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Thread: The Crossroads

  1. #41
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    hi,
    i think hekate was connected with the Y or T formed crossroads.
    her ephitet trioditis connects her clearly with this type of
    crossroads. trioditis- three ways.

    in lagina there were equal armed crosses carved in stones of her
    temple. in asia minor the equal armed cross was a solar symbol
    an hekate was there a goddess with solar attributes- her charakter
    as a goddess with more moon symbolism got popular in roman times,
    through roman influences. lagina was a roman province.
    so the equal armed cross maybe has nothing to do with her crossroad aspects,
    more with her solar aspects from asia minor.

    i read that the x was a symbol for the world soul in some philosophical traditions- and hekate was associated with platons world soul in the
    late antiquity- so maybe there is another connection.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawnmedos View Post
    ... in asia minor the equal armed cross was a solar symbol
    an hekate was there a goddess with solar attributes- her charakter
    as a goddess with more moon symbolism got popular in roman times,
    through roman influences. lagina was a roman province.
    so the equal armed cross maybe has nothing to do with her crossroad aspects,
    more with her solar aspects from asia minor.
    hi dawnmedos, and welcome to the discussion!

    do you have any references for this "solar goddess" attribution? because i don't think i've read that before.

    it is true that Her moon aspect developed later (after the classical period anyway), but i don't think it was due exclusively to Roman influence.
    there are coins from Caria showing Hekate wearing a crescent moon crown as early as the 2nd century BC, a time when Rome's sphere of influence barely reached this area.
    some people are like slinkies -
    not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when they are pushed downs the stairs.

    True enlightenment comes from discovering principles which challenge your spiritual view, not from inventing principles to confirm it.




  3. #43
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    I haven't read all five pages, so if I repeat something, I apologize in advance.

    While it's true that she does represent a crossroads and is associated with the number three (along with Hermes)...to me it is a much more symbolic meaning, in that these two gods can cross all three realms.

    They literally are at the crossroads between above, here, and below. The significance of that and their "availability" to humanity because of that, when you think about it, is very, very important on how we view these Deities.
    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common:
    instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views,
    which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering."


  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by AoibhellFaeryMoon View Post
    Some more links:

    http://www.archaeology-classic.com/turkey/Lagina.html
    http://www.sitesandphotos.com/catalo...nt-147353.html

    From Here: http://tribes.tribe.net/bayareawicca...8-d705cb64f7a7



    I tried to find info on the Hekatesia apparently be revived at the temple in Lagina, but haven't found anything online.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theres View Post
    thanks C+!

    damn, i wish i had known about that lecture. i probably could've made an excuse tio visit my folks in the Bay Area!
    I know, although, even if I had, I wouldn't have been able to make it, but, it sounds interesting. I'd really like to know more about Hecate's Turkish roots (even though I'm a worshipper of Ereshkigal and a Sumerian Recon, I still want to learn more about Hecate, they were equated with each other in Greco-Egypt, now, I don't think they're the same, but, I do think they have some kind of relationship with each other (whether it's an historical connection, or just one they have in their own realms/planes, I don't know)).

  5. #45
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    This has definatley been part of the confusion for me with regards to Hecate's Wheel.

    In looking at the photo provided by Prophecy, it gives what can be described as a outer ring of stones (which i'll refer to as ring A). A secondary set of stones connected to ring A but slightly higher, ring B. Four protruding points enter into the center portion of the ring, from ring B. Appearing to be equally spaced and opposite of each other. Three of them are clear to see, the fourth appears distorted but can be seen across the ring from stone A which is in the right front section. In the center a clear formed well or opening. Now the poster says this was taken at the Hecate site in Lagina.

    Now what causes me to doubt this is that for an item of such clarity and size why is it not pictured or described in any pictorial about said site? If one looks at these pictures no such item can be seen.

    http://www.sitesandphotos.com/catalo...&CurrentPage=0

    If on looks closely at this site, one can possibly see where some features of the posters photo match the site photo. Yet the photo does not provide sufficient detail to confirm it. However, if it is a match why no supporting photo's?

    http://www.lagina.org/index.htm

    If one looks to the background in the Posted photo you can see the structure of a small wall running horizontally in the background. To the right part of the background one can see the possibility of small features that stand out from the wall. On the referenced photo one can see the wall forms a elongated Z shape.

    Unfortunatley, there is no clear photo of the given area to say that is where the "Wheel" structure would be located. Yet from analysis the area identified is the only portion of any picture I have found that could possibly be the photographed area in the original photo.

    Yet I would not state that it is, for as I stated there is not enough evidence to support that conclusion.

    But it makes me wonder if the photo was indeed taken in Turkey then which site is it if not at Lagina? I can't think of any places where a well was part of the lore of the god / goddes.

  6. #46
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    I'm confused.

    I understand the notion of Hecate as a Goddess of a three way crossroads. To me it's a fancy way of saying intersection. I don't see anything in this definition that counteracts anything else.
    Last edited by Dumunzi; November 20th, 2008 at 01:48 AM.

  7. #47
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    lines and line segments.

    Hekate - 3
    Hermes - 4
    together, 7 but that is another discussion.

    If you take a Y and you understand that all of the crossroads is seen as the four-fold is, that hers is an axis between worlds... and you continue the lines on the other side.

    Y becomes becomes a witch-mark... which looks like an asterisk.
    Y is also a witch-mark, it is a stang.
    the crossroads of Y with an inverse Y over it, becomes the four plus the vertical axis of the world tree connecting seas, land and sky.
    T plus an inverse T = a pillar/column
    Three perspectives, three realms, one tree.
    Tsalagi Nvwoti Didahnvwesgi Ale Didahnesesgi
    (Cherokee medicine practitioner of left and right hand paths)
    anikutani.stfu-kthx.net - The Anikutani Tradition

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumedsnake View Post
    In Yoruba religious tradition a distinction is made between 2 types of crossroads. Orita meta and Orita merin. That is the 3 path junction and the 4 path junction. At 4 path junction ebos are made to the orisha and to Esu. At the 3 road junction ebo are made to the Iyami aje, also known as the Witches or the Mothers.
    The witches are also said to reside atop certain trees.
    This, I must look into.
    Tsalagi Nvwoti Didahnvwesgi Ale Didahnesesgi
    (Cherokee medicine practitioner of left and right hand paths)
    anikutani.stfu-kthx.net - The Anikutani Tradition

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoJesi View Post
    lines and line segments.

    Hekate - 3
    Hermes - 4
    together, 7 but that is another discussion.

    If you take a Y and you understand that all of the crossroads is seen as the four-fold is, that hers is an axis between worlds... and you continue the lines on the other side.

    Y becomes becomes a witch-mark... which looks like an asterisk.
    Y is also a witch-mark, it is a stang.
    the crossroads of Y with an inverse Y over it, becomes the four plus the vertical axis of the world tree connecting seas, land and sky.
    T plus an inverse T = a pillar/column
    Three perspectives, three realms, one tree.
    I see a lot of the Covenant of Hekate stuff in this and what looks like some of the things I've seen in various works published by Sorita d'Este but would be curious where the source material is.

    Figure Hermes and Hekate are celebrated at the same Y shaped cross roads and hermes are placed at those locations. Both have ability to enter and exit Hades though some do speculate that Hermes may pass via the Styx and Cheron location and Hekate may also be able to enter and exit through the swamp past the Hydra. But both are clearly tied to the Persephone story as Hermes leads Persephone out of Hades and into the light while Hekate walks behind and illuminates the path for Persephone and becomes companion / potential associate to Persephone.

    The Y shape and it's connection to the core of the apple and a witches mark I know got picked up by the reclaimist movement and from what little i've seen was part of the Covenant mythology. But I am not a member of that group so don't keep up with it or the so called sacred fire rites.

    Part of it also reminds me of Mark Alan Smith's Queen of Hell stuff

    I would be curious to see how you create a stang as everything I've ever seen is a stang is a wooden handled tool with three tines normally coming off of a single knuckle if you can find one and is basically a digging tool or turning tool for working in the dirt and ties it to chthonic work. Many times looking like a rooster foot with a main toe and two side spurs near the main toe or molded with a handle that is fit into a bar where three tines are fit into the bar.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsnoleedra View Post
    I see a lot of the Covenant of Hekate stuff in this and what looks like some of the things I've seen in various works published by Sorita d'Este but would be curious where the source material is.

    Figure Hermes and Hekate are celebrated at the same Y shaped cross roads and hermes are placed at those locations. Both have ability to enter and exit Hades though some do speculate that Hermes may pass via the Styx and Cheron location and Hekate may also be able to enter and exit through the swamp past the Hydra. But both are clearly tied to the Persephone story as Hermes leads Persephone out of Hades and into the light while Hekate walks behind and illuminates the path for Persephone and becomes companion / potential associate to Persephone.

    The Y shape and it's connection to the core of the apple and a witches mark I know got picked up by the reclaimist movement and from what little i've seen was part of the Covenant mythology. But I am not a member of that group so don't keep up with it or the so called sacred fire rites.

    Part of it also reminds me of Mark Alan Smith's Queen of Hell stuff

    I would be curious to see how you create a stang as everything I've ever seen is a stang is a wooden handled tool with three tines normally coming off of a single knuckle if you can find one and is basically a digging tool or turning tool for working in the dirt and ties it to chthonic work. Many times looking like a rooster foot with a main toe and two side spurs near the main toe or molded with a handle that is fit into a bar where three tines are fit into the bar.
    Sorita's stuff is solid, and she gives her sources so if you have access to that material there you go..
    The fourfold and threefold crossroads interect. The three corrosponds to the axis mundi, the four to the four directions.
    Nominally Hekate is associated with the three-fold crossroads and Hermes the four-fold but both can move through both and you can swirch the association to be the inverse side of what is going on. Really we should be talking about which forms of Hekate and Hermes we are talking about as different mysteries are expressed therein.

    In its simplest form, the stang is merely a forced branch of two or three prongs and the relence here is that it represents the world tree/axis and its connection to the number three. I dont know anything about the reclaimist movement. Im not sure what your issue is with the scred fires but that isnt my beef and I dont really care. Im not a memeber of the CoH but I do practice that rite every year and am friends with Sorita,, when I can vett for as doing her research and being hesitant to make absolute claims and have no problem using her as a source. Frankly Id rather have people read her work than to take the time to do what she has already done here.

    From a philosophical point of view we are talking about the vericle and horizontal here and they are different demisnions of the same thing and the crossroads is the crossroads of both. The Greeks and Romans understood this, it is not anew concept. It is inherent within the very concept of space and any culture with even a basic understand of geometry knows this.

    what's more is if you go from a space of the four, through the verticle to another space again being the four... what you have is represented by the symbol of the fourfold crossroads on top and bottom of a verticle line. A reflected image, and if you think of of reflection you have a reversed image. So in that other space Hekate is the four and Hermes would be the three. The disntions we use are from our point of view.
    Tsalagi Nvwoti Didahnvwesgi Ale Didahnesesgi
    (Cherokee medicine practitioner of left and right hand paths)
    anikutani.stfu-kthx.net - The Anikutani Tradition

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