Dream Interpreatation: Class Two

[cydira]

Here's a quick outline of what we'll be discussing this class. I'll be using the same format as last time, posting information in segments and encouraging questions. If this looks like it is a problem for you to follow, let me know. I"ll be happy to make adjustments, this is your class.

Part one: A quick over view of psychology and the different schools of thought.

Part two: The Behaviorist perspective.

Part three: The non-behaviorist perspective.

Part four: Freud and Jung

That's the whole thing in a nutshell. :)

[Silver Venus]

Sounds great Cydira :D Cant wait ~ when does it start? ;)

[cydira]

I'm going to be a bit delayed in posting the first section of this class. I'm caught in the middle of midterm exams and working on a few huge papers. :p I'll be posting by next tuesday at the latest. That's October 29th!

Thanks for your patience folks. :D

[Faery-Wings]

Cool! I am looking forward to the classes. Now if I could just wake myself up enough to write in my dream journal...

Good luck with your exams.

BB

Chris

[Silver Venus]

No worries hun! Good luck with your papers and exams! :)

[cydira]

Now, at long last, the much awaited second part of the course. :) I apologize for this being so late, midterms and an ill roomate kinda delayed me. But I'm back and I'm posting a little more this time. It's a 2 for 1 night. ;)

Overview of Psychology

There are three major schools of psychology, each with different perspectives on dreams. The biological school of psychology argues that the mind and all of it's functions are a result of the neurochemistry and electrochemistry of the brain. These are the people that would compare the brain to an elaborate computer and are probably going to be the first ones to come close to AI, in my opinion.

The behavorist school of thought states that the brain's dreaming serves an evolutionary function and little more. There's heated debate as to what exactly this function is and unfortunately I know very little about this. The cognitive school of psychology is one that we're more familiar with. This is the school of thought that argues that the brain and mind are not the same thing, unlike the other two schools of thought. This school of thought also argues that the more "mental" aspects of the brain, like emotion and thought, are not purely a result of the electrochemical processes of the brain. Unfortunately, in this dicipline also, there is an intense debate as to the nature of the mind vs the brain and their relationship.

The behavorist and the biological schools are both quite closely related in their approach. Both of these schools place little importance on the cognitive aspects of dreams. The bilogical school of thought argues that dreams are how the brain interprets random stimuli that it recieves during the night ( ie: passing traffic, a thunderstorm, wind, etc.). The behaviorist school takes a simmilar perspective, stating the same thing but adding one more element.

The behaviorist school of psychology argues that dreams are not only the result of random stimuli and the brain's attempts to interpret them during the night, but also the brains attempt to incorporate the information in some kind of logical fashion. As a result, a dream seems to have some kind of cohesion and logical order (sort of). The cognitive school of thought is very different from the behaviorist or biolgical school.

The cognitive perspective is some what esoteric in their approach to the questions of dreams and their meanings. This dicipline of psychology states that dreams have three possible meanings. The first possible meaning is quite close to the behaviorist approach: dreams are "cognitive file management." In this approach, dreams are the mind's way of reinterpreting the day's events and the incoming stimuli of the sleeper's environment.

The second approach is that the dream is a mode of communication between the "unconscious self" and the "conscious self". This particular methodlogy has become immensely popular and as a result, there is a plethora of dream dictionaries on the market to tell you how to intepret your dreams by the archetypal meanings of the images, like a golf ball. This method is argued by some scholars to be a result of Freud and Jung's dream interpretation practices.

The third perspective taken by the cognitive school of thought is that dreams are a combination of the "cognitive file management" and the communication between the conscious and unconscious selves. As a direct result, a blend of interpretation methods from these two perspectives is used here. I personally think that this third perspective has more potential for being accurate then the others. The third perspective we'll discuss a little later, but I will be spending a little time on the second approach of the cognitive school. I think that the first cognitive perspective, the behaviorist, and the biological perspectives are all fairly self evident.

The aspects of the second cognitive approach that I will be presenting next are actually going to be in relation to Freudian and Jungian analysis. And don't ya'll worry, I'll be giving you a whirlwind tour of the Freudian and Jungian analysis methods and explaining a few of their terms for those who're probably scratching their heads and saying "Freud who?" right now. ;)

[cydira]

Freudian and Jungian Dream Analysis

Sigmund Freud's method of analysis maintained that dreams and their content revealed the unconscious motivations and thoughts of the dreamer. Much of his work influenced the work of Carl Gustave Jung and the entire field of psychoanalysis. A full discussion of Freud's theories and methods would takes us quite far away from dream analysis, but I will give a brief version so that y'all don't get too lost when I start talking about Jung.

Freud argued that the mind had three major parts. These parts were called the Id, the Ego, and the Superego. The Id is associated with the unconscious and the primal desieres and drives. Freud argued that the sexual drives were the strongest of the drives encapsulated by the Id. The Ego is associated with a person's sense of self. This is almost childlike in it's description, capeable of motion, action and communication but it has no concept of morals or proper behavior. The Superego is our consciousness and it is the part of the psyche that Freud argued was responcible for higher brain function and memory.

In Freudian dream analysis, there is a strong focus on unresolved sexual tensions and neurosises of the dreamer. As a result, Freud interpreted many of the dreams of his patients as indications of his famous Oedipus or Electra complex. At one point in time, Freud interpreted a man's dream about going to a store and then walking into his house by a hidden stairwell with his maid as a suppressed desire for an affair with his maid involving anal intercourse. To say the least, Freud gave nearly every image or action in a dream some kind of sexual association.

It is this heavily sexual focus that caused the final split between Jung and Freud. Jung, who was once a friend and collegue of Freud's, was something of a mystic and when Freud decryed Jung's beliefs there was a minor division between the two of them. When Freud persisted in his sexual interpretations, Jung left Freud's dicipline and developed his own method of dream analysis. Jung retained much of Freud's map of the psyche, adding in more about personality types and the combinations of these types.

Jung developed the some what ignored concept of the unconscious mind from Freud's theories and he argued the existance of the collective unconscious. Freud called the sleeping mind the subconscious mind, where Jung called it the personal unconscious. The collective unconscious was deeper beneath the personal unconcious and was where the "racial" memories and the archtypes were argued to reside. Freud called this part of the mind the unconcious and treated it much like a reservoir for the tensions of the ID where Jung developed the idea that this was where the whole of humanity was linked on some level.

Jung, at one point, is said to have argued that the archetypes were the building blocks of communication because these archetypes seem to remain somewhat unchanged between cultures. The major benefit of Jung's work, actually, was the identification of the symbolic language of the sleeping mind. The archetypes are semi-universal symbols for abstract thoughtforms and concepts that are common through out the human species. A simple example of this is the image of a pregnant woman indicating the concept of motherhood.

We will be discussing archetypes in the next section. First, please see the next two assignments. This time, I'd like a little participation in this becuase I'd like to see who is working with the exercizes and also because I think it will be interesting for you to try this little hands on project. :)

[cydira]

Here's another assignment coming at ya. This one, however, involves less writing and actuall technique for remembering your dreams. I think I hear a cheer in the distance, but I'm not sure right now. :D

Part one:

This is the first of two aids for your dream recall. As many of you may have discovered, dream recall is somewhat difficult and many of you may feel fustraited because it seems like you just don't dream. Have no fear, you are dreaming you just need a few tools to help you remember.

This is a form of classical behavior modification and it's simple and painless. This is called operant conditioning and if you'd like me to explain it, I'll be happy to in the questions thread that I started because it doesn't related quite directly to this. As you fall asleep, you are going to train yourself to remember your dreams by telling reciting untill you fall asleep "I will remember my dreams."

After a point, you will stop reciting, don't force yourself to keep reciting it, this is your body's way of letting you know that you're falling asleep. Just keep the thought in your mind as you fall asleep after that point. I have found that it takes roughly a week for this process to take noticiable effect, but when it does, it is highly effective.
Part two:

This is the second method of dream recall and it does involve a little writing. This is highly effective when you can remember only parts of a dream, like a single image. When writing down your dream, try to write down as much of your dream as soon as you wake. if you're unable to, it just makes this process take a little longer. Write down as many details to the dream and stop when the dream recall becomes difficult. Set the journal aside and return to it after a few minutes. Re-read the dream and fill in the details that you recall as you're reading. You'll find this works a lot better then just forcing the issue. Just remember to leave at least one blank page between your dreams and don't forget to date them. ;)

[cydira]

Assignment number four

This is a little reaserch assignment. You are going to be helping me with my next little post. :) Go to your search engine of choice or any other reaserch source that you find suits your tastes best. When there, look up the following terms:

Carl Gustave Jung
Archetypes
Dream Analysis

What I would like for you to do is find at least 1 Jungian archetype and post a short description of it's meaning.

Good hunting and have fun with it all. I think you're going to enjoy this little project. ;)

[Silver Venus]

Cydria this looks great!! :boing: thanks so much for posting this up and sharing we all really appreciate the time and effort!!
When I have a little more time (hopefully tomorrow) I will read all through and get on with the assignments :) :D

[Faery-Wings]

Yes, me too. I printed this out and when (if :D) I get a quiet minute I am going to read through it very carefully. I have been having some wild dreams lately, but I still can't seem to get myself up in the middle of the night to write them down, dammit! LOL!

Chris

[cydira]

Take all the time you need. The little assignments are optional and I'm actually going to be posting the beginnings of a list of Jungian archetypes when I do my next section. I just figure if I make things a little hands on, it might help some with the learning process and show that some of these things really do work. :D

Aside from that, I'm going to probably be silent for a few days after the 20th because of Thanksgiving break. I'm warning y'all before hand this way I'm not just disappereing on ya like I did before. :) :shift: :T

[Swanspirit]

YOU ARE DOING A great JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I dont think I have seen short course in dreamwork this accurate and concise in any "dreambook" I have read thus far, with perhaps the exception of ONE......and I have read many. you really should keep it and expand on it a bit for publishing and if you need an artist let me know ...........
I am not sure how far you intend to go with the Jungian Dream analysis...... and my " MAN AND HIS SYMBOLS " by Carl Jung is at least twenty years old and well worn ......
and I studied with a Jungain PhD AbD years ago to interpret a series of "Chinese dreams " have you done anything with dream mapping??
As far an Archtype ........ahhhhhh there are somany wonderful ones ... but I shall choose the ROYAL COUPLE ....... because it is one of the symbolic images of psychic totality of the self......
To dream of a couple .. a man and woman together is a deep and ancient symbol of the uniting of those inner energies within.... and depending of course of the actions of that couple can be refelctive of the inner state of repose or conflict
[ let me just state at this point that to AVOID all VALUE judgements of dream symbols is part of learning about dreams because there is NO better or worse than ... and an inner psyche can be at peace one moment and in conflict the next ....as a part of growth to the next level ]
so to dream of a conflict might mean that the inner "male and female" are in process of resolution..... while to dream of a Royal Couple can be an archtype of a resolved conflict .
I also think that the Royal Couple as a dream symbol is an important symbol to pagans ... because the Dream of the Couple is a dream of psychological health .. and I think that RESTORING the "ROYAL COUPLE" as Deities is a sign that we are indeed progressing as a people, and recognising our inner reflection as containing the divine and not having OUTSIDE oneself as a separate entity ......is part of that progress.....
Thus the importance of the Archetype to the inner being as well as to the outer society.
Love and Light
Swannie

[Faery-Wings]

Cydira, great information :)!

I read through all of it and it made sense to me and all. I remember much of it from college (I have a degree in Psych- not that you can tell anymore:rolleyes: )

I am going to try the conditioning and journalling technique too. I have been remembering more of what i am dreaming- but mostly individual images and feelings, rather than the story line.

I have company coming over (ack- just pulled up) so i will work on the assignments this afternoon...


Chris

[Faery-Wings]

Some info on archetypes ( from the zodiac.com):

And archetype is an unseen energy force that shapes how we perceive reality. These archetypes are found in the collective unconscious. This is why certain patterns occur over many eras and in many cultures.

An archetype:

These are your basic figures from mythology and history. The archetype is a description of the way we see the soul, the essence of something or of ourselves. The shadow is one of them. The shadow is the "dark side" that we see in others- personified by the Devil by Christians, seen in the dislike of things dark- that a fair haired person is seen as "nicer" than a dark haired one- the black cat as bad luck, etc.. It is the darkness in ourselves, that most are uncomfortable with - and to deal with this, we collectively perceive this in others.

Other archetypes are anima/animus, the child, the self, and the The Syzygy .

This is from http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~davisct/nt/jung.html#Anima

Did I do ok, considering I have Dragon Tale's blasting in the backround and dinner defrosting in the sink? Gotta run!!

Chris

[cydira]

This is even better then I had hoped. I'm going to wait a little bit longer for a few more people to post, but in the not too distant future, I'll be posting the next section.

Aside from that, thanks for the compliments. I'm glad to hear that so many people are enjoying this and that it's helping.

If y'all want me to address more topics then I am right now, please tell me. :) I've a huge library near by and I'm not afraid to use it. :D

[Swanspirit]

where you can tell by WHERE sometihng occurs in a dream what part it plays in your psyche ..... and how it might be interpreted....as what was in the CENTER of the dream..... as related to what was on the periphery or what was in the upper parts or in a corner etc...... Love and Light
Swannie

[cydira]

Immediately after this post will be a list of the archetypes that everyone has found as well as a short list that I have gathered to present as well.

Jungian Archetypes & Dream Analysis

Carl Jung developed the concept of the collectve unconscious, deepening it beyond the aspects that Freud worked with and applied it to dream analysis. The archetypes are an integral part of Jungian dream analysis and also to Jungian psychology (a subject that is a little too far off the topic at the moment to really be discussed at this time). Jungian archetypes have been applied by many individuals who interpret mythology, arguing that these archetypes are some of the most applicable concepts for a broad based interpretation of the world's mythology.

Some might argue that mythology has little to do with dreams. In this respect, I beg to differ. Joseph Campbell is reputed to have stated at one point in time, "The dream is the personal myth and the myth is the collective dream." The symbols that Jung called his archetypes are visual and visceral symbols of various abstract concepts that people hold inhierent to their human experience. These concepts range widly from emotions to the concept of parentage, age, or change, to mention but a few.

Usually, an archetype in one culture will have a close parallel in another culture, representing the same basic concept. This can not only be seen in the comparitive mythologies of the cultures, but also in the dream symbols of two individuals who are from those cultures. In this context, I am including religion as an aspect of culture. With this in mind, a Wiccan who dreams of the Horned God and a Christian who dreams of Jesus can both be dealing with the same archetypal figure, but with a different cultural context. Occasionally, we may dream of mythic figures, these are also different contexts of the same archetypal figures that could be represented by religious iconography.

Jung's archetypes serves predominantly as a spring board for developing a personal list of dream figures and themes in the method of dream interpretation that I use. The next class will be devoted to dream techniques for building your personal list and also additional dream recall techniques.

[cydira]

List of Archetypes (partial)

Swanspirit

<minor editing for length>
The ROYAL COUPLE .......
[...] It is one of the symbolic images of psychic totality of the self......

To dream of a couple .. a man and woman together is a deep and ancient symbol of the uniting of those inner energies within.... and depending of course of the actions of that couple can be refelctive of the inner state of repose or conflict

[ let me just state at this point that to AVOID all VALUE judgements of dream symbols is part of learning about dreams because there is NO better or worse than ... and an inner psyche can be at peace one moment and in conflict the next ....as a part of growth to the next level ]

I agree with Swannie's suggestion here. Value judgements in dream analysis is not only impractical but also potentially misleading because *everything* in your dreams are a result of your own thoughts, psyche, and mental states. Precognitive and visionary dreams are of a special sort and I will be discussing them in a section devoted only to them.

so to dream of a conflict might mean that the inner "male and female" are in process of resolution..... while to dream of a Royal Couple can be an archtype of a resolved conflict .

I also think that the Royal Couple as a dream symbol is an important symbol to pagans ... because the Dream of the Couple is a dream of psychological health

<additional editing for length>

Chrissi1

Some info on archetypes ( from the zodiac.com):

And archetype is an unseen energy force that shapes how we perceive reality. These archetypes are found in the collective unconscious. This is why certain patterns occur over many eras and in many cultures.

An archetype:

These are your basic figures from mythology and history. The archetype is a description of the way we see the soul, the essence of something or of ourselves. The shadow is one of them. The shadow is the "dark side" that we see in others- personified by the Devil by Christians, seen in the dislike of things dark- that a fair haired person is seen as "nicer" than a dark haired one- the black cat as bad luck, etc.. It is the darkness in ourselves, that most are uncomfortable with - and to deal with this, we collectively perceive this in others.

Other archetypes are anima/animus, the child, the self, and the The Syzygy .

This is from http://www.acs.appstate.edu/~davisct/nt/jung.html#Anima

Cydira's partial list

These are very brief and quite basic. My intent with these is simply to provide a starting point for your reaserch, if you wish to continue your gathering of information about Jung's archetypes beyond what we have gathered here.

Horses - freedom, mobility
Fire- rapid change, strong emotions, stress/anxiety
Ocean (or other bodies of water)- [this is for calm waters] tranquiltiy, mystery, the feminine aspect
Mountians- challenges, difficulties, impediments, strength, blockages

[Silver Venus]

Thanks so much!! Its been a really interesting read and Ive learnt so much! Tonight hopefully I will have some interesting dreams and remeber the archetypes :)

Got two from http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/jung.html
Mother
The mother archetype is a particularly good example. All of our ancestors had mothers. We have evolved in an environment that included a mother or mother-substitute. We would never have survived without our connection with a nurturing-one during our times as helpless infants. It stands to reason that we are "built" in a way that reflects that evolutionary environment: We come into this world ready to want mother, to seek her, to recognize her, to deal with her.

So the mother archetype is our built-in ability to recognize a certain relationship, that of "mothering." Jung says that this is rather abstract, and we are likely to project the archetype out into the world and onto a particular person, usually our own mothers. Even when an archetype doesn't have a particular real person available, we tend to personify the archetype, that is, turn it into a mythological "story-book" character. This character symbolizes the archetype.

The mother archetype is symbolized by the primordial mother or "earth mother" of mythology, by Eve and Mary in western traditions, and by less personal symbols such as the church, the nation, a forest, or the ocean. According to Jung, someone whose own mother failed to satisfy the demands of the archetype may well be one that spends his or her life seeking comfort in the church, or in identification with "the motherland," or in meditating upon the figure of Mary, or in a life at sea.

:) Fits for me :)

Animal
An animal archetype, representing humanity's relationships with the animal world. The hero's faithful horse would be an example. Snakes are often symbolic of the animal archetype, and are thought to be particularly wise. Animals, after all, are more in touch with their natures than we are. Perhaps loyal little robots and reliable old spaceships -- the Falcon-- are also symbols of animal.

:) Ive been dreaming about my cats allot recently (Ive got two, a bro and sis 7 months old) all the dreams have been really nice and I do feel so connected with them both :)