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Thread: What constitutes a non-Wiccan Witch?

  1. #1
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    What constitutes a non-Wiccan Witch?

    Okay I have met a lot of people who are witches who don't consider themselves Wiccan (I am one of them, well kinda, it's a long story). Many times though, I come across people who say that they are not Wiccan but they believe in the great God and Goddess and the gods being aspects of them, they use wiccan ritual structure, celebrate the sabbats, yet do not consider themselves Wiccans because they believe in hexing rapists or other criminals. I am not saying that people do not have the right to define themselves but, in your opinion, are slight changes regaurding the rede and/or the three fold law enough to not be Wiccan anymore? If you feel that Wiccan and witch are seperate, what does it take to be a non-Wiccan witch? Should they have a different view of deity? Do they have to be more folk magic oriented rather than ceremonial? in other words, what constitutes a non-Wiccan witch?

    DISCLAIMER!!!!! I am not insulting anyones path or the right for people to call themselves whatever the hell they want. It's just for debate. Thank you.
    Last edited by Sage Rainsong; May 9th, 2007 at 06:59 PM.
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    People believe they don't have the right to call themselves Wiccan because they are willing to do what they can to take care of rapists and other criminals? That's not what traditional Wiccans are taught, that's the new "Wicca Lite" or the "Fluff Bunny Wicca". It's not what Wicca started out being some 60 years ago. Gerald Gardner called it the Arte of Witchcraft because it was based on witchery.

    Using magic or spells to stop a rapist or help the police to catch one with enough proof to convict him is a good thing to do with magic, for crying out loud. Only asking for the real rapist or child molester to be caught and sent to prison of course, not to make a target out of someone who is only suspected of wrongdoing.
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    Most Wiccans go by "harm none"..but I think some take it to an extreme. While sure...hexing a rapist or whatever could be considered "harming" someone..who cares? It's a rapist .

    To me, that wouldn't make someone *not* Wiccan. Besides, I see Wicca and Witchcraft as two separate things, even though they often intertwine.

    ..but to answer your main questions, I think it's hard to say. If you believe in the "Wiccan way"...and decide that Wicca is what you wanted to follow, then consider yourself Wiccan and go for it...you are one. If your beliefs and practices are too diverse to be classified into one tradition/religion, then...don't consider yourself anything specific.

    I think it's a complicated issue...but it all boils down choice and what you wish to follow. I guess it's the same concept as believe in "God" (I say that as an ultimate god"). You can believe in "God" but still not be Christian.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar Raven View Post
    Most Wiccans go by "harm none"..but I think some take it to an extreme. While sure...hexing a rapist or whatever could be considered "harming" someone..who cares? It's a rapist .
    This is where I will have to disagree, I don't believe that "karma" requires vigilanti witches to speed things along. If you curse (or hex) someone you do so knowing the possible repocussions. I firmly believe that if you choose to exact vengance you need to openly do so to your opponent, otherwise you are acting dishonorably. That's just me.

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    I generally think non-Wiccan witches tend to be more folk magic orientated with their own set ethics. The rede and threefold law isn't amongst their personal morals.

    What differentiates me from Wiccans is that I don't have a Goddess/God in my practice, I have my own set of ethics, I rarely do anything ceremonial (i.e. casting circles, invoking the Goddess, etc.), and I don't really follow the sabbats (I follow the seasons themselves). I haven't been "taught" Wicca nor do I feel comfortable calling myself something that I haven't properly learnt.
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    If you've got everything except the three-fold law and the rede, I'd call you Wiccan, myself. I understand it's a matter of some contention among Wiccans. The very idea of the three-fold law doesn't strike me as very pagan, to be perfectly honest. The Greeks, Romans, Celts, and Norse certainly didn't believe anything like it. As Aristotle said, justice is helping one's friends and harming one's enemies. While I'm not saying that modern pagans need to be like the ancient ones, I certainly wouldn't fault a pagan of any persuasion for rejecting
    the three-fold law or anything like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan Warrior View Post
    This is where I will have to disagree, I don't believe that "karma" requires vigilanti witches to speed things along. If you curse (or hex) someone you do so knowing the possible repocussions. I firmly believe that if you choose to exact vengance you need to openly do so to your opponent, otherwise you are acting dishonorably. That's just me.
    This for the most part I agree with too, actually. My statement was not so much a description of what i'd do personally..just my thoughts on the whole concept of it. The main poster said that someone she/he knows doesn't consider them self a Wiccan because of their belief in using magick against rapists/criminals/whatever. What I was trying to say though, is that I don't exactly think that type of work would make them non-Wiccan. It's not to say that I agree with it, but I wouldn't exactly call that "negative magic", assuming it's something to just stop them. And I agree with the comment on repercussions from it. If you do such magickal workings, you should always keep that in mind.


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    alot of people can be witches with out being wiccan, look at other types of beliefs, more folk magic like voodoo and santaria (sorry if i spelled that wrong) some of them will call them selfs witches, some will not,

    however i believe that alot of the stigma is that people do not want to be associated with wicca at all, alot of it having to do with the fluff bunnies, or the thought that its a religon that is made mostly of angst ridden teens who want to make mommy and daddy mad (yah i know not true but people do think that way)

    i actually had this conversation the other day, about wicca vs witch ect.
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    I consider myself a pagan, I don't define myself as a wiccan.

    I don't follow the ceromonies to much, I do try to follow the sabbats alittle. I use Reiki when I pray. I like to talk to the Goddess sometimes.

    But to consider myself a wiccan? No I consider myself a pagan, mainly b/c I haven't really found the path I wish to walk yet. I know which path I would like to walk, but in the religion and career wise, I'm not quite there yet.

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    I would call myself a Witch, but I am not Wiccan. I do not follow the Rede, do not believe in the three fold law, and I am a hard polytheist. I don't cast circles and I don't use the four elements as part of my path. I follow a Celtic path, worship Celtic gods and open myself to the Three Realms during rituals. However, I consider myself a Witch because I work "low magic" - I use charms, sachets and simples to help achieve my goals. I work with herbs and stones and other gifts of the Earth as part of my path. I don't think there is any set definition of the word "witch" and I don't think I fill any sort of requirement, that is just a title I have taken on myself because I believe it fits.
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