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Thread: What constitutes a non-Wiccan Witch?

  1. #71
    herbal_legends Guest
    I do admit that Wicca is indeed a beautiful religion and I have great respect for anyone who claims to be Wiccan and is true to the religion.

    I just am too stubborn and don't have the patience to adhere to the rules/limitations placed upon me (though some say they are only suggestions). I feel if I can't be true to the religion completely, then I'd rather not place myself under that umbrella.

    Basically my thinking was, { WHY do I need to call the watch towers? WTH are watch towers and what do they have to do with my personal connection to nature....I don't need any third parties thank you! I don't want to cast a circle when I want to cast a spell! WHY do I need all these fancy ritual tools laid out on an elaborate altar? I don't want to honor a Goddess and Horned God because I feel silly doing it and I don't believe it when I am doing it. I'd rather not 'an it harm none, do as ye will'...cuz if I feel I need to harm someone, I'm gonna do it! And I don't need anybody (or thing) telling me what is good and bad....}

    People say that Wicca can be flexible....but flexible in what sense?
    Last edited by herbal_legends; September 27th, 2010 at 03:03 PM.

  2. #72
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    I'll agree that Wicca is too limiting and everyone has their own way of practicing. We need to find our own thing and work with that.

    On another note my brother bought me that book "Hex and Spellcraft' by Karl Kerr. I really can't wait to get my hands on it. The other books, sigh, will have to wait. Going to be looking in the P.O Box for it.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbal_legends View Post
    I do admit that Wicca is indeed a beautiful religion and I have great respect for anyone who claims to be Wiccan and is true to the religion.
    Thanks, you're a doll.

    just am too stubborn and don't have the patience to adhere to the rules/limitations placed upon me (though some say they are only suggestions). I feel if I can't be true to the religion completely, then I'd rather not place myself under that umbrella.
    No one is true to their religion completely. Only an automaton would ever be able to buy into any religion 100%. The fact is that we all get to the point in our growth where we learn, through experience, what is true (for us) and what is false (for use) in regards to a faith. Each person is highly individual in regards to what they need spiritually.

    Honestly, I can worship with nearly anyone on earth comfortably because I realize that all religions are merely a shorthand way in which to approach Deity, none are more right than the others and most are probably far more wrong than right.

    Basically my thinking was, { WHY do I need to call the watch towers? WTH are watch towers and what do they have to do with my personal connection to nature....I don't need any third parties thank you! I don't want to cast a circle when I want to cast a spell! WHY do I need all these fancy ritual tools laid out on an elaborate altar? I don't want to honor a Goddess and Horned God because I feel silly doing it and I don't believe it when I am doing it. I'd rather not 'an it harm none, do as ye will'...cuz if I feel I need to harm someone, I'm gonna do it! And I don't need anybody (or thing) telling me what is good and bad....}
    Well it is important to note that the elements represent psycho-spiritual potentials within us and beyond us. In opening the watchtowers we are actively entreating all of reality (as represented by the elements) to come and participate in this working. On a deeper level we are calling forth the elemental aspects of ourselves to participate. The inner-mind is a real sucker for ritualized work and responds very well to being summoned in this manner. In all our magick we want our conscious and subconscious (or unconcious) mind to be in sync.

    Well, it is my understading and experience that the Goddess and the Horned God are merely Wicca's representation of ineffable, and untimately undefinable, Deity. It is simply that most people can develop of personal relationship more easily with deities represented in some way than with the Absolute Everything/Nothing that is the real Deity at the heart of all things. They are symbols of a totality that is beyond expression, representations that we can relate to and interact with. They are the Yin and Yang of Wicca, the polarities, nothing more, nothing less. They are, ultimately, no more an accurate representation of the Godhead than is Ganesha, Jesus, Allah, or Marduk. In other words they are wrong, but they are as right as we are going to get in this world.

    Also, all of us need to be accountable to something. Maybe its the gods maybe its ourselves, maybe its our community, maybe it's all of these things. It is easy for anyone to lose themselves and slip into some pretty negative things without a quick reference to the ethical code we choose to adhere to. Rules like "Harm None" are a way of guiding one's actions when we would otherwise fall off track. All moral codes are a just a guide even though they are usually more helpful than not.

    People say that Wicca can be flexible....but flexible in what sense?
    I'm a Wiccan who doesn't hold to a simplistic 3-Fold Law or finds palatible a blanket decree of Harm None. I think that the Summerlands are merely a quaint representation of the afterlife and that Wicca needs a greater affirmation of the Self (Higher Self, God-Within, Atman) within the tradition. I am a soft polytheist and in some ways close to monotheistic in my understanding of Deity. I am a Wiccan who practices both Buddhist meditation, Centering Prayer and qigong.

    Wicca is flexible because it is non-dogmatic. Wicca allows for both the subtracting of non-core teachings and the adding of materials that are effective but would have fallen far outside the purview of ancient pagan practice. Wicca is extremely flexible.


    )o( Blessed Be,

    Sundragon
    Last edited by Sundragon; September 27th, 2010 at 07:57 PM.
    Come visit my blog

    Sorcery and Spirit

    where I discuss Magick, Mystical Spirituality and whatever else comes to mind.

    " Wherever you are is home
    And the earth is paradise
    Wherever you set your feet is holy land . . .
    You don't live off it like a parasite.
    You live in it, and it in you,
    Or you don't survive.
    And that is the only worship of God there is."

    - Wilfred Pelletier and Ted Poole

  4. #74
    herbal_legends Guest
    haha Sundragon you always speak so eloquently about Wicca

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbal_legends View Post
    I do admit that Wicca is indeed a beautiful religion and I have great respect for anyone who claims to be Wiccan and is true to the religion.

    I just am too stubborn and don't have the patience to adhere to the rules/limitations placed upon me (though some say they are only suggestions). I feel if I can't be true to the religion completely, then I'd rather not place myself under that umbrella.

    Basically my thinking was, { WHY do I need to call the watch towers? WTH are watch towers and what do they have to do with my personal connection to nature....I don't need any third parties thank you! I don't want to cast a circle when I want to cast a spell! WHY do I need all these fancy ritual tools laid out on an elaborate altar? I don't want to honor a Goddess and Horned God because I feel silly doing it and I don't believe it when I am doing it. I'd rather not 'an it harm none, do as ye will'...cuz if I feel I need to harm someone, I'm gonna do it! And I don't need anybody (or thing) telling me what is good and bad....}
    OMGs... you are Granny Weatherwax. Anybody who has read Terry Pratchett will understand that statement!

    If you haven't read any of The Discworld series by brit author Terry Pratchett...you need to go to the nearest book store as soon as they open...better yet...be there before they open. Then you need to buy all the discworld books, there's 38 I think, and spend they day reading!!

    You make me smile HL! Hugs for that

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbal_legends View Post
    haha Sundragon you always speak so eloquently about Wicca
    Thanks, I do my best.

    What helped me to understand Wicca was to not be Wiccan for a number of years. I studied and practiced many things and have brought that experience back to Wicca. No matter what anyone claims to the contrary, Wicca is a new religion. Sure the gods and many of the concepts are ancient, but the manner in which the faith is practiced is new. Therefore Wiccans have a lot to learn from other faith traditions.

    If I didn't step out of Wicca for a time immersing myself in other things I wouldn't be a Wiccan now. I would probably be either still be a qabalist/ceremonial magician or an Esoteric Christian. It was only by stepping away from the tradtion did I grow to appreciate it. Wicca speaks to me in a visceral way as nothing else does.


    )o( Blessed Be,

    Sundragon
    Come visit my blog

    Sorcery and Spirit

    where I discuss Magick, Mystical Spirituality and whatever else comes to mind.

    " Wherever you are is home
    And the earth is paradise
    Wherever you set your feet is holy land . . .
    You don't live off it like a parasite.
    You live in it, and it in you,
    Or you don't survive.
    And that is the only worship of God there is."

    - Wilfred Pelletier and Ted Poole

  7. #77
    herbal_legends Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by RaeCori View Post
    OMGs... you are Granny Weatherwax. Anybody who has read Terry Pratchett will understand that statement!

    If you haven't read any of The Discworld series by brit author Terry Pratchett...you need to go to the nearest book store as soon as they open...better yet...be there before they open. Then you need to buy all the discworld books, there's 38 I think, and spend they day reading!!

    You make me smile HL! Hugs for that
    Aww thanks
    I just read her bio on Wiki and I am intrigued.
    I'll definitely have to go check out the series now





    Quote Originally Posted by Sundragon View Post

    If I didn't step out of Wicca for a time immersing myself in other things I wouldn't be a Wiccan now. I would probably be either still be a qabalist/ceremonial magician or an Esoteric Christian. It was only by stepping away from the tradtion did I grow to appreciate it. Wicca speaks to me in a visceral way as nothing else does.

    I haven't given up complete hope on Wicca. But I think the last time I admitted to calling myself Wiccan was 8 years ago (wow! almost a decade lol) I still feel like my spiritual journey is just beginning though.

  8. #78
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    I haven't given up complete hope on Wicca. But I think the last time I admitted to calling myself Wiccan was 8 years ago (wow! almost a decade lol) I still feel like my spiritual journey is just beginning though.
    Actually before about six months ago I would have sworn I would have never called myself Wiccan again. I was a hard core ceremonial magician who saw Wicca as a quaint artifact from my younger days. It was only after a couple of powerful spiritual experiences relating specifically to Wiccan practice I realized that ceremonial magick/qabala, though intellectually very stimulating, wasn't my spiritual path in this life.

    Wiccan ritual had opened me up to things that endless repetitions of the LBRP (Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram), the study of Hebrew numerology and bibilcal symbolism never had even after several years of dedicated practice.

    Honestly I have to admit I am a far better mystic than I am a magician.

    Prior to this I had given all my Wiccan books and tools to a friend who was just starting on the path. He was more than a little shocked when I came back to reclaim them. "Guess you gotta spend money on building your own Wiccan library buddy" I thought to myself even if I was too kind to say it.

    You just have to give yourself time, if there is anything that has a long time requirement it is spiritual growth. There is no hurry, Wicca or whatever else you set your sights on will still be there when you are ready. Or you may find that what you are doing now suits you for the rest of your days. Only time will tell.


    )o( Blessed Be,

    Sundragon
    Last edited by Sundragon; September 27th, 2010 at 08:47 PM.
    Come visit my blog

    Sorcery and Spirit

    where I discuss Magick, Mystical Spirituality and whatever else comes to mind.

    " Wherever you are is home
    And the earth is paradise
    Wherever you set your feet is holy land . . .
    You don't live off it like a parasite.
    You live in it, and it in you,
    Or you don't survive.
    And that is the only worship of God there is."

    - Wilfred Pelletier and Ted Poole

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundragon View Post


    Prior to this I had given all my Wiccan books and tools to a friend who was just starting on the path. He was more than a little shocked when I came back to reclaim them. "Guess you gotta spend money on building your own Wiccan library buddy" I thought to myself even if I was too kind to say it.
    I'm usually pretty shocked when people give me gifts and then come and take them back.

    I've never really understood the driving need to have books on Wicca, but I'm lucky to have access to the tradition, so books are more for the enjoyment then necessity.
    Check out my shop for a variety of jewelry, salves, crafts, and more: www.divineessencecreations.com

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  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoseKitten View Post
    I'm usually pretty shocked when people give me gifts and then come and take them back.

    I've never really understood the driving need to have books on Wicca, but I'm lucky to have access to the tradition, so books are more for the enjoyment then necessity.
    Well I implied the books were more an extended loan...however I may have indicated that the length of time would have been far longer.

    I'm a bit of a book fetishist...I am addicted to books....or more accurately addicted to information. Only with great difficulty can I stop myself from buying well received books on Wicca, Witchcraft, magick, metaphysics or spiritual topics in general. I belong to Amazon prime so I get books I order within 48hrs no matter what. Hey, its only $80 a year to provide all purchases with no-cost second day air delivery. At my book buying rate, I would burn through that $80 in standard rate shipping costs in about 6 months.

    Hey, it just about my only vice...so I am going to keep it.

    Also, when it comes to things like Wicca, shamanism, practical magick, meditation ie. things I fundamentally understand, I buy books to see if the author has a different or even more comprehensive point of view. More often than not I am disappointed though sometimes an author really stands out and I say, "Damn, I wish I wrote that."


    )o( Blessed Be,

    Sundragon
    Come visit my blog

    Sorcery and Spirit

    where I discuss Magick, Mystical Spirituality and whatever else comes to mind.

    " Wherever you are is home
    And the earth is paradise
    Wherever you set your feet is holy land . . .
    You don't live off it like a parasite.
    You live in it, and it in you,
    Or you don't survive.
    And that is the only worship of God there is."

    - Wilfred Pelletier and Ted Poole

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