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Thread: Cherry-Picking Vs. Traditionalism

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
    I don't tell anyone "you can't do that" or "you're not really Wiccan." I just make the most of the opportunity to point out what most Wiccans do agree on and maybe what the reasons are for doing things a particular way. I find that educating folks works much better than criticizing them for doing things "wrong."
    Same. I wouldn't outright tell someone that they're doing it wrong, or what they're doing isn't Wiccan (or what have you). I would just point out what Wiccans (or what have you) usually do, so that they are aware that they are going outside a conventional practice/belief. Which, strictly speaking, isn't "wrong".

  2. #92
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    There is nothing wrong with cherry picking, you create your own path. But all the different subsects of religion have specific cores that make them "that subsect" You can cherry pick, but it is no longer X if you change that core, its your own. The titles/labels are there to identify that you believe in the tennants of that subsect, if someone says they are Christian I can quickly gauge there beliefs, if they specify Baptist I know even more, same goes for Wicca, and if they specify Alexandrian, or Ecclectic. It allows you to find people with similar beliefs, and if you change one of those beliefs on your path you shouldn't be identified with that same name.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixrising View Post
    There is nothing wrong with cherry picking, you create your own path. But all the different subsects of religion have specific cores that make them "that subsect" You can cherry pick, but it is no longer X if you change that core, its your own. The titles/labels are there to identify that you believe in the tennants of that subsect, if someone says they are Christian I can quickly gauge there beliefs, if they specify Baptist I know even more, same goes for Wicca, and if they specify Alexandrian, or Ecclectic. It allows you to find people with similar beliefs, and if you change one of those beliefs on your path you shouldn't be identified with that same name.
    You summed up my opinion very well.
    If you're looking for a pissing match, please look elsewhere. I know what I can do, and don't need to defend it, or be competitive about it. I don't enjoy conflict, so please choose someone who does. Sincere questions are, of course, welcome. Blessed be.

    I have a blog now at LiveJournal. It's uncut raw emotion, so proceed with caution, if that sort of thing bothers you.



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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calli View Post
    You summed up my opinion very well.
    mine too!

    Do what you want, but call it what it is, basically.
    little zombies by p. robertson
    i was by zetta

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixrising View Post
    There is nothing wrong with cherry picking, you create your own path. But all the different subsects of religion have specific cores that make them "that subsect" You can cherry pick, but it is no longer X if you change that core, its your own. The titles/labels are there to identify that you believe in the tennants of that subsect, if someone says they are Christian I can quickly gauge there beliefs, if they specify Baptist I know even more, same goes for Wicca, and if they specify Alexandrian, or Ecclectic. It allows you to find people with similar beliefs, and if you change one of those beliefs on your path you shouldn't be identified with that same name.
    Perfect!
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombi View Post
    mine too!

    Do what you want, but call it what it is, basically.
    I agree. If you do one thing and call it another, that sort of invalidates the terminology. Especially for someone like me, who is just learning the terms. I'm not a newbie, I've just spent years cherry picking, and never bothered with learning the terms. And now, I'm here, where everything is defined. I hate being ignorant, so I'm learnin'. lol
    If you're looking for a pissing match, please look elsewhere. I know what I can do, and don't need to defend it, or be competitive about it. I don't enjoy conflict, so please choose someone who does. Sincere questions are, of course, welcome. Blessed be.

    I have a blog now at LiveJournal. It's uncut raw emotion, so proceed with caution, if that sort of thing bothers you.



    Have you ever been in a battle of wits, only to realize that your opponent was unarmed?

    The only person who has to like you is the one you see in the mirror every day.
    Ironically, if she does, others will, too.



  7. #97
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    Greetings,

    I adamantly agree that if one is using a name or label that is defined by specific, unique identifiers ("tenets", beliefs, customs, practices, teachings, etc.), one should either conform to those specific identifiers or else create a new name or label by which the new practice may be known. Otherwise it's rather like "bait and switch" for the new Seeker, isn't it? They arrive thinking they know where they are and just as they're preparing to sign on they find out no, it's really not that, it's something else. And for those who don't know the name or label being used it's nearly as demoralizing, since when they do finally encounter it the best they can hope is to learn that they've no idea what they are actually doing.

    Best to take the high road from the start and be clear about what one is doing, even if that means that for a time no one knows what it is that you're about.

    As to the concept of "cherry-picking", I am not against starting new spiritualities, but...

    There are ethical and unethical ways to do it and most people do what is expedient. Being expedient doesn't make it right. One basic measure of the ethics of an idea or method is to look at the likely consequence in the light of Natural/Metaphysical Laws that govern the cause-and-effect of existance across all spiritualities and belief systems. Popular books on Neopaganism seldom address the Laws, but those of us who have studied them know what they teach: That everything is connected, that the closer the connection the greater the influence which may be exerted, and that this influence can travel both ways... Therefore,
    taking and using parts of existing traditions imposes influences upon the sourced spiritual paths (and those that follow them); influences which they cannot foresee and to which they have not consented.

    There is some real resistance to acknowledging and addressing the implications of this fact. Many Neopagans have justified borrowing by saying that they are actually helping to conserve the paths they borrow from, but this belies the very definition of the word "tradition". A tradition exists only where it is continued. A practice that is unrecognisable to the tradition bearers doesn't "carry on" the tradition; it supplants it. There really is no getting away from that unpleasant fact...
    The reluctance to recognising and addressing this problem has led to a schism between Neopagan and native/traditional paths, despite that these are the very people who have the most to teach us... Pure self-interest would seem to argue for reconsidering the ethics of certain approaches to "cherry-picking" --

    But that's a discussion for another time.
    Last edited by Morgaine_cla; June 4th, 2009 at 03:46 AM.
    * Three first parts of Understanding: An Eye to see what is; A Heart to feel what is; and a Boldness that dares to follow them. *

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Elise~ View Post
    As a Reiki master...distance reiki is reiki.

    Cherrypicking is not the same wiggle room. When you take parts from one and then another and combine them, you have something new.

    MY personal opinion is that you should name it something entirely different so as not to be confused with either original.

    Elise
    I would agree.

    Cherry picking is a rather derogatory term, as well. I think Eclecticism is probably the better term to call pulling what you like from different paths and creating something new.

    I do believe that it is insulting to those that do follow a specific Tradition to actually be Eclectic, yet still want to identify as a specific Tradition.

    In my experience, it's image over substance, and intellectually dishonest.
    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common:
    instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views,
    which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering."


  9. #99
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    ....
    Last edited by ~Nixie; February 17th, 2012 at 01:44 PM.

  10. #100
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    I cannot read Cuneiform. That doesn't stop me from working with Mesopotamian deities. I do not claim that my stuff is 3000 years old. I do not claim my Way is the only Way. I *am* interested in reading anthropology to find out how they used to do it, so I can modify what I do, but I am not a reconstructionist. My Way is only correct for *me*. I also don't claim to be of a Religion I am not practicing.

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