Carla O'Harris
May 12th, 2005, 02:59 PM
One of the most intriguing chapters in "Triumph of the Moon" is Chapter 15, "Old Craft, New Craft" where Hutton explores the possibility of pre- or non- Gardnerian covens and traditions. Needless to say, he mainly answers his examples in the negative, but the examples he raises are very, very intriguing.
I am curious whether anyone out there has additional information on the examples he raises.
He lists :
1. An East Anglian group who sat in a circle in robes holding hands and concentrating. It was led by a Lord an a Lady. There were about 36 individuals. They honored a god and a goddess, with an emphasis on the latter. "There was a heavy emphasis on silent meditation". (Hutton, "Triumph", p. 289.)
2. A "West Country Wicca" as reported by Rhiannon Ryall, where children were taught by Elder women, where the moon was drawn down by fertile women, where initiation into a second degree included sexual intercourse, where the horned god and Green Lady were worshipped, and where naming and wedding ceremonies were practiced. (Ibid, p. 301.) Hutton admits that "Spells, stories and recipes printed in her book can indeed be found in the records or present practices of the area" but adds "but not anything of the religion to which she attaches them." (As if esoteric interpretations of exoteric symbols would be out in the open.)
3. An Alderley Edge coven as described by one 'Bob' that had the sacred circle and quarters, a moon goddess and horned god, a female and male leader, a ritual kiss, and a Eucharistic cake. (p. 302)
4. John P. William's Mon 'Old Religion' which met at prehistoric megaliths, wells, and lakes, offering leaves and other natural things in baskets, and celebrated a great festival in January on the full moon. They were led by women and feared as witches by neighbors. Its god was identified as Gwydion, with three divine sons, and had some sort of tradition of ley lines. (Ibid, p. 303.) Hutton admits that "there was much in the picture of this religion which seemed authentically old". (Ibid.) Hutton tries to take issue with Gwydion as a survival of an old god, using this claim against itself in an illogical manner. He then cites Anne Ross and Gwyn Thomas as arguing for the authenticity of John P. William's claims. (I would like to hear their sides!!) He also is able to produce a witness who had heard of this group while growing up there. Of course Hutton tries to take this away too by revealing that this witness "thought" that it was merely a 20th century product of Welsh nationalism ; Hutton does not explore the idea that renewed cultural nationalism could indeed have fueled the coming out of groups that had remained underground, nor that during times of creative ferment older groups might take fresh infusions of material into their genuinely older practices.
5. A Sussex Downs group that "did not so much worship deities as honour the forces of the earth (called 'Her' or 'the Mother') and the sky (called 'Him'). Its main purpose was to work magic, using chants and trance states. There was no high priestess or high priest, although one woman was the most influential member, and each person took a leading role in rotation, personifying an animal associated with the season of the rite. The admission ceremony consisted of a symbolic rebirth, the laying-on of hands and the giving of words, and a scourging." (Ibid, p. 308.)
(These are not the only groups Hutton mentions in this chapter but they are the most interesting to me.)
If anyone has any information on these groups or groups like them, I would be very, very interested to hear about them. If anyone has access to alternative documentation about them, I would love to be pointed in that direction as well.
There is also the tradition cited by Jani-Farrell Roberts in her book "The Seven Days of My Creation" and also available at her website, http://www.macha.free-online.co.uk/7day-extracts/Margaret-Murray.html :
"Despite the theories of academics that all pagan religions died out in the UK, there are also recent accounts of a surviving pagan religiosity or religion in parts of the British countryside. The beliefs of some in the Pennine valleys are recorded in Twilight of the Celtic Gods -David Clarke with Andy Roberts, It quoted a local, Blandford, as claiming: 'I come from a very old tradition if the learning passed down through the families is to be believed, my maternal grandmother was responsible for passing on the teachings ...I was slowly eased into the fundamental belief of our tradition, that the land is sacred. And to that end we thought of ourselves as stewards, guardians of the areas where our family dwelt., Many ordinary countryfolk knew of our knowledge of plants and animals and certain members of our family would help them... this just seemed to be accepted and expected' "... we revere, and stand in awe of, the powers that create and sustain us and the world ...To us being alive and part of the body of the mother was worship for us.. The powers that we held in awe were locked inside the landscape, inherent in the power of the weather and manifest in the changing of the seasons and in the end they in turn ran through us. It was nothing complicated, nothing supernatural, and to me at least, the way people are supposed to live... The fells were seen as places of the goddess and the high moors, rocky scars and peaks such as the Beacon were the places of the male power. The core of the old faith was the constant coming together of these two, whether it be in the creation of human or animal life"
Blandford did not call himself a witch. He thought the word meant something quite different to his own practice. He wrote: "I've never met a witch and from what I've heard about them I am not sure I want to. I know some old books on the Dales refer to some local characters as being witches... but they were not witches; if anything the label 'wise woman' or 'wise man' was more strictly true." But members of the Craft that I have come to know and love could have written what he described above. Names such as witch, wise woman and saint may describe the same person seen through the eyes of different people. "
This tradition, to summarize :
1. Held the land as sacred and themselves as stewards.
2. Held a male and female divinity inherent in the landscape in different places.
This strikes me as a deep religious sensibility and very authentic.
Does anyone have anything to add about these traditions or ones similar?
I am curious whether anyone out there has additional information on the examples he raises.
He lists :
1. An East Anglian group who sat in a circle in robes holding hands and concentrating. It was led by a Lord an a Lady. There were about 36 individuals. They honored a god and a goddess, with an emphasis on the latter. "There was a heavy emphasis on silent meditation". (Hutton, "Triumph", p. 289.)
2. A "West Country Wicca" as reported by Rhiannon Ryall, where children were taught by Elder women, where the moon was drawn down by fertile women, where initiation into a second degree included sexual intercourse, where the horned god and Green Lady were worshipped, and where naming and wedding ceremonies were practiced. (Ibid, p. 301.) Hutton admits that "Spells, stories and recipes printed in her book can indeed be found in the records or present practices of the area" but adds "but not anything of the religion to which she attaches them." (As if esoteric interpretations of exoteric symbols would be out in the open.)
3. An Alderley Edge coven as described by one 'Bob' that had the sacred circle and quarters, a moon goddess and horned god, a female and male leader, a ritual kiss, and a Eucharistic cake. (p. 302)
4. John P. William's Mon 'Old Religion' which met at prehistoric megaliths, wells, and lakes, offering leaves and other natural things in baskets, and celebrated a great festival in January on the full moon. They were led by women and feared as witches by neighbors. Its god was identified as Gwydion, with three divine sons, and had some sort of tradition of ley lines. (Ibid, p. 303.) Hutton admits that "there was much in the picture of this religion which seemed authentically old". (Ibid.) Hutton tries to take issue with Gwydion as a survival of an old god, using this claim against itself in an illogical manner. He then cites Anne Ross and Gwyn Thomas as arguing for the authenticity of John P. William's claims. (I would like to hear their sides!!) He also is able to produce a witness who had heard of this group while growing up there. Of course Hutton tries to take this away too by revealing that this witness "thought" that it was merely a 20th century product of Welsh nationalism ; Hutton does not explore the idea that renewed cultural nationalism could indeed have fueled the coming out of groups that had remained underground, nor that during times of creative ferment older groups might take fresh infusions of material into their genuinely older practices.
5. A Sussex Downs group that "did not so much worship deities as honour the forces of the earth (called 'Her' or 'the Mother') and the sky (called 'Him'). Its main purpose was to work magic, using chants and trance states. There was no high priestess or high priest, although one woman was the most influential member, and each person took a leading role in rotation, personifying an animal associated with the season of the rite. The admission ceremony consisted of a symbolic rebirth, the laying-on of hands and the giving of words, and a scourging." (Ibid, p. 308.)
(These are not the only groups Hutton mentions in this chapter but they are the most interesting to me.)
If anyone has any information on these groups or groups like them, I would be very, very interested to hear about them. If anyone has access to alternative documentation about them, I would love to be pointed in that direction as well.
There is also the tradition cited by Jani-Farrell Roberts in her book "The Seven Days of My Creation" and also available at her website, http://www.macha.free-online.co.uk/7day-extracts/Margaret-Murray.html :
"Despite the theories of academics that all pagan religions died out in the UK, there are also recent accounts of a surviving pagan religiosity or religion in parts of the British countryside. The beliefs of some in the Pennine valleys are recorded in Twilight of the Celtic Gods -David Clarke with Andy Roberts, It quoted a local, Blandford, as claiming: 'I come from a very old tradition if the learning passed down through the families is to be believed, my maternal grandmother was responsible for passing on the teachings ...I was slowly eased into the fundamental belief of our tradition, that the land is sacred. And to that end we thought of ourselves as stewards, guardians of the areas where our family dwelt., Many ordinary countryfolk knew of our knowledge of plants and animals and certain members of our family would help them... this just seemed to be accepted and expected' "... we revere, and stand in awe of, the powers that create and sustain us and the world ...To us being alive and part of the body of the mother was worship for us.. The powers that we held in awe were locked inside the landscape, inherent in the power of the weather and manifest in the changing of the seasons and in the end they in turn ran through us. It was nothing complicated, nothing supernatural, and to me at least, the way people are supposed to live... The fells were seen as places of the goddess and the high moors, rocky scars and peaks such as the Beacon were the places of the male power. The core of the old faith was the constant coming together of these two, whether it be in the creation of human or animal life"
Blandford did not call himself a witch. He thought the word meant something quite different to his own practice. He wrote: "I've never met a witch and from what I've heard about them I am not sure I want to. I know some old books on the Dales refer to some local characters as being witches... but they were not witches; if anything the label 'wise woman' or 'wise man' was more strictly true." But members of the Craft that I have come to know and love could have written what he described above. Names such as witch, wise woman and saint may describe the same person seen through the eyes of different people. "
This tradition, to summarize :
1. Held the land as sacred and themselves as stewards.
2. Held a male and female divinity inherent in the landscape in different places.
This strikes me as a deep religious sensibility and very authentic.
Does anyone have anything to add about these traditions or ones similar?