Hindu Wicca

[AdNoctum]

I'm curious as to whether anyone here practices this. I'm mostly curious about ritual style, like what elements from both religions you incorporate in rituals. Have you encountered any points where Wicca and Hinduism contradict philosophically?

I'm just looking for whatever information you can share. The rest of the Internet isn't yielding much.

[Toby Stimpson]

Hiya,

Well, I have been worshipping Hindu Devas for a little while now...almost two years working with Jai Kali Ma. Strictly speaking, and this is my own opinion, I try not to call it Hindu Wicca as Wicca is not nearly as advanced theologically as Hinduism. It was actually Hinduism which had a role in the creation of Wuicca half a century ago. Wicca, that is the Goddess/God worshipping, is not really a new idea...as the idea of Goddess worship has existed in hinduism for thousands of years. If anything Wicca would be more a form of Shaktism in my mind. When I worship...I honour a Great Goddess archetype, wich is seen in Hinduism through the worship of Devi, the Female presence. I use Puja and sing Bhajans and Mantras...that is the extemnt of my ceremonies...but in respect to Hinduism I do not ry to merge the two, even though they have commonalities. Wicca however is a grandchild of sorts of Hinduism, and obviously shares many characteristics...but does lack the monotheistic qaulity of Hinduism. Namaste

Tobias :D

[AdNoctum]

Hi Galadraal!

I use Puja and sing Bhajans and Mantras...that is the extemnt of my ceremonies...but in respect to Hinduism I do not ry to merge the two, even though they have commonalities.

So would you see anything wrong with someone worshiping Hindu deities in a Wiccan ritual setting?

Wicca however is a grandchild of sorts of Hinduism, and obviously shares many characteristics...but does lack the monotheistic qaulity of Hinduism.

Well, you know, there are those "all gods are one god" types... ;)

[Paracelsus]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I practice anything called "Hindu Wicca", but am a Pagan (& wiccan), who is profoundly influenced by Hinduism. I think that there are very many synchonicities between the two – particularly obvious in Tantric Hinduism (check out the excellent - http://www.shivashakti.com/) (http://www.shivashakti.com/)) . There are obvious links between elements of Hindu traditions and Wicca – Gardner himself, and Crowley were both profoundly influenced by Hindu ideas, but I would not go as far as Anna Moura’s assertions in “Origins of Modern Witchcraft” – which are, to say the least, of dubious historicity.

I’m not sure that I share Galadraal’s view that Hinduism contains a profound, underlying Monotheism – while this is certainly true of the Bhakti cults, and of Vishishtadvaita Vedanta, one may also find profound Polytheisms (both hard and soft), and Monism as active parts of Hinduism. Of course, probably the greatest similarity between the two is the fact that they are both pretty impossible to define!

For me, it is the daily, almost subconscious veneration of the variety of spiritual phenomena, which one finds in vernacular Hinduism, that has the greatest resonance with my Paganism, but that’s just me.

I suspect that if you want a ready made “tradition” of “Hindu-Wicca”, then you are not going to find it. However, I would suggest a Hindu solution – do whatever feels right for you, read Hindu texts (Start with the Gita, which contains much of great beauty although is profoundly monotheistic, being, at heart, a Bhakti text. Then try the Upanishads, which are my personal fave – much more where my head is at), adopt some Hindu practices, sing bhajans, chant mantras … who knows you may find the tradition that you are looking for within your heart, for that is, after all, where we all find the truth.

As it says in the Katha Upanishad – “'The Self, smaller than small, greater than great, is hidden in the heart of that creature. A man who is free from desires and free from grief, sees the majesty of the Self by the grace of the Creator”

[AdNoctum]

I suspect that if you want a ready made “tradition” of “Hindu-Wicca”, then you are not going to find it.

Oh, believe me, I realize this already. What lead me to ask this (aside from my own intellectual interest in the two religions) was the fact that so many other pantheons, Kemetic, Greek, Norse, etc., all seem to have Wiccan traditions focused on them, but I had never heard of a Hindu based tradition. Information on the Internet is practically non-existent except for one site (http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/4965/hinduwicca.html), so I figured someone around here would know something.

However, I would suggest a Hindu solution – do whatever feels right for you, read Hindu texts (Start with the Gita, which contains much of great beauty although is profoundly monotheistic, being, at heart, a Bhakti text.

I've already read the Gita and will eventually be starting on the Upanishads. Right now I'm more interested in studying the deities themselves, as well as religious art and music.

Right now, it's a more intellectual interest rather than a spiritual one. But that can always change. :)

[Toby Stimpson]

:hearthear ...I whole heartedly agree Paracelsus. And then, when it all coems down to it as Ghandi said, "There are as many religions in the world as there are people." If you are influenced by Sanatan Dharma and it fulfills you...and you remain Wiccan however...it doesnt matter what the name of that 'path' is as long as it fulfills you. As for the ultimate reality of the Universe, whether Monotheistic, Polythesitic, Atheistic...etc,. we can only speculate on, although what makes Hinduism and in essance Neo Paganism is that there is that pluralalism that allows for all to be right and all to be wrong...all to have a piece and a whole pie. You mentioend wanting to know more of the Gods AdNoctum, if I may indulge for an instant...I have foun that studying Poster Art has helped me to become more and more familiar with the Lesser Devas, if you have MSN be all means feel free to add me, I'll send you a few...(I have a file with over 200 images...not extensive but getting there). Namaste! :D

Tobias

[bbnflpn]

i am also intrested in learning about hindu. lord gonesha has always been a guide for me. as a part of our study for our circle we are doing a monthly thing on pantheons and i chose hindu gods. from what i have read so far the hindu, american indian, and asian gods are ones that i can identify with. are there any sites you can point me to that give storys about the hindu gods. i have found wonderful sits about the gods them self and this one http://www.koausa.org/Gods/ (http://www.koausa.org/Gods/) has great info on what the actual symbolisim of the gods (ie how they look whats in typical paintings of them ect) but no real storys. i will go through the sites that have already been posted for more info. any help would be apreciated.

[Toby Stimpson]

There are many stories for all the Devas...all found in either local legend or the scriptures, such as the Epics, the Upanishads (thats where most of the modern stories are found) and somewhat the Vedas...etc,. What God were you most interested in, we might as well share the stories here so others can have a quick resource?

Namaste

Tobias

[bbnflpn]

i and doing a study on all of the devas, i know there are 3 main deatiys, i would also like to do a family tree.

[Darkdale]

I get so tired of terms like "Norse Wiccan" " "Hindu Wiccan" "Roman Wiccan".

Wicca is it's own religion.
Hinduism is it's own religion.

[Ben Trismegistus]

Wicca is it's own religion.
Hinduism is it's own religion.

Exactly. One can be a Hindu-influenced Wiccan, or even a Wiccan-influence Hindu, but not a Hindu Wiccan. Although I believe they already addressed that.

[Khuinaset]

I get so tired of terms like "Norse Wiccan" " "Hindu Wiccan" "Roman Wiccan".

Wicca is it's own religion.
Hinduism is it's own religion.

So what would you call a Wiccan who exclusively worships the Hindu(/Roman/Norse) pantheon and incorporates some aspects of that religion into their practice? Hindu Wiccan is a lot easier to say than that :p

edit: oops, Ben has a shorter answer...so disregard that.

[Paracelsus]

I get so tired of terms like "Norse Wiccan" " "Hindu Wiccan" "Roman Wiccan".

Wicca is it's own religion.
Hinduism is it's own religion.


Wel Asa, you are incorrect when you state that "Hinduism is its own religion".

"Hinduism" is little more than a western intellectual construct to try and formularise and regulate a vast number of (frequently not even vaguely related) Indian religious traditions -from the Elite and Intellectual, to the vernacular and magickal. Indeed, "Hinduism" as a term for talking about Indian religions is about as useful as "Paganism" as a term for talking about the variety of ideas that we find on these boards. Further compounded by its nature as an etic discourse - one from outside the tradition (Hindus only started talking about themselves as "Hindus" in the late nineteenth century). Thus, point 1, "Hinduism is not a religion".
There are many ideas and practices within Hinduism that hold considerable resonance with the practice of Wicca - particularly the Tantric tradition, as I stated earlier, while it is unlikely that, as some would suggest, the Indian tradition spread westward in pre-historic times, there is certainly considerable evidence to suggest that many of the Founders of contemporary Wicca were influenced in their theology and practice by their experience of "Hinduisms". Thus point 2 - we cannot deny that actually Wicca and Hinduism are related.
Finally we may state that, as Pagans & Wiccans are, if they are honest, "Making it up as the go along", it is only natural that people absorb resonant influences from the spiritual and intellectual traditions that they encounter (you, for example, could hardly deny a Nietzschean influence on your world view). Thus point 3 - your complaint is ill - founded, as Pagans both practice, and will continue to practice this kind of (justificable) cultural piracy.

[Toby Stimpson]

Very well said...Hinduism was up until maybe a hundred and fifty years ago unknown. Hindus refer to their 'religion' as Sanatan Dharma, which is in it's self more of a vague referenace to several sets of smaller theistic viewpoints. To take it a step further, Hindus started t refer to themselves as that becasue of their geographic location (coming from the land beyond the Hindu-Kush)...thus any eligion in india could basicly be seen as a Hindu religion becasue it is from India.

As has already been stated, I would not go as far as to call it Hindu Wicca...but that does not take away the possibility to grow with different ideas...after all that is one can grow spiritually is to look at different traditions to strengthen your own...which is why Paganism and Hinduism have become so great.

As for the Gods, I can speak a little to that...there are family trees but they are not as near advanced as the Greek or even Norse geneologies. There was a vast shift in thinking about a thousand years ago when the Vedic age made way for the Brahmanic age. Basicly before hand the original Vedics worshipped a Pantheon very similar to the middle eastern babylonian model...specific Deities representing natural phenomenon and so forth. There were several Triads ruling the Pantheon...one of them was Indra, Mithra and Varuna. As time went on, the religious traditions shifted to focus on the modern Triad of Brahma the Creator, Shiva the Destroyer, and the Vishnu the Preserver. The Vedic Gods are mostly talkd about in the four sacred Vedas, whereas the Brahmanic Triad is talked about in later scriptures. The Devas' geneology is soemwhat reduced to individuals, but generally they all coem from the 3 main ones and also the minor Vedic Gods.

Shiva for example, who's chief consort is Sati/Shakti generally is seen to have three children, the two main ones Ganesh and Kartikkeya/Skanda, and a third lesser known deity called Ayyapan, the Celibate Guru. There are so many different conflicting stories as to the births of these Gods, but generally is is seen that Ganesh came from Parvati and was adopted by Shiva, Kartikka came from either Shiva alone or was concieed after Kama shot Shiva with a dart, and Ayyapan's origins are uncertain, well...I have only been able to find the same story retold word for word on every site by the same author...I might have to go down to the Vishnu mandir in Toronto and see what they say.

I have moe, but im starting to doubt my thoughts right now lol, so I will have to leave that for you to find on yuor own. namaste

Tobias

[bbnflpn]

thank you very much, i have about a month before i have to present this to my freinds. i have been slowly gathering info do you mind if i use your explination in my notes.

[MorningDove030202]

While there are Reconstructionist options for worshiping the Norse and Roman gods, thankfuly Wicca also gives us the option to worship theses Gods too, either excusivly or along with all the other Gods of World Mythology. Being that there are many forms of Wicca, I can se how an exclusively Norse Wiccan would want to make that clear when speaking with other Wiccans or Pagans. On the other hand Reconstructionism is not for everyone. We ususe these terms with no disrespect intended. Why would someone elese's lable make you tired? Perahpse if judging others (which is obviously going on here) makes you tired you should stop judging other people's lables and accept people and the diversity of Wicca for what it is, right or wrong, but right for the individual practioner.

Dove



I get so tired of terms like "Norse Wiccan" " "Hindu Wiccan"
"Roman Wiccan".

Wicca is it's own religion.
Hinduism is it's own religion.

[Agaliha]

I'm curious as to whether anyone here practices this. I'm mostly curious about ritual style, like what elements from both religions you incorporate in rituals. Have you encountered any points where Wicca and Hinduism contradict philosophically?

I'm just looking for whatever information you can share. The rest of the Internet isn't yielding much.


AdNoctum, I am looking for them same thing. There is no info about Wicca with Hindu Gods and rituals. For what I skimmed, calling in Hindu Wicca is not so correct...I'm not sure wht to call it though.
So far I have been researching how Saraswati and Kali are worshipped in Hinduism...but after that I have no idea how to combine the two (Wicca w/hindu Gods/ritual elements)...
I just I'll just have to research some more, lol

[Toby Stimpson]

Well, of what i have seen, read, developed on my own ideas...Riyuels in both traditions are similar. Wiccans invoke the Qaurters and Gods to the circle, Hindus "wake" their Gods in the Murti using fire lamps. Wiccans use rituel for magic...Hindus repeat Mantras to bring about wishes. In many ways the two are incompatible only becasue well, there is no one way to be Wiccan and there is no one way to be Hindu...in my experiance though if you treat Wicca as a form of Hinduism and chnage some Wiccan rituels to follow a Hindu Puja you can often mingle the two into one. What I should do more in prayer, its one of those things I have thought about but never done is either to create 2 shrines, one to the Hindu and one to the Western Pagan Gods. However since I worship at one alter, what i usually do is have items that dont match either Hindu or Pagan ideas...one way would to use a standrad Puja format such as singing of the central Mantra AUM, waking the deities...honouring Ganesh...followed by Kali, Durga, Morgan Le Fey (with Celtic way of wroship ofcourse), Shiva with his forms Ardhanarisvara and Nataraja, followed by Krishna and Radha......a low bow to Gautama Buddha and the Bodhisattvas (Buddhist style of palms togetehr facing the floor), followed by a closing prayer for peace, whether it be Pagan or a Sanskrit Mantra like AUM Shanti Shanti Shanti. Insert into that any prayers/bhajans devotional meditations or what not directed at each deity...in a style befitting that specific deity. That is how I would conduct a prayer ritual if I were trying to honour both sides of the spectrum...Eastern and Western. Ofcourse with anything one must look at the mental perspective...as long as you atleats know the proper ways to worship purely in one traditions then you can have free range...the mental part is vital however becasue without the right frame of mind...what ever you do wont really be honouring both traditions...you'd just be following blindly and making up soemthing that has no power attached. Namaste, and welcome to the site Whispers of Saraswati :D.

Tobias

[Agaliha]

Thank you, Galadraal, for your input. :).

I guess I sould clarrify-- or amend myself...I was not meaning having "western" wiccan dieties <i>along</i> with Hindu ones. I was refering to have Hindu Goddess and Gods worshipped in a Wiccan structure, with no other dieties but them. So for example, in Wicca there are things such as casting the circle, calling the quarters, invoking the God and Goddess, etc. <i>but</i>could one cast a circle using a Hindu blessing or mantra for protection, or invoke minor Hindu dieties for protection, and all upon say Saraswati and Brahma instead of say Brighid and Lugh or other "western" dieties? So Wiccan structure and practice with the addition of Hindu Gods and practice...I hope that makes sense.

[MorningDove030202]

It makes sence to me, however it's more important that it makes sence to you. Ultimatly you have freedom of religion and you can worship however you want.

Dove

[Agaliha]

I found a site about "Hindu Wicca"-- it's not really detailed, but its the first one I've seen

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/4965/hinduwicca.html (http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/4965/hinduwicca.html)

[MorningDove030202]

Last year, Green Egg magazine devoted an entire issue to the Hindu/Pagan connection with excellent articles written by people with knowledge of modern Paganism as well as Hinduism.

I found that in the link above me... I bet it would be a great resource if you could find the back issue of it.

Dove

[Toby Stimpson]

Hmmm, seems rather interesting and yes it would be a great resource to have...just for the comparisons. I don't see why you wouldnt be able to call on Hindu gods in a wiccan format, however, I have my misgivings about it. Mainly becasue I myself havn't tried it I wouldnt want to to say "go for it..." without really knowing if it works or not. I mean the last thing you want is to go ahead and then piss of a Deva...hey can be quite ahem, terrible at times. With respect Morningdove...I dont think it is a case of "you can worship however you want." With some deities, the rituals towards Gods are set up so that they create a tunnel of power and there is a right way and a wrong way to perform worship. Some Gods...or the ones I have experianced appreciate the effort to finding out a proper way to worship than to just simply go in and do it however which way you want without really thinking about it. Finding a compfortable way to worship Hindu Gods in a wiccan setting shows that you've looked into things and DO know how to worship properly. Unless there are grievous moral objections...like lets say objection to Human sacrifice (and it HAS happened in hinduism and in other traditions) then you atleats must know a way to get around that without disrespecting a tradition and your own intelligence. The purest form of worship, in Bhakti standards, would be direct love of god...not even needing a ritual...other forms of worship require certain things...and that goes for any tradition...you wouldnt offer an apple to a Goddess of Death becasue you decided to do that...it would just be innaproprite (a friend of mine once got pissed off and left a ritual at an actual Wiccan temple becasue they offered an apple, a symbol of fertility, to Hecate). I do agree with you to extent however...just you have to know and be careful you know? :). Namaste,

Tobias

[Toby Stimpson]

ohohohohohohohohohoho.....as I was lieing in bed last night I realized that Hinduism has Gods to guard the compas points...so if you wanted to make Invocation and Calling the Watchtowers more Hindu perhaps...try calling to these Guardians...(just a note, in Hindu cosmology, the world is supported by 8 Elephants called the Lokapala Elephants who are ridden by different Gods.)


Northern Qaudrant: Kubera (God of wealth) riding Himapandara
Northeastern qaudrant: Prthivi riding Supratika
Eastern Qaudrant: Indra riding Airavata
South eastern qaudrant: Agni riding Pundarika
Southern qaudrant: Yama riding Vamana
Southwestern qadrant: Surya (Or Nirriti) riding Kumuda
Western Qaudrant: Varuna riding Anja
Northwestern qaudrant: Vayu riding Pushpadanta

There are variations to this but generally these are the Gods and their Lokapala mounts. Hope this was helpful to you :). Namaste

Tobias

[MorningDove030202]

In responce to your example of the friend who got pissed off by an apple, I say different strokes for different folks. An Apple is also a symbol of discord and that sounds like something Hecate would welcome. I see apples as representing the harvest, so that would make sence too, but here's the deal. It only has to make sence to the person offering it. Other's shouldn't judge another's offering. It's also poor ritual manners to just jump up and leave in the middle of a ritual. Sure, if it's not to one's liking, don't go back to that group, but it's just rude to leave. Freedom of religion means that we can believe in God and worship God however we want, and that means we don't have to believe that there is a set right way to worship God X, unless we want to and find that useful. I stand by my previous post. If Gods are so petty that they have to be worshiped one right way, then that's not a God by my defintion. (Not all beings more powerful than us are a God.)

In the tradition of Kirk, and Star Treck.... "What does God need with a ship?"

Dove


Hmmm, seems rather interesting and yes it would be a great resource to have...just for the comparisons. I don't see why you wouldnt be able to call on Hindu gods in a wiccan format, however, I have my misgivings about it. Mainly becasue I myself havn't tried it I wouldnt want to to say "go for it..." without really knowing if it works or not. I mean the last thing you want is to go ahead and then piss of a Deva...hey can be quite ahem, terrible at times. With respect Morningdove...I dont think it is a case of "you can worship however you want." With some deities, the rituals towards Gods are set up so that they create a tunnel of power and there is a right way and a wrong way to perform worship. Some Gods...or the ones I have experianced appreciate the effort to finding out a proper way to worship than to just simply go in and do it however which way you want without really thinking about it. Finding a compfortable way to worship Hindu Gods in a wiccan setting shows that you've looked into things and DO know how to worship properly. Unless there are grievous moral objections...like lets say objection to Human sacrifice (and it HAS happened in hinduism and in other traditions) then you atleats must know a way to get around that without disrespecting a tradition and your own intelligence. The purest form of worship, in Bhakti standards, would be direct love of god...not even needing a ritual...other forms of worship require certain things...and that goes for any tradition...you wouldnt offer an apple to a Goddess of Death becasue you decided to do that...it would just be innaproprite (a friend of mine once got pissed off and left a ritual at an actual Wiccan temple becasue they offered an apple, a symbol of fertility, to Hecate). I do agree with you to extent however...just you have to know and be careful you know? :). Namaste,

Tobias

[Toby Stimpson]

I stand by my opinion as well and to just throw in a debate question here, what if soemone wishes to perform Human sacrifice? Is that a freedom they should have? Or to tone it down a little...do you mnot think it is innapropriate for soemone to offer soemthing that by tradition is wrong to offer? It says in the Wiccan Rede (and I'll use this as an example only) that you should not burn Elder for it is sacred to the Goddess...does that mean that freedom of religion will allow a wiccan to burn elder? Perhaps im just part of that conservative minority that believes you should respect traditions surrounding a certain God...or atleast pay homage to those by incorporating them into your practices. I do admire the fact that the people here are atleast asking the questions and testing things out to see whats right...but I must disagree with you Morningdove that we should just worship how we all see fit...that can only work if you atleast have put the time in to learn the traditional ways and then make an INFORMED chouice to worship in another way. Namaste

Tobias

[MorningDove030202]

Freedom of religion within our leagal rights, and last time I checked no one has a legal right to murder anyone. (Murder and killing being two different things.) As far a burning Elder, go right ahead. I feel that our intuition is the voice of God/ess, and if my intuition says to burn elder, then that's what I'm moved to do. Our own intution should not be limited by what others say the right or more right way is. I encourage people to make informed decisions about their religious practices, but to also not be limited by them. History, other cultures, etc, inspire us, but they do not have the copywrite on God any more than we do. By the same right when following one's intution, it's important to let others know the real orgins of said practice. Don't call something Hindu, if it's realy something that's from one's own intuition or personal gnosis.

Dove

[AdNoctum]

I think one thing that also needs to be kept in mind is that a god may desire different things from different devotees. Traditional forms of worship will not work for everyone, and one person may be legitimately led to worshipping in a non-traditional fashion. Historical, cultural and religious contexts should definitely be taken into heavy consideration when exploring a new pantheon, but they are not inherently superior simply because they're older and "the way things have always been done." This should be true of Wiccans (and everyone, really), whether they follow the Hindu, Greek, Egyptian or Celtic pantheons.

[Toby Stimpson]

I woudl agree with that mopre than your other post Dove, perhaps I was confused as to your meaning. Religious expression and creativity is an important thing, but there is power in atleast finding out a traditional way of practice and perhaps incorporating *some* of those traditions into your practices. I have no qaurrel at all with experimentation as long as you have taken the time to do back ground. I mean it is the same in Wicca...do the back ground on spells first before duiving head long ino it...thats how I see it. You do bring an important point up however, God should not be limited to mere rituels, and that was not what I was getting at all...to keep a God's essance in the world alive we have to allow it to move with the times, which ofcourse means finding new ways of worship...what I was simply getting at was to blindly go into things without any background knowledge. Thankyou for this debate, this was very good as always :D. Namaste!

Tobias

[Witchy Redhead]

quote - If you are influenced by Sanatan Dharma and it fulfills you...and you remain Wiccan however...it doesnt matter what the name of that 'path' is as long as it fulfills you.

I do have a question though, why not the title, Hindu-Wicca? If the title covers all the basis of what you practice, and you are fulfilled, why not the title? It's easier to explain, and I feel as if, as individuals, we are all kinda hybrid in our beliefs in a way, I mean, although many beliefs we have is similar, it's not all identical. Just like the names we come up with for our religious path are not identical.
I have always considered myself Wiccan, and lately since I've been following a path very Hindu based, (calling upon Hindu Goddesses and Gods) and incorporating a similar belief system while still incorporating my Wiccan belief system, why not use the word Hindu-Wiccan.
By someone saying they're wiccan it leaves a broad generalization, don't you think? There's so many ways this wonderful religion can expand......
Peace to you all,

[Toby Stimpson]

Well, I would only argue against a title like thta becasue, again this is a personal feeling, I don't believe it right to claim to be soemthing unless you completly embrace it. One of the definite 'ideals' of Hinduism is the complete embrace and acceptance of the Vedas. If you are taking a single tradition but not embracing the vedas, it is kind of like saying you are Christian but not embracing the Bible. I call myself only hindu becasue I embrace the knowledge of the Vedas...otherwise I would say that I was not Hindu becasue of that. I say I am NeoPagan becasue that is the tradition I grew into...I wouldnt call myself a Hindu Wiccan mainly becasie I feel as though it would degenerate the two traditions. I mean ofcourse it's always personal choice in the titles people give themselves...but Hindu Wicca would, as Peracelsus stated, be going to far for me. If the truth of the world is that there is one underlying truth to all Religions in soem way or form, then the title you give your path doesnt matter...for me though it is a matter of respect. I call myself a Hindu...only...I call myself a pagan...only. Seperating the two traditions so that they may stand alone in my life...instead of mixing together where there could be problems down the road.,,,if you say you are Pagan then there is acceptance, if you call yourself a Hindu there is knowlegde and acceptance...but calling myself a Hindu Wiccan would bring about a question period where people may judge your perticular blend as being false and what not. Thats just my thought. Namaste.

Tobias

[Witchy Redhead]

Tobias-
Although your point is a legit, respectable one, I do feel that if the shoe fits, wear it! As long as the person is fulfilled and they go about using the title in a respectful manner.
(the last thing anyone wants to do is to disrespect Hindu's, Wiccans, or even the Gods and Goddesses themselves.... _tsk_ )
I know that you addressed the fact that there may be some conflicts with conbining the two in the future or so..... if there are conflicts with anyone/anything....isn't the proper thing to be done is to address them much like you would any other matter?
Once again I feel that if someone has a problem combining the two, then of course it won't work.... but if you know in yourself that combining the two works for you...More power to you and good luck to all who choose to incorporate the title "Hindu Wicca"....After all, it is only a title .....
Tobias I enjoy conversating with you.. :colorful:

[Agaliha]

I am not Wiccan...and I'm not Hindu...I don't really have a name for what I believe, but I don't believe everyone/thing needs a title.
I feel a draw and close to some Hindu dieties, Saraswati, being one of them. I do not think She would come in my dream and point me in Her direction if it was for nothing. I have been learning all I can about Her, how She is worshiped and about Hinduism in general. I grew up in a "New Age" home and many of the beliefs I grew up with are of a Hindu/Buddhist nature. My real first name is of Sanskrit origin (it's not a name in Hindi or Sanskrit...but a word...it's an important part of Hinduism and Buddhism...given to me by my father). I know I could never convert and be a Hindu, it's just not for me in this life. I can read the Vedas and other Sacred Texts, worship Saraswati, and be respectful. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I also don't think there is anything wrong with reading the Bible, Qur'an, and anything in between from polytheistic to monothiestic...If Saraswati came into my life, I am not going to ignore Her just because I am not Hindu. Everyone worships the best way they can, I truely think the Gods know that... So am I a Hindu? No. Hindu-Wiccan? No. And I don't think I need to be to follow what I feel is right and best at this time...I hope that makes sense

[Toby Stimpson]

Perhaps this is just a personal choice where we may all be right, or we may all be worng...but we will just have to agree to disagree perhaps? _handclapp I have enjoyed this discussion however, everyone involved have brought up soem interesting points that have made me stop and think lol. Perhaps I feel strongly for this becasue I am such a traditionalist...I mean there is a certain funness about performing rituals that are ancient...and learning how to do them. Ofocurse i would never say "YOU CANNOT DO IT THIS WAY!" As long as there is respect for the exisiting traditions then I am fine...what makes me angry is soemone going out and having misconceptions decides to sacrifice a black cat to kali...on halloween no less! That is my big worry about soem people mixing wicca and Hinduism...is that those who are, shall we say "less knowedgeable" or more "fluffy" when it coesm to both traditions would view that as right...and compeltly disespect the two traditions. Somehow I can never shake that feeling, even with people who are knowedgeable...anwyays, I applaud your comments again. A may I make a comment about the avatars here, at first glance you may think this was an Indian board seeing Saraswati, Gayatri and Durga being used. lol...Nice avatars :D. Namaste

Tobias

[Agaliha]

Thank you, Tobias...

what makes me angry is soemone going out and having misconceptions decides to sacrifice a black cat to kali...on halloween no less!

I noticed you mentioned human sacrifice on another post. I don't think those things are common in America (human sacrifice)...or at least I HOPE they are not!
I would never scarifice any animal or human...and NEVER a cat (I love them dearly).
I understand your worry, but I don't think people would resort to that, especially if they are also following Wicca (Do no harm and Rule of Three). I know there is a small, tiny sect of people in India that eat human flesh (I watched this discovery channel thing about it)-- but you know, not every Indian or Hindu does that. Also there may be groups of people that still sacrifice, but form what I know, it's not the majority. My point is, people know what is right and wrong. In the end I do not think someone who considers themselves attuned to nature and the Gods would kill any living thing in the name of a God or Goddess...

[MorningDove030202]

In the US at least, killing a cat in such a way is considered animal abuse and is illegal. Even if someone is not knowlegable about Hinduism or Wicca, they should know this is wrong. Freedom of religion exists, but not if an act is illegal.
Dove

what makes me angry is soemone going out and having misconceptions decides to sacrifice a black cat to kali...on halloween no less!

[Toby Stimpson]

I disagree...Human sacrifice is well an extreme example...but animal sacrifice is common in some circles. I use it only as an example, an extreme example at that...Even so...that doesnt stop the cliche of little 12 and 13 year old "gothic" wannabes thinking "Oh kali is a devil...we should worship her and kill a black cat on Halloween"...*rolls eyes* Im afraid to say it does happen with young kids unfortunatly...not all but I do speak from firsthand knowledge...I almost killed a few who tried to do that around here...lets say my lecture was, ahem, negetive and demeaning indeed :). they soon went back to Christianity...as they were dabbling to be 'cool and different'...However that beign said, i do tend to argue for arguing sakes lol...so yeah , blah!

[MorningDove030202]

In that case they are using religon as an exuse to do something they know is wrong. They arn't realy practicing that religion, they are playing a game. I would like to know where the parents of the kids in this example where, and how they raised kids who thought it was fun to kill cats. Harming animals strongly suggests that the kids were abused. It's not realy about being Wiccan or Hindu, it's bad parenting.
Dove

I disagree...Human sacrifice is well an extreme example...but animal sacrifice is common in some circles. I use it only as an example, an extreme example at that...Even so...that doesnt stop the cliche of little 12 and 13 year old "gothic" wannabes thinking "Oh kali is a devil...we should worship her and kill a black cat on Halloween"...*rolls eyes* Im afraid to say it does happen with young kids unfortunatly...not all but I do speak from firsthand knowledge...I almost killed a few who tried to do that around here...lets say my lecture was, ahem, negetive and demeaning indeed :). they soon went back to Christianity...as they were dabbling to be 'cool and different'...However that beign said, i do tend to argue for arguing sakes lol...so yeah , blah!

[Agaliha]

In the US at least, killing a cat in such a way is considered animal abuse and is illegal. Even if someone is not knowlegable about Hinduism or Wicca, they should know this is wrong. Freedom of religion exists, but not if an act is illegal.

**
In that case they are using religon as an exuse to do something they know is wrong. They arn't realy practicing that religion, they are playing a game. I would like to know where the parents of the kids in this example where, and how they raised kids who thought it was fun to kill cats. Harming animals strongly suggests that the kids were abused. It's not realy about being Wiccan or Hindu, it's bad parenting.


To totally agree with you, MorningDove.

[Snapdragon]

This seems another place where it is appropriate to bring to people's attention the Sha'can tradition, which explicitly joins the Hindu and Wiccan paths in worship of the "dark goddesses," centrally Kali.

www.maabatakali.org

Blessed Be.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Personally, I do not combine my Krishna worship with my Wiccan ritual. Krishna is rather tolerant, but it just doesn't feel right, and I don't think it serves him or the Wiccan gods very well to conflate the two. At least IME. My philosophy and metaphysics are influenced by Hinduism and Buddhism as well, but as Wicca is more about what you do than what you believe, there's no real conflict (not that there's much conflict inherent in the ideas themselves).

About Hinduism being an umbrella word for Indian religions, I have to say I disagree. Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism are not Hindu religions, though they began in India and are practiced by Indians. In my South Asian religion classes we talked of them as "heterodox religions", particularly Jainism and Buddhism. The defining characteristic that separates them is that they deny the authority of the Vedas. Now, I'm under the impression that Hinduism includes the Indian religions which accept some authority of the Vedas. It's true I haven't studied many of the modern variations of Hinduism, but going by the six traditional darshanas, this seems to be true... It's still an umbrella term, but slightly more defined than just "Indian"... ^_^

And for levity, I refer you to this: http://www.accendi.net/putf/archives/?strip=002 ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[bhaktiman]

Here are some resources for those interested in the connection between Wicca and Hindu deities:

The Indo Pagan Project (http://indopaganproject.tripod.com/)

Shakti Wicca (http://shaktiwicca.tripod.com/index.html)

Bhakti Wicca (http://www.bhaktiwicca.org/)

Samkhya Wicca (http://samkhyawicca.50megs.com/)

For myself, I worship Sri Sri Radha Krishna with all of these essentials of bhakti (japa, prasadam, bhajans, kirtan, simple aarti) within the framework of neo-paganism (casting the circle, calling the quarters, invoking the Lord and Lady). I do not call it Wicca though because while I celebrate the solstices and equinoxes - my view of the rest of the Wheel of the Year is not within the Wiccan framework at this point (so perhaps later when I have reconciled that aspect). I do not believe in a "purist" interpretation of Wicca anyways as Wicca was originally cobbled together by Gardner from an eclectic blend of beliefs and practices from a variety of cultural sources anyways.

[sfreyr]

Both Wicca and Hinduism are words which in my mind call forth a variety of diverse cults.

Hey, Hindu's honour Christ, and Mohammed, just as Christians keep verse in honour of Aten and Lucifer, and celebrations fit for Pagans. The ancestors voices will be carried forward in some form by anyone who listens. Personally, when I see a Ganesh or Ganapati shrine, I usually offer a sweet of some kind (he loves galub-jamans). I take off my shoes and avoid whistling or using my left hand when I'm at a Mundir, just as I touch my head to the ground and say "All my relations" when I'm invited into a sweat lodge. When in Rome...

Besides, if one were initiated into a Hindu cult of priesthood, aswell as a Wicca cult of priesthood (not completely unheard of), it would befit one to keep faith with both, presumably each after their own fashion. So if you're Hindu, and a Wicca, then I guess, in a manner of speaking you would *be* a Hindu Wicca. I guess if you did the cute little head bob thing when you pick up the athame, you could even jokingly say you practice it. lol

How does one properly serve the Gods and ancestors?
Keeping faith with tradition?
Mixed with meeting the needs of today, and you have real life.
Isn't that the real question underneath the question?

[Toby Stimpson]

Personally I really am very much, not so much against but critical of Wicca and Hinduism coming together as a path. I spoke to Devi, who is currently in charge of the Indo Pagan project, way back and am on her Yahoo group and I respect her views but I disagree that Wicca and Hinduism should combine. It can, but the critical question is would it be valid, would it be correct? I am a Pagan, and I am a Hindu...I also honour Lod Buddha and could be said to be Buddhist as well. All of these different parts combine for me in a way that each teaches me different things. But do i consider myself a person who crosses them all...do I use a wiccan cermony to honour Shiva? No...am I opposed to the idea? I find it a little strange to be honest.

[moonmorgan]

Hey to those who are interested in merging Hinduism with Wicca, here's a website I just ran across:
http://samkhyawicca.50megs.com/

[devadasi1dasi1]

I think neo-pagan interest in the Hindu gods and goddesses is awesome, and I understand the allure... nowhere other than India is there an unbroken chain of continual polytheism and goddess worship.


As a former neo-pagan (eclectic wicca) who is currently living in India and practicing a semi- orthodox Hinduism however ( I say semi orthodox since I was born without a caste... and therefor stand, for this life at least, on the outside looking in) I can say the chance of this religions merging to any real extent is virtually nil.


I think the primary and most important differences lie in attitudes toward and roles of women. In neo-paganism and wicca, women have an almost exalted status. thats anything but the case when it comes to Hinduism. In addition menstrual taboos in Hinduism are extreme. I recal taking part in a Dianic ceremony in the early1990's where I was annointed with menstrual blood. In India an entire temple would be completely despoiled where I to enter it while menstruating.

I personally don't go in for the whole unclean woman thing.... and I still take care of my PERSONAL puja cabinet even during my moontime.... but I respect the views of the women BORN Hindus enough to stay out of the temples during this time.


This is just the most OVERT of the differences I can see.... but there are many more and they run deep.

I see no problem with neo-pagans venerating Hindu gods or practicing puja or whatever...... but it is very different from being a practicing Hindu.

Niether one being more valid than the other of course. what matters is our love for God and living that Truth

[Baobabtree]

I think the primary and most important differences lie in attitudes toward and roles of women. In neo-paganism and wicca, women have an almost exalted status. thats anything but the case when it comes to Hinduism. . I'd have to disagree with you there. Though some variants of Hinduism do discriminate against women to a small extent, many others (especially Shaktism) hold women to a fairly exalted status (especially mothers).That being said, almost all orthodox Hindu traditions believe it is taboo for women to visit temples while they are menstruating.

[Agaliha]

:lol: Old thread! This was one of the first I posted to, I think. Glad to see some more discussion about it :)

[devadasi1dasi1]

I suppose im percieving it differently. In shaktism the GODDESS certainly has exalted status.... but in all practicality this seldom applies to human women here. And the discrimination against women in Hindu society is anything but "a small extent". I have to live it every day. When I applied for my cell phone I was given a seperate application from the one a man recieves.... mine had a section asking for the signature of my "gaurdian". it was explained to me that this meant my "husband or father". This same exercise was repeated when I applied for electrical power.... obtained an appartment... applied for natural gas and applied for art classes.

Women here in "Hindustan" are considered "property" of a man to an only slightly lesser extent than in Islam. When a woman bears a child there are celebratory rituals with chanting brahmins and puja is made if a son is born. If a daughter is born nothing of the sort happens. Female infanticide rates are through the roof over here.... and not just among the lower castes or the poor. Educated women exist almost exclusively in the upper classes as educating a female is a "luxury".... educating a male a "necessity.


Women in the west talk about sexism, but Im living it. Anything I say in the presence of a man is patronized. Don't get me wrong though... I LOVE india or I wouldn't live here.... and I find Hinduism very spiritually rewarding or I wouldn't have converted. I follow the Saivist and shakti path... and am a kind of "apprentice" to a priestess of Kali here in Chennai..... but her priesthood, being niether Brahmin, nor male... is not recognized legally or by orthodox Hindu doctrine.


Books about Hinduismn written for westerners may give a different impression.... and one living in the west and drawn to this path may not want to hear it..... but women are of no higher status than underage children here... and their intelligence no more respected.

So why did I move here? Im a temple dancer....... I study bharatantyam for three hours per day seven days a week. I love my life. dance is my prayer.

[devadasi1dasi1]

let me also ad that the "exalted status " of mothers applies only to the mothers of sons. Mothers who have several daughters and no sons are in fact considereded cursed and inauspicious. In addition, keep in mind that some of this "exalted" stuff applies only to mothers ( as opposed to scholarly, doctoral, or financially independent and successful women ) because mothers are the group of women most assured to be under the dominance of a man.

[Baobabtree]

And the discrimination against women in Hindu society is anything but "a small extent". I have to live it every day. When I applied for my cell phone I was given a seperate application from the one a man recieves.... mine had a section asking for the signature of my "gaurdian". it was explained to me that this meant my "husband or father". This same exercise was repeated when I applied for electrical power.... obtained an appartment... applied for natural gas and applied for art classes.
But that's Indian society, not Hindu society. India is certainly a Hindu majority country, but that doesn't mean its society is composed entirely of Hindus, or influenced only by Hinduism. That being said I'm fairly certain these prejudices are fairly common amongst Indian Hindus, but when I said Though some variants of Hinduism do discriminate against women to a small extent I'm referring to the teachings of these actual traditions as opposed to the general consensus amongst its practitioners.

than in Islam. Again something I think is debatable.

Women in the west talk about sexism, but Im living it. Anything I say in the presence of a man is patronized. Don't get me wrong though... I LOVE india or I wouldn't live here.... and I find Hinduism very spiritually rewarding or I wouldn't have converted. I follow the Saivist and shakti path... and am a kind of "apprentice" to a priestess of Kali here in Chennai..... but her priesthood, being niether Brahmin, nor male... is not recognized legally or by orthodox Hindu doctrine. My heart goes out to you, and I'm glad you find Hinduism spiritually fulfilling.