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Thread: Can people direct karma?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Hill View Post
    I didn't want to go into too much detail. I speak out against this organization (I shudder to call it a coven) whenever I can, but I was more interested in the principle here.

    Yes, there was money involved and that should have been a massive red flag. But this group preys on many who can't find people of their faith nearby and makes them pay for access to their faith community - which is heavily censored and run by some very manipulative people.
    Sounds familiar.

    And I will say, I myself charge for readings and consultations - and often online. But my primary goal is to help people and share knowledge. I have NEVER turned down someone who needed a free or discounted service, and I have NEVER hidden the nature of my services before a payment was assessed. And I don't make the hundreds of thousands a year that the people at that organization make - far, far from it. If I went down to work at McDonalds (another organization that makes me shudder), I would make a better annual income. But I do what I do because it's fulfilling.
    I'm not normally asked to do consultations or services for people, but whenever I am I always do it for free (if I have the time, and if it seems like the person really needs it). But as long as you do what you do first and foremost because it's fulfilling to you I see no reason to comment on how you conduct your business.

    Again, thanks to those who posted.
    You're welcome, I hope we've helped you.
    Last edited by Darth Brooks; May 10th, 2009 at 07:37 PM.
    My God is a real Ass; He butchered the Dying-and-Rising Lord, He stole the Eye from the Hawk, He sires the Children of Rebellion, and He lusts after God and Goddess alike. Every green and growing thing shrivels into dust at His touch; every convention is violated by the seed of His loins. He brings drought and infertility to the land, and He has no respect for the crook or the flail. Yet without Him, the slave would never break free from his bondage, the evil serpent would devour the sun, and the future would never come to pass.

    The song of the tempest is His name.


    Khepher-I-Suti

  2. #12
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    I totally agree with your first post - karma is a force of nature not something we can control and inflict on others. I think whoever threatened to set their karma on you was talking out of their rear - hopefully they'll learn their lesson
    Seek freedom and become captive of your desires, seek discipline and find your liberty.

    Adam and Meagan sitting in a tree K I S S I N G

    Founder of the Soli-Tarty movement - Pagan tarts unite (in my bedroom)

  3. #13
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    Interesting thread for sure. Unsure and guess it can be done of course.


  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xentor View Post
    I believe some people treat karma as they treat their gods: as slaves.

    No, karma does not work that way. To have karma rip you to shreds, your actions would've had to have been atrocious on a cosmic scale. Personal disgruntlement hardly even registers.
    This.

    People cannot create karma for you and then send it to you in the same way they could bake some cookies and mail them to you. It is your thoughts, words and deeds that will create your karma - not those of others. That's their trip.

  5. #15
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    Arrogant or not, there are more than a few spells that have made the rounds over the years that actually can turn a person into a "karma magnet" with the consequences of their actions begin hitting them a lot harder and a lot faster than is normal for the person. Some of these spells are known as "turning the wheel" after the idea that you can give the karmic wheel a little push.

    There are also a wide variety of "boomerang" spells that cause the person they are cast on to have things "bounce back" at them. Such as, a girl tries to break you and your boyfriend up and she ends up driving her own boyfriend away while bringing you and yous closer together.

    None of these spells actually do anything to karma, either the caster's or the castee's. The caster merely sets up the raflection, its the castee's thoughts and actions that are reflected. Though the caster's intent may be to make the castee miserable, the effects are entirely within the castee's control. To those who cannot tell the difference, it appears that you have done something to the person's karma, when in fact all that has been done is to hold up a mirror to show what they are doing to their own karma.

    Should I use these spells? Depends I suppose on what I use them for. I taught a variation of a reflection spell to my daughter to try and help her reflect the voices she hears away from her. She adapted it to help her stop cutting as well. My younger son uses it on his older brother, a lot. Older son has a talisman that would protect him against his little brother's tricks, but since the older son converted to Christianity, he won't wear it.

    Do I think your past coven mates have one of these spells up their sleeve? You would know that better than I do. Odds are, if they did, they would have used it already. Have things been better or worse for you of late, or is life whatever passes for normal in your existence? If things are normal for you, then they either don't have a spell of this type or you aren't doing anything screwy to yourself. Either way, if you suddenly do find things going wonky in your world, do random acts of kindness until things even out for you.

    Just remember, all of this advice is coming from someone whose parents met in a mental hospital.:hehehehe:
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    Not all witches are love and light, nor are they all hate and darkness.
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    You cannot carve a beautiful sculpture in stone with loving strokes.
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  6. #16
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    Hey ya, Darth. I'm actually always looking for how people feel on the topic of charging for magical services, even when they disagree. I thought long and hard about charging. Right now in my life, it's pretty much a moot point because I only make a couple of thousand a year for such services. But I do think it's fair to be compensated when - and only when - people can afford it. Coming to that point was a big struggle for me, which is why I'm always wanting to hear opinions about it. Also, my coven sets limits on how much someone can earn per year before having to give all the rest to charity. I'm not saying everyone should do that, but it's how I work. This may even be a topic for another thread, but I thought I'd mention it here.

    Xentor, I like your cookie analogy.

    Terra, excellent comments from you, too. I used to cast what I called "reciprocity" spells. They couldn't change karma, but they could change time. The result was that the person's karma caught up to them more quickly. I have now stopped doing this on the following assumption. If someone is having trouble learning one lesson, they are going to be even more stumped if multiple lessons come calling. They will probably become overwhelmed and could give up before they actually try to become better persons. Therefore, I don't reflect negative energy. I just let the universe sort that out on its own. But that's just my personal philosophy, and I might very well make an exception if someone I loved were being threatened.

    Someone also mentioned that people at this old "coven" might be casting spells against me (but I can't find it looking back over the responses just at the moment). Yes, they sometimes do, but it hasn't presented a problem so far. I will seek help if I need it, but I'm thinking I probably won't; I've taken a lot of time in the past working on psychic self-defense and that work has kept me safe so far. Also, this group doesn't know or teach a whole lot about protection, which has worked to my advantage.
    Blessings,
    P. Rex

    My website: http://www.bookofspirals.com
    My blog: http://www.bookofspirals.com/blog
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Hill View Post
    Ok. I was recently looking over some old e-mails I got from the leadership of an online coven when I left about a year ago. There are several messages where people say things like, "We still care about you" or "We'll always respect you despite your leaving" or whatever. But then the same people (often in the same messages) say things like, "I hope karma busts your a$$" or "If I have anything to do with it, karma will rip you to shreds over this."

    So, I don't get it. Are they talking about karma "teaching me a lesson" as totally separate from their wishes and actions or are they spurring karma on (and I know some of these people well enough to think it's the latter)?

    Here's why this is important to me: I don't think karma can be directed by persons - in fact, I think it's pretty arrogant to think so. Yes, I can tell someone to be careful how their actions will return to them, but I can't tell them what I want or hope karma will do.

    I see karma as a force of nature - like gravity. It would be really silly of me to try to enforce gravity. That's why I'm always puzzled when people try to use karma as a weapon. What do you think? Should we try to dictate, speed up, slow down, etc. people's karma - or is it silly to think it's even possible? I know I've already tipped my hat as to how I feel on this topic, but I still encourage anyone to disagree with me if they feel differently.
    I think it's best to get on with things, do your very best in everything you want to do and let karma take care of itself.

    nesta


    No man is so good as to be free of evil, nor so bad as to be worth nothing.
    Norse Proverb



    The coward believes he will live forever, if he holds back in the battle, but in old age he shall have no peace.
    Norse Proverb

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Hill View Post
    Ok. I was recently looking over some old e-mails I got from the leadership of an online coven when I left about a year ago. There are several messages where people say things like, "We still care about you" or "We'll always respect you despite your leaving" or whatever. But then the same people (often in the same messages) say things like, "I hope karma busts your a$$" or "If I have anything to do with it, karma will rip you to shreds over this."

    So, I don't get it. Are they talking about karma "teaching me a lesson" as totally separate from their wishes and actions or are they spurring karma on (and I know some of these people well enough to think it's the latter)?

    Here's why this is important to me: I don't think karma can be directed by persons - in fact, I think it's pretty arrogant to think so. Yes, I can tell someone to be careful how their actions will return to them, but I can't tell them what I want or hope karma will do.

    I see karma as a force of nature - like gravity. It would be really silly of me to try to enforce gravity. That's why I'm always puzzled when people try to use karma as a weapon. What do you think? Should we try to dictate, speed up, slow down, etc. people's karma - or is it silly to think it's even possible? I know I've already tipped my hat as to how I feel on this topic, but I still encourage anyone to disagree with me if they feel differently.
    If by Karma you mean as it is understood in the East, it arises out of ones interactions and pathworking, so you do direct your own Karma though most do it unaware. Becoming aware of ones karma, the ongoing process thereof, one is not caught up or ensnared it, and thus escape the unbalanced patterns and incarnations they've been trapped in.

    As for what people make of karma i don't know.... but i can tell you that people who talk of Karma the way you've described how only an appropriated understand of what it is, and thus are unable to work their Karma let alone influence someone elses... Karma is in essence the relationship between ones actions/will and ones obstacles and consequences ie. fate. Karma is an expression of the Dharma- the work, being on the path. What you do this moment dermines what path is emerging before you. This relationship is Karma.

    If i wanted to mess up someones Karma, I've got to get them to do it because it arises from them, so what I'd do is cast something to get them to work against themselves, their own best interests... so they'll be too busy with karmic obstacles to bother me. To be honest, the nastiest stuff out there gets people to beat themselves up under their own power.

    so simply put, keep mind of yourself, where you are at, what you need to do for the best possible path. If you work on you, the less they will be able to manipulate you and your karma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Blue View Post
    I'd replace "Western" with "bastardized," but that's just me.
    Tsalagi Nvwoti Didahnvwesgi Ale Didahnesesgi
    (Cherokee medicine practitioner of left and right hand paths)
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  9. #19
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    As understood by Eastern Traditions such as Buddhism and Hinduism I don't think there is any way that karma can be manipulated or directed.
    I used to believe in karma but don't think I do anymore.
    It occurs to me though that a witch could in theory manipulate "anything" including karma or at least, people's belief in it.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anima Nera View Post
    As understood by Eastern Traditions such as Buddhism and Hinduism I don't think there is any way that karma can be manipulated or directed.
    I used to believe in karma but don't think I do anymore.
    It occurs to me though that a witch could in theory manipulate "anything" including karma or at least, people's belief in it.
    It is one of those things whereby if you have to ask the answer is no.
    Karma is an expression of the Dharma (work, discipline) whereby if you are doing what you need to be doing on your path, your karma will resolve to meet those needs.
    It is like following the Tao, if you have to manipulate your Karma, you wont be able to because you're already ensnared in that pattern.
    Karma changes when you change, when your behavior changes... once in motion it must resolve...
    Manipulate i think is the wrong word, it is self determined, yet it is a reaction... essentially that's all it is, the consequence ill or good of the Dharma or lack thereof.
    And as the consequence is a self-manifested trial and obstacle I don't think you can manipulate it without manipulating yourself.

    Yet, mastering this causation of self is attested, as it required in the escaping of Samsara, the wheel of reincarnation... of patterns and also life to life if you recognize reincarnation, which is said to be rooted therein.
    However I don't think the word overcome is appropriate either, because really you don't break the wheel so much as embrace and become the wheel itself, and sometimes this is depicted as being in the center thereof, a nod to inner locus.

    Speaking of Buddhism, the idea there is that to manipulate karma, one needs yo engage in right though, right speech, right action etc....
    while various schools have their reservations on what these are, ultimately all that is known is that it will be the right think to do.
    There aren't any absolute guidelines because everything is a) ever changing and b)the perceptional situation is always different...

    The great thing there, is that what "right action" etc. is, is going to be different for each individual.
    In this regard it isn't unlike the "True Will" we see in Thelema.

    How can anyone really say then how to manipulate it toward a given result.
    i wouldn't say you could manipulate karma like a fetch or servitor to go out and accomplish some goal...
    Nor do i think it is that specific.
    'good karma' i would say, is when things more smootly because you are in a state of inner balance, and things unfold accordingly.
    It creates a pathos to follow, being more clearly defined because you aren't in conflict with yourself and thus not manifesting a turbulent and unstable pathway.

    from my experience this does grant one greater influence and control in their magic(k)
    so perhaps, karma isn't something to be manipulated so much as the mechanics of being able to manipulate,
    when the self is in proper synchronization with all its aspects.
    Because when you are on that track you really don't need to cast after the fact.
    There's the recognition that everything you do is an act of correspondence, a magic(k)al act.
    Thus everything you do becomes proactive, of doing without 'doing' and things tend to go your way.
    Last edited by Humming Bird; October 30th, 2015 at 01:49 PM.
    Tsalagi Nvwoti Didahnvwesgi Ale Didahnesesgi
    (Cherokee medicine practitioner of left and right hand paths)
    anikutani.stfu-kthx.net - The Anikutani Tradition

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