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Thread: warrior path?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taliesyn View Post
    okay, so I got to thinking. how do we reconcile warrior paths mentality ( honor, defence, martial skills) with rencarnation? I'm not trying to get into a discussion of "harm none" but what is the thoughts of folks? how do actions that harm another affect our spiritual growth?

    in another regard, I work as a healer, and I am a warrior. is that a way to balance it? It was common in Native american peoples for old warriors to become medicine people....
    It depends on your path.

    For example, in Hellenic Polytheist Reconstructionism, one follows the Delphic Maxims, which include:

    Help your friends (Φιλοις βοηθει)
    Guard friendship (Φιλιαν φυλαττε)
    Watch out for your enemies (Εχθρους αμυνου)

    With the above three combined, that means treat your friends as friends and treat your enemies as enemies. If you don't defend your friends against your enemies and theirs, then you have compromised your ethics (in this path).

    Also:
    Despise evil (Κακιαν μισει)
    Pursue honor (Δοξαν διωκε)
    Guard what is yours (Ιδια φυλαττε)
    Despise insolence (Υβριν μισει)
    Die for your country (Θνησκε υπερ πατριδος)

    However, violence is restrained by:
    Shun murder (Φονου απεχου)
    Control yourself (Αρχε σεαυτου)
    Be overcome by justice (Ηττω υπο δικαιου)
    Gain possessions justly (Δικαιως κτω)
    Venture into danger prudently (Κινδυνευε φρονιμως)
    Control anger (Θυμου κρατει)
    Be jealous of no one (Φθονει μηδενι)

    See: http://www.flyallnight.com/khaire/De...ims/maxims.htm
    Αλεξανδρα Δοροθια βωνδ
    http://helleneste.wordpress.com/
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    I begin to sing of Pallas Athene, the glorious goddess, bright-eyed, inventive, unbending of heart, pure virgin, saviour of cities, courageous, Tritogeneia. From his awful head wise Zeus himself bare her arrayed in warlike arms of flashing gold, and awe seized all the gods as they gazed. But Athena sprang quickly from the immortal head and stood before Zeus who holds the aegis, shaking a sharp spear: great Olympus began to reel horribly at the might of the bright-eyed goddess, and earth round about cried fearfully, and the sea was moved and tossed with dark waves, while foam burst forth suddenly: the bright Son of Hyperion stopped his swift-footed horses a long while, until the maiden Pallas Athene had stripped the heavenly armour from her immortal shoulders. And wise Zeus was glad. And so hail to you, daughter of Zeus who holds the aegis!
    - THE HOMERIC HYMNS - XXVIII. TO ATHENA

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LisaT4P View Post
    It is all well & good to say, "If you're acting in self-defense, then you are justified and will be forgiven" but how do forgive yourself if you are committed to not harming others?

    For most from my knowledge we do not see not harming others as a part of our mantra. However, that is not to say the amount of damage or pain inflicteed is not a thing of consideration for us.

    But I think a better question is "How do you forgive yourself if you do nothing?"

    I may have to strike out at someone who is hurting me, but that doesn't mean that I wanted to do it, or enjoyed doing it.

    I must have missed something here for who has said anyone gains enjoyment from it or that we really want to do it? It's more a matter of being willing to fight and ready to do so, not something that we seek out as a rule from my experience.

    It was a necessary action. It is really easy to intellectualize it if you haven't had to do it and have no first-hand experience of the inner conflict that this causes.

    What conflict? Most I know again spend more time going over what they did, what could have been done different and how they could have done better.

    We worry about our karma,

    Sorry for me it's more damaging to my Karma if I do nothing and am untrue to my pathwalk and calling.

    we worry about doing the right thing.. and to some even

    Yes and some are made to be cattle driven with the heard.

    acts of self-defense would be considered harming someone else.

    At times the surgeon must cut away the dead and dieased flesh. The same is true of the warrior path.

    How do you reconcile those beliefs with your actions?

    Nothing to reconcile.

    If your intention and love is healing, how do you justify self-defense or any other type of harm to yourself? How do you NOT think that it is damaging to your karma in some way? That it won't affect how your next incarnation will be?

    As I stated it's far more damaging to my karma to do nothing upon my pathway than to stand for what I believe to be right. Besides who said love and healing is the warrior path? Your comparrison is to close to the notion of Wicca not Warrior.

    Do you take the responsibility that any action

    Yep. I take resposibility for any action I undertake or perform. I take it in the name of my pathwalk and I stand by it and before it before the gods / goddesses that I worship and follow.

    that causes harm to another will affect your future incarnations?

    Yes Just as I know that failure to follow my pathwalk and notions of honor and commitment to it can affect / effect any future incarnations.

    Do you hope that the healing work you do will help to offset the "negative" balance?

    I'm not a healer or medicine man so the healing work I do is not of that nature.

    I feel that you can't take responsibility for the actions of another.

    Don't have to nor are we asked to do so. However, we do have to take responsibility for ours.

    If someone places themself in harm's way by offering violence, and you are forced to respond in kind, then the onus is on them. But, even believing that, and knowing that... I would probably still question myself.

    We all question ourselves. Question how we might have done differently? How we might have avoided the conflict that followed? Through the questions do we refine and broaden our abilities. But as a warrior I also know that at times I do not have the ability to question and must follow my teachings and conditings.

    In that light we must also be willing and ready to respond.

    It reminds me of the Mighty Mighty Boss-tones song "Knock on Wood".
    I think part of the problem lies in the notion again of what is a warrior path? The Samuari and the Ninja both follow the warrior path and posses many of the same skill sets. Yet the rules and guidance of each is of such a difference that they are completley different in the morales and honor of the sets.

    The War Chief holds medicine that is equal to that of the practioner that overseer's the herds and crops, the practioner that uses their magics against an opposing force's crops or herds. All hold medicine equal to the guiardians of the sacred relics or items. All also follow the warrior's pathway and will fight and kill if necessary to protect and defend their charges.

    One thing many forget is that the warrior many times walks on the grey line. We know and learn both sides and how to use each equally and posses the willingness to do so. We can't defend or protect against a thing unless we know it also.

  3. #13
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    Ah, but you see... Tal is a Wiccan. He is also a Warrior. He is also a Healer and a Teacher. I'm sure there are others who follow many paths, and I think the question was more, how do you reconcile the different moral codes of each path (if any) with each other? Which is what I was round-about trying to get to with my post. LOL

    I am not a Warrior. I don't identify in this way. I do identify as a Healer and a Teacher. But, I will defend myself and loved-ones if needed as would anyone else. And I know that I would question myself & my actions afterwards.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LisaT4P View Post
    Ah, but you see... Tal is a Wiccan. He is also a Warrior. He is also a Healer and a Teacher. I'm sure there are others who follow many paths, and I think the question was more, how do you reconcile the different moral codes of each path (if any) with each other? Which is what I was round-about trying to get to with my post. LOL

    I am not a Warrior. I don't identify in this way. I do identify as a Healer and a Teacher. But, I will defend myself and loved-ones if needed as would anyone else. And I know that I would question myself & my actions afterwards.
    I was trained by a Wiccan Warrior so that may have influenced my philosophy on what Wicca's core beliefs about defending ourselves and our friends and our country are like. As someone else pointed out, passive resistance can also be a Warrior's path. At any rate, I'm not aggressive or war-like, yet I would certainly defend myself, my family, my friends, my way of life, and my country.

    I'm mainly a healer and a teacher, and I don't feel there is separate and conflicting moral code for each of those aspects of myself. I think one can be Wiccan and be anything, although I would have trouble relating a mass murderer to the Wiccan path.


    Tal ... have you read Wiccan Warrior: Walking a Spiritual Path in a Sometimes Hostile World by Kerr Cuhulain? I've only read a few excerpts but you might find it helpful in sorting through your feelings about this issue.
    Last edited by Lunacie; May 21st, 2009 at 05:28 PM.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by *~Amora~* View Post
    It depends on your path.

    For example, in Hellenic Polytheist Reconstructionism, one follows the Delphic Maxims, which include:

    Help your friends (Φιλοις βοηθει)
    Guard friendship (Φιλιαν φυλαττε)
    Watch out for your enemies (Εχθρους αμυνου)

    With the above three combined, that means treat your friends as friends and treat your enemies as enemies. If you don't defend your friends against your enemies and theirs, then you have compromised your ethics (in this path).

    Also:
    Despise evil (Κακιαν μισει)
    Pursue honor (Δοξαν διωκε)
    Guard what is yours (Ιδια φυλαττε)
    Despise insolence (Υβριν μισει)
    Die for your country (Θνησκε υπερ πατριδος)

    However, violence is restrained by:
    Shun murder (Φονου απεχου)
    Control yourself (Αρχε σεαυτου)
    Be overcome by justice (Ηττω υπο δικαιου)
    Gain possessions justly (Δικαιως κτω)
    Venture into danger prudently (Κινδυνευε φρονιμως)
    Control anger (Θυμου κρατει)
    Be jealous of no one (Φθονει μηδενι)

    See: http://www.flyallnight.com/khaire/De...ims/maxims.htm
    Thanks for posting that, the Delphic Maxims seem, IMO, like very good guidelines to follow, I especially like the Help your Friends parts, controlling yourself and distancing yourself from evil.

  6. #16
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    Lemme ask the fans of penance something: do you or do you not believe in the basic concept in the craft that to create you must destroy? Do you believe (as it sounds to me you beieve) that destruction is always bad and that there is no place for the blade in the craft? Maybe it's because I'm a Libra, but that's a really basic part of all this for me. War, as horrible as it is, exists to keep balance in the universe. Cruelty must be balanced with kindness and war with peace, but one can't exist with out the other. I'm not saying that these things are right, simply that they can only be balanced, not destroyed.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by David19 View Post
    Thanks for posting that, the Delphic Maxims seem, IMO, like very good guidelines to follow, I especially like the Help your Friends parts, controlling yourself and distancing yourself from evil.
    Thank you! I think it's important to contemplate how to combine them into an overall approach to living life.
    Αλεξανδρα Δοροθια βωνδ
    http://helleneste.wordpress.com/
    http://www.hellenion.org

    I begin to sing of Pallas Athene, the glorious goddess, bright-eyed, inventive, unbending of heart, pure virgin, saviour of cities, courageous, Tritogeneia. From his awful head wise Zeus himself bare her arrayed in warlike arms of flashing gold, and awe seized all the gods as they gazed. But Athena sprang quickly from the immortal head and stood before Zeus who holds the aegis, shaking a sharp spear: great Olympus began to reel horribly at the might of the bright-eyed goddess, and earth round about cried fearfully, and the sea was moved and tossed with dark waves, while foam burst forth suddenly: the bright Son of Hyperion stopped his swift-footed horses a long while, until the maiden Pallas Athene had stripped the heavenly armour from her immortal shoulders. And wise Zeus was glad. And so hail to you, daughter of Zeus who holds the aegis!
    - THE HOMERIC HYMNS - XXVIII. TO ATHENA

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by *~Amora~* View Post
    Thank you! I think it's important to contemplate how to combine them into an overall approach to living life.
    That's very true .

  9. #19
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    I had to edit this a little so that I'd come off a little less abrasively.

    Mahatma Ghandi and other pacifists are not warriors. Being a warrior requires no "spiritual balance" or anything like that. A warrior is someone who goes to war and fights. Warriors are aggressive, atleast to some extent. Warriors fight and kill or atleast are trained and ready to do so. Warriors live by a code, and there are a variety of those.

    In regards to warriors being able to heal, my response is why wouldn't they be able to heal? I'm a warrior and I'm combat lifesaver certified. That means that I can perform rudimentary and possibly life saving first aid during combat in lieu of a medic. What about Army combat medics and Navy fleet marine force hospital corpsmen? Those guys are warriors and they are experts at healing and saving lives.

    In regards to reincarnation and spiritual development, my interpretation of that question focuses a bit more on the latter, so I'll go with that. I think being a warrior (i.e. someone who goes to war and fights and kills) is good for one's spiritual development. Combat veterans possess a kind of wisdom that most other people do not have. They have seen things that others haven't and never will and those things have most likely changed them. They now look at the world in a different way, no longer sheltered by ignorance, atleast not in that area. I think having the blinders taken off and seeing the world for what it really is, on many levels including the spiritual, is a step in the right direction.

  10. #20
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    I wouldn't think of it as "Harm None", the wiccan Harm None doesn't fit with a warrior path. Rather think, "Is this Justified?" Are you defending yourself or your kin? Are there others ways to accomplish your goal?

    Hurting others isn't "evil", hurting others without cause is bad.

    Animals in nature must kill to survive and feed their young, animals are not "evil" they are surviving, they are living the way life wants them to live. Humans have the capacity for violence, but we also have reason, there is a time and place for both.

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