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Thread: Bad Pagan Sites?

  1. #81
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    Heres a real winner: http://www.geocities.com/druidsoedhin/druidsoedhin.html

    I'll give a few choice quotes:

    Druids (male) and Fae (female)
    (No females were called druids, fae are well fae)

    Lugh is a warm, bright image surounded by 3 lions who dance in shapes. Lugh is never depicted as violent or cruel
    (Lets see those Irish lions. And we all know that Lugh kindly asked the formor to please go away.)


    The Druids spent most of their time in groves and gardens. They had an alchemy view of the world in that there are 4 elements, earth, air, fire and water.
    ( Thats right folks druid alchemy, never mind the three realms of sea, land, and sky thing.)

    The Druids evolved to be the gardeners or as the monks who cared for the walled gardens
    (The truth comes out druid became gardeners)

    Each clan has a tree or plant symbol based on the Druidic 13 months based on Dryads, tree spirits
    ( Well seeing how the tree calander didn't come out to much later and dryads are greek.)

    agnostic Pagan-Romans
    (Did the Romans know this?)
    As I was walking all alane, I heard twa corbies making a mane, the tane unto the nither did day, What sall we gang and dine the day?

  2. #82
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    Well, the site you linked might not be the best, but you might want to rethink some of your conclusions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadhbh
    Lugh is a warm, bright image surounded by 3 lions who dance in shapes. Lugh is never depicted as violent or cruel
    (Lets see those Irish lions. And we all know that Lugh kindly asked the formor to please go away.)
    No question that Lugh was known to fight (as were many Celtic deities) so the depiction of Him as "never violent" is pretty questionable. The comment about lions though is not on the mark though -- if we look at Celtic relics such as the Gundestrop cauldron it's clear that the Celts did know about a lot of different animals including large cats which they likely called lions.

    Check plate A at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gundestrup_cauldron for a photo of a section of the cauldron that shows large cats over at the right hand side of the image.

    The cauldron also depicts what are clearly elephants so assuming that Celts and Druids would only know about animals that were native in Ireland is not quite correct. There's also a long history of big-cat sightings in the UK and Ireland that go back hundreds if not thousands of years -- even if they were bogus sightings, people obviously knew about big cats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadhbh
    The Druids spent most of their time in groves and gardens. They had an alchemy view of the world in that there are 4 elements, earth, air, fire and water.
    ( Thats right folks druid alchemy, never mind the three realms of sea, land, and sky thing.)
    I'm not sure why you would assume that Druids knew nothing of what we call alchemy today. And knowing the sky-earth-sea trinity was prominent does not exclude the earth-air-fire-water quatrology either. We don't have enough evidence to say it definitely was not there, while we do have lots of evidence that people in the ancient worlds traveled around a lot and therefore there is a really good chance the Druids likely did know about foreign philosophies and religions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadhbh
    The Druids evolved to be the gardeners or as the monks who cared for the walled gardens
    (The truth comes out druid became gardeners)

    Each clan has a tree or plant symbol based on the Druidic 13 months based on Dryads, tree spirits
    ( Well seeing how the tree calander didn't come out to much later and dryads are greek.)
    While the Druids probably had their own words for the various spirits and entities in Nature, it's not surprising that a modern Druid might use terms commonly understood to refer to the same thing -- calling a tree spirit a dryad is not a stretch.

    The tree calendar, while not conclusively proven as part of ancient Druid teachings, is also not conclusively proven to have been a modern invention attributed to the Druids. I know modern writers have fleshed out (sometimes with a lot of creative license) what they thought the tree calendar might have been. The evidence of druid calendars that we have in the form of the Coligny calendar, while not necessarily supporting the idea of "tree" months, does confirm that lunar months were important thus giving roughly 13 months in a year.

    Ben Gruagach
    MysticWicks forum guide in "Paths: Wicca", "Books" and "History"
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  3. #83
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    You brought up some good points. However on you tube there are some realted vidoes that I didn't mention simply because they were not on the sight. But seen its come up:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XHPWO8H5tI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtdsboBFrpE

    She says Lugh is the god of the Swede Celt druids, and that the Swedes used the loin as a symbol because of their long blond hair. It is also inclued that the druids gods where neither male nor female.

    As far as the druid and alchemy I'm sure they could have ran across it, but they did not develope it themselves. Which I think is the idea that she is trying to get across. Yes there are three spirits that could been seen as dryad like but again dryad is a greek word and we are not talking about Greece, please people do not do this.
    As I was walking all alane, I heard twa corbies making a mane, the tane unto the nither did day, What sall we gang and dine the day?

  4. #84
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    "Swede Celt Druids"? WTH? The word Celt denotes a type of language. The Swedes spoke a Germanic language, not a Celtic one...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoirmeacha View Post
    "Swede Celt Druids"? WTH? The word Celt denotes a type of language. The Swedes spoke a Germanic language, not a Celtic one...
    There is a lot of overlap. The Celts did inhabit the lands around the Danube at one point in their history... Remember too that the famous Celtic artifact, the Gundestrop Cauldron, is named after the location where it was found -- Gundestrop, Denmark.

    There's more about Celtic history (including the controversies about what exactly counts as Celtic) at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celt

    Ben Gruagach
    MysticWicks forum guide in "Paths: Wicca", "Books" and "History"
    author of The Wiccan Mystic: Exploring a Magickal Spiritual Path
    visit my website at http://www.witchgrotto.com
    read my LiveJournal blog
    find me on Facebook

  6. #86
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    There were celtic tribes in northern europe in the past. But she also mentions something about the Normans right around there. So if we talking about the latter Viking invasions of the British Isles then they were germanic by that point in time.
    As I was walking all alane, I heard twa corbies making a mane, the tane unto the nither did day, What sall we gang and dine the day?

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gruagach View Post
    -- even if they were bogus sightings, people obviously knew about big cats.
    Seeing as the languages of the Keltoi have far more in common with Sanskrit than Latin or ancient Greek, they definitely didn't originate in Gaul, Ireland and Wales -- in fact, a cursory lesson in history says as much, as several existing ancient Greek authors report first-hand conversations with the wise men of the Keltoi and, for one reason or another, anthropological geneticists have discovered evidence of "Greek" genetics among the modern Irish. Basically, there is no reason to believe that the ancients Keltoi had never heard of big cats -- unless of course, you're one of those people who believes that "Keltic" is just another word for "Irish", or you feel there is absolutely no reason to believe that there is any antropolo9gical evidence for a mass emigration to the islands of Britannia and Erne, in which case: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gruagach View Post
    I'm not sure why you would assume that Druids knew nothing of what we call alchemy today. And knowing the sky-earth-sea trinity was prominent does not exclude the earth-air-fire-water quatrology either. We don't have enough evidence to say it definitely was not there, while we do have lots of evidence that people in the ancient worlds traveled around a lot and therefore there is a really good chance the Druids likely did know about foreign philosophies and religions.
    Well, we also don't have evidence of space travel prior to the mid 20th Century. While it's highly reasonable to believe that they did, at some point and in some ways, incorporate air-fire-water-earth elements, this is because we have evidence that they directly communicated with peoples who had those elements incorporated into their beliefs; while evidence of communicating directly with peoples who could have shared any knowledge that can in any way be defined as "alchemy" is a lot shakier, due to one very simple reason: mystery paths, as these were rather well-known, both then and now, for sharing very little of their knowledge with "outsiders".


    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Gruagach View Post
    While the Druids probably had their own words for the various spirits and entities in Nature, it's not surprising that a modern Druid might use terms commonly understood to refer to the same thing -- calling a tree spirit a dryad is not a stretch.
    It is, though, a stretch to claim one is called such in a Druidic context without any information explaining why one is doing such, and arguably not even then, depending on, basically, how "Recon" one is claiming their path to be.


    Quote Originally Posted by Meadhbh View Post
    She says Lugh is the god of the Swede Celt druids, and that the Swedes used the loin as a symbol ...
    I know you meant to type "lion", but your typo gave the sentence a whole new meaning that I'm sure you never intended. LOL


    Quote Originally Posted by Meadhbh View Post
    As far as the druid and alchemy I'm sure they could have ran across it, but they did not develop it themselves. Which I think is the idea that she is trying to get across. Yes there are three spirits that could been seen as dryad like but again dryad is a greek word and we are not talking about Greece, please people do not do this.
    Exactly. It's nothing more than pulling random things out of a cultural grab bag to use a Greek and (and thus associated Greek concept) of a tree spirit within a Keltic setting. While the Greek nymphai and Keltic sidhe/fae(?) are similar in concept, they're hardly the same, and while some classes of sidhe seem actively malicious toward humans, the typical nymphe classes are generally more ambivalent.

  8. #88
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    Exactly the problem is when people keep using words interchangeably. There is a lot that can be said for dryads and some of the sidhe being the same thing. The cloest one that comes to mind is the Ghillie Dhu prefer birch trees to all others and jealously guard them from humans. Persons traversing enchanted woods must take care not to be grabbed by the long green arms of a Ghillie Dhu, or they could be enslaved into the service of the guardian forest spirit forever. Which is not the actions of dryads as far as I know.
    As I was walking all alane, I heard twa corbies making a mane, the tane unto the nither did day, What sall we gang and dine the day?

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander67 View Post
    through my cyber travels, I have seen MANY sites which would only confuse you if you dont know any better...

    there is alot of disinformation out there, and for someone who is new to paganism, wanting to learn , it is hard.

    my advice to anyone, new or old is to take what you read with a grain of salt. ANYONE can put up a website.. just because a website says the sky is blue on mars, does not mean the sky is blue on mars. Look at the website's author. some sites will quote sources and provide info as to where thier info is comming from. also it is important to watch out for the poopyganda... that is simply when it is sooo obvious that the author doesnt know what they are talking about, but they make it sound good..
    Hey and the burning question?Why is so much disinformation there?Is it christians that are knowledgeable of paganism just because their job is to keep the new 'children' out?Or as I oftently heard some elders that want to keep the craft for themselves?This is very annoying to me.It's been 10 years since I study and I have practically nothing but information and theories and 'elders' contradicting each other,books contradicting each other.Where in the world to look?Where is the truth,so I can practically value my 10 years spent with my nose hidden in books?Who can judge information,who is abilitated enough to say this is hot and this is not?I really need answers.Please have mercy on me...I feel kind of weary and chased up in a loong run or race...race for the truth,for definitions,for the practically practice,for the good,for the bad,for a noble cause..there is a lot...

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLili View Post
    What makes you decide what is and isn't "proper" Paganism? Not being argumentative, but I know a number of witches who consider themselves, at least in part of their practices, Satanic. Or what about the kids who whole-heartedly believe in those D&D deities, to the point of finally researching and attempting to work with them?

    I'm not bagging on you, I promise. All I'm doing is being the Devil's Advocate in this because I have made statements like you just did here. And I had it pointed out to me by one of those D&D worshipping freaks that they had just as much a right to their fiction as Christians have to theirs, and other Pagans have to ours.

    No one has a right to say what is good or bad when it comes to another's beliefs. Not if you purport to believe all religions to be equal.
    Oh yes,about personal beleifs,but when manipulation and disinformation are ravaging good,valuable people where is the justice?If someone hasn't got any right to shed some light on what it is TRUE and REAL and WHAT IT IS NOT why won't they??Will spare others the confusions and lost time Religions are equal yes but note the word RELIGION what the new people want to know is science of the craft,how you learn,how you study,how you apply,how you get the outcomes you want,how to be succesfull and use your time efficiently.That's why they are called Occult Sciences!If do not have the right true info the equasion fails...and leads to dissapointment...

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