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Thread: Bad Pagan Sites?

  1. #31
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    C'mon, everyone. There are bad sites. It doesn't even have anything to do with what they're preaching. There are just some places online that're frankly terrible.

    If the background is animated and the text isn't legible, I would call it a bad site. If there's huge cruft on every page and it takes three years to load, it's not worth your time. I'm not even asking for validation; just legibility most of the time. Oh yeah, and if you think y'all pagans have bad sites to worry about, you should see some of the Christian websites! Broken tags all the way down, and huge .wav files, not to mention bad javascript.

    ...I realize I may possibly have just insulted a good portion of Myspace. Sorry...

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
    C'mon, everyone. There are bad sites. It doesn't even have anything to do with what they're preaching. There are just some places online that're frankly terrible.

    If the background is animated and the text isn't legible, I would call it a bad site. If there's huge cruft on every page and it takes three years to load, it's not worth your time. I'm not even asking for validation; just legibility most of the time. Oh yeah, and if you think y'all pagans have bad sites to worry about, you should see some of the Christian websites! Broken tags all the way down, and huge .wav files, not to mention bad javascript.

    ...I realize I may possibly have just insulted a good portion of Myspace. Sorry...
    Don't fail the Myspace members. The Myspace system makes it way too easy to create crap. Anyone and their grandmother can build a bad web page with Myspace! (And if you happen to work for Myspace, then yes, I mean you.)
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
    C'mon, everyone. There are bad sites. It doesn't even have anything to do with what they're preaching. There are just some places online that're frankly terrible.

    If the background is animated and the text isn't legible, I would call it a bad site. If there's huge cruft on every page and it takes three years to load, it's not worth your time. I'm not even asking for validation; just legibility most of the time. Oh yeah, and if you think y'all pagans have bad sites to worry about, you should see some of the Christian websites! Broken tags all the way down, and huge .wav files, not to mention bad javascript.

    ...I realize I may possibly have just insulted a good portion of Myspace. Sorry...


    Although I got a giggle out of the fact that that other website requires registration to even view...

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xentor View Post
    Don't fail the Myspace members. The Myspace system makes it way too easy to create crap. Anyone and their grandmother can build a bad web page with Myspace! (And if you happen to work for Myspace, then yes, I mean you.)
    :heheheheoo true!!

    I love the ones (come on, you know I'm being facetious) where the back ground is hideous and the font is either in a matching (damn near) color or they went to the other side of color spectrum so it clashes like crazy...you know, an eyeball beeder!
    Its got more clip art plastered on the thing than a junior high schoolers notebook.....and EVERY bit of information they are handing out has come out of some Llewelyn (sp?) publication verbatim!


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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLili View Post
    So what does this mean for Satanic Witches and/or Satanic Wiccans? Not popular paths, but they most definitely exist. I believe it was LaVey's daughter who literally wrote the book on being a Satanic Witch.
    Having read that book years ago, I still remember that it didn't even remotely resemble Wicca--or neopaganism in general. It was more "Here's how to use psychology and a little bit of energy work to seduce any man, even married ones that you work with". So, totally different definition of "witch".
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  6. #36
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    There are a lot of young people here on MysticWicks who probably don't know Paganisms most recent history. For the record, Satanism has never been considered Pagan, not now, not 20 years ago, not 60 years, not ever. In fact you can trace this argument right back to Gardner/Crowley/LeVey. I think there were a few talk shows in the 70's (Merv Griffin was one, can't remember the other) where they publicaly went at each other over the subject.

    Before I start on the quotes, I want to point out that anyone who is so impolite in their responses and in their defense of their position should probably spend more time in study. When you have education as your ammunition, defense is the first trait to fall away.

    I beg your pardon - this "we" you speak of, are you speaking for me as well? Because I am also a Pagan. I follow no reconstruction of any path, with no clear lineage or tradition, and am just as much a Witch as my grandmothers before me. I worship no separate deities, and claim no specific affiliation. By your definition, this would make me an Atheist? I find your logic in this statement to be a very large assumption. You may have it in your head who "counts" as Pagan and who doesn't, but the fact of the matter is, as an umbrella term, anyone who feels like using that as their label is just as justified in using it as anyone else.
    Witchcraft or Wicca without Deity affiliation is Magic. There are plenty of magicians out there who are very good at what they do. It doesn't make them Pagan. For example, Criss Angel, Lance Burton and David Copperfield are perfect examples of "witchcraft without deity". They are master magicians and have never once invoked Deity in their shows. The bottom line is that Pagans DO HAVE affiliation with Deity.
    Additionally, our great-great-great granny's DID have an affiliation with one god or goddess or another (those of us who come from familial lines).

    Whoa! I'm so sorry! I had no idea that virgin pregnancies, folks being raised from the dead, and demonic possession had been proven as fact in last week's Popular Science! All religions are based on fantasy. It's whatever you make it for yourself. You can't prove religion. You can attempt to prove a lineage, you can attempt to prove a tradition's history, but when you come down to it, we all worship Invisible Superior Beings. Just because you can prove that someone else worshiped your Invisible Superior Being 2,000 years ago doesn't mean that mine is any less "real".
    Excuse me, the American Gods book review should be somewhere in the Literature thread. Neil Gaiman has made a wonderful case for creating new Gods. But isn't that off topic? Maybe this is where the Neo-Pagan label is appropriate.

    In reference to standards, again, it seems a lot of the new-young pagans are unfamiliar with the Code of Chivalry. This Pagan Code (sometime referred to the Witches Code of Chivalry) is one of the oldest codes of conduct we as a group know. (There is a Standard published in the 1970's for the government recognition of Wicca/Witchcraft and Paganism... I can't find the link.... when the brain fog lifts I will come back and provide it for you)

    And finally, the fantasy of D&D. While the gods/goddesses are probably legitimate, their correspondences are not accurate. It is comparable to someone using the Stargate interpretations of Egyptian or Khemetic deity. It's fantasy, a made up story that someone is attempting to legitimize as an ancient Pagan belief. Archaeologists and Anthropologists have researched ancient Pagan religions and have documented the deities found in these cultures. Changing the deities to fit some game or sci-fi show is not legitimate Paganism and is detrimental to our religion.

    You might not like when someone tells you they worship a water sprite from the Battle Moon of Endor, but you can't say their faith isn't as "real" as yours.
    It is perfectly fine to believe in this fantasy and even to call it YOUR religion. It is even better if the fantasy game leads the player to our religion and any legitimate path within our family of beliefs. But do not attempt to apply false history to the fantasy. Do not insult my respectable, magestic and ancient religion with the Fluff and Puff of "My Little Pony Paganism". At some point you need to grow up. When I was a teenager this type of belief was acceptable. When you enter society and expect to reap the benefits of a legally accepted religion, you do no one any good and you undermine the legitimacy of our faith by insisting that Zolgon of Planet Qwark is your patron Deity.

    I am very firm in my beliefs. I have embraced Paganism since a very early age, being taught by my grandmother and grandfather who were taught by their grandparents. Paganism, Witchcraft, Shamanism and Wicca are not fasion statements or rebellious acts of the pre-teen world. These are valid, protected and legally accepted religions. Propogating this false "anything goes" attitude is and will be the downfall of our religion as a whole.
    I think long signatures are a waste of bandwidth.

  7. #37
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    I'd say the bad sites are the ones opened by people who have read one book by someon like silver ravenwold, decided they are an authority and opened a website.

    These sites are 10 a penny, so misinformation spreads fast.
    Often, these websites just stick the word 'wicca' in the title somewhere, even when they are not even remotely such.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    Witchcraft or Wicca without Deity affiliation is Magic. There are plenty of magicians out there who are very good at what they do. It doesn't make them Pagan. For example, Criss Angel, Lance Burton and David Copperfield are perfect examples of "witchcraft without deity". They are master magicians and have never once invoked Deity in their shows. The bottom line is that Pagans DO HAVE affiliation with Deity.
    Additionally, our great-great-great granny's DID have an affiliation with one god or goddess or another (those of us who come from familial lines).
    No, I'm sorry. Those men you just mentioned are stage illusionists, not witches. They do not do the same thing, so not see their illusions as "real" magic, and do not believe in it as a path, except maybe the path of show-business. They are not master magicians in any sense other than the entertainment point of view. Crowley was a master magician. Gardner was a master magician. Sybill Leek was a master magician. David Copperfield and Criss Angel are showmen. Houdini was a showman. This argument mixes apples and oranges here.


    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    Excuse me, the American Gods book review should be somewhere in the Literature thread. Neil Gaiman has made a wonderful case for creating new Gods. But isn't that off topic? Maybe this is where the Neo-Pagan label is appropriate.
    I see this as splitting hairs. From a certain point of view, all Pagans in this day and age, with the exception of Recons and those Traditionalists who come from families with unbroken lineages (of which there are far fewer than people tend to claim,) all other current Pagans are practicing some form of Neo-Paganism. Neo simply means new, and by comparison to long-established major religions, Wicca having been created in the 1950's is still new. You're right though, it's OT, so I'll stop there.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    In reference to standards, again, it seems a lot of the new-young pagans are unfamiliar with the Code of Chivalry. This Pagan Code (sometime referred to the Witches Code of Chivalry) is one of the oldest codes of conduct we as a group know. (There is a Standard published in the 1970's for the government recognition of Wicca/Witchcraft and Paganism... I can't find the link.... when the brain fog lifts I will come back and provide it for you)
    No need, I'm actually quite familiar with the Witches' Chivalric Code, which I have a copy of here. This one was taken specifically from Ed Fitch's "The Crystal Well". As a side note, this seems to be related far more closely to Wicca than Witchcaft in general, judging by when it was written and by whom.
    1. Chivalry is a high code of honor which is of most ancient Pagan origin, and must be lived by all who follow the Old Ways.
    2. It must be kenned that thoughts and intent put forth on this Middle-Earth will wax strong in other worlds beyond and return…brining into creation, on this world, which had been sent forth. Thus one should exercise discipline, for “as ye do plant, so shall ye harvest.”
    3. It is only by preparing our minds to be as Gods that we can ultimately attain godhead.
    4. This above all to thine own self be true.
    5. A Witch’s word must have the validity of a signed and witnessed oath. Thus, give thy word sparingly, but adhere to it like iron.
    6. Refrain from speaking ill of others, for not all truths of the matter may be known.
    7. Pass not unverified words about another, for nor hearsay is, in large, a thing of falsehood.
    8. Be thou honest with others, and have them know that honesty is likewise expected of them.
    9. The Fury of the moment plays folly with the truth, to keep ones head is a virtue.
    10. Contemplate always the consequences of thine acts upon others. Strive to harm none.
    11. Diverse covens may well have diverse views on love between members and with others. When a coven, clan, or grove is visited or joined, one should discern quietly their practices, and abide thereby.
    12. Dignity, a gracious manner, and a good humor are much to be admired.
    13. As a Witch, thou hast power, and thy powers wax strongly as wisdom increases. Therefore exercised discretion in the use thereof.
    14. Courage and honor endure forever. Their echoes remain when the mountains have crumbled to dust.
    15. Pledge friendship and fealty to those who so warrant. Strengthen others of the Brethren and they shall strengthen thee.
    16. Thou shalt not reveal the secrets of another Witch or another coven. Others have labored long and hard for them, and cherish them as treasures.
    17. Though there may be differences between those of the Old Ways, those who are once-born must see nothing, and must hear nothing
    18. Those who follow the mysteries should be above reproach in the eyes of the world.
    19. The laws of the land should be obeyed whenever possible and within reason, for in the main they are been chosen with wisdom.
    20. Have pride in thyself, and seek perfection in the body and in the mind. For the Lady has said “How canst thou honor another unless thou give honor to thyself first?”
    21. Those who seek the Mysteries should consider themselves as select o the Gods, for it is they who lead the race of humankind to the highest of thrones and beyond the very stars.
    If you are referencing this particular code to bolster your argument that some folks' beliefs just aren't as "legitimate" as someone else's, I see no connection. This, as I reread it, simply says to me, "be a good person, seek your own truths, and follow your own paths." Nothing in here about standards that a faith is to be held against.

    Also, to reference this as a standard code against the use of fiction/fantasy in religion, I will point out that there is not only a quote from Shakespeare, but a Tolkien reference in there as well. My statement still stands that all religion is based on fantasy, simply some of differing longevities.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    It is perfectly fine to believe in this fantasy and even to call it YOUR religion. It is even better if the fantasy game leads the player to our religion and any legitimate path within our family of beliefs. But do not attempt to apply false history to the fantasy. Do not insult my respectable, magestic and ancient religion with the Fluff and Puff of "My Little Pony Paganism". At some point you need to grow up. When I was a teenager this type of belief was acceptable. When you enter society and expect to reap the benefits of a legally accepted religion, you do no one any good and you undermine the legitimacy of our faith by insisting that Zolgon of Planet Qwark is your patron Deity.

    I am very firm in my beliefs. I have embraced Paganism since a very early age, being taught by my grandmother and grandfather who were taught by their grandparents. Paganism, Witchcraft, Shamanism and Wicca are not fasion statements or rebellious acts of the pre-teen world. These are valid, protected and legally accepted religions. Propogating this false "anything goes" attitude is and will be the downfall of our religion as a whole.
    I'm sorry to disagree here with you again, but I think at this point, I take issue with your tone. I am not a Wiccan, nor ever claimed to be one. I am a Witch. No one else speaks for my religion. I know many like me older and younger, but none of us share the same set of beliefs. To speak of "the downfall of our religion as a whole" to me smacks of the dictatorial attitude I grew up with, in the faith I left.

    To dismiss my points as "my little pony" fluff and evidence of a fashion statement tells me that you have missed my point entirely. You're right, teenage rebellion is not a thing on which to build a faith. But that wasn't what I'm talking about. It's fine if you want to tell someone that two Pagans don't believe the same thing, but there is no one Pagan religion. There is no one Witch's faith. To make a sweeping statement like you just did above rankles me as someone free to make her own path. I may disagree with your path, but the fact remains that we are both considered Pagan in this time and place in the world's history. By ourselves and society at large. My argument in this thread has been only to point out that it is as it should be, in that.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    Any site which makes a claim that Wicca is an "ancient religion" - my Scots-Irish great-great-great granny has no idea WTF a watchtower is or what the hell it's guarding.
    LMAO :hehehehe:
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachWitch View Post
    While I appreciate your sentiment, there is no historical or theological data to support the D&D deities. And that thinking, as well as the permissiveness in the rest of the community in recognizing the fiction as legitimate Paganism is irresponsible at best.

    We have a tradition. It varies by Culture and Pantheon. Pagans who claim to have a tradition with no affiliation to deity are simply Athiests wearing Pagan clothing.

    This is exactly the type of mis-information that this thread is referring to. Promoting fantasy as religion does no one any good.

    Oh and yes, there is a standard for what is and isn't Proper Paganism. Sure the guideline are loose, but they are there, for Wicca, Witchcraft and the Shamanic traditions.
    What's are D&D Deities
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