The Elements

[Chesna]

Ok... I am done with summer school so now I can turn my full attention to my Wiccan studies. I am trying to complete my training with my coven.. anywho.. I decided that I would like to start discussion threads as I re-organize my BOS.
So my first question is on the elements.

In my tradition, which is Eclectic Wicca the elements are earth, air, fire and water.
We place earth in the east, air in the north, fire in the south and water in the west.

What direction are the elements in your tradition? what are the qualitites or other associations that you see the elments as??

Chesna

[fangedeshana]

http://www.livejournal.com/community/wise_path/18472.html?#cutid2 (http://www.livejournal.com/community/wise_path/18472.html?#cutid2) something you may find interesting that someone who workd with the elements wrote up for my own inetrest.

I currently see the main elements as Earth (west), Air (south), Fire (north), Water (east) and Spirit. I'm exploring more into the elements though, and my thoughts are sugject to change.

EDIT!!!
Oh, and though I'd elaborate now I have time as to WHY I stick the elements with those directions.

North is fire because I am south of the equator, an the further north of me you go, the hotter the sun burns.

South is air, as we often get southernly winds, nice and cool from Antarcia.

East is water, as that is where the largest body of water is near me on the eastside.

West is earth, since I have the entire continent mostly on the westside of me.

I'll post colours and associations tomorrow... *yawns*

[Chesna]

http://www.livejournal.com/community/wise_path/18472.html?#cutid2 (http://www.livejournal.com/community/wise_path/18472.html?#cutid2) something you may find interesting that someone who workd with the elements wrote up for my own inetrest.

I currently see the main elements as Earth (west), Air (south), Fire (north), Water (east) and Spirit. I'm exploring more into the elements though, and my thoughts are sugject to change.

Cool. I'll have to check that out. My thoughts for my BOS are to have what my tradition does and then what others see.. cuz you never know when that info will come in handy or when you maywant to experiment with it.

My associations with the elements are-
Earth- life and death, cleansing
Air- Thoughts and dreams
Fire- Passion, energy
Water-emotions, and actions

Chesna

[ShadowcatX]

When I use the elements (which is often) I associate them as follows:

Air - North
Fire - East
Earth - South
Water - West

Air is north because many of the breezes we get come from the north and because most people consider North to be "up."

Fire is East simply because the sun rises in the east.

Earth is south, South is generally considered down so. . .

Water is West simply because I practice on the East bank of a lake.

[Silver Nightfire]

For me, Earth has always been in the North, Water in the West, Air in the East and Fire in the South.

[Darakash]

For me, Earth has always been in the North, Water in the West, Air in the East and Fire in the South.

Me too....and the associations I make to each area

North/Earth: hearth, home, material things, grounding, calming,
East/Air: Mind, thought, communication, inspiration,
West/Water: Feelings, intuition and healing*
Fire/South: Passion, movement, motivation

*actually earth, water and fire have certain healing properties all of their own, but water seems the most oriented toward it in some ways

[FateDancer]

In my tradition and in the tradition of most italian witches i sometimes practice with, the elements have usually these basic corrisponances:

Earth --> North (colors : browns, blacks, deep green colors all earth related colors)
Air --> East (colors : white, sky blues, yellow, dawn colors)
Water --> West (colors: deep blues ans water greens, water colors)
Fire --> South (colors: oranges, yellows and fire hot colors)
and we do add spirit an concider it at the center of all beacause spirit is where you stand (colors: purples)

But elements have other corrispondances as well, special animals, special places, special divination tools, special spirits, and special ritual parts. So if you want to start to write them out in the BOS let yourself a lot of space, because elements will need it ever more while advancing on your personal path.

[wrenjamin]

For me, Earth has always been in the North, Water in the West, Air in the East and Fire in the South.

I also use these associations :) I dont really remember why exactly I began with these as it was some years ago, however, I cannot imagine associating them with anything else.

[Chesna]

For me, Earth has always been in the North, Water in the West, Air in the East and Fire in the South.

The umbrella Church my coven belongs to uses these same associations..however.. the coven I am reversed earth and air and I am trying to find the info I have on why.. I want to say it has to do with feet.. but let me get back to you on that!

Chesna

[Chesna]

In my tradition and in the tradition of most italian witches i sometimes practice with, the elements have usually these basic corrisponances:

Earth --> North (colors : browns, blacks, deep green colors all earth related colors)
Air --> East (colors : white, sky blues, yellow, dawn colors)
Water --> West (colors: deep blues ans water greens, water colors)
Fire --> South (colors: oranges, yellows and fire hot colors)
and we do add spirit an concider it at the center of all beacause spirit is where you stand (colors: purples)

But elements have other corrispondances as well, special animals, special places, special divination tools, special spirits, and special ritual parts. So if you want to start to write them out in the BOS let yourself a lot of space, because elements will need it ever more while advancing on your personal path.

WOW!!! Thanks for all that info.. yes.. I plan on space for much info.. if I need to I have another larger 3-ring binder I can expand it into.. but for right now.. i am just getting some general/basics- if there is such a thing!!

Keep it coming everyone.. so much great info!!

Blessings!!

Chesna

[Silver Nightfire]

I also use these associations I dont really remember why exactly I began with these as it was some years ago, however, I cannot imagine associating them with anything else.

Same here :) I have no idea where my associations came from, maybe a book or something. But ever since, I've never been able to change them.

[FateDancer]

Well ok probabbly most of us have these corrispondances beacause of what the elements mean in each direction.
I have never heard of the other kind of corrispondances so i never thought about them...

But the reasons for the ones i posted i guess are usually these :

Air is associated to new things, new beginnings, new ideas evrything that is new, East is the direction where the sun rises alas the New day, so air is at the east to rappresent all that is new or at the beginning.

Water in ancient times was not only associated to life as we think a lot but it was mostly associated to death, many legends about hero's deaths describe it as a "crossin the water", and many funerals in northern europe were celebrated leaving the corpse to the water, alas, water is associated to the moon, so West that is where the sun sets is the direction associated to it.

Earth is the ground, the mystery, the colors are dark colors that rappresent both life and stillness, its spaces are mostly caves and hidden places, so north that is where winter is stronger usually and where light lasts less and you feel the potential strenght of the earth befor eit blooms in spring is its direction.

Fire, well, if you go to the south the temperature usually is hotter and warm currents and winds come from the south, so its association to fire is kind of logical....

[equinox2]

Darakash wrote:
Me too....and the associations I make to each area

North/Earth: hearth, home, material things, grounding, calming,
East/Air: Mind, thought, communication, inspiration,
West/Water: Feelings, intuition and healing*
Fire/South: Passion, movement, motivation

That’s what I use too. I’m a Naturalistic Pagan (sort of like a “scientific” pagan), so the “elements” for me are the 4 states of matter, not the actual “elements”, since we scientists call the elements of the periodic chart “elements”, so there are over 100 of them.

The four states of matter are (coldest) solid, liquid, gas, plasma (hottest). The fit nicely with the traditional elements. So I really like the traditional associations as Darakash wrote, for the reasons Darakash mentioned, as well as the fact that the traditional assignment puts earth (solid – coldest) in the cold direction (north) and fire (plasma-hottest) in the hot direction, south. Of course, as fang pointed out, those two are reversed if you are in the southern hemisphere.

Just my two cents. :flowers:

Take care-

[spirit wind]

http://www.livejournal.com/community/wise_path/18472.html?#cutid2 (http://www.livejournal.com/community/wise_path/18472.html?#cutid2) something you may find interesting that someone who workd with the elements wrote up for my own inetrest.

I currently see the main elements as Earth (west), Air (south), Fire (north), Water (east) and Spirit. I'm exploring more into the elements though, and my thoughts are sugject to change.

EDIT!!!
Oh, and though I'd elaborate now I have time as to WHY I stick the elements with those directions.

North is fire because I am south of the equator, an the further north of me you go, the hotter the sun burns.

South is air, as we often get southernly winds, nice and cool from Antarcia.

East is water, as that is where the largest body of water is near me on the eastside.

West is earth, since I have the entire continent mostly on the westside of me.

I'll post colours and associations tomorrow... *yawns*
I am in the West Part of Australia and mine are similiar.

Earth - South, it's the greenest part of Western Australia so to me represents earth
Air - East, we get a lot of easterlies here and the sun rises from the east so to me it's a given
Fire - North, the kimberleys and Pilbara region are the hottest all year round
Water - West, that's where the ocean is
Spirit - is in my heart.

[RubyRose]

I associate the elements as follows, not sure exactly why, but it just feels right.

North : Fire
East : Air
South : Earth
West : Water

[Chesna]

Ok.. here is the reasons why I put the elements where I do:
East- Earth Since the earth is the beginning of all life and the east is the beginning of a new day.. they just match up well

Fire- South Like many others.. in the south fire is there.. its when fire is the strongest.. the sun is stronger in the south

Water- West The day ends in the west.. energy is declining.. and at end of life people get emotional and intuitive

Air- North Air is unseen and mysterious.. no one can ever see the wind..kind of like death.. we know its there.. but we never actualy see it in full view.. in the north things are at its darkess... like death.. so they sem to flow together

I hope you liked it!!!

Now back to typng and organizing!!

Chesna

[XanderAmon]

For me, Earth has always been in the North, Water in the West, Air in the East and Fire in the South.

Me too. I didn't even know anybody thought of it differently! o_O But I suppose you learn something new every day, aye? :hmmmmm:

[Ivy Artemisia]

I use the traditional setup- North- Earth, South- Fire, West- Water, East Air. However, I once attempted to find personal correspondances for the elements and ended up with the same thing. I'm in southern California...

North of me is Earth (the mountains)
South of me is Fire (hot fiery Mexico)
East of me is Air (the wind tunnel and wind farms of Palm Desert)
West of me is Water (the Pacific Ocean)

Almost everyone I know follows these correspondances. I had no idea there were so many that didn't. Thats awesome.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Well, I grew up with the
N=E,
E=A,
S=F,
W=W
but a couple years ago I heard that
N=W
E=A
S=F
W=E
was more accurate since the elements with different qualities are on opposite directions. Here's a bit about it: The Directions (http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/PP.html#elements)
The points of the Pentagram correspond to the Four Directions and Up. Unfortunately, there are many ways the directions can be assigned. The assignment most commonly used in the Renaissance makes Water=West, Air=South, Fire=East, Earth=North, which makes the perspective from above toward the Northeast. Another approach, adopted by Ashmole, is to assign them on the basis of the Organic Cycle and the motion of the Sun (Air=Wet=Morning=East, Fire=Hot=Midday=South, Earth=Dry=Evening=West, Water=Cold=Night=North). (With these assignments our perspective is below the Pyramid looking toward the Northeast.) Ptolemy assigns them on the basis of the Four Winds and their Qualities (which gives Water=Cold=North, Air=Wet=West, Fire=Hot=South, Earth=Dry=East). (With these assignments our perspective is above the Pyramid looking toward the Southeast, the sacred direction of the Etruscans.)

Tip: If you work in Wiccan or Golden Dawn traditions, with their directional associations (East-Air, South-Fire, West-Water, North-Earth), but don't want to get the alchemical structure of the elements garbled, then use the Ptolemaic assignments. Instead of Air, think Dry East Wind; instead of Fire, Hot South Wind; instead of Water, Wet West Wind; instead of Earth, Cold North Wind. That is, you will be working in terms of the Powers, which have the correct oppositional structure, rather than the Elements, which don't. I still go with my Wiccan ways regarding directions, though, because it works well enough for me. ^_^ Even if what I'm doing is not quite right, if I try changing, it will take me away from the groove I've got and everything will suck, at least until I make a new groove. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[CaitrionaMorgaine]

Within my own personal path, I don't see that there are 4 elements as such. I follow the viewpoint of the Land, Sea and Sky...with Fire being a divine gift. However, when I was working within a circle and wanted to call the elments in at four points I did it with these correspondences:

Earth - North
Air - South
Fire - East
Water - Water

Within my tradition, one of the Founding Mothers was taught in Irish Traditional Witchcraft, and that was very much influencial in those correspondences.

Brighid is the light/fire bringer and She always comes from the east, so east and light/fire became associated in that aspect. That is one major point that was made, and upon some research, it makes sense to me.

Within the land of Tir na nog (the Irish Otherworld) , the Tuatha have four sacred cities in each compass direction that have certain esoteric messages for us to learn, so the correspondences are geared a little towards learning some of the lessons available within the cities. (I am still working on this, since I have yet to find any information that tells me that the cities are located in those directions on any map) The four cities in which the Tuatha Dé Danann studied lore, science and diabolic arts were Falias, Gorias, Murias and Findias.

Out of Falias was brought the Stone of Destiny, or Lia Fáil which was in Tara. It used to cry out whenever a 'true' Irish king was crowned at Tara. Out of Gorias was brought Lugh's Spear. Stories say that no battle was ever won against it, or he who wielded it.

Out of Findias was brought the Sword of Nuadhu. When it was drawn from its deadly sheath, no foe could escape from its irrisitable power. Out of Murias was brought Dagdha's Cauldron. No company ever went from it unthankful.

These are the beginning points of exploration for the correspondences we've assigned and the reasons behind them. I am still exploring the deeper meanings behind the myths and symbolism that lead to them being assigned that way.

Don't know if that helps, but it's how I do it.

Avalon's Blessings, ~Rhiannon

[Chesna]

WOW!! Everyone's different ideas and thoughts are pretty cool!!! It's nice to know that there is variety.. and that no one has claimed that their's it the RIGHT way to do.. sooo cool!!!

Chesna

[fatimah2001]

wow! i didnt know that every1 had diff ways of doing this.....

[ruadhan]

I must say I was quite surprised to see all the variations of the elements and what directions you all associate them with! Interesting indeed.

Personally, I use the "traditional" associations, meaning the one's that I think are most often referred to in books/classes. These are Air/East, Fire/South, Water/West, and Earth/North. Why? The easy answer is because that's the way I learned to work with them :)

A more detailed answer involves what I have learned to be called the "Collective Unconscious". Symbols and associations are very powerful things, and when a group of people use the same symbols with the same associations over a long period of time, they grow more and more powerful. Everytime we work with the symbols/associations in the same manner as those that walked this path before us, we are drawing on that collective power, and simultaneously, adding to it! This explanation could go on and on. My High Priestess has a two hour lecture just on the Collective Unconscious! But I bring it up just to add another reason for working with elements, and anything else, in the traditional manner. At the end of the day, there is no right or wrong, just what works best for each of us :)

Brightest Blessings,

[PoisonIvy]

"Personally, I use the "traditional" associations, meaning the one's that I think are most often referred to in books/classes. These are Air/East, Fire/South, Water/West, and Earth/North. Why? The easy answer is because that's the way I learned to work with them."



Yeah! What he said! :toofless:

[Morgandria]

Everytime we work with the symbols/associations in the same manner as those that walked this path before us, we are drawing on that collective power, and simultaneously, adding to it

This is exactly what I was taught, when I inquired about the reason for the traditional correspondences of the elements.

[DancingCrow3]

I see the earth as North, Air as East, Fire as South, and Water as West, but that is because that is how I learned them. In my own path, I use four minor goddesses as rulers of the elements. Persephone for the Earth, Iris for Air, Hestia for Fire, and Amphitrite for Water. This helps to correct somewhat the imbalance bought about by the major twelve deities of my pantheon having seven gods to only five goddesses. At the same time the goddesses I use as elemental rulers are connected to the four most major deities of the pantheon (Persephone is connected to both Zeus and Demeter, as well as to Hades-though he is not one ofthe Twelve he is important- Iris is connected to Hera; Hestia is cnnected again to Zeus, who advised that Hestia should be honored as goddes of the hearth in all prayers and rituals, therefre this accomplishes that; and Amphitrite is of course the wife of Poseidon)

Finally, when casting the circle, I start and end at the North, for Earth, and this fits with Persephone's aspets as the Queen of the Underorld who rises in the spring to herald renewed life for the earth.

[StormVixen]

this is jus my oppinion and beliefs...dont wanna confuse things...i believe the elements arent attatched to direction... they are all around so... i call them from from whichever direction the particular element is more predominant... say if there is a river to the north that would be the direction of water... if there is a forest or a mountain in the south that would be the direction of earth... etc... it just makes more sence to me... i know lots of people dont agree and they say that other corispondances would get confused but i find it works for me...

or when im in the woods there is a spring next to the clearing, for water, a path, for air, my fire pit, for fire, and a small standing stone i erected for earth...

[Chesna]

WOW!! Everyone's associations are just wonderful!!
It's nice to know thatwe can all have different ways of doing it.. and the world doesn't fall apart.. and we still feel connected to our Higher Power!!!

Soo very neat!! I love it!!

Chesna

[fangedeshana]

There are arguments saying the reason any direction and association works, no matter where the person resides is that such matters of magic and related things are worked on a higher plane, therefore location, time, directions don't mean the same as on our material plane, if anything at all.

Just thought I'd throw that in, as I'm bored and craving something to discuss or do... :p

[spirit wind]

There are arguments saying the reason any direction and association works, no matter where the person resides is that such matters of magic and related things are worked on a higher plane, therefore location, time, directions don't mean the same as on our material plane, if anything at all.

Just thought I'd throw that in, as I'm bored and craving something to discuss or do... :pYou know, I have never really thought of it that way. I know I always say that Time is different on the spiritual plane and doesn't really matter as it's a human thing this Time. But never thought of the others regarding direction etc.
Though these may be different on the higher planes and may not mean the same if anything at all, alot of what has to be worked happens down here on the physical plane so I think that it would have some meaning to it, like timing and so on.
Maybe it's more the correspondences than the actual 'time', 'location' etc.
Thanks for bringing that up, it should make for good conversation.

[Chesna]

There are arguments saying the reason any direction and association works, no matter where the person resides is that such matters of magic and related things are worked on a higher plane, therefore location, time, directions don't mean the same as on our material plane, if anything at all.

Just thought I'd throw that in, as I'm bored and craving something to discuss or do... :p

You know I never thought of it that way!! Very interesting thought. However, I look at it slightly different than you.. but along the same context. I think that it doesn't matter what direction or element you have as long as it works for you. The reason I say this is because part of magic is intent. I read somehwere ( I can't remember where so I hope I don't plagurize too bad) that even those who don't believe or practice magic could cause things to happen just by their sheer intent. An example is like a girlfriend who is jilted.. she may think a 100 times a day that she wishes her bf would suffer like she is and low and behold something happens. Our intent and our focus in our magick make it work. As long as we truly beleive that North= Earth or whatever, it becomes part of us and our intent.. therefore increasing the possibility of our magick working.

Great discussion point!!

Chesna

[fangedeshana]

I didn't say that was my opinion. lol I just said I have seen that side of an argument in these kinds of conversations before.

Personally I think everything: day of the week, times, directions, herbs, candle colours, ritual tools, etc are just all focus items. Things to help us relate to something bigger than ourselves, and open pathways to magic, or deity etc.

[Pandoras]

This is a neat thread. I like seeing all the variations.

I'm eclectic Wiccan and use the following associations: North/Earth, East/Air, South/Fire, and West/Water. There's no particular reason for it other than that is how I was taught and it makes sense to me. However, after seeing all the varied responses, I'm going to explore this further.

I try to keep my practices connected the natural environment here, where I live. For instance, during Yule, there's no point in me welcoming the Sun since it never left. I'm in Miami; it's sunny and hot all year. Any animals, plants, stones, and so forth, that I associate to each element are naturally found here in South Florida. For instance, I associate East/Air with eagles, West/Water with dolphins, North/Earth with deer, palm trees, and limestone, etc.

[Chesna]

Personally I think everything: day of the week, times, directions, herbs, candle colours, ritual tools, etc are just all focus items. Things to help us relate to something bigger than ourselves, and open pathways to magic, or deity etc.

You know I have thought the same thing!! Being human we can only imagine so much, but colorsand elements and herbs ect all give us that focus therefore making or magick real and hands on!!

Chesna

[equinox2]

Pandoras wrote:

I'm eclectic Wiccan and use the following associations: North/Earth, East/Air, South/Fire, and West/Water.

I also use these traditional associations, for several reasons. First, they are traditional and in wide use. That means that keeping to this tradition makes it easier for us all to be unified, since we can share rituals and celebrations more easily. This is my naturalistic counterpart to the point that using the traditional associations links us the collective energy of past and future rituals. I agree, it does. Also, from a scientific standpoint, the traditional associations work the best because the elements correspond to the states (phases) of matter, which correspond to the temperatures they occur at, hence, earth (solid) goes in the north, the coldest direction, while fire (plasma) goes in the south, the hottest.

Overall, I think people should have the freedom to use other associations, but only if they have a strong reason to do so, and that generally sticking with the traditional works best for us as a whole.

As has been mentioned, having associations gives focus – I fully agree. And having associations be mostly reliable and constant strengthens that focus. That way, we can act immediately instead of wondering or discussing (or worse, arguing) over which associations we should use.

Blessed be-

[Mòrag Elasaid Ní Dhòmhnaill]

Well, I'm not Wiccan so I'm not really sure how helpful I'll be. I'm actually a Gaelic polytheist and in Gaelic tradition the elements are completely different than those you encounter among Wiccans and Ceremonial Magicians.

The most commonly recognized elements in Gaelic tradition are that of Land, Sea and Sky, with Fire representing inspiration and thus something completely different I don't particuarly associate the elements with any directions; though if I did I suppose that I would classify them as Land at the Center, Sea below, and Sky above. I'm sure this isn't really what you're looking for, but it's how I perceive the elements.

[mothwench]

Darakash wrote:


That’s what I use too. I’m a Naturalistic Pagan (sort of like a “scientific” pagan), so the “elements” for me are the 4 states of matter, not the actual “elements”, since we scientists call the elements of the periodic chart “elements”, so there are over 100 of them.

The four states of matter are (coldest) solid, liquid, gas, plasma (hottest). The fit nicely with the traditional elements. So I really like the traditional associations as Darakash wrote, for the reasons Darakash mentioned, as well as the fact that the traditional assignment puts earth (solid – coldest) in the cold direction (north) and fire (plasma-hottest) in the hot direction, south. Of course, as fang pointed out, those two are reversed if you are in the southern hemisphere.

Just my two cents. :flowers:

Take care-

that is really interesting, about the four states of matter. :hmmmmm:
and that is all i have to say about that. :smile: