Wealth and the Pagan lack mentality...

[Atena]

I was recently in a circle where we had one person doing readings through vision quest for everyone else in the circle. During each person's reading you could ask any questions you wanted and so everyone did ask questions to get information on different matters to improve their lives, from jobs, to love to spiritual development.

Amongst these many questions, one person had also asked for guidance in finding the right lottery numbers.

Now, I have heard it said many times that you are not supposed to ask for financial gains, only for things that would improve our lives. As many times as I have heard it, I also have thought that a stable financial life is part of a well balanced, healthy life, and as a group, we need more wealthy pagans in our community.

Many people in the circle were shocked and appalled at the question. You are not supposed to ask for personal gain.

But when I think about it, why not - we do anyway.

Asking for a fulfilling love relationship is personal gain.
Asking for a job promotion is personal gain.
Asking to become more intuitive is personal gain.
Asking for a cleaner healthier earth is a personal gain.

Anything where you and anyone else that you are connected to benefit is personal gain.

Rich people hold more power than the poor... that is the way our society works today, it is not something we change (yet).

Plus, rich people can help all pagans be heard. They can purchase land to be preserved, or used in our gatherings where we would not be welcome elsewhere. We can help in politics funding causes that we beleive in.

Those who are more fortunate can use their wealth to teach others to be more fortunate, to help the one sho are still struggling financially, just as a spiritual mentor helps a new pupil develop their spiritual identity.

Also, you can't help others if you cannot help yourself first.

There is no creed that says thou shalt not be wealthy. As long as you are not hurting anyone, and just like magick, money is a power that can be used for good or evil... the choice is with the one holding the power, and most pagans chose to use their energy towards good rather than evil, that is a given fact considering the Wiccan Law, the Law of Karma, the rule of three, etc.

So, in view of all this, what is so wrong with working towards wealth, be it the lottery, a great job or other miracle?

I am interested in other pagan's opinion on the subject.

Atena :)

[Crystal Craft]

I agree with you. As long as your purpose is true ( positive). Some times it's all in how you word it.
MMand Blessings

[dr_zeus440]

the concept of humility and all the various vices that come with it are christian. not pagan. the only people with an excuse are the greek recons who (should) have to avoid hubris (if you consider yourself to be a greek recon in any way, shape or form and dont know what hubris is, then youre an eclectic wiccan). if you told a magic-user in the medieval period that using magic for personal gain was immoral, youd be laughed at (paraphrased from 4nongoths, i think). there is no situation were one does not come off better or worse, be it slightly or drastically. trying to avoid personal gain in magic is like trying to stay dry in a thunderstorm in the middle of the ocean. above all else, the value of humility and all the vices that come with it are a christian concept, a vestigial belief of the pagan community as it exists today. thats not to say that theyre bad, its just to say that theyre not pagan.

just my cold, hard two sense.

[Jenne]

So, in view of all this, what is so wrong with working towards wealth, be it the lottery, a great job or other miracle?



Nothing whatsoever. I say right on to the person who asked for more wealth--it's a real need for some people, and even beyond that, who are we to judge that? Ugh. ITA w/Dr.Z--we're not socialists, who need to be poor to feel righteousness or "equal" among our peers in wealth and standing. If we want to attain it (for whatever purpose--hopefully not bad), that's our deal.

Maybe those judging were jealous they hadn't thought to ask, lol. I don't know--seems a silly thing to get upset over--people on this board for one ask for energies for success and monetary benefit everyday. I think I do more money and success spells than anything lately myself.

*shrug* Virtue doesn't come in how small your bank balance is.

[Karma Chameleon]

I think people see wanting money as being greedy and then in turn see being greedy as bad. (It is one of the 7 deadly sins ;) ) it has to do with the culture many of us are rasied in.


Now my opinon is that of the Ferangi of Star Trek, "Greed is Good". Because I would say it's about wanting more out of life, and money is power, and what's so bad about having a lot of money and power?

I will post more later...but I got to run! :yikess:

[Aidron]

So, in view of all this, what is so wrong with working towards wealth, be it the lottery, a great job or other miracle?



I do not believe most consider it to in fact be wrong. In all actuality they most likely hold fast to this belief because A.) they absorb the beliefs of everyone else and are absolutely agreeable (i.e. sheep) or B.) they are too fearful to work for such magically as they the probability of failure is quite high. People are timid and easily frightened beings. That's all there is to it in the end.

However, those who believe one should not work toward personal gain lack proper awareness of the world around them since everything benefits us to some degree. One might claim they only use their magic to heal others and avoid this very recent (and it is) idea of 'personal gain', but in helping others you boost your own ego and thus just gained something. Fact is, real practitioners of magic worked have worked for personal gain and the gain of others for countless centuries and many are only now discarding that due to the new-age trend as of late.

I've certainly worked for great wealth and gotten it. I don't expect to win the lottery as I don't play the lottery and I couldn't bring myself to take a chance wasting money on the possibility that I might win, it seems absurd (and I have very little money to waste these days). Maybe some day if I have the luxury to waste a few dollars once a week on something like the lottery then I will no doubt back it up magically-after all it's even more likely that I'll fail if I don't and since I am confident in my skill as a practitioner not getting something I work for out of all the things I have gotten that I worked for will be no great loss to me.

[-Ember]

I think there is also a factor of us not often approaching asking for wealth the right way. Just like you get warnings about it not being a good idea to do the "make so and so fall in love with me" style love magic, money magic has its own forms that just tend to not work out well. In any magic it isn't wise to ask for something to appear for nothing. But that is precisely what the first urge with money magic is. And the result tends to be a monkey-paw style disaster. It tends to work better to approach it from annother direction... a job that pays better, more stable finances/lose some expenses, etc. But even there it tends to hit hard... if you have too large a morgage being forced to rent can solve it, if you declare bankrupcy you will get out from under some bills.....

I also think it is in part because money is so very earthy. To affect it directly requires a lot of real-world manifestation. And that makes it both hard to start and hard to fix if something goes wrong. It is easier and often works out better to approach it through something else that then manifests a material change.

[Gen]

the concept of humility and all the various vices that come with it are christian. not pagan. the only people with an excuse are the greek recons who (should) have to avoid hubris (if you consider yourself to be a greek recon in any way, shape or form and dont know what hubris is, then youre an eclectic wiccan)..

:T

Off-topic, but I have to say: I love the intellectual rigor that recons of any stripe bring to the table. I'm not one myself, but the pagan world would not be the same without recons. Great air energy.

[MorningDove030202]

IMHO:
I don't think it's wrong to ask for personal gain. In fact recently I've asked that I have "more than enough." However, If I was doing some special technique for channeling a divine being in a complecated ritual, I think I'd be offended if someone asked me/the divine for lottery numbers. Asking for generic prosperty is always ok, something that specific is just tacky. You don't meet the Dali Lama and ask him for lotery numbers, you don't go to a pagan ritual and ask God for lottery numbers. You don't send the Pope an email asking him for lottery numbers. LOL Am I making sence? If someone wants to ask God for lottery numbers they can do it themselves.

Dove

[Gen]

we're not socialists, who need to be poor to feel righteousness or "equal" among our peers in wealth and standing. If we want to attain it (for whatever purpose--hopefully not bad), that's our deal...*shrug* Virtue doesn't come in how small your bank balance is.

I agree with a lot of what you say here, but I do want to point out that a) you're not working with a very accurate definition of socialism, and b) some people here probably are socialists. I'm not one myself, but a lot of socialist ideas are valid and much-needed right now, at least in my country. They are poorly understood here and mixed up with a lot of Stalinist/Leninist revolutionary ideas (which are horrifically evil bunkum), but a little socialism mixed with your capitalism can really work wonders. See Social Security, your public library, the fire department, the weekend we're all currently enjoying -- these are all more or less socialist concepts.

That being said, of course there's nothing wrong with doing spellwork for money. There are heaps of books on prosperity magic and rightly so. As the original poster pointed out, there's this idea among some pagans that we must never use magic for "self-gain." As others have said here, that this is a Christian concept of virtue, not a pagan one.

Personally, I think that there is such a thing as having too much. If it were Donald Trump who asked how he could win the lottery, that would clearly have been grotesque. But that's up to each person's own awakening consciousness to decide, not anyone else.

[Darkdale]

People lack ambition. However, for those pagans that do value wealth for themselves and their families, then more power to them...hopefully they will take responsibility for gaining that wealth and not do anything so foolish as to play the lottery.

[Jenett]

As others have said, I think there's a difference between 'prosperity' or 'a satisfying job that fulfills my needs' and 'give me lottery numbers'. Part of that is that - especially in group settings - the focus works best if it's something that can work itself out in a variety of ways. Asking for something as specific as lottery numbers limits that pretty severely.

I also think that wealth isn't all it's cut out as. I know plenty of intelligent, well-educated Pagans, but many of them are working jobs which don't necessarily pay high wages. Sometimes that's because the job they have is deeply fulfilling for them in a number of ways, but not in terms of wages. (Pretty much anyone in pre-college education/teaching/library work, for example.)

Other times, it's because the jobs that *do* pay the high wages come with limitations or ethical issues that they feel aren't compatible with their Pagan lives. On the purely practical side, it's hard to make it to circle when you're working extremely long days, and most of Saturdays and Sundays (as many young lawyers and doctors do for at least some time. Ditto high-end financial folks.)

There's also the issue that not everyone knows how to manage wealth sensibly. I went to two schools (boarding school and college) where there were some *very* rich people. However, some families obviously handled it a lot more sensibly and thoughtfully than others. Handling investments responsibly isn't necessarily easy: finding good advisors, learning the intricacies of how investments work, what is protected and not protected by various laws, what the legal issues with running a property or making political donations are. It will not help 'our cause' if someone gets money and wastes it, or runs into legal trouble doing it.

If you want to help those causes, a more logical way to do it would be to do workings to encourage people to contribute to them. Do the work to get centers off the ground. Do work to find the finances to make them financially viable. That *might* mean someone winning the lottery and deciding to donate what they win. But it also might mean lots of people get involved, and lots of small donations are what makes it work.

That leaves more options open (and honestly, the small grass-roots campaign is likely to be more stable in the long run: lots of groups or projects, Pagan and not, fall apart if they're based around a single charsmatic or influential leader (because people die, lose interest, run out of money, etc.)

Money is also not the only way to influence people: I work in a private high school (with kids from a range of income levels, but a fair number who have wealthy or very upper-middle-class parents.) I don't make much myself, but I can have a lot of very gentle influence on the kids I talk to. (I work in the library). If I won the lottery on Wednesday, I could do some good stuff for the local Pagan community - but I'd probably influence *fewer* people who really needed to hear more about tolerance, critical thinking, questioning, learning how to research and think for themselves - through ads or massmedia or whatever other funds might help with, than I do most days showing up at work.

Money's a tool. It's just not the only tool, nor is it the best tool for everyone or every situation. If someone has shown they can actively use it for good, there are lots of ways they can do that. They don't need to involve asking for lottery numbers in a public ritual.

[Luminessence]

A lot of people focus on wealth instead of on spiritual matters, so then the spiritual people see wealth as opposed to spirituality. Also, I think the idea is prevalent that if you have money, somebody else won't. A lot of pagans - by no means all, but a lot of them - are the very giving type; they don't want to be selfish. They feel like if they ask for wealth for themselves, they'll be taking it away from people who need it. But focusing on yourself doesn't make you selfish; what makes you selfish is if you focus on yourself to the exclusion of everyone else. Suffering will not make you more spiritual.

That said, asking for lottery numbers seems like a rather impractical way to get money. I'd be more in favor of asking to get paid enough to live comfortably for doing something you love. It's more practical than winning the lottery, and probably more fulfilling in the long run - you get the money you need, and get to enrich the universe by doing... whatever you're gonna be doing (which by no means has to be a conventional job! Don't think I'm saying everybody has to have one of those, because I most certainly am not :)).

And incidentally, socialism has nothing to do with needing to feel poor. The assumotion that if you givce money to people who don't have enough then there won't be enough for everyone is, I think, an example of the lack mentality we've been talking about; it's the opposite of, "If I have it, somebody else can't." Instead, why can't there be enough for everybody?

[AmbivalentMirage]

I think that magic which calls things into our lives that are not already present or do not seem to be apparently on their way can be tricky. I have no moral opposition to asking for lottery numbers, but the consequences of this could be more than one realizes.

We think of karma as being this abstract concept, but it can be just as simple as a normal chain reaction. For instance, imagine that the person who asked for the numbers got them. They played the numbers and won a large sum of money. They'd never had this much money and did not know what to do with it. Although gambling had always seemed a bad idea in the past, when money was tight, it clearly had worked once, so why not try it again! The person "invests" a little but of their fortune into some gambling... and finds some more winnings. Following, they continue to do this until they have revealed something they never intended to reveal: an underlying propensity to become addicted to gambling. Likewise, a thousand other outcomes could happen - good AND bad.

If something, like money, love, or possessions, isn't in my life, I try to take inventory of myself and figure out why. Usually it's because my lifestyle and habits are pushing the things I desire away from me.

Like I said, though... I don't oppose this person's actions. Perhaps they had already consider the consequences and sought out what kind of a future might come if they asked for the numbers and maybe it was a wise choice for them. :)

[Atena]

Wow, thanks for all the opinions (and so fast!), I see that there is a wide range of thinking.

A very wise woman I know has once told me that anything worth knowing is worth asking for.

I see a general "theme" though that asking for money to come effortlessly is shallow or bad (for lack of another word). Many have used the words tacky and tasteless.

Is it generally assumed then, one should work hard for their money?

I must say though, at least you guys weren't appalled at the idea of asking for money. LOL

Honestly, I had questioned my own morals in this incident and that is why lead me to posting the question here. I suppose that I am looking for more ideas.

I was not offended at the question, but everyone else's reaction had led me to wonder if maybe I should have been.

I do believe the universe is abundant. And I do not see why we can not all have more than enough to live a completely fulfilled lives, financially and otherwise.

If my life is perfect in every other way but financial, I will ask any higher power I can to help fill this void.

I do believe we can all be wealthy, happy and prosperous in every way. We can all have happy fulfilling jobs (if we want to work) and ample time and money to play extravagantly. We can all be lottery winners if we so chose.

I agree, not all people who have lots of money have the capacity to handle it. I believe it is a matter of choices, and decisions. Some people I suppose would get in to legal trouble if they make the wrong choices, but you do not need money to make wrong choices, you can make those about anything.

I also agree that money is not the only way to rais public awareness and acceptance of pagans in general.

If we think of ourselves as children of the universe, (god/goddess, divinity, whatever name you give the source energy) then try to think of what you would want for your kids. I would want my children to live happy, fulfilling lives, where they can attain their dreams effortlessly and joyfully. I would not want my children to have to work hard for their money, spirituality or family life. I would want them to have the best of everything and value everything they have and enjoy life to the fullest.

I can only conclude that the universe, giving birth to humanity would want the same for all it's children. But we do have free will and lessons we chose to learn the hard way and all that mess that comes with living in the physical world. But the choice is still there.

Luminessence, I like what you have said and I do know that this person has a very fulfilling job they love, but it is not the type of job that will support the type of lifestyle they want. I also know they plan to continue doing it after winning because they love it so. Also, how you get the money is a personal choice and the lottery is just one of the many avenues being pursued in this case.

Ambi, I like the way you put it all nice and short (wich I could do that!)l. Looking for what is wrong in other areas is what lead them to ask for guidance in the first place. I should probably mention once more, they did not ask for the numbers, they asked for guidance in getting the goal (the jackpot) including clearing blockages and personal growth in other areas.

Anyway... I don't mean to rant. (that just comes naturally, heh heh).

I am enjoying reading about all this and would like to hear more and please do not understand anything I say as a personal attack or that I am trying topick onanyone. I just want to see this issue for myself from as many diferent points of view as I can.

Atena :)

PS. I should mention this was not a public ritual, it was a small, private full moon gathering. The vision quest was something that had spontaneously developed after the ritual during social talks and was not part of planned activities.

[Athena-Nadine]

the concept of humility and all the various vices that come with it are christian. not People. the only people with an excuse are the greek recons who (should) have to avoid hubris (if you consider yourself to be a greek recon in any way, shape or form and dont know what hubris is, then youre an eclectic wiccan). if you told a magic-user in the medieval period that using magic for personal gain was immoral, youd be laughed at (paraphrased from 4nongoths, i think). there is no situation were one does not come off better or worse, be it slightly or drastically. trying to avoid personal gain in magic is like trying to stay dry in a thunderstorm in the middle of the ocean. above all else, the value of humility and all the vices that come with it are a christian concept, a vestigial belief of the People community as it exists today. thats not to say that theyre bad, its just to say that theyre not People.

just my cold, hard two sense.

Hubris has nothing to do with not asking for anything out of a wish for personal gain. Hubris is putting oneself at the level of a god or even higher than. Hellenics ask for things for personal gain all the time. Unnecessary humilty and false modesty have no place in my religion or life. Hellenics are to strive to be the best they can be, for themselves, their community, and because striving for and reaching glory is pleasing to the gods. However, we are all only human and are never to forget that.

Financial gain is no worse a thing to ask the gods for than strength or courage. All are necessary for stability and security. Balance is necessary in all things. To focus on the spiritual to the exclusion of the material is just as skewed as ignoring the spiritual for the material. Personal gain is a fundamental necessity for all mortals. There is nothing wrong with being selfish. While we should never strive to deliberately gain at the expense of others, it is an inevitable fact of all life. Something must always die so something else can live.

[-Ember]

I see a general "theme" though that asking for money to come effortlessly is shallow or bad (for lack of another word). Many have used the words tacky and tasteless.

Is it generally assumed then, one should work hard for their money?


I think, in general, yes it should be. Not for ethics, not because it is "bad" money if you don't. Because if the work isn't there it isn't really integrated into the life. It doesn't have a place. Windfalls are great, and the chaos factor they bring allows for a lot of good (kicking things up a notch, breaking loose of something, etc)... but in general, as something to count on? I don't like it.

Again, back to money being a manifested thing... to me, work shapes it. Makes it fit. Integrates it. When it comes out of no-where full formed... How many people have done the Vegas trip and won just enough to cover the car repair for the breakdown on the way home? When just money appears, it seems to create need.

[9-2-2]

The Universe, being a non-moral entity, could give a damn if you asked for lottery #'s or worked your bum off into an early grave. When people apply morals and ethics and say "that's how life is, and that's how it will be for you, you, + you", then the trouble brews. We aren't here to stolidly follow rules of uprighteousness, rules that are MAN-MADE.

If I need $$$, I'll throw energy wherever I have to to get it. That doesn't mean I have to be nice to people's sense of ethics and all of that garbage... if they don't like spells and requests for such things, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO IT. :ringaroun

[Atena]

The Universe, being a non-moral entity, could give a damn if you asked for lottery #'s or worked your bum off into an early grave. When people apply morals and ethics and say "that's how life is, and that's how it will be for you, you, + you", then the trouble brews. We aren't here to stolidly follow rules of uprighteousness, rules that are MAN-MADE.

If I need $$$, I'll throw energy wherever I have to to get it. That doesn't mean I have to be nice to people's sense of ethics and all of that garbage... if they don't like spells and requests for such things, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO IT. :ringaroun

You make a very good point.

[Dusk]

Perhaps the problem isn't that the person is seeking finacial gain, but the method of financial gain that seems shocking.

On the surface, it smacks of getting something for nothing.

Note: I am not saying this is right or wrong. It's just an observation.

[SacredWithin]

I say it doesn't matter what you ask for as long as you have pure intentions and it's all for the better. Perhaps he wanted to be able t give to charities. (although there are many ways t do it besides money, but whatever)

[saffron]

So, in view of all this, what is so wrong with working towards wealth, be it the lottery, a great job or other miracle?

I am interested in other pagan's opinion on the subject.

Atena :)

I'm not even remotely opposed to the idea of the seeker seeking wealth, as long as the seeker recognizes how wealth will serve them and how it will *not*. Wealth isn't a substitute for happiness or emotional well-being. If you're looking to fill up a spiritual or emotional void with money, then money is just simply not going to do you any good - well, except for the keeping you fed and clothed part.

I think we should a)pay our teachers, b)charge for services rendered, and c)expect to have richly abundant lives. I don't see how any of that detracts from a healthy spiritual life.

Saffron

[Athena-Nadine]

I say it doesn't matter what you ask for as long as you have pure intentions and it's all for the better. Perhaps he wanted to be able t give to charities. (although there are many ways t do it besides money, but whatever)

What's to say that wanting wealth for yourself and nothing/no one else is not a "pure" intention or for the better?

What exactly is a pure intention and who gets to decide that it's pure?

[Gailara]

I say it doesn't matter what you ask for as long as you have pure intentions and it's all for the better. Perhaps he wanted to be able t give to charities. (although there are many ways t do it besides money, but whatever)
Or maybe he wanted to keep it for himself. Nothing wrong with wanting to be wealthy, in my opinion. Wanting to be wealthy isn't an impure intention.

Wealth isn't a substitute for happiniess, Saffron, but it sure helps to ease worries. It's a bit difficult for a lot of us to be 'happy' or place a lot of emphasis on emotional well being when you (proverbial you) can't even afford to eat.

[LittlePerson]

If you're already wealthy I just see that as greedy but if you are poor asking for wealth as a means to better yourself and your situation in life there is nothing wrong with it. I'd love to win the lottery to get a house and start a family, not because I already have that which I don't. It's people who just want another Jet or home or more vacations or whatever even though they already have that don't need to ask for wealth when they already have it. But people who want a home or want food for their families or money to have a baby or to get medical insurance that requires money and wealth could give them those things. Technically not all dreams are necessities but I see the "american dream" as one of them if you want that that is.

[semi]

I do ritual-like things to get money all the time, but it only works if I actually need it. I once needed a couple hundred dollars and that day I found $220 laying on the ground with no one near it. I needed to make copies of some important papers, but had no change with me and I was close to a deadline when I found the exact amount of change that I needed laying on the copy machine when I got to it. When I wanted to start my own business, several thousand dollars dropped into my lap from a very unexpected source. When I need money, it appears. Wanting money to appear is completely different. I don't need to win the lottery. I may want to, but I don't need to, so I probably won't. I don't want more than I need. For me, ritual and magic are tools to fulfill needs, not desires.

[-Ember]

I do ritual-like things to get money all the time, but it only works if I actually need it.

I've found the same thing... or that it creates a need if there wasn't one.

There is just one exception... I can always get credit card offers ;). Always after any sort of money working I get flooded with "you're preapproved, mr/mrs/ms (insert choice of mispelling of my name). I've decided this is the univese's way of saying that it isn't a need, but if I really want money.... I like to joke that it is pre-figured karma. If you want it, you can have it, but you'll pay it back three-fold.

[Darkdale]

On the surface, it smacks of getting something for nothing.

Of course it does and it is. Whenever I hear that someone is doing a spell for anything, I always encouage them to try to accomplish it with good old fashioned effort and determination first, then if that doesn't work, go ahead and try some magic, if you feel that works for you.

People should never underestimate the value of working for something yourself.

[Hærfest Leah]

What is wrong with it? Absolutely nothing. I don't care how happy you say you are living with little money, but deep down everyone wishes they had a little more. Because you can't do a damn thing without it. There is nothing wrong with personal gain, I say better your life in as many ways you can.

A wiccan friend once told me, when it comes to spells for money, the goddess will never give you more than you absolutely need. If your asking for money as excess to get rich you'll never see it but if you need money for the basic necessities to live then she will help you. But that only works I guess if your Wiccan.

[semi]

Seapearls, I'm non-Wiccan, but it still works quite nicely. I just project the need, the absence, and it's always filled, but never with excess. This should, if done right, work for anyone regardless of their religion.

[Penthesilea]

I have never bought into the notion that it is somehow "noble" and/or "spiritual" to be poor. I grew up poor. Didn't care for it then and I don't recommend it to anyone now. You can't develop your spirituality if you don't know where your next meal is coming from or if you are going to be living on the street next week. If your child needs a doctor, you have no medical insurance and no cash, spiritually is not high on your list of priorities. For most of the last 13 years my magical efforts have been directed toward one specific goal. That goal, while not completely acheived, is now closer than it was. I intend now to work just as hard to bring financial security into my life, preferably without my husband having to work himself to death. If the universe decides that dropping a very large lottery jackpot into my lap is the way to accomplish that goal, I'm not going to complain.

[9-2-2]

I have never bought into the notion that it is somehow "noble" and/or "spiritual" to be poor. I grew up poor. Didn't care for it then and I don't recommend it to anyone now. You can't develop your spirituality if you don't know where your next meal is coming from or if you are going to be living on the street next week. If your child needs a doctor, you have no medical insurance and no cash, spiritually is not high on your list of priorities. For most of the last 13 years my magical efforts have been directed toward one specific goal. That goal, while not completely acheived, is now closer than it was. I intend now to work just as hard to bring financial security into my life, preferably without my husband having to work himself to death. If the universe decides that dropping a very large lottery jackpot into my lap is the way to accomplish that goal, I'm not going to complain.

I strongly second that notion. The Universe, frankly, doesn't give a damn about how rich or poor anyone is... if you are on your way to enlightenment, then you're on your way to enlightenment, money or not. The only ones who get their panties in a knot about something like this are people. When it comes to spirituality, I could care less about anyone else's petty, moralist, social games that have nothing to do with my spiritual well being - nothing but hinderance. :nuhuh: