Have you ever had to...

[Rainmoon_mist]

Boot someone out of your coven?
I am in a sticky situation where I am involved with a very small coven of women. I cofounded the coven along with a best friend and there are 2 other members. When the 3 of us are together, we have amazing energies. However, this 4th person has proclaimed her "life sucks" and is a drain on our study groups and energy. I have no idea how to address this! This person is also very defensive and does not take criticism at all lightly. To me, this is not what the Goddess is all about and I feel stuck! Any help (or just hugs?). Thank you! :sniffsnif

[Shadowsong]

*Hugs* That's a toughie. Have you tried talking to her, telling her how you feel, explaning all the while that you're not criticizing her? Honestly, if she's just being a jerk or something, or really having a negative effect upon your studies/rituals, then I think it's all right to ask her politely to leave.

[BlueMoon13]

Has it occured to you this person suffers from depression? Do you wonder WHY she says her life sucks?
I can't believe your attitude! What do you consider the bond of a coven to be? Apparently you don't value it at all since clearly you and your cohorts are prepared to "BOOT"?!?! her out of the coven when it appears she needs her coven the most. It's a COVEN for Pete's sake,not a book club or sewing circle. What DO you think the goddess is all about? Clearly compassion or understanding is not in your ideal of the goddess. But clearly arrogance is not since you actually have the balls to post this under the "Helping Hand & Hugs" forum, like YOU are the one whose coven "sisters" are plotting behind YOUR back and YOU are the one who needs support and comforting?!? Ponderous..
Has it occured to you that is all of YOU that are sucking the life out of her? Leaving your coven would be the best thing that could happen to her instead of having conniving,sneaky,back-stabbing "coven sisters" smiling in her face all the while plotting to "Boot" her out. If I knew her I'd tell her to run like hell and only come back to spit on your graves.
Hey! Here's an idea.....why don't you just show her your post? Heck, if she is depressed, she might just feel betrayed enough to become suicidal and kill herself, then you'll all be rid of a problem and,judging by your attitude, have a good laugh about it too.
If ANYONE thinks I'm being too harsh,put yourself in the place of someone who has been betrayed by the people they loved and trusted the most. PM me if you've got a problem with it.

[Shadowsong]

Yipes.... I'm sorry. :( But maybe we're not getting the whole picture here, maybe there's some stuff that's been going on and we don't know about...? but really, I'm so sorry for whatever's happened, BlueMoon. It doesn't sound pretty at all.

[Sage Rainsong]

Well maybe you should confront her directly but in a nice way. Say hey you have been acting in such and such a way. Is there something wrong? do you need to talk? Don't surround her and criticize her, just ask if she is okay. Honesty is the best policy especially in a coven. If you know she is sensitive try your best to phrase it in such a way that show concern rather than criticism. If she takes it the wrong way well its better than just being pissed and talking behind her back. Also it may be helpful to read some books on how to run a coven properly. A good one is: The Real Witches' Coven: The Definitive Guide to Forming Your Own Wiccan Group by Kate West

[Jenett]

I think it's really hard to make suggestions without knowing more about how the group functions.

For example, did you ever all talk about how to handle problems? Is there a general agreement that you all place the health of the group pretty high? If those things are true, you can probably bring them up, and say "Look, we know this group matters to you: we want to help you, or figure out how to fix this, but we need you to help us out."

As has been said (albeit bluntly), a coven isn't - and shouldn't be - something where you just toss someone out because they're having trouble. It's definitely a good idea to explore why that's going on, whether it's specific to the group or to the rest of someone's lives, if there are things that might help.

It is, however, sometimes the case that someone needs to take a sabbatical to get the rest of their life in order or to get things under control. Often, you can handle this by looking at what the group wants to focus on, and then talking to the person who's having trouble, and giving them the choice: can they focus on the group stuff when that matters, or do they need a break (or for other stuff in their life to change) before they can do that? That way, the focus isn't so much on "You're dragging us down" as on "We've gotten off track of what the group's focus is, how do we resolve that?"

(However, this does tend to work better when there's been some specific discussion about the group's focus and purpose in the first place. Otherwise, the person who's having trouble may feel that they didn't buy into that purpose, or that the other people are using different concepts to kick them out.)

[BlackMagicalCat]

Hey,what do I know,but her age matters,sometimes it takes years to mature,how old is she?Are you ready to commit to her training?Are the others willing to assist?Are you all mature?Sounds like she needs help,like so many of us do.

Is she teachable?This is important if you are going to train her,some are not,and cant be helped until they make themselves teachable.But what do I know,hope it works out for you.

[Rainmoon_mist]

Thank you all for your generous responses. BlueMoon- I am shocked at how you attack without knowing me or my whole situation. It is ironic that you attack me, though your harsh words are advising against the attack of another person. This has been my second post here (aside from my initial "hello) and I apologize if it has been missplaced. I do not know these forums yet and I must be honest when I say I hope your harsh and berating reply does not reflect upon these boards and its participants as a whole. Though it does not seem to in my post, I guess I will find out. BlueMoon- as well, I work with accutely suicidal inpatients in a psychiatric hospital. I appreciate your concern that this person may be depressed but your jokes at suicide concern me. They are distasteful, hurtful and above all, not something to use in a joke aimed at being cruel.

As for everyone else, thank you for your careful attemtion to my post and you advice. We must balance this person's need as an individual with the needs of the coven as a whole.

[audi]

this is probably why im not in a coven. working with others can be quite complicated. ;) but perhaps you are ment to help her threw this touch time. if you get get her to understand how the goddess is ment to be worshiped, then that might make your coven even stronger. just a thought. in the mean time, hang in there. *hugs* :steppy:

[mol]

ADMIN MODE

Calm down. Please keep our one and only rule in mind when lending *advice* or *replying*.

BlueMoon13, there was definitely no reason to post in the manner you did. Your point could have been made otherwise.

[BlueMoon13]

I'm sorry some of you took exception to my bluntness, but please keep in mind this "coven " is plotting against a member who is clearly in a weakened condition. Note the wording: "boot" her out. That tells me all I need to know.
If we want to get into a "p"ing contest, which I have no desire to, I also work everyday with suicidal patients. Moreover, I have BEEN in the shoes of someone whose "life sucked" from depression and was punished for it by my HP and some members of my coven for having the audacity to be human as well as a witch, and I have the scars to prove it. Do any of you know what it feels like to have your HP look at you and say "either get better or kill yourself" and "we're going to make you better or drive you crazy,because we can"? Or my personal favorite "We buried you this Beltane you back-stabbing P. O.S." and had to move and change your phone number to stop this mental and spiritual abuse? To not know who in the coven screwed you and who did'nt? There is no pain that compares with,except the loss of a child,gods forbid.It's no way to live, and I see this poor woman that's about to get "booted" thinking that she can at least trust her coven and sorry, I can't feel any sympathy for anyone planning to "boot" someone. It's the OTHER woman who needs our hugs and helping hands :heartbrea . If anyone thinks I'm being a bitch feel free to search back through my posts and,not to toot my own horn, but I think you'll find that I'm one of the MOST sympathetic and supportive people here.
However, to you, Mol and Semele, I do apologize for "going off" in your "house". It was unseemly and bad-mannered. I'll take special care not to post "from the gut" as it were,again. :ggrief:
Now the rant's concluded,some constructive advice,if I may:don't let this situation fester. Clearly you all are not compatible, and you,as a group, need to tell her so. I was serious about the fact that you all may be sucking the life out of her. You feel she's sucking the life out of the group so you resent her. She probably knows it psychically,feels worse, acts worse in your opinion,you resent her more, and on and on. The vicious circle.....give her her freedom from the coven and frame it in that way-release her from her vows and give her back her freedom . Give her a blank BOS to use as she sets down her own path. Find a nice bookmark and have someone artistic write this website on it, so she can use it as a resource.
It's what I would have wanted instead of being used and flushed like a piece of toilet paper.Bitter? You bet I am,but at least I'm still sane and have my self-respect back.
Now,without further comment or delay, I will bow out of this thread.

[Rainmoon_mist]

Blue Moon- thank you for channeling your energy from your previous negative expreriences into constructive criticism that I can read and think about. I am able to see your points and understand, at least a little, where you are coming from. I definitely appreciate it. I also realize that my using the term "boot" may have brought up negative experiences for you and I own that completely. I am sorry if it did. Please understand, thoug, I am not your previous HP and cannot be held responsible for her/his actions. I appreciate you sharing what happened to you, but not being held accountable for my own very different and unique experience. Heck- we don't even have an HP :farmerjoe

There are contributing personal factors to our situation that are not something I will post here- but suffice it to say, we have someone among us who has revealed a side of them that none of us knew. Had we known, we would have not been the right place for this person.This is the main reason why we are all stepping back and thinking twice.

In any event, I do appreciate all of your time and energy into my scenario. I have faith that the Goddess will show is the correct path.

[Raintreewolf]

Very true....trust in the Goddess. This is one of those challanges in life. She is there for her growth as well as for your groups growth.

I do not know what sort of group parctices you engage in but perhaps you could think of some practices that will help put everyone on the same page....like lead group meditation.

There is always group healings that can be done as well.

Somtimes a little extra time and nurturing helps but do not take the negitivity on.....channel it and give it back to the earth by touching th ground or running your hands under cold water.

Rejecting the person in the short run might seen like a solution but in the long run it is self defeating, I feel because if we look at life as a whole...than we are rejecting something in ourselves that this member represents in each of you. It is a real challange to embrace the dark side of ourselves and to look it squarly in the eye....when this is done well, true intigration , true bliss and wisdom will unfold in ways that are unimaginable.

It is beautiful to watch others grow and to have others watch us grow. It is not like. * poof* we are the perfect goddess just by willing or pretending it to be so or something...though some will be far more grounded starting out on thier path than others will be.

I do think this is the correct place for you to have posted this post because this is a challange and a struggle and one that needs some perspectives besides your up close and personal one.

Unconditional love is very difficult.

As you can see through BlueMoon's reaction and council that rejection can be very damaging and as a witch it is best to adhere to the Witche's Rede, If it Harms none, Do what Thou Will.

I think give it a little time, try not to judge, search yourself for all your motives and what you really are not liking about it...try to learn from that and incourage others to seek within themselve as well with the light of compassion as they do.

If you do this in earn'st and focus on yourself and not her, the path will be clear.....you will not even need to DO anything, she simpely will move on if her energies are not meant to be there with all of yours. Trust....stop trying to make something happen. Have good intentions focus on your own growth and watch with wonder at what does just happen on it's own.

(((((bear hug for you)))))

Just my two cents worth.

~Rain

[Rainmoon_mist]

Rain- thank you so very much for your heartfelt reply. I treasure the thoughts and points that you have made. Thank you.

[Laureletsage]

Has it occured to you this person suffers from depression? Do you wonder WHY she says her life sucks?
I can't believe your attitude! What do you consider the bond of a coven to be? Apparently you don't value it at all since clearly you and your cohorts are prepared to "BOOT"?!?! her out of the coven when it appears she needs her coven the most. It's a COVEN for Pete's sake,not a book club or sewing circle. What DO you think the goddess is all about? Clearly compassion or understanding is not in your ideal of the goddess. But clearly arrogance is not since you actually have the balls to post this under the "Helping Hand & Hugs" forum, like YOU are the one whose coven "sisters" are plotting behind YOUR back and YOU are the one who needs support and comforting?!? Ponderous..
Has it occured to you that is all of YOU that are sucking the life out of her? Leaving your coven would be the best thing that could happen to her instead of having conniving,sneaky,back-stabbing "coven sisters" smiling in her face all the while plotting to "Boot" her out. If I knew her I'd tell her to run like hell and only come back to spit on your graves.
Hey! Here's an idea.....why don't you just show her your post? Heck, if she is depressed, she might just feel betrayed enough to become suicidal and kill herself, then you'll all be rid of a problem and,judging by your attitude, have a good laugh about it too.
If ANYONE thinks I'm being too harsh,put yourself in the place of someone who has been betrayed by the people they loved and trusted the most. PM me if you've got a problem with it.

Whoa! Calm down! She clearly did not say anything about causing the person to kill themselves. Sometimes, people's energies just don't mesh. Sometimes people ARE a drain on group energy and they need to be asked to leave. Rainmoon, I have been in the exact same situation as you. There were 3 of us who got along great and had wonderful energy when together, but there was a 4th who dragged us all down. We did eventually ask her to leave.

[Raintreewolf]

It is important to know wehter it is a friendship or an actual coven...

It is true, no-one owes anyone anything....

It's a tough call here....and this something that needs to be sorted out for now and the future sittuations.