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Thread: Why Shouldn't "I" Laugh?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cielamara View Post
    I don't think faith is the result of FLAWS in human psychology. More like quirks. A controlling mechanism? Sure, for many people. But that is not necessarily the default.
    How is the belief, adamant or otherwise, not ultimately a control mechanism and/or flaw? Such a phenomena can essentially make someone do anything, wait, it kind of does.

    Our ignorance is not so vast as our failure to use what we know. ~ M. King Hubbert

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Grey View Post
    How is the belief, adamant or otherwise, not ultimately a control mechanism and/or flaw? Such a phenomena can essentially make someone do anything, wait, it kind of does.
    Honestly, it depends on what you believe. If you believe that your sky daddy told you to kill the infidels, then yes, it'd probably be a control mechanism and a serious flaw. However, if you happen to believe that your sky daddy likes to booze it up and celebrate life...that's a bit more open to interpretation and thus probably less controlling.

    Furthermore, people can and will do what they damn well please. Someone who believes they should kill infidels might or might not actually do it. They might think they haven't got the stomach for killing and just live and let live instead. Therefore, not so much a controlling mechanism. It can only control someone that is willing to allow it to control them. And that comes down to the individual's will, not to the belief itself.

    Your mistake is that you're assuming everyone with spiritual beliefs has a strict code by which they must abide and, in fact, DO abide that is inherently harmful. For a lot of folks, that's just not the case.
    The possibilities are endless.

  3. #93
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    Only reading the first page, and it's disheartening.

    Negates the whole purpose of coming to a Pagan/Spiritual forum.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Grey View Post



    And then you go on to a condescending opinion piece. I mean seriously, I've over 11 000 posts on my account, you have over 15 000 - we've met on the board. Are you really suggesting you believe I might consider it appropriate to mock people in all circumstances? You're either insulting my intelligence or not doing yours justice.




    Heh, I walk the line constantly.
    No Iggy, clearly I'm not suggesting you believe it is appropriate to mock all people in all circumstances.
    But when do you think it is not appropriate to mock the beliefs of deists?
    😈 "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." Anton LaVey 😈

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cielamara View Post
    Honestly, it depends on what you believe. If you believe that your sky daddy told you to kill the infidels, then yes, it'd probably be a control mechanism and a serious flaw. However, if you happen to believe that your sky daddy likes to booze it up and celebrate life...that's a bit more open to interpretation and thus probably less controlling.

    Furthermore, people can and will do what they damn well please. Someone who believes they should kill infidels might or might not actually do it. They might think they haven't got the stomach for killing and just live and let live instead. Therefore, not so much a controlling mechanism. It can only control someone that is willing to allow it to control them. And that comes down to the individual's will, not to the belief itself.

    Your mistake is that you're assuming everyone with spiritual beliefs has a strict code by which they must abide and, in fact, DO abide that is inherently harmful. For a lot of folks, that's just not the case.
    Nope, I did not and have not made the mistake of assuming everyone with spiritual beliefs has a strict code by which they must abide and, in fact, DO abide that is inherently harmful. Are you now taking a leaf out of Cassie's book and have decided to insult my intelligence too?

    There are other evils to religious belief than witch burnings and planes crashing into buildings. It could be as simple as someone believing that Asclepius has granted them uber healing powers - or that a person can read another's aura, and gives advice to said persons based on that reading.

    In most cases, it's simply a case of... WHY?

    Our ignorance is not so vast as our failure to use what we know. ~ M. King Hubbert

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Grey View Post
    Nope, I did not and have not made the mistake of assuming everyone with spiritual beliefs has a strict code by which they must abide and, in fact, DO abide that is inherently harmful. Are you now taking a leaf out of Cassie's book and have decided to insult my intelligence too?
    Yes. Duh.
    (kidding. God.)

    There are other evils to religious belief than witch burnings and planes crashing into buildings. It could be as simple as someone believing that Asclepius has granted them uber healing powers - or that a person can read another's aura, and gives advice to said persons based on that reading.

    In most cases, it's simply a case of... WHY?
    If it's a case of WHY, it's also a case of WHY NOT?
    The possibilities are endless.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cielamara View Post
    If it's a case of WHY, it's also a case of WHY NOT?
    Because there is no real reason to.

    Our ignorance is not so vast as our failure to use what we know. ~ M. King Hubbert

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Grey View Post
    Because there is no real reason to.
    Sure there is.
    The possibilities are endless.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Grey View Post
    Virtually every human being capable of great horrors, provided we can shift the blame - The military have been using this little loop hole in human psychology since... the first military. So long as you feel you are justified, that you're doing the will of a higher power, and can the right wheels click - a good person can slaughter children. Heck, it's pretty much the same principle used in AA and it's 12 steps.

    Religion offers the ultimate in a higher power, the apex authority.
    Im somewhat on the fence about this subject because I can also see Cielamara's point of view that if it weren't for religion those same people might have been manipulated using another means, however I do agree that religion can used as a motivator for "good people to do evil things".

    Although it's a bit unfair to focus on that one possible aspect of religion and painting it with one brush.

    Overall im going to agree with you and add to it.

    People in general respond to a person that is coming from an authoritive position. You could argue that is just a part of human physcology and that it wouldn't matter if that authority came from the king or god, but I believe that the concept of god takes that bit of physcology to a higher level because it's coming from a supreme being not another human that happens to be your leader. When viewed this way it makes sense that an average person would be more open to adhere to that higher sense of authority.

    If you look at the Milgram experiment we can conlude this to be the case, that people tend to respond to authority and do things they normally wouldn't do.

    I'll go further using this physcological part of human nature. People respond to power and authority, from their rearing all the way up until they are grown adults this authoritive figure that has been ingrained into our physcology remains. Leaders using this can rally people as a whole to do things like slaughtering another ethnic group in the name of their god(s) that normally the person wouldn't have done if it weren't for that supreme authoritive figurehead that they where taught since birth.

    Im also going to tie Cognitive dissonance into it in that people can always use religion as their justification that may conflict with other beliefs they have such as "im a good person" - even though they are killing innocent children.




    _______

    ETA - I will also point out that in the Milgram experiment the results varied by how distant the person of authority and the test subject was.

    If the person of authority was closer they where more receptive. This can be viewed a few different ways but the theory is that they viewed them as a more authoritive figure since they are right there telling you as opposed to someone thats distant - also this is because it's easier for them to shift the blame onto the other person of your actions. If it's some distant person you feel more as if you yourself at making the decision.

    They also varied by how far the test subject was. Thats because if they are very close to you it feels more personal - the further away the more detached you are from the situation.

    This seems to support the theory that having a supreme personal authority would go a long way in influencing someones actions as opposed to a human authority, which also makes a convienient being to always be available to shift the blame toward.
    Last edited by Vampiel; May 15th, 2010 at 04:50 PM.

  10. #100
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    What boggles my mind is how morality seems to be forced by religion. The Commandments say, "thou shalt not". Some religions say "harm none", and so on.

    Forced "right behavior" based on fear of something coming back to you three times, or burning in hell *does* create sepsis. Because right behavior without right intent creates a sort of hypocrisy that rears its ugly head in the worst times. People who do good because it's fear based isn't really doing good, is it?

    It seems to me that religion isn't really required to be a good person or to even do the right thing. And what really *is* the right thing? Morality is largely subjective.

    Various philosophies that are not theologies provide the same thing.
    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common:
    instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views,
    which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering."


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