Druidic Witch?

[Faidh]

I recently read an essay comparing Druidism and Wicca. Although I am a witch, I discovered there were a lot of things mentioned with Druidism that resonated with me. My question is this - is there a successful blending of the two philosophies? I love Wiccan rituals (I love the freedom it presents), and would like to incorporate Druidic principles. Any ideas or suggestions would be helpful.

[StormVixen]

there is a book called druidcraft i think... you could type it in the mw amazon search thing...

[Dave the Druid]

There are some, similarities. The book, Faidh suggests is a good one. As to blending the two? In the name of openess and respect for all and to quote the Rede, "An it harm none, do a thou wilt."

[John_Mischief]

There isn't really a reason you couldn't add some some Druidic principals to your practice of witchcraft - though if you do I'd hesitate to call it Druidry.

[Dave the Druid]

What I didn't say before, I was a bit rushed, was that in the panoply of today's paganism it would be acceptable as John said to mix Wicca and Druidry but becareful what you call it. As a rapidly greying Druid I take exception at the mixing of the two. I'm not saying it's wrong it just gets up my nose. I have Wiccan friends who are certain we are similar but very different indeed. That is why for instance, when I see a pentacle I assume Wicca, rightly or wrongly. It is Not IMHO a Druid symbol.

[blackroseivy]

No, it's Middle Eastern in origin. That's why I'm not sure what to do with the beautiful pentacle I made back when I was Wiccan; it's just not something I can bear to sell...

The DruidCraft has a Tarot deck out; they also have a website.

[Dave the Druid]

I did not know that!
Still the Wiccan's have used it extensively so I have trouble seeing it as Druid. I prefer to go with Ogham, Runes or animals as symbols and tryskelions and ....
Is it in the Tarot deck? Just wondering

[Faidh]

Thanks everyone. I will definately check out the book. I have found it and it looks intersting.

I certainly would not presume to call myself anything "Druid". I simply would like to incorporate some philosophies into my already existing practice. I realized I would have a lot of learning to do before I could consider that title!

I find the tenets interesting (and much like the Bushido code), and it resonates more than "do what thou will" - right and wrong are still right and wrong, regardless if I want to do it. I should be striving to do right at all times, regardless of whom it harms. In reality, everything I do affects someone anyway.

[blackroseivy]

I so agree with what you said there!

AS to the Tarot... well, I am a dyed-in-the-wool Celtic purist, but something about later Mystery traditions still holds me in thrall, such as Alchemy & Ceremonial Magic (though I've never practiced this!!); seeing as so many centuries have passed, & are so full of interesting things, I don't feel limited to strictly Celtic practices. Then, of course, Runes are themselves Norse... As such, I use Ogham rather than Norse runes.

Just a few thoughts...!

Oh - & what were you wondering was "in the deck"? Not sure what you meant!

[Ron]

Still the Wiccan's have used it extensively so I have trouble seeing it as Druid. Wait, let me try to understand that. You are saying that you hav difficulty seeing a pentagram with a circle around it as Druidic, on the grounds that "[Wiccans] have used it extensively" ?

:seehearsp

Then why not view all sexual intercourse as "slutty", on the grounds that sluts have often abused it? (Excuse the vulgarness of the subject.)

Then why not view all women as lesbians, on the grounds that lesbians are often women?

Then why not view all right-to-left languages as "ancient", on the grounds that some are?

Then why not view all USAmericans as imbeciles, on the grounds that their government is sadly controlled by a wild pack of them?

Then why not view all dualistic theology as "Wiccan", on the grounds that neo-Wicca is dualistic?

Then why not view France as a pacifist nation, on the grounds that it did not invade Iraq?

Then why not view all Chr-stians as Catholics, on the ground that there are a lot of Orthodox Catholics.

If I may be so bold ― so rude ― the foundation of your [Dave] reasoning sets out the blueprints for a servely blind view of the World, unnessescarily, in mine opinion.

Merry moot. :p :grrrrr:

[edit] Not that I do not respect your values... :)

[Ladyvi]

the crafting of magick can be found in its various forms amongst the paths and belief systems. witchcraft has little to do with religion or belief structure. though entreating divine energies is often used in spell craft. im too tired to come up with the dynamics of the differences in the use of energies in the various paths and belief systems and whats used as a focus. what tangeants are used to prescribe or programn the energies for a desired change. druids in my opinion tend to use less tangeants than most paths of working magick and less ceremony. more the alchemist way than anything. not all druids can craft magick. not all magick druids can work with. circumstances, geisa, and other mitigating factors go into this. crafting magick also has little to do with druidism. druids seek to match the correct 'ingrediant', circumstances and cause to create universal flow of manifestation. that is not necessarily done through witchcraft. it could be. but most of the time not the case.

[Twig]

Here is a discussion (and debate) that has ranged for longer than any of us have been alive I belive.

I immersed myself in wicca and witchcraft (among other things) for a short while and I think i can give an objective opinion about it.

yes there are basic similarities as there is with most every other earth based religion. Are the tenants of druidry a direct reflection in wicca? Not really.

First off is the Feeling involved. While Wicca has a distinctively matronly feel about it, druidry is more masculine, and I feel, a balance to the triple aspect of the Mother.

Secondly, witchcraft tends to address the Spirits more directly whereas the druid faith uses the elements of the earth as intermediaries (sp) when calling to the Gods.

Third, the pantheon of the druid is specific to England, Ireland and I'm sure you Scots would argue that your Gods are unique also! hehe.

And Lastly, we were called to be stewards and protectors of the Earth millinia ago. A post we still take very seriously.

Now mind you, these are the thoughts of a cutting edge Neo-druid. ;) There is many more differances such as the fact druids were the lawyers, doctors, judges, etc. The list goes on. But dinners on and I'm hungry!

Peace,
Twig

[Phi]

Here is a discussion (and debate) that has ranged for longer than any of us have been alive I belive.

I immersed myself in wicca and witchcraft (among other things) for a short while and I think i can give an objective opinion about it.

yes there are basic similarities as there is with most every other earth based religion. Are the tenants of druidry a direct reflection in wicca? Not really.

First off is the Feeling involved. While Wicca has a distinctively matronly feel about it, druidry is more masculine, and I feel, a balance to the triple aspect of the Mother.

Secondly, witchcraft tends to address the Spirits more directly whereas the druid faith uses the elements of the earth as intermediaries (sp) when calling to the Gods.

Third, the pantheon of the druid is specific to England, Ireland and I'm sure you Scots would argue that your Gods are unique also! hehe.

And Lastly, we were called to be stewards and protectors of the Earth millinia ago. A post we still take very seriously.

Now mind you, these are the thoughts of a cutting edge Neo-druid. ;) There is many more differances such as the fact druids were the lawyers, doctors, judges, etc. The list goes on. But dinners on and I'm hungry!

Peace,
Twig

Twig,
"Druidry is more masculine?"
Now why did you go and say that?
It is not masculine at all to me.

[odubhain]

Twig,
"Druidry is more masculine?"
Now why did you go and say that?
It is not masculine at all to me.

I think the key is in the word "more" and not in that Druidry itself being masculine only. To me Druidry is more accepting of a balance of both masculine and feminine while Wicca is not.

Searles

[Dave the Druid]

Brother you creep!
:yayah:
Leaving us for food, indeed!

Ron, was that really necessary? You may be correct, but I have my pecadillos and a vain attempt to be symolically sperate from Wiccans is one of mine.
I've had this happen more than once...

"Nice pentacle"
"Thanks"
"Witch?"
"No, Druid"
"I thought Witches were the ones who wore that....."

If we are different then we need to identify ourselves as different. IMO.

[Nantonos]

No, it's Middle Eastern in origin.

Interesting - can you point me to a source on that? When does it date from?

[blackroseivy]

OOOOOOOOOH!! I MUST look for the picture I traced it to, I'm not sure where it was!!! But I *believe* that it appears in the Hand of Fatima, I think it was *around* the 10th century or so. Let me see if I can find that reference!

AHAH!! My good ol' encyclopedaic "Symbols & Thier Meanings" by Jack Tresidder has quite a bit on it! Here is what it says about its origins:

"The PENTAGRAM is an ancient geometric symbol of harmony, health & mystic powers - a five-pointed star with lines that cross to each point. When used in magic rituals, this sign is usually called a PENTACLE. The pentagram seems to have originated in Mesopotamia 4,000 years ago, probably as an astronomical plot of the movements of the planet Venus. It is thought to have been the figure used on the Seal of Solomon & was the official seal of Jerusalem c.300-c150 BC [sic - why don't they say BCE?!]. In Greece, the Pythagoreans adopted it as an emblem of health & mystic harmony. From this point on, the pentagram steadily aquired occult meaning, medival sorcerers associating it with Solomon's reputed powers over nature & the spirit world."

There's tons more, but that's the gist. Hope it interests! :D

[Dave the Druid]

OOOOOOOOOH!! I MUST look for the picture I traced it to, I'm not sure where it was!!! But I *believe* that it appears in the Hand of Fatima, I think it was *around* the 10th century or so. Let me see if I can find that reference!

AHAH!! My good ol' encyclopedaic "Symbols & Thier Meanings" by Jack Tresidder has quite a bit on it! Here is what it says about its origins:

"The PENTAGRAM is an ancient geometric symbol of harmony, health & mystic powers - a five-pointed star with lines that cross to each point. When used in magic rituals, this sign is usually called a PENTACLE. The pentagram seems to have originated in Mesopotamia 4,000 years ago, probably as an astronomical plot of the movements of the planet Venus. It is thought to have been the figure used on the Seal of Solomon & was the official seal of Jerusalem c.300-c150 BC [sic - why don't they say BCE?!]. In Greece, the Pythagoreans adopted it as an emblem of health & mystic harmony. From this point on, the pentagram steadily aquired occult meaning, medival sorcerers associating it with Solomon's reputed powers over nature & the spirit world."

There's tons more, but that's the gist. Hope it interests! :D

Really nice work Danubhe! _handclapp

[druidjedi]

I recently read an essay comparing Druidism and Wicca. Although I am a witch, I discovered there were a lot of things mentioned with Druidism that resonated with me. My question is this - is there a successful blending of the two philosophies? I love Wiccan rituals (I love the freedom it presents), and would like to incorporate Druidic principles. Any ideas or suggestions would be helpful.

hi yes the books called druidcraft by philip carr gomm very good book hope this helps :yourock:

[ancestral_lee]

Third, the pantheon of the druid is specific to England, Ireland and I'm sure you Scots would argue that your Gods are unique also! hehe.

England? i think that must be a mistake - you are surely referring to wales




And Lastly, we were called to be stewards and protectors of the Earth millinia ago. A post we still take very seriously.

Twig

do you have a reference for this?

[Dave the Druid]

twig's omission of Cymru was no doubt an oversite but to include England is also correct. Consider if you will Sulli of Bath, not to mention the many of local importance in Cornwall as well as the South.

[wolfchild]

Ok everyine, I know I'm a new uneducated type (so far) but I sense some serious "passion" {Dave} that, even though probably justified, seems unlikely to accomplish much. I never preach (don't feel I have the right) but I started out my spiritual search with wiccan studies, did not agree with various aspects, moved to traditional Tarot, foud my nich there for a couple years (happily, and if you would be so kind Danube to point me in the direction of Druid Tarot I would be ever so Gratefu!) and now feel in my very soul that the direction I need to seek is to learn more of the Druid ways, and paths.

I digress, if one being a free agent chooses to intertwine Wiccan and Druid ways, that is wholly their choice, but if you feel you need permission, I'm thinking pray....

[odubhain]

England? i think that must be a mistake - you are surely referring to wales




do you have a reference for this?There are historical reports of Druids being in Britain, Ireland and Gaul and all the various parts of those geographical areas. The area that is now England is almost certainly had Druids in it at one time. I know it has many modern Druids in it today. Usually, classical authors refer to Britain and Gaul when discussing Druids, while Irish literature is filled with references. Modern Druid orders seem to have been mainly English originated while many of the later ones have sprung up in France, Brittany and even the Americas.

Searles

[Nantonos]

twig's omission of Cymru was no doubt an oversite but to include England is also correct. Consider if you will Sulli of Bath, not to mention the many of local importance in Cornwall as well as the South.

The omission of France, Switzerland, and Belgium (if we are using the modern names for thos areas) was also a bit of an oversight. But yes, the area now called England is correctly included there.

[Llygada]

i'd like to see this essay if you don't mind

[Dave the Druid]

Nantonos,
Sorry Brother, I was very short sighted not to include thoses areas as well

[Dave the Druid]

i'd like to see this essay if you don't mind

Which essay?

[Nantonos]

Nantonos,
Sorry Brother, I was very short sighted not to include thoses areas as well

No problem, just adding more info and clarifying. Its actually quite common to see peoople assuming that the current Celtic rim was also the Celtic heartland in historical and proto-historical times; its as well to clear that up.

[ancestral_lee]

its also worth pointing out that Wicca and 'modern' druidry which is the most common form were created by the close friends Gardener and the other chap - ross nichols i think - who founded OBOD., they discussed a lot and exchanged ideas. druidic rituals you will find in more recent literature grew up alongside wiccan ones.

go back to a recon viewpoint and they are very different. i guess they appear simliar as the guys who reinvented them were mates and were using similar sources.

[Sea Ash]

I is there a successful blending of the two philosophies? I love Wiccan rituals (I love the freedom it presents), and would like to incorporate Druidic principles. Any ideas or suggestions would be helpful.

Greetings Faidh,
I don't see why not...I incorporate several faiths into my path. Though I am more Druidess than anything, there's also my wiccan part which allows me to spread myself out in a few other directions that call to me.
All you have to do is study and things will fall into place for you. When I first went through my "birth", I found it refreshingly familiar and natural when it came to ritual and nature. I followed my heart. The wisest thing you can do is to follow yours.

Blessings,
Sea Ash

~We are what we know~

[wolfchild]

Following your heart is definately the right thing to do!

[blackroseivy]

Always.

[KindredSoul]

Did not know that there was such a creature, can someone provide reference to this in old irish literature? :hmmmmm:

[odubhain]

Did not know that there was such a creature, can someone provide reference to this in old irish literature? :hmmmmm:It'd help to know what you're referencing, What creature?

Searles

[KindredSoul]

Drudic Witch

I recently read an essay comparing Druidism and Wicca also is there a successful blending of the two philosophies, these are a couple of the statements by Faigh

I was wondering where she is reading this stuff, would like to check this out.

:seehearsp

[CromanMacNessa]

Did not know that there was such a creature, can someone provide reference to this in old irish literature? :hmmmmm:

/|\
Soul,

There isn't, and there isn't.

In Old Irish literature, a "witch" is a practitioner of destructive magic, and has little to nothing in common with Wiccans. Wicca and Traditional "Druidism" are very different from one another:

Wicca says "An it harm none, do what thou wilt." Traditional "Druidism" does not forbid justified cursing, nor does Celtic Heathen teaching require pacifism.

Wicca works with the Four/Five Element scheme of Ceremonial Magic. Traditional "Druidism" has Three Realms and Nine Elements.

Wicca is essentially Duotheistic (and in some cases, even Monotheistic). Traditional "Druidism" is Polytheistic (in some cases, Pan-Polytheistic).

Wicca is a blending of several different systems (sometimes via a syncretic approach, but mostly via an eclectic approach). Traditional "Druidism" is culture-specific, but occasionally (not often) engages in syncretism. I would be quite shocked to find a single example of eclecticism in Traditional Celtic Heathenism (that's not to say that there isn't one or more, but such a thing would be most unusual, and not at all in keeping with my views of what a "Druid" does), and would reject the results as inconsistent with my own faith. Syncretism is a blending by someone that strives to maintain consistent doctrines and practices; eclecticism is a blending by someone who doesn't care if he/she is self-referentially inconsistent in the blending.

Wicca teaches that all Wiccans are clergy. Traditional "Druidism" believes in merit-based castes (note: Merit-Based, not based on the accident of birth; Brehon Law says "A man is better than his birth."), and only one of the three castes is the "Priestly" caste, and only one of the three Vocations in that caste is made up of Priests and Priestesses; in other words, there is such a thing as a "layperson" in Traditional "Druidism."

These are only some of the differences, and many more could be listed.

[LordHelmet]

What I didn't say before, I was a bit rushed, was that in the panoply of today's paganism it would be acceptable as John said to mix Wicca and Druidry but becareful what you call it. As a rapidly greying Druid I take exception at the mixing of the two. I'm not saying it's wrong it just gets up my nose. I have Wiccan friends who are certain we are similar but very different indeed. That is why for instance, when I see a pentacle I assume Wicca, rightly or wrongly. It is Not IMHO a Druid symbol.

Ahhh, the penatcle pentagram thing. It just so turns out that the wikipedia has a very in depth history of it.

http://www.answers.com/pentagram (http://www.answers.com/pentagram)

It mentions that the five points were thought to symbolyze the five sacred wounds of christ, but they are also thought to symbolyze the five hebrew letters of Jesus. The first four are the letters that make Jehovah, but the fifth and center leter represents spirit, as does the center point of the pentagram. I think it's just coincedent that the middle leter in english is an S or it was translated thusly on purpose. (the hwbrew is more like Jeheshuah)

I would say that the Pentacle is just a symbol of magick nowadays and not really a Wiccan or Druid symbol.

[MercysFallen]

No, it's Middle Eastern in origin. That's why I'm not sure what to do with the beautiful pentacle I made back when I was Wiccan; it's just not something I can bear to sell...

The DruidCraft has a Tarot deck out; they also have a website.

Acually, the Pentacle became most popular as an ancient Greek symbol adopted by many. Even Christians for a short time!

Ren

[Silvan]

As a rapidly greying Druid I take exception at the mixing of the two.....That is why for instance, when I see a pentacle I assume Wicca, rightly or wrongly. It is Not IMHO a Druid symbol.Hee! :lol: What do you make of the Five Trunks then? (The symbol formerly known as the "Pentapple" but I decided that was a stupid name after all. Apple is the first letter of the Applebeech, but it doesn't look a blasted thing like Alpha, and pentalpha != pentapple.)

It's a pentagram, (explicitly not a pentacle), and it represents the Five Trunks of the Tree of Life (see attachment for a crude rendering of the concept.) Note the little overlapping thingies a the points, and there's no circle around it. It's Not A Pentacle™, but it's not exactly the sort of thing one would normally expect to find associated with Druidry either.

What it is, more or less, is a quasi-Dru-like way of expressing the closest thing all the randomly-scattered facets of Pagandom have to a universally recognizeable symbol.

I'd say if my little adventure in building a new path has accomplished nothing else, I've done a fine job of blurring this particular line even further.