Do you believe in Satan?

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

Okay I've come across a few things today that have made me wonder how many people believe in Satan as in the arc-angel, the nemisis of God. As in an actual being that is ssomewhere in the recesses of hell

As you may know from my posts,I dont believe in a deity. My beliefs of God and Satan are more like:
a) God represents the good and beautiful things in nature
b) Satan represents the evil and unnatural things
I dont believe in either Satan or God as actual beings.
That's just a basic outline of my beliefs on it, I will expand further as this goes on.

Everyone's opinions and discussion are welcome, but the question is especially for those Christians on MW. I'm very interested in everyone's thoughts on this.

So, do you believe in Satan? If so, in what form?

[Carla O'Harris]

Well, all of this is very dependent upon semantics, but if by Satan we mean the "accuser", the part of ourselves that rebels against the life-impulses, supports f/cked up power dynamics, is constantly ruthlessly criticizing ourselves and others, robbing all of worth, then, yes, I think these are very real dynamics that could be personified. Is there some spiritual being behind the scenes pulling these strings? How the hell would I know? But that makes these forces no less real. Thing is, this, though : such an ugly set of forces has nothing to do with the folk-demons and satyrical dark-fairies of Europe, and thus I think shouldn't be visualized or portrayed in that way.

[RubyRose]

No I don't believe in Satan.

[Djiril]

I dunno, but I have read some interesting interpretations of Satan that go against the mainstream Christian view of him.

One is that Satan is just another angel who does not have free will apart from God, and that God tells Satan to tempt mankind for a reason.

A book I read called "The Way of Flame" by Avram Davis went into this a bit. I forget exactly how it explained it, but I remember something about an angel who stands behind every blade of grass with a crowbar saying "Grow! Grow!"

Er... I hope that made sense to someone since I'm not in the position to look it up right now!

[Luminessence]

I don't believe in evil as an actual force opposed to good. So it wouldn't really make much sense for me to believe in Satan.

[Darkdale]

I believe in Satan as an enemy god of the Christian and Jewish Deity; that being said, whether or not Satan exists has no effect on me whatsoever.

[Brónach Druid]

No, I do not believe in Satan.

[Karma Chameleon]

Nope, I don't believe in Satan.

[John_Mischief]

I believe in the possibility of Satan as a semetic deity/angel/whatever, but not as the embodiment of evil or anything like that. It doesn't really mattter to me either way.

[Ojuice5001]

My views on Satan's existence are based on the conspiracy-theory approach I take to the activity of Yahweh. Simply because I believe both that the old gods exist, and that Yahweh, although not essentially different from them, has made himself disproportionately influential. It follows that the way he did it was a kind of conspiracy.

This conspiracy, put simply, is that Yahweh claims to be the creator of the universe, the only god, and perfectly good. (I am well aware, however, that there was a time when the Jews had started worshipping him but hadn't yet been made to believe this doctrine.) So if Yahweh claims to be perfectly good, but evil events happen, they need to be blamed on someone or something else. He could blame his real competition, gods like Baal and Marduk. But that would mean admitting they exist, and he doesn't always prefer to do that. So he invented a scapegoat known as Satan. Any event that seemed to result from the gods' activity, but that Yahweh didn't want to take credit for, could simply be blamed on Satan.

So my view is that Satan is both unreal and an essential prop for any monotheism of the Christian type.

[Meadhbh]

If you ask me satan is nothing but a physiological archetype used to keep christain in line. One of those, this could be you if you step out of line things. I do find it interesting that until the comming of christianity that there was no record of any one actually going to hell, with the classic hell fire and damnation thing going on.

[Catiana]

No, I don't believe in satan

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

This is awesome stuff guys, great discussion, I have heard of a few of the theories/legends listed so far and others are new to me. The posts are all really interesting. Keep it coming. :)

[BrigidMoon]

This is awesome stuff guys, great discussion, I have heard of a few of the theories/legends listed so far and others are new to me. The posts are all really interesting. Keep it coming. :)

I'm the only one that voted "Um...who?" cause I'm a goober. :lol:

You know, that wasn't stressed a lot growing by my parents. I mean, there's gotta be balance of good and bad. I don't know if we need to believe in Satan to have that evidence, you know? Hard to say. I don't really believe in Satan. There are energies and such that resemble that description I guess. You ask really good questions!

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

I'm the only one that voted "Um...who?" cause I'm a goober. :lol:

You know, that wasn't stressed a lot growing by my parents. I mean, there's gotta be balance of good and bad. I don't know if we need to believe in Satan to have that evidence, you know? Hard to say. I don't really believe in Satan. There are energies and such that resemble that description I guess. You ask really good questions!

LOL I wondered who voted that :spinner:

Thanks for the compliment hon :p

[magickman12]

'Satan' means 'adversary', so anything could be Satan: an addiction, an enemy, a struggle. As far as a real entity called Satan, no and here is why:
Supposedly, Satan was second in heaven, and thus possessed of superhuman insight and cunning, yet his pride led him to rebel against God. Yet if he was so smart, he should have come up with the conclusion that God would have a plan to cope with his rebellion. After all, it has been laid open in Scripture where man and demon alike can read it. Satan should be well aware that to the extent he encourages people to act in the fashion already described in the prophecies, he will in fact be helping God carry out His divine plan. Some rebel! It would be far more rebellious for him to do nothing. Force God to do His own dirty work.
For a superhuman power, second only to God in intelligence, to so conveniently and willingly play the role that God requires of him, while remaining his implacable foe, is absurd. This is especially the case when God continually rubs it in by publishing all over the world what Satan will do before he does it. Do you not think that Satan has read the Bible?
Also, if Satan were truly God’s enemy, then wouldn't he have let Jesus die of old age. Standard theology suggests that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Thus, had Jesus died naturally, then we could not now be saved, for according to most Christian views it took his death as some sort of sacrifice to make God’s forgiveness of our sins possible. What greater blow could Satan give to God and humanity than that?
Lastly, if Satan were God’s true enemy, then why doesn’t God just destroy him? God had no trouble wiping out the whole population of the Earth with His flood. He had no qualm about destroying the Tower of Babel or sending a she-bear after the little children who made fun of Isaiah’s bald head. He had no trouble ordering the destruction of countless men, women and children during the conquest of Canaan, so what could it hurt Him to destroy the one opponent that supposed to be the greatest threat to His people?

[Ninjakitten]

Honestly, I'm not totally sure if Satan is an actual being, or if he is just an archetype or mascot for a concept, but either way he represents rebellion versus the Creator. I believe he could be an actual fallen angel because the Gospels mention that Jesus was tempted by him (though that could always be a parable, too). If nothing else, he is the embodiment of that which the Diety doesn't find as favorable traits, and puts an emphasis on pride and lying as being things that seperate us from the Diety and that which is good. I'm still trying to figure out Satan myself, though I don't pay much mind to him as much as concepts he represents, even if he is an actual fallen angel. Ruler of Hell? Maybe, but more likely "ruler" of this physical world.

[Aquarian_Moon]

I don't really believe in Satan, because his entire creational concept, and pure 'evilness' doesn't fit in with my beliefs. If he exists for most Christians, then he must be real for them, but on my path, he doesn't exist.

Still, it's always possible that there might be some strong demon spirit or vile deity out there which is influencing us in negative ways. Who knows? :rolleyes:

[azzeenasman]

Yes,and I dont like him,his death and destruction and deciet and hate has fouled the history of humankind,he is a master deciever and ruthless and full of hate.He loves no one but himself,no one pleases him,he see,s God in us,and hates us for that.He is as a roaring lion,seeking whom he may devour,he trembles at the name of Jesus Christ and was defeted by him at the cross,his doom is sure,his time will end,and he knows it.

[MBeeHny]

There's no being called "Satan" - there IS evil energy, that's all. Good pure energy could not exist without the Evil.

[Gede]

MM~
I do not believe that there is a source from which all evil stems (i.e. a sentient being/force). I do however acknowledge that the concept of Satan or Shaitan, in the Kabbalistic sense, is a valid one i.e. the idea that Satan, the adversary, represents the illusory cancer that provokes a sense of suffering within us all.

Namaste, Gede...

[AmbivalentMirage]

I believe that Satan is just another representation of something that humans could not deal with consciously without some kind of personified construct. A reason was needed for the pain and suffering in the world - an adversary to the great Creator/Creatrix who gives life. Thus, Satan (and similar legends) were born.

I had a strong believe in Satan and demons for most of my life, but I've come to realize that, in the religious sect I was in, Satan was simply used to blame any failures we might have. If your morals cracked and you did something wrong, Satan pressed you into it. When a child misbehaved, it was demonic. (Not kidding - my friends were exorcised for talking in church...)

So, I voted "no". However, I'm a strong believer that if humans put enough energy into something, it begins to exist. So, with all the people who believe that Satan exists - it is possible!

[Flar's Freyja]

Old Eyes.......I first thought it said "Do you believe in Santa?"

:reindeer: :santasmil

No, I don't believe in Satan. When you believe in something, you give it power.

[EponaCapaill]

First I must say that I believe that hell is something that we experience here on earth, either (usually) of our own doing or because of something that has been done to us. So, I do not believe that Satan is an actual entity.

[Queenorivers]

i dont believe in satan as such but as satan symbolises evil, there is a bit of satan in everyone

[SweetIsTheTruth]

There is no evidence of Satan's existence other than the bible. The bible tells us Jehovah lied by telling Adam and Eve they would die if they ate the fruit. The serpent, supposedly Satan, told them they wouldn't die if they ate the fruit. They ate the fruit and lived for many, many years thereafter, which proves the serpent to be honest and Jehovah to be the liar. Next, Jehovah found out they ate the fruit. Did Jehovah condemn the two alleged wrong-doers? No! He then condemned ALL humanity who would ever be born thereafter for the alleged "sin" Adam and Eve committed. Even a 5 year old understands you punish the wrong doers, not the innocent, but Jehovah doesn't have the sense of a 5 year old.

Then Jehovah allegedly floods the entire earth, perpetrating mass murder on the scale that Hitler or Stalin could only dream about. Jehovah then goes on to advise us to take slaves from the nations surrounding us, even commanding us to make slaves of children. Jehovah then commands us to make sure we don't covet our neighbor's slaves and make sure we give our slaves Sunday off. He then commands us to stone our smart-mouthed sons to death! Yet people still believe that Satan is evil? Are they serious?

Whether Satan exists or not, I have far more sympathy for Satan, than Jehovah. Even if one were to take the fables in the bible seriously, Satan committed far fewer crimes against humanity than Jehovah ever did. Aside from that, he truly is the bringer of knowledge to humanity, along the lines of Prometheus. I hope Satan exists, whether within or without. I doubt there is any other being in history who has had his character so wrongly maligned as Satan. Satan accepts man as he is, warts and all.

[thirstforknowledge]

I believe in Satan as an enemy god of the Christian and Jewish Deity; that being said, whether or not Satan exists has no effect on me whatsoever.

Actually, in the Jewish tradition, Satan is not considered an enemy of God.

[WinterTree]

I don't believe in Satan in the sense that I don't believe in an ultimate source of evil. But I do definately believe in evil.

[HorseCrow]

No, I do not believe in Satan.

[Mistress_Ravenshadow]

i voted for i believe in satan in a different way
the reason i voted this way is that i once read that to name evil is to create evil.. which i do believe.. i believe 'satan' is a negative energy being created by christianity.. probably something along the lines of a servitor i guess.. so yes i believe satan exists.. but no i dont not believe in him/it as a deity only as something created by christians.. satan only exists IMO because christians believe in him/it and feed him/it the energy needed to exist

[Sins_Under_The_Halo]

I have a sesh with Satan every Saturday night! :smoke: He's hot stuff! LOL

Nah on a serious note I believe he's not as superficial as people make him out to be...he deserves a bit of respect (and no I'm not a satanist....but I think that instead of saying "Satan is pure evil" we should think "What can we bennefit from Satan's doing?"

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

i voted for i believe in satan in a different way
the reason i voted this way is that i once read that to name evil is to create evil.. which i do believe..

That's an interesting point. I have to agree with you on that. I think the more one speaks of evils the more people in general know of them hence the more evil occurs.

[AmbivalentMirage]

There is no evidence of Satan's existence other than the bible. The bible tells us Jehovah lied by telling Adam and Eve they would die if they ate the fruit. The serpent, supposedly Satan, told them they wouldn't die if they ate the fruit. They ate the fruit and lived for many, many years thereafter, which proves the serpent to be honest and Jehovah to be the liar. Next, Jehovah found out they ate the fruit. Did Jehovah condemn the two alleged wrong-doers? No! He then condemned ALL humanity who would ever be born thereafter for the alleged "sin" Adam and Eve committed. Even a 5 year old understands you punish the wrong doers, not the innocent, but Jehovah doesn't have the sense of a 5 year old.

Then Jehovah allegedly floods the entire earth, perpetrating mass murder on the scale that Hitler or Stalin could only dream about. Jehovah then goes on to advise us to take slaves from the nations surrounding us, even commanding us to make slaves of children. Jehovah then commands us to make sure we don't covet our neighbor's slaves and make sure we give our slaves Sunday off. He then commands us to stone our smart-mouthed sons to death! Yet people still believe that Satan is evil? Are they serious?

Whether Satan exists or not, I have far more sympathy for Satan, than Jehovah. Even if one were to take the fables in the bible seriously, Satan committed far fewer crimes against humanity than Jehovah ever did. Aside from that, he truly is the bringer of knowledge to humanity, along the lines of Prometheus. I hope Satan exists, whether within or without. I doubt there is any other being in history who has had his character so wrongly maligned as Satan. Satan accepts man as he is, warts and all.

I don't want to focus on this - I just want to say that some people here, including myself, worship the G-d of the Bible and consider G-d just as holy as any other deity. Please be considerate of others feelings and religious convictions. :)

Oh, and as someone else pointed out, Judaism doesn't see Satan the same way Christianity does. In Judaism (please correct me if I'm wrong - I am a beginner! ;)), Satan is simply an agent of G-d, sent to the earth to test us and prove or disprove our efforts towards holiness. :)

[SweetIsTheTruth]

I just want to say that some people here, including myself, worship the G-d of the Bible and consider G-d just as holy as any other deity. Please be considerate of others feelings and religious convictions. :)

I am sorry that the bible states the things quoted in my post, but that is what it says. For me to state what it says, in no way disrespects those who believe in that diety. The facts are the facts. I can provide verses which support everything stated in my original post if need be.

[mental_copper]

he is my favorite super villain

[Aelfoak]

Okay I've come across a few things today that have made me wonder how many people believe in Satan as in the arc-angel, the nemisis of God. As in an actual being that is ssomewhere in the recesses of hell

As you may know from my posts,I dont believe in a deity. My beliefs of God and Satan are more like:
a) God represents the good and beautiful things in nature
b) Satan represents the evil and unnatural things
I dont believe in either Satan or God as actual beings.
That's just a basic outline of my beliefs on it, I will expand further as this goes on.

Everyone's opinions and discussion are welcome, but the question is especially for those Christians on MW. I'm very interested in everyone's thoughts on this.

So, do you believe in Satan? If so, in what form?

No, i believe the word "Satan" is a Christian invention, i am Pagan so therefore i do not believe.

[wakywitch]

Nope I don't.

[BelovedDru]

I'm not too sure what to believe on this--I'm sort of a hypocrite on this subject.

[Jenne]

Old Eyes.......I first thought it said "Do you believe in Santa?"

:reindeer: :santasmil

No, I don't believe in Satan. When you believe in something, you give it power.

Wow, good answer, Frey! And very true for me too.

I believe in forces that are up to no good, but an evil entity that wants to suck the good out of people and make them do bad? No.

The Biblical Satan is an interesting figure to study. He's sort of like this evil teenager, forever taunting and wanting to taunt. Pushing the limits of God's and Jesus's patience. It would be interesting to find all the passages about Satan/the Devil and compare/contrast them.

[lightdragon]

In the modern Christian concept ,I do not believe in Satan as the adversary of the Christian/Judian deity. I believe it was a title of an angel and sometimes humans.and many angels(and humans) took on the role of "Satan". As this term usually means "opponent". This eventually led to writing of the book of Job. Also for the horns part. I saw certain statues of Moses have them. These were considered symbols of power. And the Adam and Eve thing, one dude thought the word "Satan" was derived from the Hebrew word of serpent . So the devil as people know it has nothing to do with the fall of Adam and Eve.

[MoonDust]

Nope. I believe the idea of "satan" is actually people trying to give evil and evil acts a name. A scape goat. "Satan was with in him when he committed that act."
I think people should be accountable for their own actions.

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

Nope. I believe the idea of "satan" is actually people trying to give evil and evil acts a name. A scape goat. "Satan was with in him when he committed that act."
I think people should be accountable for their own actions.

I agree.

[Illuminatus]

Wow, a lot of satan believers here. Cool! Sorry that I'm not one of them.

[lightdragon]

Nope. I believe the idea of "satan" is actually people trying to give evil and evil acts a name. A scape goat. "Satan was with in him when he committed that act."
I think people should be accountable for their own actions.
These are not really my beliefs. I just go by what was recorded. My belief is i don`t know.
I agree with the above statement in only when the Xian age became dominant.

[AuroraSilvermist]

Don't believe in Satan. Don't much believe in deity, either. Though I won't deny the existance of a higher energy, I don't see it as sentient or any form of "being." So I guess the simple answer is, no.

[Aidron]

I don't believe or disbelieve in him. I view him much like I do the Christian god and all other gods outside my own in that they may exist, probably do (with some deities being more likely to exist than others in my opinion due to research), but I ignore them and from how my life goes I suppose it is mutual.

If he does exist I certainly can't imagine being fearful of him, no matter how definite the proof of his existence is, or any other divine being. Seeing as Athene governs strategy, war (particularly defense) and has never lost in any scenario featuring her throughout Hellenic mythology I doubt any deity would want to toy with me and potentially risk her wrath. ;)

[Luminessence]

Nope. I believe the idea of "satan" is actually people trying to give evil and evil acts a name. A scape goat. "Satan was with in him when he committed that act."
I think people should be accountable for their own actions.

Yeah, my boyfriend's little sister (she's 6) went to Bible camp with her friend (her family is pagan, but her friend is very Christian), and she came back saying that when she did things wrong it wasn't her fault, it was the Devil's fault.

[Aidron]

Nope. I believe the idea of "satan" is actually people trying to give evil and evil acts a name. A scape goat. "Satan was with in him when he committed that act."
I think people should be accountable for their own actions.


Some Pagans do it as well. The Law of Return, Rule of Three and karma have all been professed in similar fashions, particularly in frightening others who steer too far from someone else's moral code. Scape goats have existed for as long as humanity as I'm sure. People are always looking for something to fault so that the blame on their part is lessened or so that they can control others while maintaining a sense of righteousness.

[zos]

I believe in satan when its convenient to and dont believe in satan when its not convenient to. Thats how i am wiht evrything realy. :halohead: :viking: :evilway: _firedevil _wiz_ _witchball :stomp:

[Willow Rosemerta]

I really don't believe in Satan, but I do believe that he exist for other people. I mean I believe in faeries and other mythical creatures. So why should anyone else be different? If someone believes in something so much and actually gives it reason to exist, then it can. Just like some people don't believe in faeries, does that make them any less real to me, nope, it gives me all the more to know they exist. :D

[Sleet]

John Milton's Satan? No. Satan the Tempter of the Bible? No. However I don't discount the idea that there's an entity that rejoices in the suffering of others.

[Trithemius]

I think the concept of "Satan" was invented by Christianity as an explanation for evil in a world created by a "good" God.

So no, I don't believe in Satan as a being that actually exists.

[dr_zeus440]

from a sensory point of view, i experience the awareness of a presence that fills the position that satan would fill. it also has characteristics that i would attribute to satan (the two most important being insipid and vaguely sentient). therefore, i guess i have to say that i believe in the existence of an entity that could be satan.

from a cognitive point of view, i dont know. at the very least, not in the same way that he is represented in bible. not entirely, anyway.

[mvdude]

I think that it's POSSIBLE that all the energy that christians and satanists attribute to him, and all the concentration on him, could have created a godform with the attributes of satan. however, as he is not relevent to my path, i don't recognize him as a deity, and still remain skeptical as to whether or not he is an actual being.

[midniteobsidian]

I don't believe in Satan as a being, the whole earth being a battle ground between two powers. I do believe however we all have good and evil in us. Some are born with a predispotition for one or the other, but ultimately we chose our own path in life.

This is just skimming the top of what I believe on this subject.

[Infinite Grey]

Sure I believe in Satan as a being, he is a twit of an angle that took on Yahweh , lost, and takes his petty revenge on humans. Do I believe he is the source of all evil, no.

[SohaliaGrimorie]

John Milton's Satan? No. Satan the Tempter of the Bible? No. However I don't discount the idea that there's an entity that rejoices in the suffering of others.

This pretty much sums me up, also.

[Kern]

Nope---------IMO If there is a being named or known as Satan then there has to be one known as Yahweh,and if these are the same beings as the Bible states they are; then we are all lost and condemned,because all other gods or beliefs contrary to Yahweh and his way is of the devil Satan(according to the Bible)..So it doesnt make since to believe in such a being or beings if one is pagan..............

Do I believe in evil and a supreme being of evil......No.......but I do believe that there is good and bad in all things.

[Fane Ayuma]

no i dont, im not christian.

i do find it offensive though when christians call me a satanist/satan worshipper, because of what they believe satan to be and then saying that im in league with him


Christians came up with satan, and they can keep him.

[IrishRiotGrrrl]

I believe in Satan, not as an actual being but more as a figurative thing. Meaning: I believe that Satan is anything "evil" which is a very broad term. By evil I mean like a pedafile or a serial rapist. I think these people have evil in them...or a satan in them so to speak...if that makes any frickin' sense. LOL! I dont know maybe someone gets me.

[MorningDove030202]

But, how can anything that IS be unnatural? Given that all life and things on earth ultimatly come from nature how can anything be Unnatural?

Dove


As you may know from my posts,I dont believe in a deity. My beliefs of God and Satan are more like:
a) God represents the good and beautiful things in nature
b) Satan represents the evil and unnatural things
I dont believe in either Satan or God as actual beings.
That's just a basic outline of my beliefs on it, I will expand further as this goes on.

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

But, how can anything that IS be unnatural? Given that all life and things on earth ultimatly come from nature how can anything be Unnatural?

Dove

Good point.
The most perfect example of something "unnatural" that I can think of is paedophilia. IMO.

[:: taceo ::]

Wow, i'm really suprised how many people voted 'No'.

I think that it's POSSIBLE that all the energy that christians and satanists attribute to him, and all the concentration on him, could have created a godform with the attributes of satan.

Do i believe in Satan as in source of all evil, going to hell etc - No. But based on the above, i find it difficult to suggest how it could be possible he doesn't exist on one plane or another. Just as with other entities or deities, just because i don't worship or acknowledge their existence - doesn't make them any less real.

Perhaps it's just my CM background?

[fangedeshana]

I don't believe in Satan, as a being or a force, or anything.

That's not to say that I don't belive in any kind of entities (spirits, demons...etc) that enjoy tormenting, teasing or scaring others for some kind of pleasure. I just don't belive in an ultimate evil source.

[~*Ginger*~]

I use to, but then one day my dad told me that it was him, and mother is the tooth fairy.

[mvdude]

I use to, but then one day my dad told me that it was him, and mother is the tooth fairy.

LOL!

[TrueWalker]

I don't think that Satan is real. I am of the mind that Satan was created by Christians to scare people into their faith. :eyebrow:

[Cassie]

No I don't believe in the Judao/Christian concept of satan as a being.
I do believe that some people and possibly some other entities are capable of evil thoughts, words and deeds.

[xstarE_nitex]

I do not believe in satan... all I know there is balance between good and evil... and its only peoples falt for the bad deeds they do.... not a being that made them do it...

[Ninjakitten]

I don't think that Satan is real. I am of the mind that Satan was created by Christians to scare people into their faith. :eyebrow:


Darn! He's on to us! :hehehe:

[CaitrionaMorgaine]

I do not believe in Satan. As someone who is neither a Christian or a Satanist, there is no role in my spirituality for Satan.

Avalon's Blessings, ~Rhiannon

[mcc]

I didn't believe in satan when I was a christian, I don't believe in satan now.

[Calen]

I think that there are negative forces and impulses in all of us, but that they can be overcome with strength of character, and that there isn't some Big Bad Jerk out there trying to claim our souls for his fiery dominion.
So, no. :)

[omar]

Satan did not exsist untill he was created by the Christians,because the church leaders needed a scapegoat.

[AquariusWolf]

I believe that Satan is just another representation of something that humans could not deal with consciously without some kind of personified construct. A reason was needed for the pain and suffering in the world - an adversary to the great Creator/Creatrix who gives life. Thus, Satan (and similar legends) were born.

I had a strong believe in Satan and demons for most of my life, but I've come to realize that, in the religious sect I was in, Satan was simply used to blame any failures we might have. If your morals cracked and you did something wrong, Satan pressed you into it. When a child misbehaved, it was demonic. (Not kidding - my friends were exorcised for talking in church...)

So, I voted "no". However, I'm a strong believer that if humans put enough energy into something, it begins to exist. So, with all the people who believe that Satan exists - it is possible!

Hello, this is Aquarious Wolf's husband. Checking out the interesting thread on a topic of great importance in almost any perspective (though not all as stated). It is late though so rather randomly I'm going to post here... this thread is a long read, finish later

So dear fellow whom wrote this post. You stated that your previous belief in Satan... " Satan was simply used to blame any failures we might have"

If you happen to read this reply I shall state also that this practice is quite accurately the second most classic sin of humanity. For biblical reference I would direct you to Gen 1: at the point in which God confronts Adam and Eve on their proud decision to defy the God whom gave them paradise. The first thing both of them do is blame their wrongdoing on another: Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed Satan, and God took none of that but instead upheld the justice which he spoke having happen exactly what he said would: "You will surely die"

I would personally agree that it never seems to work out well blaming Satan or something else for our own faults. Really though, isn't that what we all do in one way or another?? I definately wouldn't want to face the Wrath of a God who can find us even when we are hiding behind trees and stuff. I'd rather make believe all kinds of things to get me out of feeling accountable for everything I do :hahugh: ;) NO SATAN, NO GOD, NO HELL!!!! or maybe God (I hear he is a good guy), so long as he only condemns evil stuff I don't like anyways 8O .

[LadyCelt]

I have heard there are thinngs in other realms/dimensions or what have you that make Satan lok like nothing, that's something I'm wondering aobut.

I do feel Atan exists. I also feel God exists. I feel he can take many forms too. He is also an "angel of light" and isn't always scaring peole but enticing them with things they think are good.

[2-G]

I don't believe in any force of ultimate good or ultimate evil.

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

This is all really great stuff guys. It's really interesting. :smile:

[*kebra-moonstone*]

i don't believe in satan and i don't believe in god infact i don't believe in anything till i see it with my own two eyes.

[Athene]

What is fascinating to me, a Christian (renegade), is that some neo-Pagans actively refuse to believe in Satan because they are not Christian. Yet, simultaneously believe in the gods of Egyptians, Greeks, Norse, Celtic ...... It was this that inspired me to blog about it just recently.

Just a quickie from a Christian - not all Christians believe that Satan is the opposite of God. As a taditional witch, I don't believe in polarity anyway.
However, in as much as any god exists, why wouldn't Satan exist? Every pantheon has their dark gods.

Mainstream Christians are of course scared of using the word 'god' in refering to Satan, so historically we relegated everyone down to angels and demons, etc.

Here's another thought: if you believe that thoughts are a reality, then everything exists (think of what is known by some as the astral plane) And ideas that are conceptualised by thousands certainly must exist.

:)

[Loopaleigh]

I believe literally in this.....

"All goddesses are one Goddess, all gods are one God, and they are both aspects of the One (or Absolute Divine).

So ,yes and no.....

No, I do not believe that Satan is an actual entity or "god", but because I am an Archetypal Polytheist, I will conceded that I think he is an ASPECT of the Divine as a Whole.....just the same as I see Loki, Eris, Prometheus, or Set as ASPECTS of the Divine as a Whole, but not literal beings.

I also think Jesus and the Christian God are aspects of the Divine also, but NOT the Divine in it's TOTALITY. I don't worship them, don't particualy like them much, but for millions of people around the world they are "real"....they are the aspects of the Divine that some people believe in, which gives them as much validity as anyone else's gods. (Although why anyone would want to limit themselves to just 2 is beyond me :) )

I realize for the Hard Polytheists on the board they may think very differently about the subject, so not meant to offend to those that are HP, just I pretty much catorigize every deity ever "created" into an Archetype. I tend to see things in patterns.

[PaganWik]

yes i believe in satan cause he used to be an angel named lucifer wich was the most powerful angel til god banished him from havan since satan was going against god cause he wanted to be the best. thats why i think the devil and his demons dont have horns and stuff cause their angel except thier evil. lucifer wascompared to the graetness of the sun in the bible cause he was an angel of lite

[SkyClad]

I don't see good and evil, satan and God, as opposites (or real beings for that matter), I see them more as follows...

Satan= Mankind's desires, essentially "forbidden pleasure" that has been outlawed by mainstream religion, such as fornication, gluttony, etc...

God= Pretty much associated with doing whatever the church tells you without asking questions, I guess...

[~DarkDolphyn~]

No, I do not believe in Satan.

[Storm Moon]

I used to, but I don't anymore. I believe that good or evil is a choice among human beings under their own free will. Therefore I refuse to believe that there is a being out there that is an excuse for people to not take responsibility for their actions.

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

I love you guys. These answers are fantastic!!

[PaganWik]

I don't see good and evil, satan and God, as opposites (or real beings for that matter), I see them more as follows...

Satan= Mankind's desires, essentially "forbidden pleasure" that has been outlawed by mainstream religion, such as fornication, gluttony, etc...

God= Pretty much associated with doing whatever the church tells you without asking questions, I guess...
not everythinghas to have a deeper meaning ya now

[wolfchild]

I actually did a Tarot reading on this one night while arguing about wether or nit I'm evil :fpatricks .

The question I asked was "Is the devil real?"

The answer (a little tricky) was yes, but only to each individual as what they feel they do wrong.

Basically, as most here are aware, the universe is neutral, keeps a balance (even if we don't like it sometimes). Evil, the Devil, Satan, whatever, is every individuals id. Lower self, primevil instincts, etc... Whatever you beleive is the face of evil, is what you will see as the face of evil. In other words, it's all you!! :tongueout

[Semjaza]

I won't say whether or not I believe in Satan (with a capital S) but I can accept the possibility of such an entity. It just doesn't concern me too much. Because "Satan" was originally ha-satan, the Accuser, and later became associated with angels, fallen angels, pagan gods, and then became the Adversary of the Christian god on a whole new level, there is now no real "definition" of what Satan is, if he is anything at all.

I do, however, worship the Devil. ;)

With little coherence or common sense,

~Semjaza~
FFFF

[shadowkiss]

^^ :jawdrop:



heh, jp. hmm.. the way i look at it - the universe needs balance. there needs to be evil for there to be good - and all things have a source (whether we recognize them or not!) so the theory, or idea of such an entity, is not out of the question at all

[MerryBe]

Okay I've come across a few things today that have made me wonder how many people believe in Satan as in the arc-angel, the nemisis of God. As in an actual being that is ssomewhere in the recesses of hell

As you may know from my posts,I dont believe in a deity. My beliefs of God and Satan are more like:
a) God represents the good and beautiful things in nature
b) Satan represents the evil and unnatural things
I dont believe in either Satan or God as actual beings.
That's just a basic outline of my beliefs on it, I will expand further as this goes on.

Everyone's opinions and discussion are welcome, but the question is especially for those Christians on MW. I'm very interested in everyone's thoughts on this.

So, do you believe in Satan? If so, in what form?

Not anymore, not for a long time.
After years of getting to see what people are capable of, without care as to how bad they can affect another's life, I now believe that people have a choice.

With that choice to do harm or do good, comes responsibility. I have seen some people do some pretty rotten things to others and blame the devil.
I guess in my path, the way I view it now, bad/evil lurks in the hearts of people, and its their choice to embark on it or not.

Hmm, just thinking here...had I believed in Satan then I would say that I had been married to his brother! Trust me when I say, that the last thing I would want to hear him say is "the devil made me do it"!


But no, I don't believe in Satan, nor do I believe in hell, for some out there who suffer, it is hell.

Just my own opinion of course,

Blessings,
MerryBe

[Amelserru_halqu]

I feel that all other gods are satan (opponents, advesaries) to YHWH and he grouped all forces that weren't against him together as the opposers of his will. This makes sense if you think about it... and the rest of it is all scare tactics

so in this sense satan is not one but a collective and is not evil (the whole evil steal your soul thing is just scare tactics)

that's my two cents

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

(the whole evil steal your soul thing is just scare tactics)



:hehehehe: Heh heh....why dont you check out my link in my signature that says "give it to me baby"

Seriously though, thanks for your opinion, I'm really enjoying reading this thread.

[SkyClad]

yeah Q o T D, what's up with that link???

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

Bwwwaahahhaahaaa

_whistle_

nothing....nothing at all......I have no idea what you mean.......:smile:

:lilangel:






_pino_

[SkyClad]

I'm kind of scared...

am I gonna have Jehovah's Witnesses at my door or something?

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

Could happen....stranger things have be known to....LOL

I got it off Kyra Kismet from her signature.......I stole the link from her after she stole my soul :)
Fair's fair aint it :nyah:

:abbed: < my mood today

[DancingCrow3]

I personally don't believe in any being that is purely good or purely evil. I think that such concepts are no more than just that-concepts. "God" being a concept that mankind perhaps should strive for, "Satan" being that concept that man should strive to rise above. Of course, that is taking for granted the validity of the Judeo-Christian concepts of good and evil to begin with. And that is a big, big leap.

[David19]

I do believe in satan as an actual entity because i believe that all gods are independent entities and not created by humans. I don't see him as being pure evil although part of him probably is since i believe most beings human or other have evil in them although some may have more or less than someone else. I don't see him and Yahweh as hating each other bitterly, maybe their just competitive. I think satan represents individuality as that is what most other satanists seem to be about and delving into unknown realms - magically or other. There's a site run by a satanist called Diane Vera and i think she has some good concepts on satan as well as the other gods.

[StellaLuna]

No.
I've always thought Satan was just a Judeo-Christian concept, so therefore holds no weight or bearing in my belief structure.

[wooleybob]

I'm the only one that voted "Um...who?" cause I'm a goober. :lol:

You know, that wasn't stressed a lot growing by my parents. I mean, there's gotta be balance of good and bad. I don't know if we need to believe in Satan to have that evidence, you know? Hard to say. I don't really believe in Satan. There are energies and such that resemble that description I guess. You ask really good questions!
Nope..I voted the same..lol
I dont belive in Satan or God...j/m/o

[wintermagick]

As you may know from my posts,I dont believe in a deity. My beliefs of God and Satan are more like:
a) God represents the good and beautiful things in nature
b) Satan represents the evil and unnatural things
I dont believe in either Satan or God as actual beings.
That's just a basic outline of my beliefs on it, I will expand further as this goes on.

This is probably the closest way to explain how I feel on this subject. I've never been altogether *sure* about the Satan of the Bible, but there is SOMETHING dark within the Universe in which there is no control over that makes grown men rape three month old infants, know what I mean? This brings to mind the subject of the common Pagan belief of "whatever action you do in the web of life acts like a ripple and affects the future of you and those around you"... as opposed to "destiny" or "God's plan". I mean, what could the three month old baby done in the "web of life" to bring this action upon her? Therefore I do feel there is a Satan-type being who has some control over the Universe...

[xstarE_nitex]

I do not believe in satan... espesially in a way its this force that makes people do evil... people are responcible for there own evil doings....
when I was really young I thought the devil was real... esp when I heard about the cave in south america where people said they saw the devil in there and then they closed it off...

[aluokaloo]

well now I believe, I know he is supposed to be one of God's angel, sort of like God's science test partner or something. Hmm, human guinea pigs intriguing idea. Oh..oops! did I say that out loud? :evilway: I sometimes wonder if their God and Satan are laughing it up right now, or if Satan is planning to sue them for libel and slander once they get to Heaven. Maybe thats why they get so much money?:eyebrow:

[Elderbush]

Not my god. I don't care whether he exists or not.

[Darkdale]

I think of Satan as that natural earthly spirit which rebels against that which would seek to destroy spiritual liberty through a One True Religion or a One True God.

[enchancea]

Nope I dont believe in Satan

[Gnoblod]

I tend to believe in Satan on principle; I've nothing to suggest to me that other peoples' gods aren't real in most cases.

[DixieWitch]

Satan is not part of my beliefs....meaning I am Pagan, not Christian. And I see Satan as a Christian diety. So with that said, I believe He is a Christain diety yes, but I do not believe in Him as a Pagan diety. Just as I see Jesus as a Christian diety. Is that confusing?

[Gnoblod]

That's exactly how I feel. :)

[sari0009]

Not only do I not believe in (only one) God or/vs. Satan (Satan is not in my religious paradigm/theology at all) ... I don't get enough out of many (didn't say all) dualisms (between good/evil, nature/manmade, for example) as people repeatedly prove them fallacious, frequently detrimental, and sometimes even fatal.

Oddly, it seems to unnecessarily complicate things to over-simplify with logic errors to begin with. http://www2.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/adhom/dilemma.html

[Ishtara]

This is a very interesting ontological question...

I chose "I don't believe in Satan as an actual being" but now I think I should have voted "I believe in Satan in another way".

I chose the first answer because Satan is not part of my personal belief system. The closest thing to Satan would be a concept (isfet), not a being, even though the snake Apophis is certainly very closely associated to isfet. But I personally see Apophis as a symbol or an allegory, not as an actual being. Moreover, isfet is chaos, unbalance, deception, not "evil".

But does the fact that Satan does not belong to my path mean that I do not believe in Satan? Who am I to say that I am positive Satan does not exist?
After all when I exchange ideas about other Gods and Goddesses here on MW, I do not say that I "do not believe" in, say, Kali, Wotan or Athena because I am on a Kemetic path. I may not work with Them, They may never have manifested Themselves to me but I still believe that They can and do exist.

The Christian path is no different. Satan is very real to a huge number of people throughout the world and I have to respect that.
So from now on I will just say that Satan is not part of my path.

Thank you for such a thought-provoking question! You would think it is easy to define what we believe in and what we do not, but there are many layers to "believing"! :)

[Rin Daemoko]

I believe there are Christians who believe in Satan.
I believe there are Satanists who don't believe in Satan.
I believe there are Chaotes who believe Satan is un/real to some people.

[Cyzarine]

I believe in Satan in another way. I don't really view him as evil, sinnful, lusting kind of way...even though the fundies of my faith would like me to believe he is. I do believe there is a balance to God. If there is good there must be evil. Without each other neither can exist.

[David19]

I do believe in him, although i don't think as an evil being. More like a god who doesn't reveal hisself to a lot of people and who seems to like breaking monopolies (i like some of the stuff on Diane Vera's site). I also don't view him and Yahweh as being totally enemies, i think they may not work with each other that much and probably disagree about a lot of things, probably to do with humans, i think that they may work with each other on occasion too and maybe there is a kind of mutual respect there between the two but neither will openly admit it. I also view Satan as breaking dogma and hating extremes (such as facism), i think maybe his 'masterplan' if he has one, isn't one where there is going to be an ultimate fight where either him or Yahweh will win and the other dies, more like Wolfram and Hart on angel, where he (and probably Yahweh) go on no matter what, in different forms maybe but they'll never be an ultimate winner, i also see him as bringing down dogma's like he probably enjoys challenging the monopaly of Yahweh right now, but he also probably enjoyed challenging the pagan gods when they had the monopaly on the world.

I also view him and Yahweh as being connected somehow and that he may have been only known to the Hebrews (as another name like Azazel, again which is from Diane Vera's site) and showed himself to the Jesus and therefore became in the Christian pantheon, even though a lot of christians don't like saying he's a god.

Anyway those are my beliefs for now, they might change.

[Cyzarine]

I do believe in him, although i don't think as an evil being. More like a god who doesn't reveal hisself to a lot of people and who seems to like breaking monopolies (i like some of the stuff on Diane Vera's site). I also don't view him and Yahweh as being totally enemies, i think they may not work with each other that much and probably disagree about a lot of things, probably to do with humans, i think that they may work with each other on occasion too and maybe there is a kind of mutual respect there between the two but neither will openly admit it. I also view Satan as breaking dogma and hating extremes (such as facism), i think maybe his 'masterplan' if he has one, isn't one where there is going to be an ultimate fight where either him or Yahweh will win and the other dies, more like Wolfram and Hart on angel, where he (and probably Yahweh) go on no matter what, in different forms maybe but they'll never be an ultimate winner, i also see him as bringing down dogma's like he probably enjoys challenging the monopaly of Yahweh right now, but he also probably enjoyed challenging the pagan gods when they had the monopaly on the world.

I also view him and Yahweh as being connected somehow and that he may have been only known to the Hebrews (as another name like Azazel, again which is from Diane Vera's site) and showed himself to the Jesus and therefore became in the Christian pantheon, even though a lot of christians don't like saying he's a god.

Anyway those are my beliefs for now, they might change.

Different view on things. I can see what you mean.

[Vincent Verthaine]

Okay I've come across a few things today that have made me wonder how many people believe in Satan as in the arc-angel, the nemisis of God. As in an actual being that is ssomewhere in the recesses of hell

As you may know from my posts,I dont believe in a deity. My beliefs of God and Satan are more like:
a) God represents the good and beautiful things in nature
b) Satan represents the evil and unnatural things
I dont believe in either Satan or God as actual beings.
That's just a basic outline of my beliefs on it, I will expand further as this goes on.

Everyone's opinions and discussion are welcome, but the question is especially for those Christians on MW. I'm very interested in everyone's thoughts on this.

So, do you believe in Satan? If so, in what form?

From the Book of Eris:

BELIEFS ARE DANGEROUS.
BELIEFS ALLOW THE MIND TO STOP FUNCTIONING.
A NON-FUNCTIONING MIND IS CLINICALLY DEAD.
BELIEVE IN NOTHING.

Knowing the History of Satan(not the christian propaganda the actual history from the Hebrews,Zoroasterians,early xtians,etc)I'd have to say No.
The Closest thing we discordian have to a "Satan" is Gruad Greyface.(o.k.,maybe the "Anti-Bob".)

[farm girl]

I don't believe in Satan as in the red devil with horns and a pitchfork.
I don't believe there is some big old meanie bucket in hell ready to punish me when I die either.

[Philosophia]

I believe in Satan as a diety like any other God, i.e. Lugh, Apollo, Thoth, etc..

[star_belfire]

I don't believe in Satan.

I was raised in a Catholi household and even then I didn't believe in Satan, but I was never really a good Catholic anyway.

[Madjek]

Same here! I grew up in a really "Christian" family and I don't believe in Satan either and I never did, nor do I believe in hell or heaven for that matter. I could never wrap my mind around that concept.
))))M((((

[LostSheep]

Sure i do! I've heard those reindeer hooves on the roof, I've seen the big guy in red climbing down the chimney, it's part of the magic of Christmas ...
oh, Satan! Sorry, i thought it said Santa .... :bigredblu

[Vincent Verthaine]

We Discordians don't have Satan.
we have something far worse and just as imaginary as Satan.
We have Graud Greyface,The Curse of greyface,and "THEM".


from the Principia Discordia
GREYFACE

In the year 1166 B.C., a malcontented hunchbrain by the name of Greyface, got it into his head that the universe was as humorless as he, and he began to teach that play was sinful because it contradicted the ways of Serious Order.
"Look at all the order around you," he said.
And from that, he deluded honest men to believe that reality was a straightjacket affair and not the happy romance as men had known it.

It is not presently understood why men were so gullible at that particular time, for absolutely no one thought to observe all the disorder around them and conclude just the opposite.
But anyway, Greyface and his followers took the game of playing at life more seriously than they took life itself and were known even to destroy other living beings whose ways of life differed from their own.

The unfortunate result of this is that mankind has since been suffering from a psychological and spiritual imbalance. Imbalance causes frustration, and frustration causes fear.
And fear makes for a bad trip.
Man has been on a bad trip for a long time now.

It is called THE CURSE OF GREYFACE.

THE CURSE OF GREYFACE AND THE
INTRODUCTION OF NEGATIVISM

To choose order over disorder, or disorder over order, is to accept a trip composed of both the creative and the destructive.
But to choose the creative over the destructive is an all-creative trip composed of both order and disorder.
To accomplish this, one need only accept creative disorder along with, and equal to, creative order, and also willing to reject destructive order as an undesirable equal to destructive disorder.

The Curse of Greyface included the division of life into order/disorder as the essential positive/negative polarity, instead of building a game foundation with creative/destructive as the essential positive/negative.
He has thereby caused man to endure the destructive aspects of order and has prevented man from effectively participating in the creative uses of disorder.
Civilization reflects this unfortunate division.


POEE (and other discordian cabals world wide) proclaims that the other division is preferable, and we work toward the proposition that creative disorder, like creative order, is possible and desirable; and that destructive order, like destructive disorder, is unnecessary and undesirable.

Seek the Sacred Chao - therein you will find the foolishness of all ORDER/DISORDER. They are the same!

THE FIVE ORDERS OF DISCORDIA ("THEM")
Gen. Pandaemonium, Commanding

The seeds of the ORDERS OF DISCORDIA were planted by Greyface into his early disciples.
They form the skeleton of the Aneristic Movement, which over emphasizes the Principle of Order and is antagonistic to the necessary compliment, the Principle of Disorder.
The Orders are composed of persons all hung up on authority, security and control; i.e., they are blinded by the Aneristic Illusion.
They do not know that they belong to Orders of Discordia.
But we know.

1. The Military Order of THE KNIGHTS OF THE FIVE SIDED TEMPLE. This is for all the soldiers and bureaucrats of the world.
2. The Political Order of THE PARTY FOR WAR ON EVIL.
This is reserved for lawmakers, censors, and like ilk.
3. The Academic Order of THE HEMLOCK FELLOWSHIP.
They commonly inhabit schools and universities, and dominate many of them.
4. The Social Order of THE CITIZENS COMMITTEE FOR CONCERNED CITIZENS. [/i]
This is mostly a grass-roots version of the more professional military, political, academic and sacred Orders.
[u]5. The Sacred Order of THE DEFAMATION LEAGUE.
Not much is known about the D.L., but they are very ancient and quite possibly were founded by Greyface himself.
It is known that they now have absolute domination over all organized churches in the world.
It is also believed that they have been costuming cabbages and passing them off as human beings.

A person belonging to one of more Order
is just as likely to carry a flag of the
counter-establishment as the flag of the
establishment--just as long as it is





We disordians have been battling Greyface and his minions for years
It was recently discovered by the Discordian Intelligence Agency of greyfaces most evil and perhaps most diabolical scheme:

Operation:New Pagan Order

Greyface has been summoning ancient lovecraftian horrors and disguising them as respected pagan Elders.
These "pagan elders" have been infiltrating the pagan community,luring innocent fun loveing pagans into their web of madness,attaching brain sucking leeches into them,and turning those pagans int fun-hating,rabid conservative pagan.

Steps are being taken by the Eristocracy to combat this dire threat to paganism and our freedoms.

[gurlygurl2004]

I used to believe in Satan and hell when I was a young, completely Christian girl.

[Cain]

Nope. Satan's only purpose was to make Christianity look cool, like the way anarchists do with capitalism, or Bush with radical Islam. I don't even think of Graud as a devil, as he had his place in the scheme of things, misguided as it was.

[tears_of_ashes]

I believe Satan is a metaphorical word used nowadays to describe a humanoid empathic feeling of sin. Does that make sense?

[omar]

I was raised in a Christian home & taught that Satan was an evil bieng, But the word Satan means "advisary of God" & does not refer to any specific bieng like most christains believe. It means any bieng that is not in accord with the christian way. This is one of the reasons I became Pagan.too many christain falshoods.

[Shanti]

Of course he is real!!!
But not in my reality.
He is real in the people's reality that fear, worship, or carry the feelings of his existence in their hearts.

I dont feel this entity in my reality so for me he does not exist, but for others he sure does!

[Meabh23]

Satan is just and excuse.

The part of divinity we like to blame for all the crap we dislike about existence.

[LightDancer]

Yes I believe in Satan. He is the father of lies and the enemy of God and His people. I also believe a lot of Christians give him far to much power to Satan by blaming all of life's problems on him. Sometimes you really have to take responsiblity for your own actions.

Unpopular answer I'm sure but there you go, you asked after all....lol

Jamie

[Malcolm]

I think he or something like him is probably out there somewhere.

Gods can't all be sunshine and rainbows.

[xstarE_nitex]

I don't believe in satan.. I believe in balance... good and evil mixed together and all that jazz

[Fire's Shadow]

I believe in Satan. He's a damn good hockey player. Just ask Eldric.

[LightDancer]

I believe in Satan. He's a damn good hockey player. Just ask Eldric.

:yayah:

[Acid09]

I don't believe in a demonic kinda looking angel thingy presiding in hell anymore than I believe in a kinda gandolf, wizzard fellow playing god. I do believe in satan and god as a metaphor for human nature. Satan is human nature that we have been taught to repress (as Christians) and god is the side we have been taught to indulge in. I also think the two parellels can match just about any duelistic thinking.

[EmmaG]

I don't believe Satan is necessary - that humans create as much suffering as they need. Why do we need a supernatural creature to help us out?:awilly:

[Windsmith]

I'd be interested to know how many of the people who voted that they don't believe in Satan as an individual being don't believe in any deities at all. For instance, I believe in Satan but don't feel the need to have much to do with him, the same way I believe in Odin but don't have much need of him, either. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Christian who accords Satan deity status, but I view him as the trickster of Judeo-Christian mythology, much the same way Loki is the trickster of Norse mythology. If you don't believe in any gods, I understand your not believing in Satan. But I'm always fascinated by polytheists who with one breath claim to believe in "all gods" (whether or not they consider them part of "one god") and with the next swear that, not only do Pagans not worship Satan, they don't even believe in him.

[shuvanilu]

But I'm always fascinated by polytheists who with one breath claim to believe in "all gods" (whether or not they consider them part of "one god") and with the next swear that, not only do Pagans not worship Satan, they don't even believe in him.


I've always thought that was rediculous as well! I've seen many-a-pagan running around saying "All the gods exist and are integral parts of the Whole!--Oh, except any of the gods from the Judeo-Chrstian pantheon...those are fake!" Wha'?! That seriously drives me up the wall!:rant: ---shuvanilu

[Brandon Bee]

Yup, I believe in Satan as an actual being. However, I am not influenced by him one bit since I do not worship the God of the Christian religion.

[Janus109]

I don't believe in a source that's evil..so no I don't believe in Satan.

:fpartyfav

[Wazzamataz]

I believe that Satan is an evil being created by God with the purpose to test mankind and tempt them. However, I do not believe him to be a fallen angel- Isaiah 14 is misinterpreted: it is directed at the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezar (sp?). In it he is called "Lucifer", which means "Morning star".
This is because he was a good king who believed in God until he stopped and became an atheist. Isaiah says that he is 'fallen'.

One theory is that Satan was made on the sixth day of creation out of the darkness. I follow this theory.

[Rhisiart]

Did somebody call? Sorry Im late...I had a...thing.

[PoisonIvy]

So, do you believe in Satan?



I suppose so, after all, he believes in me.:cheers:

I don't actually think of him as an actual physical being but more of a kind of dark energy,if that makes any sense at all. He's the little voice inside that says "Go on.....ya know ya wanna,noone will see." IMHO
I suppose that I think of "the devil" as being the "Id" or the compulsive "Gimme,gimme,I need that now" side of us and God more like the "Super ego" or our conscience/restraint,if you will.

I could very well be wrong,but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

[TaysatWesir]

Yes I believe in Satan, I married him :lol: just joking its like PoisonIvy said a dark energy.

[Meabh23]

I thought that the Discordians fired Satan.

[Incendia]

Some people say I'm Satan...

[serenarian]

No, I don't believe the world is that black and white. I don't believe in the concepts of evil/things being unnatural. If they exist independently in the world and are not man-made, they're natural. It's people's viewpoints on things that colour them. Just my opinion. :)

[Vincent Verthaine]

I thought that the Discordians fired Satan.
The discordian Poly-father Malaclypse the Younger fired Yahweh.

I was the process server who handed Lucifer Baalzebub Satan Esq. his walking papers when Eris Kallisti Discordia Inc brought HELL Ltd. in a hostile takeover a few years back as chronicled in the Book of Eris.(my role was cut in editing).

Due to the fact that Deities operate at a different timerate then humans,the effects won't be known here until (classified).

[Garm]

The discordian Poly-father Malaclypse the Younger fired Yahweh.

I was the process server who handed Lucifer Baalzebub Satan Esq. his walking papers when Eris Kallisti Discordia Inc brought HELL Ltd. in a hostile takeover a few years back as chronicled in the Book of Eris.(my role was cut in editing).

Due to the fact that Deities operate at a different timerate then humans,the effects won't be known here until (classified).

The last I heard the whole operation was being outsourced to India

Story here,
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:I11UMoJlPJAJ:www.humorisdead.com/news/hell.html+Hell+Outsourced+To+India&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

If that link doesn't work for you go to
http://www.google.ca/search?hs=Y4O&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=Hell+Outsourced+To+India&btnG=Search&meta=
and click on the cached part of the first URL, the original site is no longer running the story

[Meabh23]

So Satan is still in charge of the Rock music industry?

[Vincent Verthaine]

So Satan is still in charge of the Rock music industry?
How else do you explain the Rolling Stones still touring.

[Meabh23]

The preservative effect of the chemicals they ingested for years?

[PeatBog]

Satan was fabricated to denigrate pagan gods like Cernunnos, the Green Knight, and Pan. Half of the Tao gets a bum rap nowadays.... nothing wrong with a little pandemonium now and then. :T I like Santa and reindeer. :reindeer:

[Sage Rainsong]

Actually I do. But I believe that Satan and Yahweh is more of a local God conflict rather than the universe being split into warring halves. Many Gods in mythology did not get along with each other.

[Rasenna]

Nah. But he believes in me.
LOL.
-R

[David19]

Actually I do. But I believe that Satan and Yahweh is more of a local God conflict rather than the universe being split into warring halves. Many Gods in mythology did not get along with each other.

That's exactly what i believe, i don't believe that Satan is the ruler of all 'evil', i think he's probably powerful but an enemy of Yahweh, like you said a local god conflict, my views on Satan are more like Diane Vera's on the Church of Azazel.

[Fire's Shadow]

The preservative effect of the chemicals they ingested for years?

Well, that would explain why Mick looks like a mummy.

[Vincent Verthaine]

Well, that would explain why Mick looks like a mummy.
Keith has enough chemicals in him to make him immortal.

[Little Billy]

Keith has enough chemicals in him to make him immortal.

The truly evil thing about heroin is that it might not kill you.

It might turn you into Keith Richards.

[arianrhods_daughter]

No I don't, that's just my opinion though

[Cain]

The truly evil thing about heroin is that it might not kill you.

It might turn you into Keith Richards.

But its a small price to pay in order to become indestructible. He's had so much heroin, I don't think anything can kill him now. Two things on this planet will survive a nuclear holocaust, cockroaches and Keith Richards:

"Whats happening? I saw a bright light, I thought we were on..."

[Darius]

Yes... I'm starting a practice in Demonolatry...

[Agaliha]

No, I don't believe in Satan. Never did.

I do belived everyone has the power to create evil and negativity-- and it is necessary for the complete cycle of things. As in there wouldn't be good without bad and creation without destruction.

On another note, Lucifer is not Satan. People always say he is...and he's not. I have sites bookmarked that talk about it too, if anyone cares.

[coeur]

Yes, but mostly in the Jewish sense.

I don't believe in Satan as an evil entity, but I believe that all named entities exist to a certain degree (like how Harry Potter exists to a certain degree). Satan, in my opinion, is not evil. Satan, in my opinion, works for God as a means of creating choice.

I think that we can all agree that free will is a good thing. God gives man free will by giving man choice. Without choice, man doesn't have free will because there's nothing to decide for anyway. Hence the problem of evil. It's not because Satan is evil and thus humans are influenced by Satan and thus evil. Satan is the guy who sits and reports your evil to God or tries to test you by means of providing temptation. However, the ultimate sinner is not Satan, but the human who falls for the trap.

[cartweel]

I like to look at LaVey's interpretation of Satan, but mostly as a thought exercise. I like to incorporate some aspects of that idea of Satan into my conception of the Wiccan God.

[zionwood]

I believe there is such a person as Satan. (not a human person tho.) and that he's evil. i think humans do get influenced by demons or Satan, but ultimately humans have to make their own decisions. (in other words, can't really say, "the devil made me do it.")

[Darius]

Satan is an actual being. He is my father, my lord. I serve him. He is also my friend, my closest ally.

[Vincent Verthaine]

Here's an interesting question I love asking the christian fundies:

"Can Satan repent,and what would happen if he did?".
What if the guy in the red pajamas,and the horns told the big bearded guy in the clouds:
"Hey,you were right,and i was wrong.I screwed up and I apologize".
I never could get a straight answer on that one.


Vincent Sebastian Verthaine

Knows that Satan is only a third rate demon with a very good PR firm representing him.

[celtica]

I believe Satan is just a term given to the parts of ourselves that lead us from attaining our higher selves. Such as a distraction (temptation) of things that keep us from doing the things that make us become better people. Addictions are an example - that which leads us astray and causes hardship and clouds our vision, wastes time and keeps us in a cycle of living in "the pit"

I think Satan is just a term that is that which blocks us from evolving in a positive way.

I do not believe in a mythical figure that is classically deemed as Satan.

However, I am torn on my last point in one regard. If all things in the universe are possible in the infinity in which it is, then why not? Also, could it possibly be what our minds create, that if it is believed it is made real? I do not know.

Satan as the mythical figure is not a part of my reality though. I do not accept the myth as true, not from fear but from not caring. I have more positive things to grasp after in my reality, I don't feel like living in fear of the afterlife.

Another concept of Satan that I think is true is the system of the modern world. To me it is a framework, a system that has us trapped. It is the evil that lurks behind the politics, the bigger scheme of greed and corporate power of wars to me. It could be considered the order of the world that enslaves not only us but all living beings that are experiencing life. It could be considered the system of being tracked or microchipped and a policing of the world in a political system.

There's a lot of possibilities that fall within this realm of negativity, the end of the spectrum some may call evil or the opposite of love - fear. Ego can also be considered a "satan" to the spiritual self as it is a great shackle on the road to enlightenment.

A lot of people think Satan (the mythical figure) does things on earth or makes us do things - "the devil made me do it." I don't believe that, but I wonder sometimes about my belief that the mind is the gateway for the spirit to enter the world. For through our thoughts we create reality in the physical world. We build, we make, we destroy, we do things here on earth, in this physical world according to our thoughts. And I think our thoughts are the pathways through which the spiritual dimension enters the physical world, so if this be the case, then the negative, evil, things people do from their thoughts, is that from "satans realm"? in the spiritual world manifested here on earth.

Maybe the "essence of Satan" is manifest through the spirits of people but it is of their own volition I guess in what many may call demons - possibly considered the splitting of portions of "satanic essence" or evil, into the many. So maybe in the spirit realm we can tap into this essence just as we can the positive and "decide?" what to make manifest here in the physical realm and with the physical realm reflecting back to us those decisions and thus affecting the spiritual self.

Good and evil, it's quite a tall order.

[Autumn Clair]

Okay I've come across a few things today that have made me wonder how many people believe in Satan as in the arc-angel, the nemisis of God. As in an actual being that is ssomewhere in the recesses of hell

As you may know from my posts,I dont believe in a deity. My beliefs of God and Satan are more like:
a) God represents the good and beautiful things in nature
b) Satan represents the evil and unnatural things
I dont believe in either Satan or God as actual beings.
That's just a basic outline of my beliefs on it, I will expand further as this goes on.

Everyone's opinions and discussion are welcome, but the question is especially for those Christians on MW. I'm very interested in everyone's thoughts on this.

So, do you believe in Satan? If so, in what form?

This is an interesting poll! Well I believe in one GOD but I also believe that my one GOD is the some Higher Being or Beings GODS/GODDESSES everyone else believes in. One in the same.

However when your brought up to go to church then get older and find your own beliefs those church days haunt you with what you learned there and how it fits into your belief now.

I belief satan was an angel of my god my belief and now is cast out of the other world of everything good and enlightened.
You could call it hell but I prefer the underworld where he now is with everything evil that works against us. Do you go to heaven or hell no that's not my belief. I believe you go to a higher plane were depending on how you lived your life will tell what you do next reborn again, become an angelic being or have other tasks you might do. I think the under world is for those who truely go against the higher being.

[shuvanilu]

Here's an interesting question I love asking the christian fundies:

"Can Satan repent,and what would happen if he did?".
What if the guy in the red pajamas,and the horns told the big bearded guy in the clouds:
"Hey,you were right,and i was wrong.I screwed up and I apologize".
I never could get a straight answer on that one.


Vincent Sebastian Verthaine

Knows that Satan is only a third rate demon with a very good PR firm representing him.


LOL---When I first married my hubby, 10 years ago, he decided he wanted to start going to church. I said I would go with him. So one day, we're in Sunday school (about 3 weekd into his church stint), and hubby asks this very question! The teacher said, "Well, Satan wouldn't appologize..." Us: "But what *if* he did? If God is all loving and forgiving, should he welcome Satan home?" Teacher wouldn't hear of it. We wouldn't let the question die. Teacher got angry. We left. The rest is history.---shuvanilu

[Garm]

Here's an interesting question I love asking the christian fundies:

"Can Satan repent,and what would happen if he did?".
What if the guy in the red pajamas,and the horns told the big bearded guy in the clouds:
"Hey,you were right,and i was wrong.I screwed up and I apologize".
I never could get a straight answer on that one.


Vincent Sebastian Verthaine

Knows that Satan is only a third rate demon with a very good PR firm representing him.


The awnser is in fact yez

if your an yezidi

[Little Billy]

Satan is just another lie of "Bob".

[Jolixte]

LB is Satan but only on sundays.

[Little Billy]

LB is Satan but only on sundays.

Yeah, and then I'm always tired on Monday morning.

LB,
Can tell you that it isn't easy, having a good time.

[Crysiira]

This isn't a simple yes/no question, really. And to everyone who says "no" simply because Satan has no part in the pagan belief system, why are you so quick to discredit the entire idea when you can take up beliefs in other culture's gods/demons?
Anyway, my specific belief is that there is no absolutes in this world, of good or bad. Spirits and entities exist, and when we call out to them and name them as gods/demons, they answer simply because they can, and some of them enjoy it very much. I consider myself very much a Wiccan, but when it comes down to it, when I call out to the Goddess and God, somewhere in the back of my mind I imagine that the spirit who answers was not always the Goddess or God, but has taken on those qualities as man gave them to it. I don't know if I believe that the Goddess created the earth and everything around us, or even prodded us along in the evolution process. I would like to believe this, but I still wonder. I think because I'm still developing in my path, I have a lot of strange, abstract ideas like this. I haven't settled for one thing yet.
Anyway, my belief in god-figures is of course going to affect my belief in satan-figures. Satan may exist, but not as the source of all evil, nor as the Christian God's main adversary. It could be simply a spirit that has taken on the satan-like qualities that man has assigned to him. Then again, it may not be just one spirit, it could be many answering the call of man, both in the cases of God and Satan.
And now that i've confused myself to all hell, I'm going off to devour a few theology books. :awilly:

[Little Billy]

Anyway, my specific belief is that there is no absolutes in this world, of good or bad. Spirits and entities exist, and when we call out to them and name them as gods/demons, they answer simply because they can, and some of them enjoy it very much.

It's all fun and games until one of them eats your face.

[AkashaW]

I voted "I believe in Satan in another way" And here's my explanation.

1) Satan is a real thoughtform to many Christians - and thoughtforms take on a reality all their own.

2) I believe in the existence of a very old God who the Christians have corrupted into their Satan. I have actually had contact with this very old God, and He is greatly saddened that He has been so maligned.

[debnmike]

I believe Satan exists...........he's my ex-husband

[Ninjakitten]

I believe Satan exists...........he's my ex-husband


And I believe in Hell. I'm an apartment cleaner in a college town :D

[CleftOfLight]

I believe in Satan as the accuser and tester for GOd.Another words he tests us to see if we humans truly believe in GOd or if we are just going through the motions.One way he tests us is by putting ungodly ideas in our minds,or try to get us to lie,steal,cheat,murder,rape so on and so forth.
That is the Job of Satan.

As far as Satan repenting one must first believe he was cast out of heaven and into hell.Even still Satan still does the work God created Satan to do,which is to test people.Can Satan repent? Of course Satan could.What would happen? He would be forgiving and enter back into paradise.The problem is that satan dislikes humans because God places us higher than the angels,that is what Satan did not like.Why should satan a being of pure light bow down to worship mere dust.

[debnmike]

And I believe in Hell. I'm an apartment cleaner in a college town :D

Oh crap that cracked me up!

[Autumn-Forest]

The concept of God and Satan totally escapes me. :) I think they are just ways of scaring people into believing a certain way.

[Birdy]

No, I don't believe in Satan. More importantly, I don't think being superstitious about human evil has or will help us to understand or prevent it one bit. Plus, blaming this Satan character for ones evil doing can be a substitute for taking responsibility and thats not a good thing.

[WiccanGoddess]

Satan is a Christian entity. I am further from Christian than a Jew. ;)

[Wolfpoet]

Satan is a Christian entity. I am further from Christian than a Jew. ;)

Considering the fact that Christians, jews and Muslims are essentialy the same religion, that's a pretty daft statement.

Sure their are some fundamental theological disputes but all three worship the same God, just ina different way. makes the fact they have spent the last thousand years killing each other rather amusing.

[Twinkle]

Considering the fact that Christians, jews and Muslims are essentialy the same religion, that's a pretty daft statement.

Sure their are some fundamental theological disputes but all three worship the same God, just ina different way. makes the fact they have spent the last thousand years killing each other rather amusing.


I'm not sure that you're correct on that statement, Wolfpoet.



They are not the same religion on how they feel about God....Christians believe that Jesus is also God....hence the Trinity.

Jews don't believe that Jesus was a manifestation of God...just a prophet.

I believe that Muslims feel the same way....

So...they don't really worship the same "God"

To answer the original question: Satan is a Christian Concept...since I am not Christian....I don't believe in Satan.

[Novembers River]

Considering the fact that Christians, jews and Muslims are essentialy the same religion, that's a pretty daft statement.

Sure their are some fundamental theological disputes but all three worship the same God, just ina different way. makes the fact they have spent the last thousand years killing each other rather amusing.

Tell Christians, Jews, and Muslims that and see what kind of reaction you get.

[Twinkle]

Tell Christians, Jews, and Muslims that and see what kind of reaction you get.


That was my thought...but I wasn't sure if I expressed what I was trying to say well enough.

[covenofkeys]

to believe in satan, one must believe in god-do i?
er-no. lol

[exodustruth]

to believe in satan, one must believe in god-do i?
er-no. lol

Exactly. I believe that we are all gods and devils. We can create or destroy. The world is ours to do as we wish whether for good or for evil..

[WiccanGoddess]

Considering the fact that Christians, jews and Muslims are essentialy the same religion, that's a pretty daft statement.

Whoa, nelly. Christianity, Judaism, and the Muslim faith are as different as night and day.


Sure their are some fundamental theological disputes but all three worship the same God, just ina different way. makes the fact they have spent the last thousand years killing each other rather amusing.

Jews worship the entity of Jesus, Christians worship God, and Muslims worship Allah, all different dieties.

That's like saying all Pagans worship the same Goddess, when in turn, they do not. They worship different Gods and Goddesses. The names are there for a reason: To separate the many from the few.

[WiccanGoddess]

Tell Christians, Jews, and Muslims that and see what kind of reaction you get.

Well, I told my Christian roommate that and my Jewish grandmother...got some strange looks from the both of them.

[covenofkeys]

lol- i'll bet!

[omar]

Whoa, nelly. Christianity, Judaism, and the Muslim faith are as different as night and day.



Jews worship the entity of Jesus, Christians worship God, and Muslims worship Allah, all different dieties.

That's like saying all Pagans worship the same Goddess, when in turn, they do not. They worship different Gods and Goddesses. The names are there for a reason: To separate the many from the few.

The Jews never worshiped Jesus,they killed him. The Jews have three gods Jahova, Yawah there war god & Elohim- Father of all gods, which in Arabic is called Allah.

[covenofkeys]

and Jesus was a Jew...

[covenofkeys]

i sort of agree, exodustruth....i think i understand what you are saying,though.

[Layla]

My reply was "no".

[~Owl~]

to believe in satan, one must believe in god-do i?
er-no. lol

I was waiting to see who would come up with this answer before I posted it.

Ditto for me.

You have to believe in the Christian Myth, just like the Greek Myths, Roman, etc, in order to believe that their Saints, Gods, and Devils have any influence on your life.

I DO believe there are opposing forces in Nature, Light and Dark, Night and Day, Good and Evil. Somehow both balance the other.

Sad as it is, just look around you. It's everywhere. And it CAN and DOES influence you, even if it's a minor thing as a debate turning into a flame war here...

'Feather~

[covenofkeys]

heh heh, but if i had to choose, i know which one i would ''worship'' !:yayah::fpraise:

[Mesektet]

Evil yes, personified in Satan? no...

[ravenhecate999]

symbolic of the dark side of human nature. we have a tendency to have to put a name and a face to things we can explain. bad things happen, and there are bad people. why? dont know. thats why they blame it on satan.

[Rhisiart]

I just love satan! Especially satan sheets! They are to DIE for! Why, I'd go to hell and back for satan sheets...really I would!

[Rachel]

I don't believe in any one, external force that's responsible or the cause of evil. I think that everyone as a human is capable of evil or bad things-- we just tend to explain it away by placing the blame on some other external force. ("I was tempted." "I was forced." "I was possessed.") There's no scapegoat. We all have to take personal responsibility for the choices we make, and own the fact that we also have the strength to do amazing things. We’re not inherently weak enough to be tempted or forced.

[Autumn Moonsong]

I believe Satan is an Energy we have created in this time and place. He/It may not have existed as Satan before, but I do believe that it/he does now. I know that is kind of strange, but I believe that our beliefs create and that we have -- maybe not us in particular, but mankind -- created this being in some form of energy that does influence the world of matter and spirit.

[Mainedruid]

no... i dont

[Tanya]

no...

[Xirian]

I do not personally believe in the character known as Satan, but I believe that others do. :)

[Glory]

Well, I know Tony Robbins exists, so does that count?

Kidding.

Anyway, I don't believe in a being named Satan. Never met the guy, never saw evidence of his work. And hey, being the fence-sitting agnostic that I am, I'm open to the possibility of his existence, as I am open to any religious concept... but right now? No.

[Eternal Night]

I don't believe in Satan as an actual being, but I do believe us as humans have satan in us.
We all have the power within us to be evil, it's just how well we control it.
But it's not all about evil. I think Satan is also manipulating things to your advantage. If it wrongs someone else in the process so wot? you've got what you wanted. That to me is are little bit of Satan inside us!
I'm sorry if that doesn't makes sense I'm tired! lol!

[Rudas Starblaze]

voted for the "i believe in him in a different way."

i mean come on. this isnt the the movie "practical magic" if he dont exsist, then neither do the rest of the deities.

witchcraft has nothing to do with religion folks.

[Rainbow]

I don't deny the existence of any deity, even an allegedly all-evil one.

[Stormbeard]

No.

Puhleeze

[Nox_Mortus]

witchcraft has nothing to do with religion folks.

I would say that depends on ones religion, because to some religions, witchcraft is a key component.

On topic, I don't think