Paganism as correllated to Christianity

[Briana]

G'Day! I have an odd question. I have been doing some research but have basically come up with blanks. My mum is Christian and she just finished reading a book about a Pagan woman in her book club. She wants me to bring her down an easy to read book that shows the correllations between Paganism and Christianity...okay...told you is was an old one! I can come up with a lot of info on Pagan rites, etc that were 'made' Christian but... One of her questions was

"I go to Jesus to speak to God because Jesus lived on earth and understands and can explain it. Do you have someone to go to to bring it to the God/Goddess?"

Of course, one of the big problems is Paganism has so many Trads that it really depends. Its very kool that my mom is interested in my 'spirituality' but how to put it across (without totally offending her...ie, well Christianity took most of our holidays and made them theirs...tee heee).

Anyhow, if any one has any suggestions for books/websites that might include something like that...I'm a wee bit stumped at the moment!!!

Blessings,
Briana

[CosmicWhispers]

Hi Briana,
I'm not sure you can answer her questions without offending her a little. Depends on
how open she is to hearing your views. When you say she goes to Jesus to speak to
God, I take that to mean she prays to Jesus who speaks to God on her behalf. Which
is fine, but not even all Christians pray to Jesus. When I was Christian, that wasn't my
mode. In her question, she is assuming the need for a middle man between us
and God. The question is, do you believe, in your spirituality, that you need a
mediator to take it to the God/Goddess? I personally do not believe one is necessary
and can go directly to my God with whatever is needed.
As far as websites or books; I can't think of any particular website at this moment.
Sounds like you already discussed the similarities between old pagan rituals and rites
that are also used in christianity. Maybe you can do a websearch on ancient pagan
saviour gods. Compare Jesus to those gods.
Good luck to you, you may indeed be hard pressed to not offend her some.

[Briana]

Thanks CosmicWhispers. Yes, actually now that you mention it, when I was Christian, I prayed to God. This was the first I've heard of an intermdiary. And no, I don't think I need to go through an intermdiary to speak with the God/Goddess. And I also speak with my guides and the guardians.

Searching for anicent pagan saviour gods is a great idea! She's a fairly liberal Christian: she doesn't believe in hell or satan; she doesn't follow a specific denomination, if she likes a church, she goes to it, if not she doesn't go to church. And she actually handled the discussion I had with her very well...I just tread softly ;-) ...I think I'm still in shock that I actually had the discussion with her...being the black sheep I've found it easier to distance myself unlike my younger siblings who visit home much more often.

Thanks again!
Briana

[desolationangel]

I don't know if this is helpful but I follow a Kemetic (Egyptian) path and most of us feel that there is one big "god" idea called Netjer, but it is too complicated for us to understand. Therefore, the other gods, or "Names" of Netjer relate to us. They are like facets of Netjer. For instance, Aset (Isis), Djehuty (Thoth) and Yinepu (Anubis) all have very different "personalities" and some people relate better to one than to the other, so the connect with and worship that Name. But at the end of the day, they're all part of the same big whole.

This is similar to the Hindu view, I am told.

You may also like to look into Voudun. The Lwa (Loa) are very powerful, almost-god ancestral spirits that are prayed to in order to reach the incomprehensible deity. Also similar are the Orisha of Santeria. Catholics pray to saints for intercession; this is why the Lwa and Orisha are often syncretized with saints to avoid persecution.

[CosmicWhispers]

Thanks CosmicWhispers. Yes, actually now that you mention it, when I was Christian, I prayed to God. This was the first I've heard of an intermdiary. And no, I don't think I need to go through an intermdiary to speak with the God/Goddess. And I also speak with my guides and the guardians.

Searching for anicent pagan saviour gods is a great idea! She's a fairly liberal Christian: she doesn't believe in hell or satan; she doesn't follow a specific denomination, if she likes a church, she goes to it, if not she doesn't go to church. And she actually handled the discussion I had with her very well...I just tread softly ;-) ...I think I'm still in shock that I actually had the discussion with her...being the black sheep I've found it easier to distance myself unlike my younger siblings who visit home much more often.

Thanks again!
Briana



Hey :wave: ,
Haven't been any post here in a while. When you get a chance I'd like to know
how things turned out for you. I hope it went well. If you don't want to post you
can PM me. Thanks!

[AlAskendir]

G'Day! I have an odd question. I have been doing some research but have basically come up with blanks. My mum is Christian and she just finished reading a book about a Pagan woman in her book club. She wants me to bring her down an easy to read book that shows the correllations between Paganism and Christianity...okay...told you is was an old one! I can come up with a lot of info on Pagan rites, etc that were 'made' Christian but... One of her questions was

"I go to Jesus to speak to God because Jesus lived on earth and understands and can explain it. Do you have someone to go to to bring it to the God/Goddess?"

Of course, one of the big problems is Paganism has so many Trads that it really depends. Its very kool that my mom is interested in my 'spirituality' but how to put it across (without totally offending her...ie, well Christianity took most of our holidays and made them theirs...tee heee).

Anyhow, if any one has any suggestions for books/websites that might include something like that...I'm a wee bit stumped at the moment!!!

Blessings,
Briana


A quick internet search based on the phrase : " correllations between Paganism and Christianity " results in:

http://www.celticcallings.com/resources/celtic_traditions/celtic_pagan_faq.htm

http://jford.kence.org/religion/reviews/AoRaM-summary.php

Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God? ( a book )

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_article.html?a=usmd&id=3138

http://victorian.fortunecity.com/palette/187/session9.html

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfford/readin~1.htm

http://www.mind-field.com/mind.txt
"
which should be enough for a good start.

[cheddarsox]

honestly, I would suggest that you request that she look at your faith without trying to correlate it to Christianity. To just look at it for what it is, its own tradition with its own richness.

I don't see any actual benefits from trying to find (often artificial) connections, rather, if you share knowledge, and parallels do arise, she can identify them herself. I think it does a diservice to traditions to always be comparing them to something else, rather than investigating them for what they are.

Sometimes I cook vegetarian. One of my son's will complain about tofu being not as good as hamburger or whatever. So I told him...it's not hamburger, it is not trying to be hamburger, quit thinking about it as fake hamburger and start looking at it as what it is, something different, tofu.

Often people get stuck in only being able to look at the things in reference to what they know, and then judging everything as better or worse than what they know. Sometimes we need to make an entirely new compartment in our brains for something new.

My son loves pizza, but even he admits he doesn't want it everyday. He doesn't judge every food as being better or worse than pizza, there are different compartments in his brain, different catagories of foods. Sometimes he thinks about pizza, sometimes he wants chicken, another time he wants peanutbutter. Most of us see the ridiculousness of comparing peanut butter or lemonade to chicken, but we still try to compare chrisianity to paganism when there is no more resemblance (in many cases) than there is between peanut butter and lemonade.

Just my opinion, of course.

cheddar

[IvyWitch]

I have to say I agree with cheddarsox.

Personally if she is looking for information on Paganism, I think it might be a little insulting to her if you present nothing but information like "Before Christianity we did this, and then Christians took it from us". Yes, it is possible this happened with some things, but in order to understand Paganism, why does one have to try to invalidate Christianity?

If she wants to learn about Paganism, why does it need to be in contrast with Christianity?

[AmbivalentMirage]

I have to say I agree with cheddarsox.

Personally if she is looking for information on Peopleism, I think it might be a little insulting to her if you present nothing but information like "Before Christianity we did this, and then Christians took it from us". Yes, it is possible this happened with some things, but in order to understand Peopleism, why does one have to try to invalidate Christianity?

If she wants to learn about Peopleism, why does it need to be in contrast with Christianity?

When learning about something new, it is always nice to have something to compare it to, something familiar. That's why, when we were children, our parents would say, when introducing us to something new, "This is just like..." I know that, personally, I learned about Paganism in contrast to the more orthodox kabalah. I think that if you introduce the material diplomatically, it is not at all offensive or troublesome. Instead of "Before Christianity, we had Yule, and now we have Christmas." You can take a more "broad-minded" approach, saying something like "Just like Christians have Christmas, we too have a winter holiday called 'Yule' that celebrates the birth of the god." This helps your mother to see the similarities that Paganism shares with Christianity - and there are many since they've fed off of each other since the birth of Christianity. That way you are making Paganism accessable for her to learn about, but not offensive and contradictory to her own faith. Although, from how you've described your mother, I think she's a very understanding and accepting woman. :) I'm not too worried. hehe

Just a quite note about praying to Jesus, though... The Bible states that Jesus is constantly at the right hand of the Father, making intercession for the saints. It also states that no one may come to the Father but by Jesus. In most Christian traditions it is an accepted belief that one must pray to Jesus, or at least in his name, for the prayer to be heard. Obviously, there would be exceptions... I'm just speaking of general daily prayer. Everyone has their own method of prayer, though. My mother prays to each member of the Trinity separately. Whatever floats her boat. ;)

Best of luck to you! If you need any help, just let me know.

P.S. It's hard to find books to share with Christian family members because so many Pagan books spent chapters on Christian-bashing - restating over and over again how Christians stole things from us and destroyed our religions. Whatever. I think we've done enough damage to ourselves and we need to stop our crying and blaming. ...but I digress. :lol:

[Darakash]

One book that comes to mind and treats Christianity with respect and is specifically written for Christians with Pagan family/loved ones is "When Someone You Love is Wiccan--A Guide to Witchcraft and Paganism for Concerned Friends, Nervous Parents and Curious Coworkers" By Carl McColman...now I know you didn't specifically say "Wiccan" and this book does use that term, but it is more geared toward witches in general, and has about 18 pages on comparison/contrast with other religions, such as Christianity.

[Ben Gruagach]

You might find James Clement Taylor's article "A Christian Speaks of Wicca and Witchcraft" to be helpful. It's on the web in a number of places, including here (http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/christian.htm).

Tom Harpur's recent book "The Pagan Christ" might also be of help. Tom Harpur is a respected Canadian author and journalist who frequently writes for major Canadian newspapers on religious topics.

[cheddarsox]

Mirage,

I do see your point, it is a kind and gentle way. But the reality is that my tradition does not correspond to christianity, it really doesn't. I can't do any creative backbends that will make it so, and I don't see a good reason to try. Most people are smart enough that if they are genuinely interested they can grasp what I am talking about without my having to couch it in terms of their own faith.

I have had many Xians explain their faith to me, and not a single one EVER tried to describe Xianity in "pagan" terms. They just said what they believed, and I respect them for that. I also respect my own tradition enough to simply state what it is, just as it is. Every time we roll over and reference ourselves in respect to someone elses beliefs, I feel we are making a statement that theirs are the standard against which all else is judged, and frankly, I refuse to do that.

I realize this is my own personal hot button, and that you folks are doing a good and useful thing by reaching out to family members, but I did want to further explain my point.

There really is no way for me to parallel my faith, which has no deity, no dualism, no afterlife, and no savior to theirs. My holidays have no connection to theirs. We celebrate and honor different things. Just as I can no longer squeeze my size 18 body into my size 10 wedding gown, I cannot squeeze my faith into a mind that can't open up enough to accept it on its own merits.

thanks for listening,

cheddar

[AmbivalentMirage]

Mirage,

I do see your point, it is a kind and gentle way. But the reality is that my tradition does not correspond to christianity, it really doesn't. I can't do any creative backbends that will make it so, and I don't see a good reason to try. Most people are smart enough that if they are genuinely interested they can grasp what I am talking about without my having to couch it in terms of their own faith.

I have had many Xians explain their faith to me, and not a single one EVER tried to describe Xianity in "People" terms. They just said what they believed, and I respect them for that. I also respect my own tradition enough to simply state what it is, just as it is. Every time we roll over and reference ourselves in respect to someone elses beliefs, I feel we are making a statement that theirs are the standard against which all else is judged, and frankly, I refuse to do that.

I realize this is my own personal hot button, and that you folks are doing a good and useful thing by reaching out to family members, but I did want to further explain my point.

There really is no way for me to parallel my faith, which has no deity, no dualism, no afterlife, and no savior to theirs. My holidays have no connection to theirs. We celebrate and honor different things. Just as I can no longer squeeze my size 18 body into my size 10 wedding gown, I cannot squeeze my faith into a mind that can't open up enough to accept it on its own merits.

thanks for listening,

cheddar

Good points! It's true - not all paths are easy to compare to other faiths. :) Hopefully this is one of those "easier" situations, though. :lol:

[MerryBe]

G'Day! I have an odd question. I have been doing some research but have basically come up with blanks. My mum is Christian and she just finished reading a book about a Pagan woman in her book club. She wants me to bring her down an easy to read book that shows the correllations between Paganism and Christianity...okay...told you is was an old one! I can come up with a lot of info on Pagan rites, etc that were 'made' Christian but... One of her questions was

"I go to Jesus to speak to God because Jesus lived on earth and understands and can explain it. Do you have someone to go to to bring it to the God/Goddess?"

Of course, one of the big problems is Paganism has so many Trads that it really depends. Its very kool that my mom is interested in my 'spirituality' but how to put it across (without totally offending her...ie, well Christianity took most of our holidays and made them theirs...tee heee).

Anyhow, if any one has any suggestions for books/websites that might include something like that...I'm a wee bit stumped at the moment!!!

Blessings,
Briana

MM Briana,

While I agree with most of the others out here that it is very hard not to insult your Mother's choice of religion by comparing Christianity to Paganism, However, one aspect did come across my mind when you needed someone who walked the "earth".

As a suggestion, you can find a book on Stregheria, or Strega (Stregha), and you will find Aradia, a woman who did in fact walk the earth that many Strega's do follow in her path.

For what it's worth, in my mind there are some similarities.


BB,
Merry