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Thread: What is your opinion on Christian religion?

  1. #51
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    After visiting my friends and family recently back home, I am starting to get the impression that the ones that are the most rabid frothing at the mouth Christians (especially after hearing the way some of them were spewing things about homosexuals over Easter) are that way because they like power. What better power to have than to say that God says they should think things and there's little to be done to disprove it (well, unless you educate yourself on the original words that were written and all that heresy). Sometimes, I can't blame people when they react negatively to me being a Christian, much less a Christian and a witch. Needless to say, I had to bite my tongue a lot down in San Diego, at least for now. I guess I don't make a very good "straight ally" to homosexuals
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  2. #52
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    David19 wrote:
    I'd also thought i'd say that while i also disagree with the teachings about LGBT people (as i am gay), i see them in the context that they were written (the Hebrews were tribal and they wanted to become a 'nation', so they needed to reproduce more, and homosexuality was a part of early Judaism),
    I've heard that before, and having read the Bible, it just doesn't wash. Why not? Well, for one reason, we all know that there is no shortage of sperm. For instance, if a bisexual male has sex often enough to keep impregnating his wife (we all know that doing so doesn't require that much sex), and in addition has sex with a guy now and then, then that would work fine. There would still be just as many babies. Or in the case of Lesbianism - no sperm is wasted at all, why not two women who have raised families engage in lesbian sex? The whole "nation" or "reproduction" ideas just don't work.

    I think that the "reproduction" and such defenses of why the Bible is so anti-LGBT is because a lot of people seem to think that it matters what the Bible says. If they see anti-LGBT stuff in the Bible, they try to "reinterpret" it or "explain it away" or change the "context". Imagine if a new book came out that had as much anti-LGBT stuff as the Bible. People would look at it and say "this is atrocious, it is simply anti-LGBT", instead of going through mental gymnastics so as to avoid calling a spade a spade. I think it is much more honest to simply agree that the Bible has that stuff in it (and meant it originally), and from there to conclude that the Bible simply isn't an absolute source of good and truth.

    i've seen some sites that say Jesus never condems gay people (and i think says to not harm them).
    Jesus never mentions gay people (in the 4 gospels of the Bible) . He does affirm the absolute power and authority of the Hebrew God. He does prohibit sex outside of marriage (and even prohibits divorce), and state that marriage is between a man and a woman.

    Jesus (in the 4 gospels of the Bible) certainly never says not to harm them, since he doesn't mention LGBT people. Based on the Bible, it's hard to come up with a pro-gay argument, and easy to come up with one that is anti-LGBT, since Paul rants against gays in the New Testament. In fact, one could say the New Testament is even more anti-gay than the old testament, since the punishment for being gay in the old testament is "merely" death, while in the new testament it is eternal torture in Hell. However, that is simply because the old testament doesn't have Hell (Hell is a new testament invention that Jesus brings).

    However, there is the interesting non Biblical gospel of "secret mark" which suggests that Jesus himself was gay. If it's real, that's very interesting. Scholars debate about whether or not it is a forgery. You can read Secret Mark at www.earlychristianwritings.com

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  3. #53
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    Christians in general I have no problem with. There are as many "good" apples in that barrel as there are "bad".

    I think that if Christianity is the path you choose, and it truly feels right for you, then it is.

    And, as long as you don't try to convert me, constantly tell me I'm going to hell, try to argue religion with me when its clear that you haven't read the bible or truly studied your chosen path... we'll get along just fine.
    Ancora Imparo


  4. #54
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    I posted this in the History thread, but i'll post it again, this site, http://www.lezbeout.com/ancientgayma...malesaints.htm, says that the early Christians performed gay marriages (which i would love Bush to see).

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by equinox2
    David19 wrote:


    I've heard that before, and having read the Bible, it just doesn't wash. Why not? Well, for one reason, we all know that there is no shortage of sperm. For instance, if a bisexual male has sex often enough to keep impregnating his wife (we all know that doing so doesn't require that much sex), and in addition has sex with a guy now and then, then that would work fine. There would still be just as many babies. Or in the case of Lesbianism - no sperm is wasted at all, why not two women who have raised families engage in lesbian sex? The whole "nation" or "reproduction" ideas just don't work.

    I think that the "reproduction" and such defenses of why the Bible is so anti-LGBT is because a lot of people seem to think that it matters what the Bible says. If they see anti-LGBT stuff in the Bible, they try to "reinterpret" it or "explain it away" or change the "context". Imagine if a new book came out that had as much anti-LGBT stuff as the Bible. People would look at it and say "this is atrocious, it is simply anti-LGBT", instead of going through mental gymnastics so as to avoid calling a spade a spade. I think it is much more honest to simply agree that the Bible has that stuff in it (and meant it originally), and from there to conclude that the Bible simply isn't an absolute source of good and truth.



    Jesus never mentions gay people (in the 4 gospels of the Bible) . He does affirm the absolute power and authority of the Hebrew God. He does prohibit sex outside of marriage (and even prohibits divorce), and state that marriage is between a man and a woman.

    Jesus (in the 4 gospels of the Bible) certainly never says not to harm them, since he doesn't mention LGBT people. Based on the Bible, it's hard to come up with a pro-gay argument, and easy to come up with one that is anti-LGBT, since Paul rants against gays in the New Testament. In fact, one could say the New Testament is even more anti-gay than the old testament, since the punishment for being gay in the old testament is "merely" death, while in the new testament it is eternal torture in Hell. However, that is simply because the old testament doesn't have Hell (Hell is a new testament invention that Jesus brings).

    However, there is the interesting non Biblical gospel of "secret mark" which suggests that Jesus himself was gay. If it's real, that's very interesting. Scholars debate about whether or not it is a forgery. You can read Secret Mark at www.earlychristianwritings.com

    Hopefully, that'll clear some things up. Have a fun day-
    That sounds interesting, i'll read it when i have a bit more time, and if it's true then i'd love to see the faces of Bush, the KKK, and neo-nazi's, lol.

    I do think that it may have been the context that it was written in, but i do agree with you that the bible isn't 'all good', etc because i don't think anything is all 'good' or holy.

  6. #56
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    I am not huge fan of Christianity in general. It angers me when I think of some of things Christians have done in the past and in some cases are still doing today. There is a tendency towards intolerance and destroying other cultures, and yes I do realize that not all christians are like this. I do not hate Christians, at least not for just being Christian but I do hate what some christians do. That said, I have met many Christians who were good people and I would be proud to call them a friend of mine.
    The issue I have with Christianity is that it teaches that there is only one God and that you must worship this God or you will basically go to hell. It makes anyone who does not worship your God an enemy and encourages followers to convert others. This leads in many cases to intolerance of other religious and spiritual beliefs...
    I will say that not everything about the christian religion is bad, I believe that all religions have some value and there are certainly many teachings in the bible that I wish more people would heed...
    Your feet will bring you to where your heart is.

  7. #57
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    I see Christianity as a neccessary step in humanity's spiritual evolution. It is not the last step, and by far the first, but it is important. I ran a thread on MW a year ago asking you to visualize the world today if Christianity never existed (entitled What If Christianity Never Existed?). Before MW administrators shut it down due to the constant proselytizing of a certain Christian member who latched onto the thread, a lot of interesting views were brought up. The world might not have been a better place without the teachings of the Christ.
    Of course, the followers of any religion can often ruin that religion because most or all religions are based on faith, something that is unable to be demonstrated as fact and therefore liable to interpretation and opinion. As such, I see the Christianity of today as being in the same position that paganism was 2100 years ago. It's members are dwindling with the hope of something new coming soon. Rivals are perched at every corner. It's teachings have been made into literal interpretations that leave out the spirit of its message. For instance people focus so much on the Passion that they forget the Peace. It is being manipulated by its adherants to support their politics. It is broadcasting its superiority to other relgions and thus announcing its insecurity.
    These are just broad views, however, so it should be kept in mind that individual Christians are just as likely to embody the spirit of love as that of Fundamentalism. The empty can rattles the most, so it is usually the latter type that make the most noise in the media and our lives.
    Omnia Exeunt en Mysterium

  8. #58
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    Aside from its pagan orgins, a canon that is made of 4 out some 30 gospels, its many contradictions, historical inaccuracies and over all negative impact on the human race as far as technological progress I think the religion is fine! My opinion of the bible is not that its bad or wrong or whatever but that the use of it has lead to the dark ages, fundamentalist zealots, the crusades, the burning times, "manifest destiny" of the western world to conquor and tame the heathen savages or the Americas and else where and the power structure that is overly extravigant, hypocritical and to me absolutely evil that I find wrong. All this stuff has lead to one of the worse dominations in history. The supression of women's rights and equallity, the exclusion of outside doctorines and philosophies, the cultural bias that christians are some better than others. It all just fruastrates the hell out of me. THe Christian leadership has been one of the most controling and long lasting power structures in human history.

    And none of this has to do with the people themselves. No my beef with the Christian people is their willingness to live as sheep! Cattle! Slaves to their ever merciful and wrathful God. Of course this "blindness" that I percieve doesn't affect christians quite like it did even 50 years ago and no I don't think this makes Christians bad or deserving of some kind of genocide just they can be destructive in that they follow the leadership blindly.

    In other words my opinion is not good. But I personally don't hold any grudges against the Christian peoples just their leaders and a Christian dominated society.
    Last edited by Acid09; May 22nd, 2006 at 06:15 PM.
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  9. #59
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    Joseph Campbell said that at some point, if we don't vaporise the planet, we are going to get a new, global mythology, since there is no more real separation between countries and cultures. He cites the photos of earth taken from the moon, and how, unlike manmade maps and globes, there are no borders on these, and how it impacts consciouness - beautiful! We need this, we've been killing each other over stupid things forever now.

    I can't imagine what the new mytholgy will be, but to be viable, there should be no "out" group, no infidels, no hell-bounds.

    In other words, not very Biblical.
    BB, Stella

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by narniagal04
    Speaking as a Christian...

    A Christian is a person who believes that Jesus is Lord and Savior.

    That's it. That's what makes you a Christian. So Christianity is a group of people trying to live for Jesus together. There are lots of denominations (flavors if you will!) just like there are a billion forms of witchcraft/paganism.

    Now, that's not to say that the different groups don't disagree. They do. That's why they're different groups. But the one thing that all Christians believe (at least, if they are true Christians and don't just use the title) is Jesus.
    My point exactly! Here we have a claim to the label Christian that subsequently feels that they have monopoly and can dictate who is and isn't a christian. The use of vague meaning soundbytes that I've heard all my life such as Jesus being your personal lord and saviour sound more hollow and meaningless the more often I hear it.

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