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Thread: Dawkins responding to religion is BS

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    Dawkins responding to religion is BS

    I have mixed thoughts about Dawkins but I think this sums up his views of the ones who critizes him and why they do.

    *explicit lyrics*

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Yv7...layer_embedded

    From the basic explanation I would fit into what he talks about "framers", although I disagree that it's "seduction" but rather an attempt to bridge the gap of understanding (but I do agree their is a role for both).
    Last edited by Vampiel; May 17th, 2010 at 11:34 PM.

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    I do like listening to Richard Dawkins. The man is such a good speaker.

    I'm curious, though.

    Why is it necessary to tell people that what they believe is wrong? Is that not any better than proselytizers coming to the door?
    The possibilities are endless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cielamara View Post
    Why is it necessary to tell people that what they believe is wrong? Is that not any better than proselytizers coming to the door?
    I understand what you mean, which is also why I catagorize myself as a "framer" in the different school of thought outlined by Dawkins (although I don't really always agree with him but agree with his points in the video) - so to put it in a nutshell, their has been a great deal of organization of atheists recently. We all agree that *no god* exists (or rather believe that). What Dawkins is attempting is to organize that one non-belieif into a concentrated effort of *understanding*.

    I don't think it was intentional on his part, but he has somewhat become a spokesperson of many atheists.

    To answer your question, it's not the same as proselytizers coming to the door - but rather someone simply *questioning* your beliefs.

    You can make a simular reference, but their is a big difference than someone coming to your door saying well you should just believe in this and that, rather than someone saying.... why do believe in this and that?

    I think it's a more important question to ask some WHY do believe rather than saying you SHOULD believe in this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiel View Post
    I understand what you mean, which is also why I catagorize myself as a "framer" in the different school of thought outlined by Dawkins (although I don't really always agree with him but agree with his points in the video) - so to put it in a nutshell, their has been a great deal of organization of atheists recently. We all agree that *no god* exists (or rather believe that). What Dawkins is attempting is to organize that one non-belieif into a concentrated effort of *understanding*.

    I don't think it was intentional on his part, but he has somewhat become a spokesperson of many atheists.

    To answer your question, it's not the same as proselytizers coming to the door - but rather someone simply *questioning* your beliefs.

    You can make a simular reference, but their is a big difference than someone coming to your door saying well you should just believe in this and that, rather than someone saying.... why do believe in this and that?

    I think it's a more important question to ask some WHY do believe rather than saying you SHOULD believe in this.
    Thank you for explaining so clearly. I appreciate it.

    I guess my next question is why. Why do you want to question other people's beliefs? What is your desired outcome in this? To understand how people think? To understand your own feelings? Is it a social experiment? What are you hoping to do here (general here, not specifically MW)? Do you simply want to know?
    The possibilities are endless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cielamara View Post
    Why is it necessary to tell people that what they believe is wrong? Is that not any better than proselytizers coming to the door?
    Because all things, more or less, needs to be criticized. If you RAISE someone in a specific religion and they never get to hear "this is bullshit", they believe these things because they think there's nothing else to believe.

    Let me ask you a question... do you think that Scientology should be allowed to continue unquestioned? Do you think no one should question Christianity? Islam?

    We need to question things, it's how we find new and better ways of life, new and better information and how we evolve mentally and socially.
    Previously known as Njorun Alma


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    Quote Originally Posted by Njorun Alma View Post
    Because all things, more or less, needs to be criticized. If you RAISE someone in a specific religion and they never get to hear "this is bullshit", they believe these things because they think there's nothing else to believe.

    Let me ask you a question... do you think that Scientology should be allowed to continue unquestioned? Do you think no one should question Christianity? Islam?

    We need to question things, it's how we find new and better ways of life, new and better information and how we evolve mentally and socially.

    Nothing was questioned here, saying "your religion is bullshit" isn't questioning anything, and it's not constructive, it only serves to be inflammatory.
    "The word "natural" is completely meaningless! Everything is natural! Nature includes everything! It's not just trees and flowers! It's everything! A chemical company's toxic waste is completely natural! It's part of the nature! We're all part of nature! Everything is natural! Dog shit is natural! It's just not real good food!" George Carlin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nox_Mortus View Post
    Nothing was questioned here, saying "your religion is bullshit" isn't questioning anything, and it's not constructive, it only serves to be inflammatory.
    She wasn't asking why it's necessary to tell people their religion is bullshit. She was asking why it's necessary to tell them what they believe is wrong.
    It's not really the same thing, now... is it. I love how you're trying to twist my words into making it sound like something it isn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Njorun Alma View Post
    She wasn't asking why it's necessary to tell people their religion is bullshit. She was asking why it's necessary to tell them what they believe is wrong.
    It's not really the same thing, now... is it. I love how you're trying to twist my words into making it sound like something it isn't.
    I didn't twist anything you specifically said that people need to hear "this is bullshit

    Quote Originally Posted by Njorun Alma View Post
    Because all things, more or less, needs to be criticized. If you RAISE someone in a specific religion and they never get to hear "this is bullshit",
    Also that's what was said in the video that we are discussing in this thread.
    "The word "natural" is completely meaningless! Everything is natural! Nature includes everything! It's not just trees and flowers! It's everything! A chemical company's toxic waste is completely natural! It's part of the nature! We're all part of nature! Everything is natural! Dog shit is natural! It's just not real good food!" George Carlin

    http://www.last.fm/user/kidthorazine/

    Drop acid, not bombs.

    Add me on facebook! (please mention that you are from MW and include username)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nox_Mortus View Post
    I didn't twist anything you specifically said that people need to hear "this is bullshit



    Also that's what was said in the video that we are discussing in this thread.
    The questioning part was set aside from the bullshit part for a reason, I didn't say calling something bullshit and questioning something was the same thing.

    Raising someone in a sheltered environment where they never hear anything different from what they're told ever is wrong. And unfortunately it happens too often and it becomes a "Because you were raised that way" issue.

    Also, bear in mind the cultural differences when an Aussie says the phrase "This is bullshit"... we're talking about people who yell out "Oi, give us the butter, you ugly idiot!" at dinner as a part of regular conversation.
    Previously known as Njorun Alma


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    Quote Originally Posted by Njorun Alma View Post
    Because all things, more or less, needs to be criticized. If you RAISE someone in a specific religion and they never get to hear "this is bullshit", they believe these things because they think there's nothing else to believe.
    Why is this automatically bad? If someone's HAPPY with the religion they were raised in, why should they have to hear "this is bullshit"?

    We need to question things, it's how we find new and better ways of life, new and better information and how we evolve mentally and socially.
    Oh, sure, I agree with this. But saying "this is bullshit" and going "Hmmm. I wonder if we could improve on this" are two different things.
    The possibilities are endless.

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