspection it seemed blood had oozed from my pours and turned into scabs all over my body, but I was not in any pain, and Mystic was controlling my mind anyway, I knew for a fact in my heart that if I could just take a shower, that the old skin and scabs would just wash off and I would be fine.

I was thinking I just needed to shed my skin and then I would be reborn, then suddenly she turned toward the Airport saying she was breaking up with me, and she dropped me off there. As soon as I entered the airport I felt very ill and I knew that I needed a Hospital. I was very weak, and hot with fever, and although I felt completely delirious no one paid any attention of me, almost as if I were a ghost, I told them I needed help but they didnt see anything wrong with me.
Finally, after a 5 hour flight, I crawled off of the plane toward a Hospital emergency room in the town of my birth, and when I first arrived none of the doctors could see anything wrong with me and it was making me very angry because I was so sore weary I couldnt even move, I could barely speak, I was burning up, and they didnt think a shower was a good idea, instead they were taking my pulse and checking my fingernails.

Finally I saw a shower stall, and as I moved toward it, the doctors tried to block me and hold me back, but in the end I made it, like winning some kind of marathon. And in my victory I remembered Mystic, and I missed her.

As soon as I close my eyes and run the cool water over my head, I am healed, and the plague skin rolls off of me, and opening my eyes I am returned to a babe sitting in a tub as my Mother pours water upon my brow and I splash and giggle in a moment of outrageous glee.

Somehow we healed each other.