My Views On Christianity

[MistOfTheSea86]

Before you read just to warn, this is not and will not be a bashing thread. I am here just to explain what I feel about this religion and nothing more, so I would like to expect the same from all those who wish to share. Because I would like others to share what they feel in one thread, I think it would be interesting and much more simple to have it all in one thread... Now that that is said my views...

Pros: The religion itself is one that I can and do admire, teaching happiness and love. Teaching to be generous and kind to the less fortunate and not to judge. But what I really love about this religion is it's ability to bring people together. I have noticed that in Church, people are so unified and so happy because they are all so close to their god, and they can feel the divine prescence of the holy and the acceptance of those around them. It is being loved by everyone and the feeling is so momentous and beautiful that it just makes you feel so alive and at ease. I also enjoy the idea of Jesus, what he taught and what he still teaches today among those who actually read and research what he teaches. He was a beautiful man and taught happiness and brought people together under god. He made people happy and let them know that there was something more, and although I do not believe in the god he worshipped and spread. I love the fact that he made people happy and spread happiness. Being happy is one of the major factors of a good life. And I say whomever wishes to spread happiness. Do so whatever god you may teach it, just so long as you don't shove it down others throats. Which Jesus never did:) Christianity is a great religion that teaches happiness and I can not argue it's merit as a spreader.

Cons: Hypocrisy, this for me is a major reason I do not follow Christianity. For every great passage there seems to be one that condradicts it in some manner. I can not explain why either... It just seems that the bible was written by 12 old men basing a religion off their opinions of how the world should be, backed up with a few good words of god. Because if you see, quite a few times, the word of god is not what makes people angry. It is the words that seem as if they were opinion. This is coming from someone who has not read the bible mind you, but from what I have read. The words from God were fine, but many others seemed like opinions. And those opinions were the roots of their hipocrisy. If you were to talk out all opinion, then the bible would be a beautiful book.

Now I have been lectured many times about how I bash Christianity and it is the truth. I have not been very conscious to the fact that I may be offending some by making such a radical genelerazation about their faith, but I have not been bashing the religion. I have stateing opinion with anger. Which is also not right. So I took the time to look more deep and see the root of which my anger subsided and have found that it not be with the religion itself which I hold a grudge. But the people, who try to spread the word of god by completely disobeying every law he set forth to them... Forcing the bible into their lives with the fear of damnation, and at point of sword or burning at the stake. The people who waltz around feeling they have the divine wisdom and right to be the absolute ruler in religion, these are the people that I yell at. The people I call fools and ignorant for their irrational generelazations about everything besides what they believe. These people seriously need to be sat down and taught everything they are so against, to be educated about the things that they constantly damn to hell in the name of god. Who is to say that they have the right to speak any word of god? They are nothing but those hypocritical fools who give christianity a bad name. After constant research on the morals and ethics of christianity I have came to the conclusion that it is not the religion that I despise. But the people who pervert it to fit their own selfish means.

I have met plenty of wonderful Christians who are the most kind and loving people I would hope to meet.... The people who I would gladly follow into the gates of heaven. These are the people I call the "True Christians" The Christians that, although may not agree with what others worship, do not discount it's merit. Because they very well may be right, and they very well may be wrong. They accept that fact, and walk together hand in hand with those of different faiths, because in the end it does not matter what you worship. As long as you are good at heart and were happy in what you believed in. These are the Christians that follow the true word of God and Jesus in my opinion... And the people, if God were up there, would sit them next to him and embrace them with love and generousity.

I fear God has been Misshown in millions of ways as a horrible tyrant or a bigoted Diety who only permits those radical, ignorant pieces of crap like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson. God, in my eyes, is not like that at all. When I think of God, I think of a great tall man. With an enormous beard with a booming laugh that strikes happiness into everyone. Hee hee, with kind of a pot belly and a meat stick in one hand, and a great gigantic staff in another. Walking around spreading happiness wherever he goes:) Yes that is how I view God, not as a diety. But as a beautiful loving spirit who only wants people to be happy. Like the Buddha or Jesus:)

Although I do not follow the word of Christ or believe in a heaven and a hell. I do believe in a loving spirit who only wants to spread happiness to people. And nowadays, that beautiful message he wanted to spread has gone bad... And people have been horrible things in his name. Am I the only one who can see him screaming out in pain along with Gaea when we trash this beautiful world and do horrible things? It's sad really...

I feel that in the endm if you believed in God or Goddess, it wouldn't really matter because it is what is in your heart that counts. And if you are happy then you will advance to true happiness. But if you go on and only have hate... Then you bring yourself to your own hell. Just live a life of happiness I say and whatever you believe will come, will come. Just so long as you have faith:)

Myself as a pagan, does believe in a hell. But not the firey, brimstone that has come to pass with the opinions of a few men. But the hell that you create for yourself as you live and go through all your lives... If you create a hell then you live in it. But if you create a heaven, then you will be happy. It all comes down to us really and what we create for ourselves.

Now that you are here I must thank you for reading this incredibly confusing, incoherent rant. Goddess knows I was confused half the time. But I must thank you for taking the time to get this far:) I hope that I made some sense:)

As well I must also say I am open to any criticism as long as it is constructive... And I also must put up an apology if anyone finds this offensive. It was not at all my intention. Please bring it my attention if so. Again thank you for reading, and have a wonderful beautful day:) God and Goddess bless you on any path you choose:)

Your Friend,

[Myst]

Originally posted by MistOfTheSea86
So I took the time to look more deep and see the root of which my anger subsided and have found that it not be with the religion itself which I hold a grudge.

I think this is the most important part of your post. The fault lies not in the religion, but in the misinterpretations and misuse of it by certain people. I have read the Bible and taken the time to consider its true meanings - ie. this whole "thou shalt not worship false Gods" - maybe it means don't worship money or greed, or don't worship other people, or even that God in the Bible is meant to represent All (meaning you cannot worship false Gods, since he is All Gods in one). I'm not going to into all the specifics; it would take too long.

Further, it should be recognized that the Bible was written by men, not God himself.

There are those of all denominations who pervert beliefs to their own means. Certainly we have all met our share of Pagans and Atheists, etc. who have done so. I can think of a few right off the bat who force the Rede or Golden Rule, etc. on others, while not holding themselves to the same standards. Even if they do hold themselves to those standards NO ONE has the right to expect everyone to live by their morals. Judging an entire religion by the actions of some who claim to practice it is ridiculous - it's like saying that the view people who use "being Pagan" as an excuse to sacrifice cats represent all Pagans. No.

Ok, that's my rambled thoughts.

I hope this thread can continue to be interesting and thought provoking instead of ignorant and against MW rules.

[MistOfTheSea86]

Originally posted by Myst


I think this is the most important part of your post. The fault lies not in the religion, but in the misinterpretations and misuse of it by certain people. I have read the Bible and taken the time to consider its true meanings - ie. this whole "thou shalt not worship false Gods" - maybe it means don't worship money or greed, or don't worship other people, or even that God in the Bible is meant to represent All (meaning you cannot worship false Gods, since he is All Gods in one). I'm not going to into all the specifics; it would take too long.

Further, it should be recognized that the Bible was written by men, not God himself.

There are those of all denominations who pervert beliefs to their own means. Certainly we have all met our share of Pagans and Atheists, etc. who have done so. I can think of a few right off the bat who force the Rede or Golden Rule, etc. on others, while not holding themselves to the same standards. Even if they do hold themselves to those standards NO ONE has the right to expect everyone to live by their morals. Judging an entire religion by the actions of some who claim to practice it is ridiculous - it's like saying that the view people who use "being Pagan" as an excuse to sacrifice cats represent all Pagans. No.

Ok, that's my rambled thoughts.

I hope this thread can continue to be interesting and thought provoking instead of ignorant and against MW rules.

Very well put Myst:) Exactly what I think as well:) Many times people try to spread what they feel as the gospel truth and it angers me, very much. Why can't people just be happy with who they are instead of trying to make everyone else like them??? *Sighs*

I think everyone can be and will be mature enough to share their views without breaking the rules. I have seen such great integrity on this board and I know that we can be it to good use:)

[Sequoia]

WONDERFUL!!

I love the points you made, and I agree with them completely. It is not God, nor the religion. . . . but really, the people who have twisted it to do what they wish.

I remember a time when I was what I like to call "a rabid Christian." I was a bible-thumping little kid running around calling everything else "false" because that's what I had been taught at church. . . . I am SO embarrased at some of my ancient history reports from that time period. . . .


I still have a working relationship with god, so to speak. I acknowlage him as "one of the guys" . . . all the gods exist, to me. All equal. I still talk to him. I always had trouble beliveing that Jesus was a deity. . . but I definately think he was a great man. I mean, the things he was trying to share! wonderful! peace and love and tolerance and acceptance. . . . wonderful wonderful things

So kudos, to you, Mist.

[bansidhe]

hehehe, i know the feelign puma hime! i grew up in northern ireland going to church four times a week, because i lived with a delightfully strict presbyterian grandma. i ve read the bible a few times, both as a christian and a celtic pagan, and i think its a really great book, which has a lot of good points to convey, just like the religion. and i can confess that when i read my bible each night in bed, as a child, i used to laugh at the 'thou shalt not worship false gods' commandment, for i took it literally and i thought 'yeah right' but now look at me! :) funny how life works out like that.
i go to a christina skool (not out of choice) and ive encountered a fair bit of...discrimination...for want of a better word...due to my beliefs. which saddens me, because i really like christianity as a religion, and i still follow some of the commandments within my life, and they do tie in with my personal code of honour, such as not stealing, murdering, i try not to be jealous, and the like. but i also have adopted some points of other religions that ive tried out. for example, i agree with the buddhist view of not getting drunk - alcohol isnt necessarily a bad thing, but it can make you do things youll regret and hurt people, etc. kind of like how any religion can be if you misuse it.
i dont shove my beliefs down peoples throats, but if they ask me about it, sure, i take time out and explain things to them. i do this because many people count me as a satanist, just because theyre miseducated. my parents still call me a satanist. in the census, im down as a druid. thats why i explain things. i believe that the main reason i get crap is because people are scared of the unknown, so i figure that if they know, they wont be scared = less crap. its only doing a small part, but there you go! :)
and i agree, jesus was a beautiful man, and many of his teachings are something that this scared world is crying out for right now, but in the right spirit.
i think ive gone off thread now, but there you go, its vented now! :) and im sorry if anyone takes offence to what ive written, it comes from the heart, and scream at me if you want! :)
take care and brightest blessings,
bans. :bubbles:

[Keron]

check out www.theonion.com. Kind of offending to Christians, but v. humorous. :) Liked the one where Jesus converetd to Islam.

[Keron]

Okay, so it wasn't exactly relevant, but hey! It was related in an indirect sort of way.

[Aengus McTeague]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
WONDERFUL!!



I still have a working relationship with god, so to speak. I acknowlage him as "one of the guys" . . . all the gods exist, to me. All equal. I still talk to him. I always had trouble beliveing that Jesus was a deity. . . but I definately think he was a great man. I mean, the things he was trying to share! wonderful! peace and love and tolerance and acceptance. . . . wonderful wonderful things

So kudos, to you, Mist.

I've often wished that there was a religion known as "Jesusianity", where the focus would be on the incredible things that the man taught, instead of the claims that were made about him after his death.

I really don't think that Jesus would approve much of the religion that sprang up in his name. (hope this doesn't cross the "bashing line")

[Danustouch]

ummmmmm..which article were you referring to? I didn't find a subject heading that at all said anything about christians and muslims. Just a big article on Rush Limbaugh.

[Danustouch]

Nope Aengus..I don't think what you said qualifies as Bashing. You are stating your opinion..and I'm sure you don't mean..."ALL" Christians. Just the ones who pervert the teachings of Jesus. :)

[Avena]

Originally posted by Danustouch
ummmmmm..which article were you referring to? I didn't find a subject heading that at all said anything about christians and muslims. Just a big article on Rush Limbaugh.

Didn't find the article about converting Jesus either, but here's one about the Christian God and one of his commandments...

http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/god_clarifies_dont_kill.html

[Keron]

Ah! That "God angrily clarifies Don't kill rule is very deep! :p Here, to find a whole list of articles, just click on the Religion section in News Archives. A veritable wealth of such informative and insightful pieces there. Yeah right. :rolleyes: :)

[Da Witch]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
WONDERFUL!!

It is not God, nor the religion. . . . but really, the people who have twisted it to do what they wish.



That says it all in a nutshell for me. It's some of the followers whom cause me to not only dislike, but disbelieve in the Christian/Catholic religion.

[mol]

Originally posted by Aengus McTeague


I've often wished that there was a religion known as "Jesusianity", where the focus would be on the incredible things that the man taught, instead of the claims that were made about him after his death.

I really don't think that Jesus would approve much of the religion that sprang up in his name. (hope this doesn't cross the "bashing line")

*applause*

Kudos my friend. I, too, admire and respect the teachings of Jesus. If only the teachings were the main focus and not everything else. I will say this, though. You say you wish there was a religion known as Jesusianity and I say there is one. Looks like it is inside your heart. Maybe you should look a bit deeper.

[Swanspirit]

most of what purports to be modern christianity as such, but rather PAULISM........ because so much of what was passed down came more from "paul" than from what is supposed to have been from jesus......
IF he ever existed.......... I think it would rock the christian world to realise that their real and walking god is more of mythic proportions than a living reality .... but this is my opinion......
Love and Light
Swannie

[EasternPriest]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
most of what purports to be modern christianity as such, but rather PAULISM........ because so much of what was passed down came more from "paul" than from what is supposed to have been from jesus......
IF he ever existed.......... I think it would rock the christian world to realise that their real and walking god is more of mythic proportions than a living reality .... but this is my opinion......
Love and Light
Swannie

Saul/Paul certainly was one of the more prolific New Testament writers, but that doesn't makes the religion "Paulism."

Jesus existing is a historical fact that has been well researched and substantiated. Whether or not He was Son of God is a matter of faith. The fact that a rabbi named Jesus of Nazareth walked this earth about 2000 years ago is reality, not opinion.

[Danustouch]

But swan..the sources you quoted, those saying that a Historical Jesus did not exist, are most obviosly biased. They even call themselves skeptics, and label their books..."why I'm not a Christian". What about the research from the OTHER side of the argument?

[Swanspirit]

he is not the author of the article.........
the quotes are there to exemplify the question......... the sources are many and varied......... and religious tolerance.org has a history of being one of the most UNBIASED sites in existence.........please scroll down to see who the author is......
Love and Light
Swannie

[Myst]

I look forward to a response from EP, for the other side of the story. :)

[Danustouch]

Yeah, EP...give us some research here! Your homework assighnment of the day! :)

[Myst]

Well I see only one side represented - that he did not exist - therefore I'm waiting to see the other side. I'm sure EP has something to contribute and look forward to his logging on.

[MistOfTheSea86]

Jesus did exist didn't he? In almost every country's history, Jesus existed and walked all over europe, and I thought evidence clearly stated that he did. I agree with Myst that the arguement IS one sided, and we should have both views instead of believing one to be the gospel truth.

[bansidhe]

i personally reckon jesus existed, im sure theres historical evidence out there...theres bound to be. doesnt mean hes the incarnate son of god of course, but still...

[Danustouch]

Swan...I did the research..in College at Eastern Nazarene College, as a Youth Ministry major. That was long ago, and far away, and I do not have the books anymore....But...I did read compelling evidence that he as a man, and as a Rabbi/Activist DID exist. If I felt confident that my memory served me well enough to provide these resources to you, I would most assuredly, provide them. But, as I said. I lack the resources now. EP, on the otherhand, I'm sure has plenty of resources about this at his disposal.

You cannot believe everything you read on the internet. Not even if it all comes from a reputable writer. Reputable writers have opinions too. As do all authors. So the idea is to get as many resources as possible, and cross reference all of the research you find, Until you make an informed conclusion. I will wait for someone who has far more tools at his disposal for this information than I, and then weigh all of the information presented. But thanks, anyway :)

[Swanspirit]

Celestial Harmonic



If you read the article ........

and the arguments FOR the existence of jesus...... you will see that
this article presents the opposing opinions ...... against most of the
"factual evidence" that is presented
that argues for his existence......
most of the arguments FOR his existence are contained in the article
and refuted.........
AND I certainly would not expect ANYONE with any intelligence to base their opinion of something like the existence of a founder of a religion on sometihng they read on the internet..... I have done much research and reading over many years my self......in order to come to my conclusion .... which is that a group of people existed ....none of whom EVER would have assumed the role of savior that was put upon "him" by a savior seeking populace.
the Religious Tolerance site was the fairest and most unbiased one I could find .....
Love and Light
Swannie

[airmist]

Good Discussion,I really enjoy signing on and finding all of you on some interesting topic--I hope EP does have something to add.

I always was of the opinion that Jesus was a real person based upon the references to him in Roman historical writings. And I still give that a lot of weight, but I hadn't ever seen them challenged either.

Thanks Swannie for the reference to that site; it does seem really good. I will spend some time there.

[Myst]

Originally posted by Swanspirit
most of the arguments FOR his existence are contained in the article and refuted.........

Yes and my point, and that of others evidently, is that that still mirrors only one opinion - the arguments for are brought up and refuted. What about the arguments AGAINST being refuted, and the arguments FOR explained? *THAT* is the other side of the story.

[Laiste]

My personal view on Christianity. I was, and considered myself Christian...Episcopalian to be exact for the first 27 or so years of my life. I like to refer to the Episcopalian sect as "the lighter side of Catholisism"!:p the reson for this is in the church I grew up in things were "different" then they were at my friends churches. I attended many services at Catholic churches with my friend as a teenager...we loved the idea of the "quickie" 1/2 hour service to get our parents off our backs about going. I also visited some Baptist churches. The first thing I noticed about the Catholic church was the solemn feeling...few people in the church seemed to be enjoying themselves. It seemed to me to be a downer...real boring service...people only seemed to go because they "had too"!! My experiences at the Baptist churches were quite the opposite...people singing loudly, clapping, joyously praising thier God!! Now back to my church...In between Catholic and Baptist...not so dreary...yet no one ever got too exited either! No one would ever dare to jump up and yell "praise the Lord"!!

My whole point in telling you my experiences was so you can see the different sides of my view. Now as far as the Episopalian religion I can say, from my experience, that they are an accepting group...there are openly gay members of the church, single mothers and many sorts of others who would be ridiculed and not accepted at so many other christian churches.

This is what I dont like about the majority of Christian religions...it's thier intolerance...thier refusal to accept others for what they are!! For their extremely closed minded points of view and thier Holier than thou attitudes! That's IMHO!

Now as far as everyone arguing over Jesus' existance...I'm not even going there except to say that...by saying he dosen't exist..IMHO you are bashing someone's belief!:(

[Myst]

IMHO

I was raised without religion but celebrating Christian holidays, then I became Christian for awhile, now I'm Pagan. Sometimes I work with Christ and Mary as God and Goddess; I really like Aoumiel's work with Catholicism AND Paganism in her Green Witchcraft series. I believe Jesus existed and I believe he did some wonderful things. I feel some beliefs surrounding that are wonderful. I don't believe people should use them as an excuse to hate and murder, but that's the people screwing up, not the religion. If people were to really sit and think about the real teachings of God I think they would have a better understanding.

[Laiste]

Originally posted by Myst
IMHO

I was raised without religion but celebrating Christian holidays, then I became Christian for awhile, now I'm Pagan. Sometimes I work with Christ and Mary as God and Goddess; I really like Aoumiel's work with Catholicism AND Paganism in her Green Witchcraft series. I believe Jesus existed and I believe he did some wonderful things. I feel some beliefs surrounding that are wonderful. I don't believe people should use them as an excuse to hate and murder, but that's the people screwing up, not the religion. If people were to really sit and think about the real teachings of God I think they would have a better understanding.

Well said, Myst!! It is quite sad when the written word is twisted by the sick minds of individuals who want to use them to their own advantage!! I guess I really need to purchase the rest of the Green Withcraft series!! And I can't wait to show my Aunt who is always bashing and questioning my beliefs! I'm interested to know how you, personally, incorporate Christ and Mary into your beliefs...I think I would enjoy doing that, especially concidering my backround!

Also, patiently awaiting EP's further views on the topic!!

[Myst]

Basically it means just speaking to your deities as Mary and Jesus, etc. I've been trying to find some more information but alas the 'net, when you search for Catholic Christian Pagan Wicca comes up with pages and pages of Christian sites bashing Pagans and Pagan sites bashing Christians. I'm sure someone will have some links and I'm still looking. Personally I'm both surprised and disgusted by the latter - it was my understanding that Pagans were openminded and accepting of others, at the same time they asked the same from those of other religions. My interpretation of course, but I'm really just disappointed in how many Pagans will say "no you can't believe in Jesus/Mary/Yahweh etc. and be Pagan!"

[Xander67]

I think the best book I could ever have read was by Dr Joseph Campbell it was titled, the power of myth... It showed an overview of the different religions of the world and how they are alike...yet how they differ...

the one thing That I disagree with is when someone imposes thier beilfs on another, and there are some religions that do that...even though there are laws in the usa protecting my rights to believe as my heart feels... there are just some people that I dont discuss spiritual things with because they are very set in thier ways and I know that they would not respect my beliefs...
intollerance is alive and well in the 21st century

for anyone to say that if you belive in christ you are not pagan, first of all NO ONE has the authority or the right to tell anyone they are or not anything...and no one has the right to use scare tactics (IE, you are going to burn in hell if you dont get saved) to try and convert anyone, (sadly this happens)

In a perfect world, everyone is free to believe as they choose,
and let us not forget, this crap that is going on overseas is rooted in a religious dispute...

[aluokaloo]

No I see what you are saying because I'm just starting to realize the same thing, I used to sometimes get downright nasty and rude with some christians just because they were and badmouth them too, it was pounded in my head time and time again thats its not the faith its the people, and lately it has finally started to hit home. I have known a lot of good christians who will help you because to them they are doing the work of there God. Sometimes I'll admit I get just like they do, and rant and rave and bash them. I still have many disagreements on what they do, but I've been getting over it lately in the last few months. I'll never step on that particular path again, since I'm happy with my faith. But I should try to understand a little bit more I think.

[SamStrom]

Does it really matter if Yeshua existed? I honestly believe that it is a moot point. Even as an Ideogram of the ideal man, many would still aspire to and place faith in the Christ Jesus. My only gripe with the religion is the claim on the monopolization of truth. 'I am the way the truth and the life' and other exclusivity clauses dappled throughout the work. Truth exists for whomever seeks to claim it. Moreso than this I am concerned by the basic method by which Christianity gains new members. Convince someone they should feel shame, then tell them if they wish to be rid of their self imposed shame they need but to convert and they can live happily ever after. But I would say this only now, for who am I to presume I will think the same tomorrow.

Now as an institution the Church is quite enjoyable to watch. Now when I speak of the church I generally mean Catholisism, because they are by far the oldest sect still dominant to this day, but in most of my comments about the church the statements are still applicable to the modern sects. Apply where applicable. The proverb 'If you do not like it, wait a millenia and it will change' applies dramatically to the church. The church is facing a complication of temporality. No longer are the same leaders at her helm, she is no longer the bastion of society either. When the church ceased to be the be all and end all of western society, something changed. This self inflicted wound has forever changed the world. The church provided the framework for the rebuilding of society. The recurrence of society caused a massive upswing in population. Which ultimately lead to its own decline. It is easy to convince everyone in a small group of something, but the more people the greater the likelyhood of dissent.

For all intents and purposes the church has served my cause well for centuries. Its lack of self control and internal hipocracy has made it one of the prime forces of social upheaval in the past millenium. It pulled humanity out of the 'dark' ages, it gave us the crusades, the burnings, its divisive nature even afflicted itself causing the rising of Protestantism. They fight disorder with the sword and thusly as in a dusty room with a broom, only succeed in filling the air with it. The church is an institution that forever change humanity, in both good ways and bad, but as the Romans they are finding their own decline. But I would say this only now, for who am I to presume I will think the same tomorrow.