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Thread: Why Shouldn't "I" Laugh?

  1. #21
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    Oh, everyone has some sensitivity these days that they feel should be respected. Gag me.

    If you allow others to control your emotions, thats your problem. Its choice. Who controls your emotions, you or others?

    Laugh all you want IG!!

    I know I do when I feel like it.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiel View Post
    For the record I laughed my ass off reading the OP's post.

    If someone laughs or criticizes me for being a non-theist or not spiritual (such as saying being non-spiritual means I hypthosize about the meaningless and emptiness of the world - in fact its quite the opposite), I actually laugh at them for it - and can back up my thoughts with well thought out logical reasoning for my world viewpoint. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, in fact quite amusing.

    However im not one to go around being rude to every person I meet. It also doesn't have to be context of religious beliefs but basic manners in general. I agree the world owes you *nothing* but that doesn't mean you should go around being a jerk or rude. Insecurity is a two way street in this regard - one being offended by someone critizing your belief - two bringing someone down because of it when they werent being an ass to you; meaning it makes you feel better to look down on everyone else and use insults to fill your own insecurities (*read catcher in the rye).

    If someone inquires my thoughts I will share them - if you do that you are opening yourself to criticism.

    In short no there is no reason for you to not laugh, but their is no reason to be a complete asshole to peoples faces because they are religious. If you want to be able to socialize and make friends with people that don't hold your own belief (or rather non-belief) that would be a reason to be courteous and respectful as opposed to simply blowing them off and laughing at what they believe. If you don't think that would be benificial to you - by all means; keep laughing outward at religious people that you encounter.
    Well said, and, some Atheists (and some religious people) don't seem to be like that, like, for example, Christopher Hitchens, who said he doesn't respect Quakers (I wonder what he has against people who are pacifists?), Muslims, or anyone else who is religious. I don't know anything about his family, but, I'm guessing he doesn't respect any of them, if they believe in God(s), or go to a religious institution.

    I've seen a few Atheists who seem to take the stance that all religious, or spiritual, people are idiots, or deserve to be made fun of, which, again, is just ignorant and rude. For example,the Dalai Lama, and many Buddhists (including the Buddha), Martin Luther King Jr. and many other religious people are probably greater than Dawkins or Hitchens.

    I've also seen on a gay forum I'm on some Atheists think that the only "true" religious people are the conservative fundamentalists, and liberals are just "deluding" themself, so, I guess Martin Luther King Jr. was "deluded", Buddha, Ghandi, many other great religious people. Dawkins also once, arrogantly, said the most intelligent scientists do not believe in God(s), or anything religious, which is utter BS, I've heard Stephen Hawkings, a brillant scientist believes in God, but, more akin to the Deist God, not a personal God (i.e. doesn't take an interest in human affairs or the running of the universe, from our POV anyway), Albert Einstein, from the quotes I've seen of him, seems to be almost Pantheistic (seeing God as the universe), Carl Sagan was Agnostic/Pantheistic.

    Also, I'm not just attacking Atheists in this regard, I also don't like it when religious people do the same, when they either attack (verbally or other) or make fun of other people, whether they're of another religion or Non-Theistic, IMO, it all boils down to being immature, lacking respect, and just pathetic, IMO. If someone is so hung up on making fun of others, who happen to hold different beliefs (or no beliefs), if they can't respect the path someone has choosen to follow, that makes them happy, they're just quite sad, IMO. I believe in empowering others, in letting them find their own path to walk in life, that makes them happy, that minimises their (or even leads to no) suffering, whether it involves a God, or Gods, or no God at all, or whether it involves magic or not, or anything. I don't believe people should be made fun of, or even picked on, maybe it's 'cause I experienced that in school and don't want to see it happen to others.


    Quote Originally Posted by DoktorSick View Post
    You have to laugh.It's hard not to laugh when an otherwise sane adult comes at you with a straight face and says they talk to angels and what not. They expect you to go along for the ride and not say anything.And if you express any sort of disagreement all of sudden you are attacking there beliefs.
    And since there is so much good material you can't help but sit back and enjoy the show.Each belief system has it's own brand of humor. For example you have Islam the perpetual straight man. They are way to serious and that is understatement. Just google boob quake. The muslim guy that started all of that was dead serious when he said that women in revealing clothes cause earthquakes. How can you not laugh at that. And then there is the whole christian creationist thing.Then Scientology ,that's like what would have happen of George Lucas or Gene Roddenberry had decided not to make movies but start a religion.
    Then you have the pagan new age crystal warriors and the list goes on and on.
    And the king of them all the Church of the Subgenius just look at Bob's smiling face you know you want in on the joke.
    So, basically, you take the stereotypes of all religions and laugh at them, and treat them as though they are representative of all religious people?, since you're American, would you like it if everyone treated you like you were a walking stereotype (e.g. obese, stupid, ignorant of the world, etc)?.

    BTW, would you laugh at someone who said their religion had given them hope, and helped them, through a dark time (be it being raped, a Holocaust survivor, child abuse, whatever, etc)?.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinkle View Post
    I have no compassion for idiots. Talk to me about purple chipmunks hanging out with the Druids in Atlantis....and well - you (the general you) have got it coming.

    And I don't want to hear anything about "big meanies" because of it. If you (once again, the general you) open the door by talking about it, you should be able to back up what you say. If someone asks you about the historical accuracy of Druids in Atlantis, and some sort of proof about the existence of purple chipmunks - you'd better damn well better be able to articulate it with something other than "it's pre-history".

    If not - you will get pummeled. And you will deserve it.
    Somewhere out there, there probably IS someone who believes wholeheartedly that there are purple chipmunks in Atlantis with druids. Can you imagine their altar?

    I am undecided about this. I do not necessarily treat all religious beliefs with the same degree of solemnity. For example, I will fully admit to laughing my ass off when, shortly after Avatar came out, some guy strolled up to otherkin.net and announced he had found his true identity and spirituality...you can guess what it was. But if I had talked to the guy myself, I probably would have still been polite, because...it costs me nothing to be nice to people.

    Really. It costs nothing to just keep your mouth shut and be amused on your own time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shanti View Post
    Oh, everyone has some sensitivity these days that they feel should be respected. Gag me.

    If you allow others to control your emotions, thats your problem. Its choice. Who controls your emotions, you or others?

    Laugh all you want IG!!

    I know I do when I feel like it.
    And no one has ever said anything that's hurt your feelings, Shanti? Lucky you. It's easy to say "WELL YOU SHOULD JUST CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS" when you aren't the one being hurt by something, isn't it? I mean, I do my best to maintain control of how I react to something, and for the most part I'm pretty successful. But if someone's straight-up being an asshole to me, chances are, despite my best efforts, it may still upset me. Is that MY fault? Or should they have refrained from being an asshole in the first place?

    I'm not saying we should tread on eggshells to keep from offending people. But I also don't think it costs anything to refrain from laughing in people's faces.
    The possibilities are endless.

  4. #24
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    I think this is something that goes both ways. Laugh all you want, Ig, its your right and your freedom of speech on this site. I hear it all the time from my boyfriend (who is probably the most militant atheist I know). But with that also comes respect, I think. Or maybe courtesy is a better word. Its courteous to be kind and sympathetic to anothers beliefs, or to just avoid religious conversation all together sometimes (like at work). People don't like to be ridiculed, sometimes its better to just remain curteous and let them be. Luckily MW has a paths section specifically with these protections in mind. I think on your point (and others) who want to laugh a balance needs to be held between helpful discussion and criticizing.

    On the other hand, sometimes people are too sensitive. Its not fair that you should have your freedom of speech taken away simply because others have hurt feelings. I agree that if one is strong in their beliefs your ridicules shoudn't affect that. With those people a balance needs to be found between what is malicious and what is not. In other words, don't be so sensitive.

    So I see both sides. I see why people become upset and I also see your right to laugh as essential.

    Count me as on the fence.

  5. #25
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    Lots of a opinions! Glee! I shall reply to them in an orderly fashion that may not be chronological... and by orderly I mean by which ever bloody way I feel like.

    It seems some of you have misinterpreted the nature of this thread - I am not asking to permission or validation to laugh at people's deeply held beliefs, I'll do that anyway. I'm asking for a reason not to - why making fun of those who believe in God(s), or anything spiritual, would make me "mean, bitter and/or pathetic"?

    I do not feel "mean" as a whole - I'm not bitter about anything really and pathetic? Well I'm guessing being pathetic is kind of like being insane, you're usually the last one to find out the nature of your condition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf O Volos View Post
    Maybe because this site IS for spiritual conversation? And you seem to have ZERO spiritual belief? ~ Shrug~
    I knew someone would pull this card out

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf O Volos View Post
    Laughing at people's spritual beliefs is rude. Pretty simple. You find it funny, good on you. So find a forum that is NOT based upon spirituality, and have a good time hypothesising about the emptiness and meaningless surrounding you.
    I could go on a massive objurgation over the double standards present on the board regarding the approach people take with the non-theists - but it would derail the current topic - though I will reference this post a little later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf O Volos View Post
    That is what I am getting at in my previous post. Fine if you feel a need to have a laugh. Or if you think little purple bunnies being the messenger of the toaster goddess is funny... Discuss it in a forum that is there FOR laughing at them. Find a Anti-theism forum like the Paths forum this thread is in, and keep it here. If you ARENT a Celtic Reconstructionist, and arent really even INTERESTED in knowing about Celtic Reconstructionism, Stay The F Out of the Celtic Paths forums.
    Wow, your second post reflects the double standard again! You make too easy and too hard.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf O Volos View Post
    Outright mockery is against the one rule this site has always supposedly subscribed to, that being RESPECT. Making sure to follow every forum, and have a laugh at every single belief that doesnt fit the bill for you ( generalized ) is disrespectful. End of.
    Naturally I you missed the point of the thread. Congratulations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cielamara View Post
    Spirituality is a really personal thing. One of THE most personal things there is. I fully admit to being sensitive as hell, but it HURTS when someone makes fun of what I believe in. One can make the argument that if I were "truly secure" it wouldn't bother me, but like I said, faith is PERSONAL, and it's something that lives in the softest and squishiest parts of our souls. And since no one can TRULY know if they're right or wrong about what they believe, it's really tough sometimes to stand firm and go "Yes, I believe this, and I also believe you're an asshole" if someone's standing there making fun of you for it.

    If someone's in your face about what they believe, then sure, make fun of them for it. But if you're just talking to someone and they go, "Yeah, I believe in _________", then it's mean-spirited to point and laugh. I've had people do that to me, and yes, I managed to stay calm (believe it or not) but I was still kinda stung.
    You would be equally stung if someone pointed a laughed at your taste in clothes, you choice of music, literature, the car you drove, and so on. The whole in your face, rudeness on a personal level is not quite what I'm talking about.

    What you fail to recognize is, it's not always about mocking, or being mean spirited - but honestly finding a proposition so absolutely ridiculous as to warrant a busting at the seams. The fact that someone believes in these insane propositions usually inspires me to laugh harder and/or cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toriach View Post
    In my experience there are some people in this world who have decided that any person holding a belief they happen to disagree with is not deserving of even the least bit of basic civility or common courtesy.
    Indeed there are, but there is a difference between someone that does not respect opposing positions and someone that does not take ridiculous positions seriously. I'm sure if you're the holder of the ridiculous position you will not see it that way.



    Quote Originally Posted by Twinkle View Post
    Tolerance (at least to me) doesn't mean that anyone has to accept anything about any religion or practice.
    And tolerance goes both ways - so, you know...
    Tolerance in the context means: a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own. I'm fair, I am objective when I need to be and I've never denied someone their reasonable right to religious or spiritual practice or expression of.

    Quote Originally Posted by David19 View Post
    Well said, and, some Atheists (and some religious people) don't seem to be like that, like, for example, Christopher Hitchens, who said he doesn't respect Quakers (I wonder what he has against people who are pacifists?), Muslims, or anyone else who is religious. I don't know anything about his family, but, I'm guessing he doesn't respect any of them, if they believe in God(s), or go to a religious institution.
    He's brother (Peter) is basically the polar opposite to Christopher, you can see their dynamic in this debate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmnVQLOd9Lg

    Christopher has been quite clear regarding why he doesn't respect the beleivers of the world - he views them as cowards; could you respect a person living in hole who was to afraid to stand up and outside the hole? A person so afraid they will be willing to die and/or kill to avoid looking out of the hole? That's how Christopher sees the religious, that's why I doesn't respect them.

    I've seen a few Atheists who seem to take the stance that all religious, or spiritual, people are idiots, or deserve to be made fun of, which, again, is just ignorant and rude.
    Rude yes, but not ignorant. One can hold idiotic beliefs without being terminally stupid.

    For example,the Dalai Lama, and many Buddhists (including the Buddha), Martin Luther King Jr. and many other religious people are probably greater than Dawkins or Hitchens.
    Martin Luther King Jr had enormous secular backing... do you know the leader's names? I bet you don't.

    The Dalai Lama? Which one? What have any of them really done that was greater than any other leader?

    I've also seen on a gay forum I'm on some Atheists think that the only "true" religious people are the conservative fundamentalists, and liberals are just "deluding" themself,
    There is a philosophical hypothesis, of which Dan Dennett is a proponent of, that there is essentially two types of believers - the minority of the group that are the True Believers; these are the people that truly believe in god(S), that are willing to sacrifice everything they and/or someone else has in the name of their belief. The second group is the "Believers in Belief". The group that believe in believing, that have invested so much of their lives into the appearance of belief, the lifestyle that they'll adamantly defend those beliefs.

    so, I guess Martin Luther King Jr. was "deluded"
    In some ways he was.

    Buddha, Ghandi, many other great religious people.
    Yup.

    Dawkins also once, arrogantly, said the most intelligent scientists do not believe in God(s), or anything religious, which is utter BS,
    Nope, it's true. Statistically speaking, most scientists do not believe in personal gods or gods at all.

    I've heard Stephen Hawkings, a brillant scientist believes in God, but, more akin to the Deist God, not a personal God (i.e. doesn't take an interest in human affairs or the running of the universe, from our POV anyway),
    A deist is indistinguishable from an atheist in any practical sense.

    Albert Einstein, from the quotes I've seen of him, seems to be almost Pantheistic (seeing God as the universe), Carl Sagan was Agnostic/Pantheistic.
    Same thing with Pantheists and Agnostics - check out the lifestyle of a Pantheist, Deist, Agnostic and an Atheist... you tell me if you can tell the difference. lol

    it all boils down to being immature, lacking respect, and just pathetic, IMO.
    It's matter of why? Why should I respect someone's beliefs when they're usually based on nothing more than a warm fuzzy feeling? I could say such beliefs a pathetic...



    This has been fun - not a real answer yet! Just, double standards and "cause it's mean".

    Our ignorance is not so vast as our failure to use what we know. ~ M. King Hubbert

  6. #26
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    Laugh on, darling.

    I can tell you two things that are laughable.

    1. Is that so many people misunderstood you.

    2. If half of these posts would have been made in any other path specific forums about said paths there would have report buttons breaking everywhere. :rollingla I love the stench of hypocrisy in the morning, it makes me laugh even more.
    Previously known as Njorun Alma


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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by David19 View Post

    I've seen a few Atheists who seem to take the stance that all religious, or spiritual, people are idiots, or deserve to be made fun of, which, again, is just ignorant and rude. For example,the Dalai Lama, and many Buddhists (including the Buddha), Martin Luther King Jr. and many other religious people are probably greater than Dawkins or Hitchens.
    For hoot's sake. I've seen a few religious people threaten to kill scientists and I have heard Christians say that Carl Sagan was a demon sent from Satan to lure the children of God away from God with his scientific talk that seeems to make sense.

    And yes. I don't see anything wrong at laughing my ass of at people who thought Carl Sagan was a demon sent from hell. It sure as heck beats harassing them and telling them to... I dunno... burn in the sun?

    All this forking upset because we laugh at people? You have every right to laugh at me, why shouldn't I be able to laugh at someone who tells me I'll burn in hell? I am supposed to show outmost respect for someone who just told me I'll burn in hell? Where's the respect in that, or is respect only reserved for those with belief?
    Or are WE supposed to be superhuman and show respect for people who don't show respect for us?
    If you're a reasonable person and don't shove your purple unicorngod in my face and if you're showing me respect then I'll show you respect, but I reserve the right to laugh at you if you don't show me respect.
    And thinking that we should be judged by other standards than everyone else just because we don't believe in a frikkin God is something I think is highly disrespectful.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Grey View Post
    Lots of a opinions! Glee! I shall reply to them in an orderly fashion that may not be chronological... and by orderly I mean by which ever bloody way I feel like.

    It seems some of you have misinterpreted the nature of this thread - I am not asking to permission or validation to laugh at people's deeply held beliefs, I'll do that anyway. I'm asking for a reason not to - why making fun of those who believe in God(s), or anything spiritual, would make me "mean, bitter and/or pathetic"?
    You didn't make it entirely clear in your initial post what you were looking for, honestly.

    I do not feel "mean" as a whole - I'm not bitter about anything really and pathetic? Well I'm guessing being pathetic is kind of like being insane, you're usually the last one to find out the nature of your condition.
    I don't think it makes you bitter or pathetic. Maybe a little mean and trollish. Depends, really.

    You would be equally stung if someone pointed a laughed at your taste in clothes, you choice of music, literature, the car you drove, and so on. The whole in your face, rudeness on a personal level is not quite what I'm talking about.
    This is true. Well, maybe not my choice in music. My music collection is pretty godlike.

    What you fail to recognize is, it's not always about mocking, or being mean spirited - but honestly finding a proposition so absolutely ridiculous as to warrant a busting at the seams. The fact that someone believes in these insane propositions usually inspires me to laugh harder and/or cry.
    In THAT case...well, okay. I agree with you here. There ARE some things out there that people believe that are just pantswettingly hilarious. See "otherkin" and "Avatar" in the same sentence.

    Indeed there are, but there is a difference between someone that does not respect opposing positions and someone that does not take ridiculous positions seriously. I'm sure if you're the holder of the ridiculous position you will not see it that way.
    How do you determine what's ridiculous, though? Are some people "safe" from ridicule?

    Christopher has been quite clear regarding why he doesn't respect the beleivers of the world - he views them as cowards; could you respect a person living in hole who was to afraid to stand up and outside the hole? A person so afraid they will be willing to die and/or kill to avoid looking out of the hole? That's how Christopher sees the religious, that's why I doesn't respect them.
    Hey, some of us with spiritual beliefs are also hardcore scientists. Don't be too quick to assume it's an either/or thing.

    It's matter of why? Why should I respect someone's beliefs when they're usually based on nothing more than a warm fuzzy feeling? I could say such beliefs a pathetic...
    Warm fuzzies don't have value?

    This has been fun - not a real answer yet! Just, double standards and "cause it's mean".
    Oh, Iggy.
    The possibilities are endless.

  9. #29
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    Fuel added to the drama fire I guess.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Njorun Alma View Post
    For hoot's sake. I've seen a few religious people threaten to kill scientists and I have heard Christians say that Carl Sagan was a demon sent from Satan to lure the children of God away from God with his scientific talk that seeems to make sense.

    And yes. I don't see anything wrong at laughing my ass of at people who thought Carl Sagan was a demon sent from hell. It sure as heck beats harassing them and telling them to... I dunno... burn in the sun?
    Those people do indeed deserve to be laughed at. I guess for me the line comes in when people are being judgmental assholes. Once that line is crossed, game on.

    All this forking upset because we laugh at people? You have every right to laugh at me, why shouldn't I be able to laugh at someone who tells me I'll burn in hell? I am supposed to show outmost respect for someone who just told me I'll burn in hell? Where's the respect in that, or is respect only reserved for those with belief?
    Or are WE supposed to be superhuman and show respect for people who don't show respect for us?
    If you're a reasonable person and don't shove your purple unicorngod in my face and if you're showing me respect then I'll show you respect, but I reserve the right to laugh at you if you don't show me respect.
    And thinking that we should be judged by other standards than everyone else just because we don't believe in a frikkin God is something I think is highly disrespectful.
    Well, depends, again. What do you consider to be "shoving purple unicorngod in your face"? Like, if we were sitting there having a beer and you were like "I'm ______(whatever your belief is), this is what I believe" and I said, "Oh, okay. Well, I happen to believe in a purple unicorngod. I know, sounds crazy, but I had a vision a couple years ago..." would THAT offend you? It wouldn't offend me if the situation were reversed, but I'm pretty easygoing about that sort of thing.

    If someone isn't showing you respect, then I fully support your right to laugh at them. But if someone's just meandering along and their beliefs came up in conversation--and not in a "LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT JESUS" sort of way--and you mocked them...I'd be a little disappointed in you. You'd be within your right to mock them, sure...I'd be in my right to be sad that you were being an asshole.
    The possibilities are endless.

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