Spanking Illegal

[Lady RedHawk]

Next idea - why bother punishing kids at all? Now I agree that an excessive amount of corporal punishment can be seen as abuse and the electric shock is abhorable, but this is a bit much:

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/4582708/detail.html?subid=22100410&qs=1;bp=t (http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/4582708/detail.html?subid=22100410&qs=1;bp=t)

Kids today already call the cops if their parents raise their voices to them.

[Nighthawk]

Dumbest thing I ever heard. Next, we cannot take away the TV, cell phone, computer or stereo. "Baby is deprived because you rotten parent took his X-Box for a week. Your fine will be......" yup.

[Yvonne Belisle]

And people wonder why there is no disipline with children anymore. Many parents are afraid to disipline their children because calls to social services abound. My youngest lost a filling and so his tooth hurt. The teacher called social services about it with it having fallen out less than 24 hours prior!!! Said he wasn't getting proper dental care. Someone else called them saying my middle son wasn't getting medical care when he broke his wrist. Ironically they showed up at my house while I was with him at the dr for a follow up visit. Talking to the worker I made the comment if you fart wrong someone calls social services and she agreed she said it was crazy what they call in for. Some old guy accosted me the other week because my eight year old had his shirt off when it was 76 degrees out saying he would catch pnemonia.

[RavensEye]

Ah yeah Social services having had to deal with them 3 times over the aspt 8 years I have truly had enough. I am sometimes so paranoid to ever raise my voice without worrying on some level.

I mean we are damed if we do discipline and we are damed if we do not.

[MorningDove030202]

I feel that spanking needs a better definition. No I don't think kids need to be hit with a belt, but spanking with a hand and no other objects is just fine. I would be ok with a law that says that parents can not hit their kids with an object, only their flat open hand.

Dove

[wakywitch]

You know what, many of us here on this forum were raised in the days when a swat on the butt was effective. We didn't turn out so bad.
I wish people would find something constructive to complain about, instead of this mediocore stuff.

Why don't they launch an investigation on how many kids are abused and die at the hands of their parents because Social Services weren't doing their job!!

[blackroseivy]

God 'n' Goddess, you are sooo right!! :wtf: I'm afraid that when I have one, I won't be allowed to discipline at all, & I will wind up with a MONSTER on my hands - both then & later!!!

[Athena-Nadine]

Well Social Services will just have to get used to coming to my house when I have children, then, because they will be disciplined.

[MoonDust]

Sorry, but I'm 100% anti-spanking

[gwendar]

Oh lord.
While I do not think it's ok to be leaving marks on kids or really cause them pain... I do think discipline is needed, and for some kids, physical discipline is the only thing they'll respond to!
Scare 'em a little bit! Geez b'ys, (Newfie slang) it's not that bad.

[Temptation]

Sorry, but I'm 100% anti-spanking

Ditto. Spanking is unnecessary and usually a sign that the parent has lost control of the situation somewhere along the line.
I am the strictest parent ever, sometimes I think I go a little over board and my daughter wishes that Mommy would ease up a little, but I have never, ever used any kind of corporeal punishment, ever. There are other ways to discipline a child. It starts practically from the moment that they're born. I have been consistently strict and unforgiving of any misbehaviour on her part her entire life. She knows where she stands with me, she knows what line not to cross and what behaviour is expected of her. It works. I never had to hit her to make her behave. I've been tempted, mind you, she really knows how to push my buttons :lol: , but usually just one look from me is enough to stop her dead in her tracks. :lol:

[AstralMagick]

Sorry, but I'm 100% anti-spanking
My mom and dad are anti-spanking, but I do believe that some kids just wont respond to other things.

[Athena-Nadine]

Being anti-spanking is all well and good. I don't much care for it myself. But I don't think it's anyone else's business if someone chooses to spank their own children as long as there is no abuse involved. A smack on a child's rear end is not abuse. I know plenty of parents who don't physically discipline their children, yet their children are abused emotionally every single day without a thought.

[MoonDust]

Ditto. Spanking is unnecessary and usually a sign that the parent has lost control of the situation somewhere along the line.
Yup.
I am the strictest parent ever, sometimes I think I go a little over board and my daughter wishes that Mommy would ease up a little, but I have never, ever used any kind of corporeal punishment, ever. There are other ways to discipline a child. It starts practically from the moment that they're born. I have been consistently strict and unforgiving of any misbehaviour on her part her entire life. She knows where she stands with me, she knows what line not to cross and what behaviour is expected of her. It works. I never had to hit her to make her behave. I've been tempted, mind you, she really knows how to push my buttons :lol: , but usually just one look from me is enough to stop her dead in her tracks. :lol:
My mother stopped when the second was about 2 or so(me: 7). So the youngest was never spanked. My mother was constantly criticized because she stopped spanking us. We were going to grow up wild!
Funny thing is, now that the youngest is 13 (a pain in the butt age and getting worse by the minute!) everyone’s always commenting on how well behaved she is, how respectfull she is…
I asked my mom once why she stopped. She said: “ All I saw when I spanked you was how angry you’d become. You wouldn’t cry out in pain you’d cry out in anger. I felt terrible every time I spanked you and you were getting nothing out of it. You’d get up and misbehave all over again. So I stopped”
My mom and dad are anti-spanking, but I do believe that some kids just wont respond to other things.
Then there are other methods.

Being anti-spanking is all well and good. I don't much care for it myself. But I don't think it's anyone else's business if someone chooses to spank their own children as long as there is no abuse involved.
Where do we draw the line? Just because you can’t see the welts doesn’t mean the child isn’t being abused.
A smack on a child's rear end is not abuse.
No it’s not but it teaches that violence can be the answer. It teaches them that once you get big enough, if you’re bigger than your problem, then maybe you too can solve it by beating/hitting it.
I know plenty of parents who don't physically discipline their children, yet their children are abused emotionally every single day without a thought.that’s right, so why add more?

[Findarto]

Well Social Services will just have to get used to coming to my house when I have children, then, because they will be disciplined.
Agree'd.

[Athena-Nadine]

Where do we draw the line? Just because you can’t see the welts doesn’t mean the child isn’t being abused.

No, it doesn't, and personally, I agree with you about spaking in general. I do think that we, as a society, tend to scream "Abuse!" way too often these days. It seems to me that people are accusing other parents of abuse whenever they see them doing something they don't agree with. I agree that children need to be protected and that there are other ways, but it's gotten out of control. We've gone from protecting to coddling, and that saddens me.

No it’s not but it teaches that violence can be the answer. It teaches them that once you get big enough, if you’re bigger than your problem, then maybe you too can solve it by beating/hitting it.

No, it doesn't. It never taught me that, and it never taught anyone else I know that either. What taught me about violence was my father and his ranting, drunk, screaming rages. I learned about violence without having a hand laid on me. There is more to violence than an action. Violence is the product of an emotion--rage, fear, etc. It is the projection of the emotions that define violence.

[Arinya]

Although I will not spank my children, if I ever have any, I have nothing against spanking or parents that spank. I was spanked as a child but I don't think it had the effects it was supposed to have. My father spanked hard enough to scare me to death of him, I spent most of my child hood scared of him b/c of that. My mother didn't spank hard enough to matter, so we'd (my sister and I) would cry out of boredem just to make her stop.

I think taking things away from children (tv, video games, outdoor/indoor privaleges) is far more effective then spanking.

[blackroseivy]

Ther is an age (under about 5) when they aren't developed enough for this to be an alternative.

[RavensEye]

I think taking things away from children (tv, video games, outdoor/indoor privaleges) is far more effective then spanking.

Taking away things is not always an effetcive way of disciplining. And I base that comment on recent thigns happending in my own home with my children especially my eldest daughter.

[-Ember]

I'm undecided about spanking... I think it is easy to overuse, but it can also be effective.

Why don't they launch an investigation on how many kids are abused and die at the hands of their parents because Social Services weren't doing their job!!

On defense of a lot of very over worked Social Services workers... they are busy being underpaid to deal with huge caseloads, laws that prevent them from doing anything (often being legally unable to remove the child in cases where they want to and being required to in cases where they don't) while being distracted from "real" cases because they do need to respond to all of the ones that are reported.

I hear that complaint a lot. It isn't the social workers that are as much of the problem as the communities. Many people just want social services to swoop in and fix everyone else while leaving them, friends and family alone. And support all sorts of contradictory laws. I think the real answer is actual community responsibility. To have standards set as a community, not just expecting social services to come in and set them arbitrarily. And leave them for the "real" problems.

[Ceres]

Ther is an age (under about 5) when they aren't developed enough for this to be an alternative.

I think its easier to discipline young children under five without spanking because they are just so easy to teach. They want to know things about the world. I dont use spanking as a typical means of discipline at any age, but I have used it with one of my children who simply was being willfully disobedient or out of control on a few occasions. The other two havent required this ever.
While I think its not the most effective long term tool for teaching, I also dont think a smack on the butt every now and then is going to leave emotional scars.

[WingedTigerChild]

Next idea - why bother punishing kids at all? Now I agree that an excessive amount of corporal punishment can be seen as abuse and the electric shock is abhorable, but this is a bit much:

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/4582708/detail.html?subid=22100410&qs=1;bp=t (http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/4582708/detail.html?subid=22100410&qs=1;bp=t)

Kids today already call the cops if their parents raise their voices to them.

Actually, I think spanking should be illegal. There are other more effective, less violent methods of discipline.

[Amethyst Rose]

Ya think? Come to my house for a week and try controlling my son with these other 'more effective' methods. I spank when nothing else works....when every other form of punishment has been tried and it's not getting through to him. A smack on the butt says I'm dead serious. It depends on the child and the child's personality. Removing a parent's right to discipline their child in a way that is effective for that specific child, is tantamount to to putting Viper parts into a Volvo and expecting it to work perfectly.

[QUEEN OF THE DAMNED]

I'm a firm believer that children need to fear authority somewhat to respect it in their early years. If they are not afraid of authority (and I dont mean to the point of having a phobia or anything) then why would they obey the rules?

I used to get smacked (as we say in Oz, as opposed to spanked) as a child if I did something wrong, and if I did something really bad then I would cop the wooden spoon across my backside.
I think as long as parents are only smacking their child with an open hand and in places where it cannot really harm them eg. their bum then there is no problem with it.

I think that taking away a (sane) parent's right to discipline their child is basically giving the child the right to behave like a little $***.

[Ceres]

When kids know the rules, most will willingly comply if the rules make sense. I dont follow laws because I fear being jailed, I follow them because they make sense.
There are ways to teach (which is what discipline means) children things without using punishment as an incentive at all. This method is preferable for most things. If teaching them what the rule is and why its there doesnt work, my second choice is removing the child from the situation or using natural consequences until they get the point. When this doesnt work or cant be done because of logistics, punishment may be required, possibly even spanking. Most experts agree that a swat on the butt doesnt really hurt, as long as it isnt the only method of discipline used and its not being used more than once or twice a week.
The assumption that discipline always means punishment is an incomplete view of the parent's role in the art of discipline. Punishment may be part of discipline, but its certainly not the only tool for teaching at your disposal.

[Valnorran]

It depends on the child and the child's personality.
That's it in a nutshell. Some kids listen and obey. Some don't listen until they risk physical pain.
Removing a parent's right to discipline their child in a way that is effective for that specific child, is tantamount to to putting Viper parts into a Volvo and expecting it to work perfectly.
What's really peculiar is most members here are against the government having too much power, yet some are willing to surrender their parental rights and let the government dicatate how they raise their children.

[LadyTrinity]

Parents should be allowed to do whats right for there kids providing their kids are in no danger

[Darakash]

I have swatted the behind of my 4-year-old exactly twice. Now, this was some time ago. One incident involved a repeated behavior that was just distructive and resulted in things breaking, over and over....with repeated attempts of other options having no effect, and the other was over danger to her self.....these incidents both happened under 2.5 years old....and the response was a "swat" I have never HAD to do this again. Both behaviors stopped immediately and never resumed after the swat...and now, if something is getting out of hand, it only takes...."Do you want a spanking?" to stop repetitive negative behavior, I start with other things, and only say this when something is extreme. And, she has an understanding that this is a serious thing. and she stops doing it.

I would prefer never to ever have to spank her again. But, as a parent, I feel that I have a right to decide what dicipline works bests, as long as there is no extreme pain, no long' term trauma and no humilation, involved. It is ridiculous for the state to do this....it is not within their bailiwick (sp?) as far as I am concerned!

[WingedTigerChild]

When kids know the rules, most will willingly comply if the rules make sense. I dont follow laws because I fear being jailed, I follow them because they make sense.
There are ways to teach (which is what discipline means) children things without using punishment as an incentive at all. This method is preferable for most things. If teaching them what the rule is and why its there doesnt work, my second choice is removing the child from the situation or using natural consequences until they get the point.

I think most (if not all) children will respond to these methods. The trick is starting early and/or getting the parent or guardian to stay calm and stick with it. Most spankings that I have observed happen when the parent is at their wits end and doesn't want to try anything else/make an effort to try anything else or is ignorant of alternative methods of discipline. I just feel strongly about nonviolence where applicable. What kind of message do we send to kids when we smack them for doing something wrong? Some might fear it, but others get the idea that it's okay to smack others (adults, peers, etc.) when they're doing something wrong...and others still (like myself) just build up a lot of hatred towards those doing the smacking/spanking and often don't respond to it as hoped after some time.

[HorseCrow]

Spanking is illegal in this country and has been for years and years- and here are plenty of well behaved kids. I'm all for it.

[Ceres]

Some might fear it, but others get the idea that it's okay to smack others (adults, peers, etc.) when they're doing something wrong...and others still (like myself) just build up a lot of hatred towards those doing the smacking/spanking and often don't respond to it as hoped after some time.


From what I read, most kids feel the same way you did. They are so focused on "revenge fantasies" because they are angry with whomever hit them that they cannot really learn the intended lesson. The issue becomes too clouded by anger for them to be able to explore their own part in what happened.
Some kids also start misbehaving to relieve guilt, which can be very emotionally unhealthy. What happens is they have guilt over real or imagined trangressions (like they think its their fault their pet died, or that their best friend was bullied, or even that their sibling was blamed for spilling paint in the garage) and so they will deliberately misbehave in order to be punished because then they feel their transgression is "paid for". They dont learn to deal directly with their feelings, which is not a good thing.
As stated earlier, I dont think the occasional swat for extreme behavior is damaging, but if the first parental response to most or all discipline situations, it becomes a problem.

[Amethyst Rose]

I think that's utterly rediculous. Most kids who are spanked hate the people doing the spanking and suffer psychological damage??? Come on! I don't know what you've been reading, but it sounds like propoganda to me. Every person I know, irl, every single one, was spanked growing up and not a one resents their parents or were negatively effected in anyway. Now, either everyone I know is very unique, or to say that most kids are like that is a gross over generalization.

[Sequoia]

I think that's utterly rediculous. Most kids who are spanked hate the people doing the spanking and suffer psychological damage??? Come on! I don't know what you've been reading, but it sounds like propoganda to me. Every person I know, irl, every single one, was spanked growing up and not a one resents their parents or were negatively effected in anyway. Now, either everyone I know is very unique, or to say that most kids are like that is a gross over generalization.
I resent that my parents didn't spank myself or my brother - time outs, loss of privilages, and "patient explaination" coddling simply do not work with all children. My brother has attacked me with knives, hockey sticks, baseball bats, and golf clubs. He has broken my windows in, left bruises, and nearly sent me to the hospital. "Little tyke" needed a good spanking, and a constant application of structured discipline. He never got it.

I got older, I learned things, I grew out of it. This kid's still this badly behaved, talking back, threatening to harm others... and he's going into the military. Maybe they'll discipline it out of him.

But suggesting that ALL children respond to "Timmy, you don't get to play X-Box today, now go sit in a chair and pout," is rediculous. I don't know what kind of fantasyland you and your child (I'm assuming you're a parent?) live in, but it isn't the world a decent number of families are in.

[Ceres]

I think that's utterly rediculous. Most kids who are spanked hate the people doing the spanking and suffer psychological damage??? Come on! I don't know what you've been reading, but it sounds like propoganda to me. Every person I know, irl, every single one, was spanked growing up and not a one resents their parents or were negatively effected in anyway. Now, either everyone I know is very unique, or to say that most kids are like that is a gross over generalization.

Thats not what I said. I said most kid are so focused on anger (of which hatred, at least at that time is part) that they spend the time thinking about that, instead of "learning their lesson". At no point did I say it would damage them psychologically, and in fact what I said was that experts agree the occasional swat on the butt will NOT damage them.
I also didnt say they hate their parents for it today, but kids do live in the moment and anger is what they are feeling when they are spanked....remorse, less often ;) Unless of course its remorse at getting caught.
I dont think its over generalizing at ALL to say a kid's immediate reaction at being swatted is anger....I think it would be a rare child who immediately after being spanked, thinks how much they love the parent and how much they appreciate their concern ;)

[Ceres]

I resent that my parents didn't spank myself or my brother - time outs, loss of privilages, and "patient explaination" coddling simply do not work with all children. My brother has attacked me with knives, hockey sticks, baseball bats, and golf clubs. He has broken my windows in, left bruises, and nearly sent me to the hospital. "Little tyke" needed a good spanking, and a constant application of structured discipline. He never got it.

I got older, I learned things, I grew out of it. This kid's still this badly behaved, talking back, threatening to harm others... and he's going into the military. Maybe they'll discipline it out of him.

But suggesting that ALL children respond to "Timmy, you don't get to play X-Box today, now go sit in a chair and pout," is rediculous. I don't know what kind of fantasyland you and your child (I'm assuming you're a parent?) live in, but it isn't the world a decent number of families are in.

With this I agree. There are some kids in some situations who simply need a strict structure and the occasional swat as back up for understanding or because they are out of control. I certainly didnt feel this way until I had a child like this myself. I know and can implement all the effective parenting techniques, but situations arose for which those techniques were not designed. I have used it less than a dozen times in all and he will nine years old this fall.

[Sequoia]

With this I agree. There are some kids in some situations who simply need a strict structure and the occasional swat as back up for understanding or because they are out of control. I certainly didnt feel this way until I had a child like this myself. I know and can implement all the effective parenting techniques, but situations arose for which those techniques were not designed. I have used it less than a dozen times in all and he will nine years old this fall.

Of course. And I would NEVER advocate swatting a child for every little thing. It's just that some people don't seem to realize that 1) a swat is not abuse, and 2) not all kids respond to purely verbal/psychological forms of punishment or discipline.

I mean, is getting your child's immunizations abusive? Why not? It's extremely painful, can leave scars, can make the child ill, and can cause trauma (not to mention a fear of needles). Surely all of us remember getting shots at some point, and the pain and panic it instilled in us. So why aren't they considered abusive?

Because they serve a purpose. As do swats or spanks.

Nobody's advocating shoving needles into children's eyes so that they don't get the common cold. Neither are people advocating beating a child because he forgot to take out the trash.

[Ceres]

Of course. And I would NEVER advocate swatting a child for every little thing. It's just that some people don't seem to realize that 1) a swat is not abuse, and 2) not all kids respond to purely verbal/psychological forms of punishment or discipline.

I mean, is getting your child's immunizations abusive? Why not? It's extremely painful, can leave scars, can make the child ill, and can cause trauma (not to mention a fear of needles). Surely all of us remember getting shots at some point, and the pain and panic it instilled in us. So why aren't they considered abusive?

Because they serve a purpose. As do swats or spanks.

Nobody's advocating shoving needles into children's eyes so that they don't get the common cold. Neither are people advocating beating a child because he forgot to take out the trash.

Dont even get me started on the immunizations! :eyebrow:

[MorningDove030202]

Any time any parenting technique is used exclusivly it looses it's effectiveness. I think that spanking shouldn't be the first punishment. I also don't think spanking should include any objects, like belts or sticks. Even yelling can be verbally abusive, and I know parents that yell first. We arn't born knowing how to raise a child, and when "nothing else works" spankning is only going to work for how long and to what age? It will becomes necessary and in the best interest of the kids and parents to research new techniques.

Dove

[Exloration_La]

laying it down firmly with lots of tough love ;) *link removed by mol*

[Ceres]

laying it down firmly with lots of tough love ;) *link removed by mol*

Ok, am I the only one afraid to click on that for fear it will be some weird pornographic thing?

[Exloration_La]

Ok, am I the only one afraid to click on that for fear it will be some weird pornographic thing?

There is no porn, and not even any pop ups..... I would not have posted it here in this section if it was porn.

*link removed by mol*

[Ceres]

OKAY THAT WAS NASTY! I have children around who often watch over my shoulder while I type - where are the MODERATORS!!??

[Exloration_La]

OKAY THAT WAS NASTY! I have children around who often watch over my shoulder while I type - where are the MODERATORS!!??

um.. I really don't know what you are talking about? I thought it was funny... it's not pornographic by ANY MEANS at all.. it shows a girls butt check but that by no means is pornographic.. girls wear thongs at beaches show just as much as do bill boards ALL around you.. news paper ads .. and just throw out your television.. and lock your kids in the house LOL Magazines in grocery stores show more then that. They show bare breasts and barley cover the front side, and they make it sexually suggestive , and this link had none of that so I don't know how that would be inappropriate?????

[Ceres]

Nudity doesnt bother me, but women being spanked by men does. I didnt explore the site as I had curious eyes lurking about the room. When I asked if it were porn, you should have said what it was instead of continuing to pretend it was about disciplining children.

[Exloration_La]

Nudity doesnt bother me, but women being spanked by men does. I didnt explore the site as I had curious eyes lurking about the room. When I asked if it were porn, you should have said what it was instead of continuing to pretend it was about disciplining children.


hm... well I guess it's kind of strange as they seem to take it seriously, but I thought that is what made it funny.....

although I disagree with it and think it's dysfunctional. Allot of people CHOSE dysfunction.. there is a whole community of those women that seek out and or support men who spank them, and you would fail miserably to convert them just as they would fail miserably to tell you that you need a man to give you spankings. I thought the psychology to it was interesting and you can see the same concepts manifesting itself in different ways in human behavior.

Personally I give my girlfriend a playful swat if she gives me attitude :) But it's ONLY purely out of playfulness.. and she will give me a playful swat to lighten me up when I'm acting ridiculous or in other context it can actually be stimulating if used lightly and playfully cause neither of us are into pain ;) with me it's just out of fun. I have to have a strong women who respects herself enough not to put up with abuse.

If I was truly upset I would either talk it out or give any space or time for reflection I needed so I don't say anything I don't mean.

Truly though I don't take the site so seriously and see it with humor...

As far as my opinion on spanking children I will say I think it should be used only in rare context and rarely.... I believe spanking might have a place if used properly, but I will say it didn't work on me I think because it was used improperly and I had a feeling of confusion and anger when spanked.. .. I think because I didn't understand why I was being punished. I think having clear communication about things and a frame about things and it might be helpful in certain cases, but if a parent is feeling angry I believe he or she should cool down before giving any kind of discipline.....

Really I believe for the most part spanking a child should be unnecessary and through good communication and teaching your child to take responsibility and correct his or her actions is the best course of action.

[mol]

um.. I really don't know what you are talking about? I thought it was funny... it's not pornographic by ANY MEANS at all.. it shows a girls butt check but that by no means is pornographic.. girls wear thongs at beaches show just as much as do bill boards ALL around you.. news paper ads .. and just throw out your television.. and lock your kids in the house LOL Magazines in grocery stores show more then that. They show bare breasts and barley cover the front side, and they make it sexually suggestive , and this link had none of that so I don't know how that would be inappropriate?????
ADMIN MODE

Please keep this thread on topic. It is not about a spanking fetish, it is about raising children. Thanks.

Links removed.

[Kern]

I dont believe in abuse of children,but spanking is not abuse and any one that thinks disciplining children is abuse need to have their heads examined...

But I agree that communication is essential......explain why they are being punished...Its worked for me.....my child understands perfectly well that when I say something I mean it..And I explain to her the reason.......why I say not to do something......and I hardly ever have to spank her any more...

[Exloration_La]

ADMIN MODE

Please keep this thread on topic. It is not about a spanking fetish, it is about raising children. Thanks.

Links removed.

ok yeah it was off topic, and I guess I wasn’t thinking since I wouldn’t want the same thing to my thread. Future reference I will keep the content relevant to the original poster.
Sincerely
exploration_la

[juniper04]

b/c my brother and i were hit on our butts with a leather belt by our dad i dont think hitting or verbal abuse is the answer.

[Sequoia]

b/c my brother and i were hit on our butts with a leather belt by our dad i dont think hitting or verbal abuse is the answer.
Getting hit with a leather belt is not spanking, hon. That's called a 'beating'.

A spank is not to injure a child. That is NEVER the point of spanking.