That's it if it crawls or slithers its dead......

[Hærfest Leah]

Vent: I have killed a snake, mouse and several spiders this year and to beat all I went to tend to my strawberry plants last night and saw a hole at the base and thought I saw something in it. So I took my spade and turned out the hole and a damn brown recluse crawled out and so smashed to bits, like the 4th one this yr we've killed. I have never lived somewhere that had so many spiders it's sick, we have all kinds. And I still can't catch the damn mole in the yard we've been after for 2 years, no mole catching method works.

I am going around the house today and I swear inside or out if it crawls its dead. I saw a 2nd snake (this yr) last week as it went in a mole tunnel, I hope I see it again because its gone too. We killed 2 last yr too, one a baby my husband ran over with the lawnmower. I'm about afraid to let my kids outside.

I won't however touch the lizards or frogs that play in the yard. The bunnies I don't mind but our dog did catch one early one morning in our garden and killed it before I could stop him.

[MoonDust]

:hugz: I'm so sorry you're freaked out. We currently have ants and there're mice in the backyard because of some chickens my aunt has. And the feed attracts them. Some have tried to sneak in and they have had to cross over.
As much as I love animals mice freak me out. I admit I'm a total girl! I scream, and jump out of the way, and refuse to let my feet touch the floor until someone's caught it.

[CrystalmoonOceanstar]

:huddle: its ok MoonDust and Seapearls i know how you feel i am the same way with roches! i hate them! and we have the all over the place where i live. you are bound to see one to two in the yard and the ickie thing is they come into the house! i have to spray raid and bug killers at the door steps to keep most of them out but there is that one big one that always gets by.

[Old Witch]

I herded a 15 inch long little corn snake out of my house with my staff Sat. morning....

Y'all, snakes are an important part of the ecology, you just can't go around indiscriminately killing 'em. You kill the snakes, the field mouse population will explode...

[ap Dafydd]

I herded a 15 inch long little corn snake out of my house with my staff Sat. morning....

Y'all, snakes are an important part of the ecology, you just can't go around indiscriminately killing 'em. You kill the snakes, the field mouse population will explode...

Snakes are a long standing Pagan symbol as well, wish there were some in my garden, not too many though otherwise they'd eat all the frogs.

Keep them out of the house by all means, but what's wrong with them living in the garden?

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[Hærfest Leah]

Keep them out of the house by all means, but what's wrong with them living in the garden?

Ffred

The fact that ours is inside our fenced in yard where my kids play and my husband is deathly afraid of snakes. I don't care where they are as long as they do not come anywhere near my family. Anywhere in the yard is too close.

[SphinYote]

I HOPE you're only killing poisonous snakes. :(

If not, you just lost your mouse population control.

Have fun when the hordes of rats and mice take over.

I'm sorry. I find this post extremely upsetting... The fact that people are willing to kill something harmless because they are afraid of it for NO GOOD REASON. Kind of like innocent old ladies accused of evil forms of witchcraft and being burnt at the stake.

I'm crying right now.... I sincerely hope that they were poisonous snakes because that is the only way this can be even remotely justified. If they were harmless, then the return karma of hordes of rodents is only fitting.

Don't get me wrong, Seaofpearls. I know you are otherwise a good person, but I just get so upset when I see posts like this, I don't understand how people can do this...WHY does fear take people over like this. It terrifies me. Even though I know it's common, it's just another facet of what I mentioned above.

I don't know if I should even post this, it is not intended as a flame against you, but a byproduct of my own fear of the ways irrational fears make people in general act. I don't understand it, I sincerely don't.

Perhaps I'm guilty of the same thing, fearing what I don't understand...:(

[SphinYote]

I need to add, maybe emphasize I don't know, I'm not mad at any individual who does this. I do understand how strong fears lead to this. I guess it's just a reminder of the kind of world we live in.

It's a reminder of the social indoctrination from infancy that leads to this fear and violence. I feel sorry for your husband, that he's such a victim of this kind of indoctrination, that you all feel you have to kill something perfectly harmless.

And as I'm writing this in some respects I'm sickened by my own hypocrisy.

I don't know why this has suddenly struck such a strong chord with me, usually I read posts like this with only a minimum of feeling. I don't know why this one in particular so upset me. I want to say so much more, but I'm for some reason hurting so much right now that I don't think I could without writing something I'll regret.

I'm not sure that later I won't already regret what I wrote, I know that you don't deserve the intensity of this post seaofpearls. Again, it's not directed at you. But I can't not say anything either.

Sorry. I'm just confused. Curiously angry at myself, both for saying anything at all and for even having the desire to not say anything. I'd be mad at myself no matter what action I take right now, but silence feels more wrong...

[Valnorran]

If the snake is in the yard and poisonous, I kill it. I have killed some harmless ones mistaking them for vipers and felt kind of bad about it. There is some species of harmless black snake we have here that is about 98% identical to a cottonmouth. I guess it's some sort of rat snake. I need to get a pair of long tongs so I can transport the harmless ones out into the fields. I also killed a six foot chicken snake, but at the time we had several kittens and I figured this snake was big enough to eat them. Ever summer we get these huge spiders that are locally known as bannana spiders due to their black and yellow coloring. The good thing about them is they stay in their webs and pretty much mind their own business. As much as I hate them, I only kill them if they make their webs someplace people have to walk. Transporting them does no good, as they'll come right back to the exact same spot and make a new web. Some of them have gotten into the Guinness Book of World Records for having the largest single web.

[Felis Sorror]

We have moles really bad, and that's the only reason my dad let's me keep two outside cats. Both are excellent mole catchers. ^^; And we had mice in the house for awhile, which my darling little calico will not go after. XD We had to get mousetraps, cause she was completely ignoring their presence. ^^;

[John_Mischief]

I do kill spiders if I see them crawling around in my house, but if they're outside and away from me, or up high in webs, I leave them alone. We don't get really venomous ones here, so it's not a concern.

I don't see the point in killing harmless snakes. I mean, poisonous ones sure (though I'd think it better to call animal control; they can sometimes use the venom from captured snakes, I think) but just grass or corn snakes never hurt anyone and are good pest controllers. I think hoping you see the snake again so you can kill is somewhat gruesome, personally.

There's not much difference between a rabbit and a corn snake in the yard except that the snake is helpful, where the rabbit can cause crop damage.

[winterrosewaitin]

I live on waterfront property so we have posion water snakes, so the neighbors usually shoot them. I have a great fear of snakes so I have convinced myself that the water snakes are the only ones here!! I don't go in the water, but my kids and grand kids do.
I have killed some spiders if they are on me, because I freak out and it's just a reaction I guess. I don't know what kind of spiders these are, but as long a they stay in thier webs I'm fine.
I really do feel bad tho when the snakes are killed, but it is for our safety.

[enchancea]

Most snakes will avoid human contact by all means possible. I always make lots of noise when I am out in the garden that way any snakes that are there will leave. I understand your need to try to protect your children but most snakes wouldnt harm them. And children usually make alot of nosie when playing outside so Im pretty sure the snake would take off in a different direction. As far as spiders go Im am terribly afraid of them and I only kill the ones in the house that look like they could do damage to me or my pets if we were to get bitten. Spiders outside dont get touched. I dont like them but I scare them away with a shovel or something. As much as I dont like them I understand that they help keep the population of the more annoying bugs (such as ants) under control. Same with snakes. They keep the mose and rat population down. I would think thats mice and rats are more of a threat to your children. Unlike snakes they dont always run away from people and I have been bit by one of my pet rats and it hurts like hell.

[Hærfest Leah]

Most snakes will avoid human contact by all means possible. I always make lots of noise when I am out in the garden that way any snakes that are there will leave. I understand your need to try to protect your children but most snakes wouldnt harm them. And children usually make alot of nosie when playing outside so Im pretty sure the snake would take off in a different direction. As far as spiders go Im am terribly afraid of them and I only kill the ones in the house that look like they could do damage to me or my pets if we were to get bitten. Spiders outside dont get touched. I dont like them but I scare them away with a shovel or something. As much as I dont like them I understand that they help keep the population of the more annoying bugs (such as ants) under control. Same with snakes. They keep the mose and rat population down. I would think thats mice and rats are more of a threat to your children. Unlike snakes they dont always run away from people and I have been bit by one of my pet rats and it hurts like hell.

I have a web site of missouri snakes so we can make sure what the poisinous ones look like after the one we had to kill a few months ago. We had a non poisonous one in our garage after we moved in, I had my neighbor come get it and take it out into the field to let it go. The mouse I killed last week was the 1st one I had seen the 2 yrs we lived here, maybe that's why. lol

[Valnorran]

I always make lots of noise when I am out in the garden that way any snakes that are there will leave.
No they won't. Snakes are nearly deaf. They can only hear low frequency sounds. They can feel vibrations on whatever surface they're on. It's been my experience that snakes don't seem particularly bothered by a human presence.

[SphinYote]

Most snakes will avoid human contact by all means possible. I always make lots of noise when I am out in the garden that way any snakes that are there will leave. I understand your need to try to protect your children but most snakes wouldnt harm them. And children usually make alot of nosie when playing outside so Im pretty sure the snake would take off in a different direction. As far as spiders go Im am terribly afraid of them and I only kill the ones in the house that look like they could do damage to me or my pets if we were to get bitten. Spiders outside dont get touched. I dont like them but I scare them away with a shovel or something. As much as I dont like them I understand that they help keep the population of the more annoying bugs (such as ants) under control. Same with snakes. They keep the mose and rat population down. I would think thats mice and rats are more of a threat to your children. Unlike snakes they dont always run away from people and I have been bit by one of my pet rats and it hurts like hell.

OK, feeling a bit more...in control and logical, so maybe I'll contribute something practical rather than letting my PMS override my better sense:

Ehcanacea is correct. Mice and rats can have rabies, likwise Hanta virus. Their fleas carry Bubonic Plague, fortunately for the most part that stays dormant in the fleas (no one really know shat causes it to "activate" so to speak, but we certainly know the historical results and it's in most rodent fleas).

Snakes eat moles too. You want to get rid of your mole population, killing the snakes is not the way to go about doing it.

And here is some advice:

The best way to get rid of a fear is to learn all you can about it and face it.

In this case: read books. Learn to ID what' posionous and what's not. Learn which ones are helpful, which ones could potentially cause harm.

Watch a PBS special (not one of the over-dramaitized 10 most dangerous animals specials either, that's about the worst way to go about doing it...)

Take your husband to the zoo to see snakes. Occasionally they might have an event where you can go up and touch the snakes. We have an event with our summer reading program where we invite a guy who raises snakes to come and talk about them with the kids. Last year I was able to hold the Boa Constrictoor (20 ft long), draped over my shoulders and along my arms, so the kids could come up and touch it and see it up close.

I will say this about my personal standpoint, and it might help to understand that I don't see any qualitative difference between people and animals. I don't see people as better than animals. I do see us as having a responsibility to use our logic to get over instinctive fears that do more harm than good. Snakes are afraid of people, and only act in self defence, at what they percieve as a threat. YOU are doing the same. The difference is, YOU have more ability than a snake to learn to tell the subtle difference between a real threat and a harmless garter snake. And I believe ALL OF US have the responsibility to USE that ability.

You worry about your children and your husbnad. I applaud you for that. But, you are capable of learning what is harmless and what is a threat. Instead, you are killing them indiscriminately.

You aren't stupid, ignorance is not an excuse.

If you are afraid that your husband's fear will have a bad effect on his health, if his fear is that bad, then he needs counselling. If I had that strong of a fear of anything, then I'd have a responsibility to myself to get help. If his fear is anything less than that, his fear can't be used as an excuse either.

OK, I've had my say. I know most people don't want to hear their actions criticized, particularly when they are done in defense of children, family. I do apologise for the circumstances, but...I can't stand by and not say anything. I can't live with myself knowing that this is happening, and doing nothing. I stand by and do nothing all to often.

I'll put down one last thought. People are hurt by dogs, cats, and other domesticated animals far more than they are by snakes. By the logic of "But they're a threat to my family" we should all be killing puppies and kittens.

I'm a cat and dog lover, and frankly I too would have a stronger emotional reaction if confronted with that too. But when it comes down to it, there's little qualitative difference except that they are pets and cute and fuzzy.

[SphinYote]

It looks like we cross-posted.

Kudos to you for doing the research and having the one removed rather than killed.

[Valnorran]

I have a web site of missouri snakes so we can make sure what the poisinous ones look like after the one we had to kill a few months ago.
Well, if you're in Missouri I'd guess your poisonous ones are rattlers, copperheads, and cottonmouths. Cottonmouths (AKA water moccasins) are aquatic. You rarely run across them away from water. We have a lot of them here in Louisiana and I've seen two color variations. One is flat black, like a bicycle tire. The other is black with a very muddy brown pattern down the back. They're most easily identified by their heads. Seen from above, a cottonmouth's head will look almost exactly like an ace of spades. They have reputations for nasty dispositions, but I don't know if it's true. Based on a few close encounters I've had in which not only was I not bitten, it didn't even hiss at me, I suspect their bad reputations are a bit exagerrated. However, their bites are extremely painful, and while deaths are rare, amputation of the bitten limb is fairly common due to the massive tissue damage the venom inflicts. Copperheads are easily identified. They have a tan skin with (you guessed it) copper colored splotches that are more or less diamond shaped running down the back. They, too, have a perfectly triangular head. Their skins are quite beautiful and blend in magnificently with dead leaves. However, if they're not among dead leaves they're easily spotted. Their dispositions are generally placid. You just about have to step on one to get bitten. I'm not sure what species of rattlers might be in Missouri, but remember: rattlers do NOT always rattle a warning.

[~*Ginger*~]

No they won't. Snakes are nearly deaf. They can only hear low frequency sounds. They can feel vibrations on whatever surface they're on. It's been my experience that snakes don't seem particularly bothered by a human presence.
Interesting, in Alabama, at our grandparents we were always told not to go into the heavy grassy area's, but if we did we should stamp our feet, and clap our hands to run the snakes out of our path...

[John_Mischief]

Interesting, in Alabama, at our grandparents we were always told not to go into the heavy grassy area's, but if we did we should stamp our feet, and clap our hands to run the snakes out of our path...

They can feel the vibrations on the earth, so that's why stamping drives them away. I'm not sure if the clapping does anything.

[Valnorran]

Interesting, in Alabama, at our grandparents we were always told not to go into the heavy grassy area's, but if we did we should stamp our feet, and clap our hands to run the snakes out of our path...
Stamping your feet could work, because they'll feel the vibration, but I'm continually amazed at how often a snake will let me get almost on top of it, and sometimes even then it won't flee.

[~*Ginger*~]

It is very possible that dealing with lots of land and very small children that they hoped to accomplish both keeping the snakes away from us, and finding a clapping child, if it got lost. (that thought just occured to me...)

[enchancea]

No they won't. Snakes are nearly deaf. They can only hear low frequency sounds. They can feel vibrations on whatever surface they're on. It's been my experience that snakes don't seem particularly bothered by a human presence.
Yeah I didnt mean yelling or anything like that. I meant stomping, hitting the ground with something as you walk, etc.... I should have been more specific. And alot snakes are bothered by human presence. At least here they are. They either slither away or curl up in the striking pose.

[Old Witch]

Well, if you're in Missouri I'd guess your poisonous ones are rattlers, copperheads, and cottonmouths. Cottonmouths (AKA water moccasins) are aquatic. You rarely run across them away from water. We have a lot of them here in Louisiana and I've seen two color variations. One is flat black, like a bicycle tire. The other is black with a very muddy brown pattern down the back. They're most easily identified by their heads. Seen from above, a cottonmouth's head will look almost exactly like an ace of spades. They have reputations for nasty dispositions, but I don't know if it's true. Based on a few close encounters I've had in which not only was I not bitten, it didn't even hiss at me, I suspect their bad reputations are a bit exagerrated. However, their bites are extremely painful, and while deaths are rare, amputation of the bitten limb is fairly common due to the massive tissue damage the venom inflicts. Copperheads are easily identified. They have a tan skin with (you guessed it) copper colored splotches that are more or less diamond shaped running down the back. They, too, have a perfectly triangular head. Their skins are quite beautiful and blend in magnificently with dead leaves. However, if they're not among dead leaves they're easily spotted. Their dispositions are generally placid. You just about have to step on one to get bitten. I'm not sure what species of rattlers might be in Missouri, but remember: rattlers do NOT always rattle a warning.

I knew a Copperhead once, most laid back snake I've ever seen. It lived on my back porch one winter, water heater is out there, snake decided to live behind it. Told the kids to go out the other back door and in the spring it hung around a bit on the cool concrete back stoop, then disappeared....