Welsh Dieities?

[Dieithryn]

Hi everyone, I'm going to try and work something out here so I hope this makes some kind of sense (someone please tell me if it doesn't)

There seem to be two major branches of Welsh "Gods", the House of Don and the House of Llyr. I'm not sure why but I tend to see the House of Llyr as being more fairylike (sorry couldn't think of another word) than the House of Don. Also at least two (I can't remember about Mannawydyn) of Llyrs children die, imo "fairys" are mortal while Gods are not.

Unfortunately the only story in the Mabinogion that deals with the House of Don is Math ap Mathonwy which is really more of being the story of Arianhod and her son Lleu. Apart from this I have found very little about the sons and daughters of Don but there is no mention of death amongst them except for Arianhods other son Dylan whos death roar is said to be heard at the rocks of Conwy (even Lleu doesn't actually die even though his rival is told exactly how to kill him.)

The sories of Pwyll, Rhiannon and Pryderi I rationalise along these lines. The Otherworld is made up of seperate kingdoms (like the everyday world). Arawyn (who Pwyll becomes for a while in the first part of the Mabinogion) is Lord of one part of the Otherworld, Rhiannons father Hefeydd the Old rules another and Hafgan (who Pwyll has to defeat for Arawyn) rules yet another. Llyr himself has chosen to rule the oceans.

I'm not entirely sure why I see things this way and I'm posting this in the hope that someone else might be able to make sense of my ramblings. I am also trying to fit in people like Cerridwen who I have been drawn to as a Goddess figure but am now thinking was most probably a powerful witch and sorceress (OT I've been to the supposed birthplace of Taliesin, lovely lake and I have a pic somewhere of me by the plaque). How the heck am I supposed to rationalise my draw to Cerridwen as Goddess and my logical belief in her being a mortal witch?

Any ideas anyone?

Tangnefedd
Dieithryn

P.S. I hope this made some sense to someone. I'm not entirely sure it makes any to me lol

[ancestral_lee]

hiya Diethryn,

where abouts in wales do come from? im a fishguard boy myself.

just a short answer for now. something to think about, go back 2000 years and further and you will find evidence that it wasnt just that the natural forces such as the sea and earth were honoured but also the ancestors, go back to the bronze age and neolithic and ancestor worship seems to have been the main 'religion'. it seems that our ancestors saw the dead as hanging around and being called upon at certain ritual times. what you then develop out of this ancestor worship is a form of worship centered around the mightly dead, ancestors who are elevated to godlike status. in the mabinogion, the charatcers are not described as gods, they seem to be quite mortal yet have supernatural abilities (like rhiannon or gwydion), possibly this is because they were once mortal ancestors.

as someone who has a close-ish thing going on with cerridwen, i am fairly sure she was one mortal but has been elevated to goddesshood with time - who knows what she was once houred for, but now she has become like a sponge and has absorbed many qualities that probably werent hers in the first place but are certainly hers now. to me she is like a nana figure - very real, very caring and very powerful there when i need her.

dont get too hung up on the plentyn llyr dying, the stories we have are not all there is and who is to know what the full array of legends said.

other plaes to try looking are 'the cad godeeu', y 'trioedd ynys prydein'( triads of britain by rachel brpomwich) avoid too many internet sites as they will often have crap posted on them pertaining to be welsh legends and folklore, tyr sticking to more academc work toget a more impartial account of the legends and work on it from there.

pm me or email me of you want to chat on this some more, i could go on for years on this subject.

hwyl

lee

[Dieithryn]

Cheers Lee, will look for those books. I've just started reading Celtic Myths and Legends by Peter Beresford Ellis so hopefully I can get my mind back into gear. I lost all motivation for studying around Samhain last year so I need to get going again.

I'm glad that what I was saying made some sort of sense to someone. The fairy thing was the only way I could get around the idea of death but you're right, I'll try not to get too hung up on it.

I'm from Rhyl atm, not the best place, I would be much happier in the hills somewhere but thats not likely to happen soon.

Tangnefedd
Dieithryn