A poem to make you think

[EasternPriest]

about your faith and how you may see others:

http://www.islandnet.com/~luree/poem.html

[Xander67]

did you READ that poem,,

can you please tell me in what ways does that poem NOT violate rule number one, "respecting other paths" I am SORRY... I read that poem and I have to say, it reaks of "my way or burn in Hell" it freaked me out man.... and I am ...I'm sorry.....it just freaked me out man I must object here, this is not respecting other paths!

[Myst]

Wow talk about misunderstanding the poem guys.

Read the last part again

"And will god sadly shake his head
and marvel at their blunder
or will he simply turn away
and laugh in booming thunder?"

Meaning, in the end, even if people have followed the "wrong path", that will God punish them in the end, or will he laugh? Meaning, self righteous people who are certain that those of others faiths are going to Hell could be getting a big surprise. Note this part

"Like puppets on the magic string
beyond the grasp of reason,
logic, fact, and common sense,
are heresy and treason."

Who are the puppets on the string? Could the puppets be the same people mentioned in the last part who will be surprised to find God laughing instead of sad or angry?

I suggest you guys reread it and mull over it for awhile.

[loopy]

hear hear Myst! That's what I got out of the poem as well.

[Danustouch]

Agreed Myst. It is kind of a poetic version of MANY of the events in Jesus' life, where he told the Pharisees of the day, that just by being so "pious" and "religious"..they would not obtain Heaven. Reminds me of the story of the sheep and the goats. Forgive me if I forget allll of the verse here..but I'm going to try to paraphrase what I can remember...

"And on that day many nations will gather, and he will separate them from one another, as sheep from goats. And he will place the sheep at his right hand, and the goats at the left. To the Sheep, he will say..Come ye who are blessed of the father..inherit the kingdom God has prepared for you. For I was hungry, and you gave me food. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me. I was in prison, and ou came to me. And the righteous will answer..'but Lord, when did we see the hungry and thirsty, and when did we see thee a stranger and welcome the, or naked, and clothe thee. When did we see the sick, and imprisoned and visit thee' and the King will answer them saying. 'Truly I say to you. As you have done this unto the least of my brethren..you have done it unto me.'. Then he will say to those goats at his left hand...'Depart from me you cursed into the eternal fires.For when i was hungry, you gave me no food, When I was thirsty, you gave me no drink, I was a stranger, and you did not welcome me, naked, and you did not clothe me. I was sick, and in prison, and you did not visit me.'. Then the wicked shall say...'Lord, Lord when did we see the hungry and not feed the, thirsty, and not give thee drink, naked, and clothe the, a stranger, and welcome thee...when did we see you sick, and in prison, and not visit thee?' and the King of Kings shall say...'Truly, I say to thee, what you have NOT done, to the very least of my brethren, you have NOT done to me".

This verse has been used over and over, in the Christian religion, to point to the fact that a person cannot just "Call themselves" a Christian. They must LIVE Jesus' teachings. Words must follow with action. So in other words, it is not good enough, for people who have lived "pious" and "sanctimonious" lives, to enter Heaven. Being Pious and Sanctimonious, and calling yourself one of his followers, will not buy you eternal life. The only thing that will buy you eternal life, is a pure, loving heart. Giving of yourself, to others. These qualities, of giving, and loving, generosity, compassion, are NOT limited to Christians...we as Pagans have them as well. So...I believe the message of the Poem that EP printed, is that we too, have equal chance at eternal life, if we show the qualities of love and compassion. That the people who condemn us for choosing another name for God, are being exceedingly ignorant and myopic. They will be judged, by their actions. Not by the label they choose for themselves.

Whew..ok..that was long winded.

[Swanspirit]

is about "god" thunderously laughing at people........
who think they can judge others.....

Still the poem was offensively done........,
that god would have to laugh at anyone.....
demonstrates quite clearly to me
the writer is still suffering from some kind of dichotomy.....
and although has employed his brain is "thinking"
is still what some refer to as thinkin .... Stinkin


whew that veil is thinning.....
Love and Light
Swannie

[Danustouch]

Well...maybe offensively to you. But it is the Christian belief in a dichotomy...Evil vs. Good. So...it is that "Belief" that is offensive to you. Not the poem itsself. And although a particular..."Belief" might be offensive to you, Christians have a right to talk about their beliefs, and to post them here, as long as they do not directly or indirectly bash YOUR beliefs. Which this post has not done :)

[Swanspirit]

it IS the poem I find offensive not the post.....and of course the discussion of dichotomous beleifs is allowed .....I would not like that poem no matter where I saw it....... I have seen other christian poetry that reflect the same sentiment and ideas without suggesting the god is thundrously laughing at anyone.........
Love and light
Swannie

[mol]

Hmm, well...this thread is for the discussion of what that poem makes you feel. So go at it people. Keep it civil.

Thanks.

[Swanspirit]

suggests that wars are started because of others peoples faiths and beleif systems...... and I think....... that if anything this horrible war has proved that war is not BASED on those belief systems BUT PERVERSIONS of those belief systems .........and if that is brought to the general consciousness..... then that is a benefit.............but this poem doesnt help that ...... it continues the erroneous beliefs.........
Love and light
Swannie

[Twilight]

the poem relaly strikes home. it doesn't violate rule 1, because it's not bashing a specific path... it's bashing arrogance, and pride, and hatred, and all the other lures that lure people to do bad bad things in their god's name.

[mol]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
suggests that wars are started because of others peoples faiths and beleif systems...... and I think....... that if anything this horrible war has proved that war is not BASED on those belief systems BUT PERVERSIONS of those belief systems .........and if that is brought to the general consciousness..... then that is a benefit.............but this poem doesnt help that ...... it continues the erroneous beliefs.........
Love and light
Swannie

Your opinion is noted.

[Danustouch]

I guess it's a matter of perspective then...because I felt that the poem was pointing out that fact that people do pervert beliefs and that that causes mayhem.

I don't know...I just feel that the poem was directed at those who DO pervert religious teachings, in order to condemn others. Saying, in effect, that those who do so, will find themselves quite surprised on the other side, when they find out that "God" or "The Creator" is far more understanding, and open minded, then they had thought. They might even find themselves the subject of judgement...because of their intolerant attitudes toward others.

The verse..."judge not lest thee be judged" seems to be what this poem is about...at least to me. And that doesn't seem like a bad or offensive ideal, to me.

It just seemed to be saying that people should be less intolerant..less judgemental, about belief systems that are not their own.

Swan..I don't understand what specifically offends you. Is it merely the whole phrase about God Laughing Thunderously??? I've often imagined how the Gods must chuckle at mankind and our misunderstandings.

[Swanspirit]

What does that mean exactly ??
"Your opinion is noted."
I know this medium can be conducive to misunderstandings .. .....and I am attempting to
reduce the occurrance of said misunderstandings

:ack:
Love and Light of understanding......
Swannie

[Xander67]

well I dunno, it just creeped me out, It was like 2am when I read it i guess I will re read it again with an open mind...

Im sorry for lashing out at Priest...

[Swanspirit]

What A Friend We Have...

Why should it matter what you thinkfirst of all it does matter to me what I think
or what you hold as real, it is written in the third person POINTING At the reader
eternal fires or black vampires
or prayers before a meal.

Best be happy and feel safe
enjoy the summer breeze.
God's the force that makes things go, Assuming I beleive in a GOD
from bugs to rocks to seas.

Like puppets on the magic string Better be Like a puppet
beyond the grasp of reason,
logic, fact, and common sense,
are heresy and treason.

The wars, the hate and misery
you shake your heads and sigh,
and blame it on those other faiths, I DONT BLAME other faiths that is an erroneous assumption
those ones based on a lie. I dont beleive other faiths are based in lies

Those false religions of the world,
with their misguided flocks,
and silly childish rituals some of my rituals could be seen as childish
and multi-colored frocks.

How can they be so darned naive
to pass on heaven's deal.
The one your parents taught to you I no longer practice what was passed on to me
must certainly be real.

Forget that they have certainty,
and that they smirk at you.
As confident that their beliefs
are righteous through and through.

Pity all those other flocks,
believing all is well.
And then to learn the truth in death
and meet the fires of hell.

And will god sadly shake his head
and marvel at their blunder
or will he simply turn away
and laugh in booming thunder? Still in the masculine gender laughing at peoples mistakes......
I just dont relale and the parts that make assumptions are rather offensive.......

Russel E. Barefoot
I think you and I may possibly be saying the same thing in different ways .. Danus.....
Love and light
Swannie

[loopy]

Hmm... I got impression that the poem was aimed towards a Christian person. Like it's meant to be read as a pseudo in-joke from a Christian author to a Christian reader. It might seem to be bashing Pagan/other faiths at first, but actually, I believe it's bashing Christianity more than anything else.

It reads as if instructing a Christian to not worry about those other people who believe in other things-- to feel safe because they know God made everything, etc. And to pity those other religions for not understanding they're misguided, for they'll one day burn in hell. But it does so in a manner that suggests the author is actually not Christian; it has a very "mocking Christianity" tone.

As for the last verse, with God laughing, well, I'm not sure I see why it offends. I'm with Danus (I think she's the one) in that I often imagine the Gods giggling at mankind. I laughed with Shiva just moments ago at my vision of him, where he kind of giggled because I saw him as younger and quite handsome today. And Kali laughs over my mistakes daily. I like to hear laughter. It makes me feel closer to deity.

In this case all the poem is wondering is if the Christian path is the one true way, or if God will laugh because humans don't yet get that no one path is the right way.

Swan, you're Pagan, no? To me it seems that the poem isn't judging you or other Pagans at all, but is more a judgement on Christianity-- so the things you were taking offense to, well, there's no reason. IMO only, of course.

I think the poem holds a pretty important message for anyone thinking that they're the be-all and end-all to religion, be they Christian or any other. The overall theme is trying to get people to understand that they have to accept others' beliefs.

[mol]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
What does that mean exactly ??
"Your opinion is noted."


I wanted to make sure you know that I (and probably others) can see your 'opinion' of your interpretation of the poem. Now we can continue with the discussion.

[mol]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
What A Friend We Have...

Why should it matter what you thinkfirst of all it does matter to me what I think
or what you hold as real, it is written in the third person POINTING At the reader


I want to point out that I have written many songs that say YOU, YOU, YOU and trust me...I was talking about myself. So, while I see your opinion that it 'could' be directed at someone else. This is not just a cold hard fact. It is opinion.

I state that he could be talking about himself through the whole work.

[Swanspirit]

well......my analysis is over as far as I am concerned ... doesnt warrant more in depth analysis........
Love and Light
Swannie

[Myst]

"And will god sadly shake his head
and marvel at their blunder
or will he simply turn away
and laugh in booming thunder?"

Who's he laughing at? Anyone? In general? At human nature? At the crazy way his teachings were perverted? Since when is laughing automatically an act of cruelty? I think it means that in the end perhaps people take things too seriously, perhaps this God is more of a joker and a comedian then a judge, and perhaps more people need to think about that. I know I've laughed with my Gods.

[MistOfTheSea86]

But I feel the poem was still a bit out of line. I am all for teaching how people sometimes pervert their beliefs, but to me, the way it was worded offended myself and a few others. I could have misread although, so I apologize EP I was not trying to thrash out upon you.

[MistOfTheSea86]

this poem had a nice rythym and can teach a lesson to those who think deep inside of each phrase. At first I did not, but I read it again and can easliy see. But I do feel it can be found offensive to some. It still somewhat irks me, but only to the point of opinion and not moderation. Again I am sorry...

[amberlaine]

There's just no pleasing people.

i still think they should teach reading comprehension in school

[MistOfTheSea86]

Originally posted by amberlaine
There's just no pleasing people.

i still think they should teach reading comprehension in school

They do:) And I usually do very well:D Hey I'm human cant expect me to get everything right lol.

But back on Topic.:)

[amberlaine]

Dont worry doll that wasn't directed at you or anyone else. Just a general oservation.

[Xander67]

ok i GUESS this one was one where you have to read it all the way through, I did read it all the way through the first time, but it freaked me out so much that at the end, I didnt get it,

but after reading it again, then a third time, I feel dumb now:(

[Da Witch]

Originally posted by amberlaine
There's just no pleasing people.

i still think they should teach reading comprehension in school

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm.......they do. There's even a section for it on the SATs.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Da Witch


Ummmmmmmmmmmmm.......they do. There's even a section for it on the SATs.

Sometimes I wonder.

But then I was in the class in grade 11 where our media teacher was confounded to find we were never taught grammar in primary school. :)

I had to read the poem about 3 times before I could really understand it too. I think the topic of this thread is very appropriate - this poem really made me have to think :)

[MistOfTheSea86]

I just read it again:) Boy do I feel like an idiot LOL, this was a good poem, and requires thinking to discover its tru meaning:) Poems like this are great:)

[Xander67]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Da Witch


Ummmmmmmmmmmmm.......they do. There's even a section for it on the SATs.


:eek: :ack: school on saturday?? that means no cartoons :)

[loopy]

Xand... I think she meant SAT's as in the big test seniors take at the end of high school, that counts towards college and the like.

:) I totally forget what the acronym stands for... Scholastic Aptitude Test, maybe? *shrug*

[Xander67]

I knew Loopy :) i was just being a geek

[flar7]

But I caught it on the first pass. IMO
It seems to me to be a person, maybe a christian, talking to another christian. And sort of bashes? not an appropriate term but makes the christian think about his path and those he considers wrong. The ending poses a question, saying "will God laugh..." not stating it. Very insightful, and for a poem, quite thought provoking.

I kinda came late to this party, so some have already stated things that I have written, but, what the hey!

:boing:

[loopy]

Originally posted by Xander67
I knew Loopy :) i was just being a geek

Oh, oops. Hee. :D:D

[Xander67]

yes flar, on first pass this one really freaked me out too, but read it again with an open mind......:)

[flar7]

I think. I got it on the first pass. It isnt anti pagan, its more anti close minded christian, fundamentalist.

[Da Witch]

Originally posted by loopy


:) I totally forget what the acronym stands for... Scholastic Aptitude Test, maybe? *shrug*

Yep you got it ;)

[EasternPriest]

The poem doesn't bash any path or belief system. What it really asks the reader to do is look at their own faith and their own prejudices. You could be of any faith, feeling that others are wrong, and the thoughts behind the poem apply. It wouldn't matter if you were christian, hindu, muslim, pagan, etc.....

[EasternPriest]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
it IS the poem I find offensive not the post.....and of course the discussion of dichotomous beleifs is allowed .....I would not like that poem no matter where I saw it....... I have seen other christian poetry that reflect the same sentiment and ideas without suggesting the god is thundrously laughing at anyone.........
Love and light
Swannie

Well, since none of us can claim to speak for God, we don't know whether or not laughter is a part of the Almighty.

If God does laugh at what we humans do sometimes, it really wouldn't matter whether we like it or not.