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Thread: Bad Pagan Sites?

  1. #11
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    through my cyber travels, I have seen MANY sites which would only confuse you if you dont know any better...

    there is alot of disinformation out there, and for someone who is new to paganism, wanting to learn , it is hard.

    my advice to anyone, new or old is to take what you read with a grain of salt. ANYONE can put up a website.. just because a website says the sky is blue on mars, does not mean the sky is blue on mars. Look at the website's author. some sites will quote sources and provide info as to where thier info is comming from. also it is important to watch out for the poopyganda... that is simply when it is sooo obvious that the author doesnt know what they are talking about, but they make it sound good..
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  2. #12
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    Bad Pagan Sites - Top 4 Traits:

    Any web site with the word "jesus", "christian"; "christ", or "savior" in the URL and claiming to have a Pagan FAQ or Wiccan "education" page.

    Any web site where the sole source of information on Pagan/Wiccan/Heathen practices is The Teen Witch Kit.

    Any site which references the "burning times" - for goodness sake read up on history, use the Library.

    Any site which makes a claim that Wicca is an "ancient religion" - my Scots-Irish great-great-great granny has no idea WTF a watchtower is or what the hell it's guarding.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AoibhellFaeryMoon View Post
    If you've noticed, I haven't posted any sites.

    There are a lot of bad sites out there...like the ones claiming D&D to be Wicca, or Satanism to be Paganism. I figured maybe newbies who wouldn't normally have a "filter" for websites would find this thread useful.

    Lock it, if you will.

    *shrug*
    What makes you decide what is and isn't "proper" Paganism? Not being argumentative, but I know a number of witches who consider themselves, at least in part of their practices, Satanic. Or what about the kids who whole-heartedly believe in those D&D deities, to the point of finally researching and attempting to work with them?

    I'm not bagging on you, I promise. All I'm doing is being the Devil's Advocate in this because I have made statements like you just did here. And I had it pointed out to me by one of those D&D worshipping freaks that they had just as much a right to their fiction as Christians have to theirs, and other Pagans have to ours.

    No one has a right to say what is good or bad when it comes to another's beliefs. Not if you purport to believe all religions to be equal.
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  4. #14
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    Bad Pagan Sites?

    Oh... sorry...

    I thought this was the thread about sites where we Evil Pagans hang out...

    Don't mind me, carry on...
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLili View Post
    What makes you decide what is and isn't "proper" Paganism? Not being argumentative, but I know a number of witches who consider themselves, at least in part of their practices, Satanic. Or what about the kids who whole-heartedly believe in those D&D deities, to the point of finally researching and attempting to work with them?

    I'm not bagging on you, I promise. All I'm doing is being the Devil's Advocate in this because I have made statements like you just did here. And I had it pointed out to me by one of those D&D worshipping freaks that they had just as much a right to their fiction as Christians have to theirs, and other Pagans have to ours.

    No one has a right to say what is good or bad when it comes to another's beliefs. Not if you purport to believe all religions to be equal.
    While I appreciate your sentiment, there is no historical or theological data to support the D&D deities. And that thinking, as well as the permissiveness in the rest of the community in recognizing the fiction as legitimate Paganism is irresponsible at best.

    We have a tradition. It varies by Culture and Pantheon. Pagans who claim to have a tradition with no affiliation to deity are simply Athiests wearing Pagan clothing.

    This is exactly the type of mis-information that this thread is referring to. Promoting fantasy as religion does no one any good.

    Oh and yes, there is a standard for what is and isn't Proper Paganism. Sure the guideline are loose, but they are there, for Wicca, Witchcraft and the Shamanic traditions.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    While I appreciate your sentiment, there is no historical or theological data to support the D&D deities. And that thinking, as well as the permissiveness in the rest of the community in recognizing the fiction as legitimate Paganism is irresponsible at best.
    unfortunately there are many who simply cannot tell the difference between theology and pop culture.
    pity, that.
    some people are like slinkies -
    not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when they are pushed downs the stairs.

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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    While I appreciate your sentiment, there is no historical or theological data to support the D&D deities. And that thinking, as well as the permissiveness in the rest of the community in recognizing the fiction as legitimate Paganism is irresponsible at best.
    Actually, I have to differ with you here. While i don't play the game, I know there are several deities who are mentioned in their guides that are based on the deities of ancient cultures, often Babylonia and Sumeria. Yes, it's a loose base, and the details are largely fictionalized, but the kid who made the statement had a point when he said it. The point being that they are free to research whatever gods they choose, for whatever reason - even if they're inspired by a game.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    We have a tradition. It varies by Culture and Pantheon. Pagans who claim to have a tradition with no affiliation to deity are simply Athiests wearing Pagan clothing.
    I beg your pardon - this "we" you speak of, are you speaking for me as well? Because I am also a Pagan. I follow no reconstruction of any path, with no clear lineage or tradition, and am just as much a Witch as my grandmothers before me. I worship no separate deities, and claim no specific affiliation. By your definition, this would make me an Atheist? I find your logic in this statement to be a very large assumption. You may have it in your head who "counts" as Pagan and who doesn't, but the fact of the matter is, as an umbrella term, anyone who feels like using that as their label is just as justified in using it as anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    This is exactly the type of mis-information that this thread is referring to. Promoting fantasy as religion does no one any good.
    Whoa! I'm so sorry! I had no idea that virgin pregnancies, folks being raised from the dead, and demonic possession had been proven as fact in last week's Popular Science! All religions are based on fantasy. It's whatever you make it for yourself. You can't prove religion. You can attempt to prove a lineage, you can attempt to prove a tradition's history, but when you come down to it, we all worship Invisible Superior Beings. Just because you can prove that someone else worshiped your Invisible Superior Being 2,000 years ago doesn't mean that mine is any less "real".

    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    Oh and yes, there is a standard for what is and isn't Proper Paganism. Sure the guideline are loose, but they are there, for Wicca, Witchcraft and the Shamanic traditions.
    Says who? What's your source? Who is it you think I should be deferring to in this instance, if not trusting in my own intellect?

    Look, all I'm saying here is what Xandar said above us. Anyone can make a website. Anyone can have a belief. Just because you don't recognize it or understand it doesn't make it less valid. (Because if you think that it does, then follow your logic down what Jefferson called the "slippery slope" which means in this case, what's to say that someone else wouldn't tell you that Paganism in general is just fantasy and not a religion at all since it's not something they recognize - by your logic they would be right.)

    You might not like when someone tells you they worship a water sprite from the Battle Moon of Endor, but you can't say their faith isn't as "real" as yours.
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  8. #18
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    Personally I think BlackLili makes some excellent points. Judging someone else's religious path as "bad" based on rather questionable things like how old it might or might not be, or how much of its mythology is "fantasy", is hardly objective.

    Perhaps it would be better to instead explain why we personally don't like whatever websites we want to critique. Here are some things that I'd like to see explored for instance:

    - historical accuracy: does the website show a good grasp of the history it presents?

    - sources cited: does the website identify where the information or ideas came from?

    - statements of fact or opinion: are statements on the website presented as hard fact when they are actually just an opinion?

    - originality: does the website present original information or is it just a rehash of information that is easily available in many other sites and sources?

    - layout and presentation: is the site attractive and easy to navigate?

    I'm sure there are lots of other things that we could discuss in critiquing a website. Let's just be clear about presenting our own opinions as opinions though as taste is a very personal thing and is hardly universal fact.

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLili View Post
    What makes you decide what is and isn't "proper" Paganism?
    Being a human being who can make my own decisions and have my own opinions gives me just as much right to consider LaVeyan Satanism not to be Pagan, or D&D not to be Wicca. Just as others have the right to feel it can be, I have the right to feel it can't be. Just because I disagree with them does not mean I prevent them from believing what they like, but we are all intelligent beings with the right, if not responsibility, to form our own opinions.

    Of course people have a right to believe the relevant "fiction" they choose, and in turn, others have a right to disagree. We go to online forums to share opinions. Not just to play a game of who has the right to believe what and who's a big fat meanie head.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLili View Post
    All religions are based on fantasy. It's whatever you make it for yourself. You can't prove religion. You can attempt to prove a lineage, you can attempt to prove a tradition's history, but when you come down to it, we all worship Invisible Superior Beings. Just because you can prove that someone else worshiped your Invisible Superior Being 2,000 years ago doesn't mean that mine is any less "real".
    Exactly...
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