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Thread: The New Hermetics

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaosxmage View Post
    This is off topic, but I started the thread

    You say it's structured more like Argentum Astrum than the Golden Dawn. I've never peered too deep into those orders, but I always imagined they were part of the same line of thought and practice. How is is that they differ?

    --Kaos
    It's group-oriented vs. individual-oriented. The G.'.D.'. had a visible body of members, lodge meetings, business, discussions, officers, etc. If you were a 0=0 initiate, you learned from a range of people depending on their expertise, had people helping you along, etc. It would resemble a cloud if lines of relationship were drawn

    The A.'.A.'., by contrast, would resemble a tree. The early 0=0 A.'.A.'. initiates studied with Crowley, and were given basic assignments, but generally expected to make their own way, judge their own progress, and form their own ideas with minimal guidance. After time, they took on students, who took on students...the authority was linear, but decentralized, because students would not necessarily know of each other, and might be learning slight variants on the original material due to the particular understanding of their superior/initiator.

    The New Hermetics seems to have gone one step further and removed even a necessary superior, but rather provide the information openly. Open Source Argentum Astrum-style studies, much like the T.'.G.'.D.'., as opposed to the OSOGD which provides Open Source Lodge materials.

    My group, for example, was set up using OSOGD materials, but is looking increasingly like an A.'.A.'. configuration within the membership...the people who are most serious are contacting me outside of formal meetings for more information, and doing most of their work apart from the less-committed members.
    Sidhe

    If I wanted your opinion, I'd read it in your entrails.


    My astral realmz; let me show you them.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidhe View Post
    It's group-oriented vs. individual-oriented. The G.'.D.'. had a visible body of members, lodge meetings, business, discussions, officers, etc. If you were a 0=0 initiate, you learned from a range of people depending on their expertise, had people helping you along, etc. It would resemble a cloud if lines of relationship were drawn

    The A.'.A.'., by contrast, would resemble a tree. The early 0=0 A.'.A.'. initiates studied with Crowley, and were given basic assignments, but generally expected to make their own way, judge their own progress, and form their own ideas with minimal guidance. After time, they took on students, who took on students...the authority was linear, but decentralized, because students would not necessarily know of each other, and might be learning slight variants on the original material due to the particular understanding of their superior/initiator.

    The New Hermetics seems to have gone one step further and removed even a necessary superior, but rather provide the information openly. Open Source Argentum Astrum-style studies, much like the T.'.G.'.D.'., as opposed to the OSOGD which provides Open Source Lodge materials.

    My group, for example, was set up using OSOGD materials, but is looking increasingly like an A.'.A.'. configuration within the membership...the people who are most serious are contacting me outside of formal meetings for more information, and doing most of their work apart from the less-committed members.
    I see the difference, and how you relate it to The New Hermetics pretty clear now. Thank you!

    --Kaos
    “Nothing alive is the same from moment to moment. To live is to face the unknown over and over again.“

  3. #13
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    I just received my copy in the mail. Sidhe, you're on the hook for a refund if I don't like it I'm joking of course.

    I'll let you know what I think as I work my way through it.

    --Kaos
    “Nothing alive is the same from moment to moment. To live is to face the unknown over and over again.“

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaosxmage View Post
    I just received my copy in the mail. Sidhe, you're on the hook for a refund if I don't like it I'm joking of course.
    OH NOEZ!!!

    The only thing I don't like is sometimes it veers into pop-psychology self-help jargon...but as Newcomb is a hypnotherapist, that's possibly just the lexicon in which he's used to working.

    I'll let you know what I think as I work my way through it.

    --Kaos
    His variant of the LBRP = Pure Win.
    Sidhe

    If I wanted your opinion, I'd read it in your entrails.


    My astral realmz; let me show you them.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidhe View Post
    OH NOEZ!!!

    The only thing I don't like is sometimes it veers into pop-psychology self-help jargon...but as Newcomb is a hypnotherapist, that's possibly just the lexicon in which he's used to working.
    I'm a Hypnotherapist as well. I should be able to comb through the jargon. On a side note, Phil Farber is also a Hypnotherapist.

    --Kaos
    “Nothing alive is the same from moment to moment. To live is to face the unknown over and over again.“

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaosxmage View Post
    I'm a Hypnotherapist as well. I should be able to comb through the jargon. On a side note, Phil Farber is also a Hypnotherapist.

    --Kaos
    It seems to be a popular occupation among occultists.

    I'm surprised there aren't more librarians, honestly. All the correspondences and such are basically a catalog of reality. I've been working, in fact, on a cataloging schema based on the Tree of Life...inherent metadata FTW!
    Sidhe

    If I wanted your opinion, I'd read it in your entrails.


    My astral realmz; let me show you them.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidhe View Post
    His variant of the LBRP = Pure Win.
    I've got to the Initiate work in the book. So far I'm really enjoying the way he writes. He's included enough R.A.W. ideas, and very well veiled Chaos Magick theory that I'm very excited to continue the book. It appears that he's included a great deal of NLP techniques as part of the work. That's very nice as well!

    Now, I read through the variant of the LBRP. I like it, but what makes it the pure win in your eyes?

    --Kaos
    “Nothing alive is the same from moment to moment. To live is to face the unknown over and over again.“

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaosxmage View Post
    I've got to the Initiate work in the book. So far I'm really enjoying the way he writes. He's included enough R.A.W. ideas, and very well veiled Chaos Magick theory that I'm very excited to continue the book. It appears that he's included a great deal of NLP techniques as part of the work. That's very nice as well!

    Now, I read through the variant of the LBRP. I like it, but what makes it the pure win in your eyes?

    --Kaos
    I like it because it strips it down to the essentials. No sectarian imagery, just the essence of the ritual. Now, I think learning the various forms of banishing pentagram rituals other than his is extremely important, but his provides the basic rubric of the core ritual.

    Personally, I used to feel uncomfortable with the Judaeo-Christian imagery of the traditional LBRP. It's like the difference between seeing a blueprint and a fully decorated house - they may express the same thing, but the curtains are up in one.
    Sidhe

    If I wanted your opinion, I'd read it in your entrails.


    My astral realmz; let me show you them.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidhe View Post
    Personally, I used to feel uncomfortable with the Judaeo-Christian imagery of the traditional LBRP. It's like the difference between seeing a blueprint and a fully decorated house - they may express the same thing, but the curtains are up in one.
    I'm in agreement. My mind nor soul could ever get behind the Judeo-Christian underpinnings in the LBRP or much of what constitutes western magick. That's part of my enjoyment with this book so far. I haven't seen any of it yet. I've been involved with Chaos Magick for over a decade, but that paradigm just couldn't sit with me - and I was never in my life raised to Christian I just don't like it.

    I did follow your link to the Open Source Order Golden Dawn, and I'm intrigued by their stripping away of those elements in favor of Pagan thought and practice. I'm going to read through their material soon as well.

    I'm a definitely an occultist and some kind of pagan at heart, and Odin (among others from other pantheons, especially Isis) has always been my guide in these studies - whether they be archetypes, real, or imagined. Thus far ol' one eye hasn't expressed the sense of stop. In fact, I find it interesting that while meditating on Odin walking among us and wondering what he would explore, I had the very real impression to explore these ceremonial approaches after I abandoned this school of learning a decade ago.

    Anyway, that's off point. Thank you again for sharing your insight.

    --Kaos
    Last edited by kaosxmage; January 1st, 2010 at 02:44 AM.
    “Nothing alive is the same from moment to moment. To live is to face the unknown over and over again.“

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaosxmage View Post
    I'm in agreement. My mind nor soul could ever get behind the Judeo-Christian underpinnings in the LBRP or much of what constitutes western magick. That's part of my enjoyment with this book so far. I haven't seen any of it yet. I've been involved with Chaos Magick for over a decade, but that paradigm just couldn't sit with me - and I was never in my life raised to Christian I just don't like it.
    I wasn't raised Christian either. My background is Thelema and that generalized "Celtic paganism" that pervades my area due to the large number of Scots and Irish families. I became more comfortable with traditional ceremonial magick after learning more about Judaism when my sister converted, though Christianity still gives me headaches.

    I also had a very strange experience where - as a teenager - I had constructed some basic visualizations and rituals for myself. Ten years later, I was researching the Feri tradition and discovered that my self-designed rituals and ideas were almost identical to some of the Feri practices. Were there a Feri group locally, I would pursue this in more depth.
    Sidhe

    If I wanted your opinion, I'd read it in your entrails.


    My astral realmz; let me show you them.

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