Where was God on September 11th.?

[EasternPriest]

An interesting series written from Christian, Jewish, and Muslim perspectives.

The link below will take you to the index. Click on the Sunday Currents link to get to the articles.


http://www.uniontrib.com/news/uniontrib/sun/index.html

[Avena]

Those were three very touching articles. I especially liked the one written by "Abdulaziz Sachedina", because I found it to be the one most emotional point of view.

It's sad to know that first something so horrible as on Sept. 11th has to happen before people start wondering about God, about justice, about ethics and about faith...

I mean you could also ask
"Where was God during the bombing of Hiroshima?"
or
"Where was God after Hitler's takeover?"
or
"Where was God during inquisition?"
or
"Where was God when the first Jewish or the first Islamic innocent citizen in Palestine was killed?"
or ........

There first has to happen something in your own country
before you recognises the cruelness of this world. And then people even dare to blame God for their own blindness... Sick world indeed :(

[Illuminatus]

The Principia Discordia ('www.ology.org/principia/body.html') has a relevant passage relating to such silly questions as the ones you are asking. Here it is:

A SERMON ON ETHICS AND LOVE
One day Mal-2 asked the messenger spirit Saint Gulik to approach the Goddess and request Her presence for some desperate advice. Shortly afterwards the radio came on by itself, and an ethereal female Voice said YES?

"O! Eris! Blessed Mother of Man! Queen of Chaos! Daughter of Discord! Concubine of Confusion! O! Exquisite Lady, I beseech You to lift a heavy burden from my heart!"

WHAT BOTHERS YOU, MAL? YOU DON'T SOUND WELL.

"I am filled with fear and tormented with terrible visions of pain. Everywhere people are hurting one another, the planet is rampant with injustices, whole societies plunder groups of their own people, mothers imprison sons, children perish while brothers war. O, woe."

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THAT, IF IT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?

"But nobody Wants it! Everybody hates it."

OH. WELL, THEN STOP.

At which moment She turned herself into an aspirin commercial and left The Polyfather stranded alone with his species.

[Avena]

I don't think these questions are stupid. It's very natural that people start wondering about questions like those above when something bad happens to them. Maybe it's senseless to try to get them answered, but it's completely human to have such questions in mind.

I'm sure even firm atheists, when they first heard about September 11th's events, automatically said or thought something like "Oh my God..."

Nice text anyway, but it doesn't really make me feel better...

[StormChaser]

Where was god? Walk outside, take a good look around.
That's where "God" was. Right there.. all the time.. watching.

Where was deity? Deity was there to comfort those people who had only to say "i need you now". Deity is here to wipe away the tears and say "be strong now, you've work to do".
Deity says "I'm sorry this happened, but you can do it, just as you have faith in me, I have faith in you.. faith will carry you through this.. just believe".

Deity was in the people who saw what happened and ran to aid.. with checkbook and with their own bodies.. their blood.. their time. Deity was in the men and the women who to this day, still haven't given up the fight to rebuild, better than before... what once stood.

Deity lies within the morale that Bin Laden set to destroy.. Diety was the one kindling hope on the fires of love and perserverance, for when we became ready to combat the hopelessnesss that would try to overcome us when we were saddened.

Where was diety on Sept. 11th. Crying with us.. and pushing us along with quiet determination, that this evil, will not win.

Where was deity? Walk outside.. take a look around. That's where God was, and Is, and forever shall be.

[Myst]

That's why I'm not any of the religions, nor is my fiance.

For him, he doesn't feel the need to believe any God is there, he relies on himself.

For me, my God is also Kali, Tiamat, Hekate, the Dark Lord; destroyers... Sometimes I wonder where some people get off thinking Gods must always be love and light and there to protect them.

[StormChaser]

Even Kali is a protector.

God, Deity, Spirit, Inner Strength.. they are all within as they are without. Sorta like dust.. just everywhere.

hehe

Few if any people can actually handle life.. completely, 100% alone.. totally self sufficient and complete.

My comment was meant in a spiritual context.. not in a non spiritual one as you seemed to take it. But I suppose, in reality, it can be both.

[story]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
The Principia Discordia ('www.ology.org/principia/body.html') has a relevant passage relating to such silly questions as the ones you are asking. Here it is:

A SERMON ON ETHICS AND LOVE
One day Mal-2 asked the messenger spirit Saint Gulik to approach the Goddess and request Her presence for some desperate advice. Shortly afterwards the radio came on by itself, and an ethereal female Voice said YES?

"O! Eris! Blessed Mother of Man! Queen of Chaos! Daughter of Discord! Concubine of Confusion! O! Exquisite Lady, I beseech You to lift a heavy burden from my heart!"

WHAT BOTHERS YOU, MAL? YOU DON'T SOUND WELL.

"I am filled with fear and tormented with terrible visions of pain. Everywhere people are hurting one another, the planet is rampant with injustices, whole societies plunder groups of their own people, mothers imprison sons, children perish while brothers war. O, woe."

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THAT, IF IT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?

"But nobody Wants it! Everybody hates it."

OH. WELL, THEN STOP.

At which moment She turned herself into an aspirin commercial and left The Polyfather stranded alone with his species.



yup.

[Myst]

Originally posted by StormChaser
Even Kali is a protector.
...
My comment was meant in a spiritual context.. not in a non spiritual one as you seemed to take it. But I suppose, in reality, it can be both.

Kali is a protector when she wants to be, but she is also destroyer (and even as protector she is usually destroying to protect, not saving).

And actually, I didn't take your comment as anything; I wasn't responding to you but to the article posted at the top of the thread. :D

[StormChaser]

no need to get touchy.

It's not like this is live talk. pretty hard to tell sometimes whos saying what to whom, or responding to what.

But i do agree. there is a "dark" side to deity to.
Many people however are searching for the protecting loving god when asking "how could 'God' let this happen".

Of course.. not everyone believes in, deity in general, or even more than one deity.

It's a personal thing.

~Storm Chaser

[Myst]

Originally posted by StormChaser
no need to get touchy.

It's not like this is live talk. pretty hard to tell sometimes whos saying what to whom, or responding to what.

Psst I think I figured that out. See my smiley? :D Means I wasn't touchy in the first place, but I was letting you know I didn't mean anything about what you said by it.

So.... I'm looking forward to other people's opinions here... :)

[Avena]

Originally posted by StormChaser

But i do agree. there is a "dark" side to deity to.
Many people however are searching for the protecting loving god when asking "how could 'God' let this happen".

~Storm Chaser

Usually I'm much more into "dark" deities than into "light and bright protecting" ones, but in times like these, times that are dark (and might even get darker) I have the need to connect with "light" deities. Maybe it is a natural need to balance light and darkness:

When time is dark I need bright gods to "light things up"
When time is light and I feel ok I rather have the need to contact my own dark sight and darker deities.

Maybe anybody else would do it just vice versa :)

[Myst]

Hm I spent 21 and a half years with the lights, the past 6 months or so have been with the dark deities... what a ride ;)

[Avena]

Originally posted by Myst
Hm I spent 21 and a half years with the lights, the past 6 months or so have been with the dark deities... what a ride ;)

spend the next 21 years with the dark deities and everything's balanced again ;)

[StormChaser]

I work with neither more than the other.. I give out equal recognition. I love the day, I love the Night, I love the Goddess is all her phases.

And I quote Legend..

"Once, long ago, before there was such
a thing as time, the world was shrouded
in darkness.

Then came the splendor of light,
bringing life and love into the Universe,
and the Lord of Darkness retreated deep
into the shadows of the earth, plotting
his return to power....by banishing light
forever.

But precious light is protected,
harbored into the souls of Unicorns, the
most mystical of all creatures.
Unicorns are safe from the Lord of
Darkness, they can only be found by
the purest of mortals....Such a mortal
is Jack, who lives in solitude with the
animals of the forest.

A beautiful girl named Lili loves Jack
with all of her heart. In their innocence, they
believe only goodness exists in the world.
Together they will learn there can be
no good without evil....No love without
hate....No heaven without hell....No light
without darkness.

The harmony of the Universe
depends upon an eternal balance. Out
of the struggle to maintain this balance
comes the birth of Legends. "

[Danustouch]

Personally, I vascillate between believing that God and Goddess have the two ends of their personalities. Compassionate, loving, and protecting when you need it. Or ..the destroyer, dark energy, when that is needed.

Then, Sometimes I Call upon differen't gods and goddesses, for differen't purposes. I will call upon A Goddess in her Mother aspect, when I need the nurturance and comfort, and call upon her in her crone aspect, when I need a warrior presence.

It is my opinion, that both things are needed, in almost any situation.

On Sept 11th, we needed the Goddess in her Mother aspect, to comfort those who lost their loved ones, and to help us be compassionate to those in pain.

And we needed the crone aspect, the dark aspect...to help us take action, and to protect us.

I don't really believe in fate. I believe in Karma. I believe, basically, that the decisions we make, influence the outcomes of situations. So..while these thousands of people died in the heinous attack, I cannot resighn it to fate. Some...willful act of the Gods (for that is what my definition of fate is). I must simply say that imo, somewhere, at some time, their actions, influenced the outcome of the situation. Even if it be so simple a choice to take that flight, that day. Or go to work, that day. However, I cannot judge a persons Karma. That is why I don't delve into.."Well, maybe sept 11th was a Karmic Punishment for the US' misdeeds of the past.". Because the lives that were taken in that catastrophic event, were not " THE US" as a whole. They were thousands of individuals, Each with their own Karma, and their own life lessons, and their own decisions, etc. I'm not saying that any of them did something bad, and then they had to deal with the Karma of their actions. Perhaps they were taken out of this life, to begin their NEW lives, and their New lessons, sooner. Who knows? I'm not those individuals. Personally, I believe that on a subconcious level, each of us chooses how our lives will go. We don't realize we do it..for it may have happened lifetime upon lifetime ago. It's a spiritual knowing, not a physical, surfacy knowing. But..I don't think any of us has the answers, of what happened that day, or why. Perhaps it is something we don't need to know.

[airmist]

The depths of the posts here are great.

I do not ask such questions. I do not believe I am capable of understanding her answer. Further, and I mean no disrespect to anyone who does ask this type of question, because people always have, and therefore it is probably my deficiency not to, but I believe seeking such answers is an intellectual attempt to control one's feelings about something.

I know, I've already said most people have always sought an understanding so I don't mean to be so intellectually arrogant as to reject that which humanity has probably always done. But I find accepting what occurs, freeing. I do not mean I take no action; I'm only talking about the feelings and questions over events.

If the events are the result of the dark side, I try to accept, even if I ask the other aspects for help. If the events are from the bright side and I'm happy about them, I tend to be content rather than ecstatic (?) Not quite sure I'm saying this well, but it addresses a very important part of my spirituality and way of living life.

[airmist]

"Then, Sometimes I Call upon differen't gods and goddesses, for differen't purposes. I will call
upon A Goddess in her Mother aspect, when I need the nurturance and comfort, and call upon
her in her crone aspect, when I need a warrior presence....It is my opinion, that both things are needed, in almost any situation."

That was a quote from Danustouch a couple of posts back. I wish it had registered with me a little better before my last post.

I communicate with Gaia in the aspect that I think I need help from, as Danustouch just suggested, for any action I need to take as well as for understanding. But the understanding is a gift I may or may not receive and do not need to receive to accept what has occurred. I would explain too that acceptance doesn't equal "like" or "approval" or "it's ok." It only means, "it is."