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Thread: Golden Dawn Orders

  1. #1
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    Golden Dawn Orders

    Is anyone here or has anyone in the past had any experience with any of the G.D. orders out there? Which ones? What were your experiences? Positive? Negative?
    I'm planning on, one day, when I'm financially stable and living on my own hopefully somewhere geographically convenient, joining some kind of mystical order such as the G.D. I've been looking at the different ones out there lately, and I'm a little confused, as there seems to be some tension between some of them, and if makes it difficult to discern which ones are really authentic.
    The first one I found that seemed to me to be the real thing is the Esoteric Order of the Golden Dawn (esotericgoldendawn.com), but I later found some complaints concerning that particular order, so I'm not entirely sure what to think. Then there's the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega (golden-dawn.com). Both groups seem to claim to teach the traditional G.D. system, and yet they seem to be in conflict with each other. So that's got me confused, which is the first reason I'm posting this here, the second being that I'd like to see more discussion on this particular path section.

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    Originally, i believe it was the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which boasted members such as Aliester Crowley, and Bram Stoker.

    There is a group out there which calls itself the H.O.G.D, however it is almost certainly a watered down version of the original..due to the fact that members were only allowed to join via Invitation, and the fact that it was a "secret" organization.

    So..to answer your question. I wouldn't trust any of them to be authentic, as the real group is probably still out there as they have always been, finding great amusement at the claims of these groups you mentioned.
    Mider

    Then as it was, then again it will be, and though the course will change sometimes, rivers always reach the sea..

  3. #3
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    I believe you're referring to the group started by Chic Cicero in 1977? (http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/) That also had me a little confused, as it shares the same name with the HOGD I mentioned in my first post above. Although that one also keeps the name Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega, which was Macgregor Mathers' name for all three orders as a whole, so out of all of them, that one seems to me, currently, to be the closest to traditional. Overall, though, I'm staying skeptical for the time being until I find out more concrete information.
    Last edited by PaganSpirit; June 2nd, 2010 at 04:16 PM.

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    I don't have anything to add, other than i'm going to be watching this thread for a while. I'm very interested in this as well! I hope more people reply to help you (and me :P)
    I am... Witchy Woman Incognito
    “Although only breath, words which I command are immortal.” - Sappho



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaganSpirit View Post
    I believe you're referring to the group started by Chic Cicero in 1977? (http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/) That also had me a little confused, as it shares the same name with the HOGD I mentioned in my first post above. Although that one also keeps the name Rosicrucian Order of Alpha et Omega, which was Macgregor Mathers' name for all three orders as a whole, so out of all of them, that one seems to me, currently, to be the closest to traditional. Overall, though, I'm staying skeptical for the time being until I find out more concrete information.

    Yes. That is the one. There are a lot of feux organizations. I would leave it up to them to explain the origins of their group, but I would still remain very skeptical as well.
    Last edited by Mider; June 1st, 2010 at 01:28 PM.
    Mider

    Then as it was, then again it will be, and though the course will change sometimes, rivers always reach the sea..

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    The Rundown:

    1) The Original Hermetic Order of the G.'.D.'. no longer exists; it tore itself apart over Mathers elevating Crowley without the consent of the other inner order members. A lot of the teachings lived on through Stella Mautina and Argentum Astrum.

    2) Israel Regardie made some people very angry and published most of the teachings of the G.'.D.'. - with intentional errors that are pretty bleeding obvious. He'd been both Crowley's secretary and a member of Stella Mautina and feared that the traditions would die out when the last members of SM died. Crowley, also, published many G.'.D.'. teachings, intentionally to make people angry, because he was awesome like that.

    3) The Ciceros studied with Regardie, and thus have a semi-legitimate claim to a continuance of the G.'.D.'. traditions.

    4) See (2), and it doesn't matter because most of the G.'.D.'. orders are reconstructing from Regardie and Crowley's publications, including the Ciceros.

    5) Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn for the win!
    Sidhe

    If I wanted your opinion, I'd read it in your entrails.


    My astral realmz; let me show you them.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidhe View Post
    I trust anyone who uses the phrase FTW!
    No, j/k, seriously though, organizing that information has been very helpful!
    I am... Witchy Woman Incognito
    “Although only breath, words which I command are immortal.” - Sappho



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidhe View Post
    The Rundown:

    1) The Original Hermetic Order of the G.'.D.'. no longer exists; it tore itself apart over Mathers elevating Crowley without the consent of the other inner order members. A lot of the teachings lived on through Stella Mautina and Argentum Astrum.

    2) Israel Regardie made some people very angry and published most of the teachings of the G.'.D.'. - with intentional errors that are pretty bleeding obvious. He'd been both Crowley's secretary and a member of Stella Mautina and feared that the traditions would die out when the last members of SM died. Crowley, also, published many G.'.D.'. teachings, intentionally to make people angry, because he was awesome like that.

    3) The Ciceros studied with Regardie, and thus have a semi-legitimate claim to a continuance of the G.'.D.'. traditions.

    4) See (2), and it doesn't matter because most of the G.'.D.'. orders are reconstructing from Regardie and Crowley's publications, including the Ciceros.

    5) Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn for the win!
    Sidhe, thanks for taking the time to do some research. I would have done so if i would have had more time on my hands.

    However, considering i was shooting from the hip, my initial response was rather accurate, yes?
    Mider

    Then as it was, then again it will be, and though the course will change sometimes, rivers always reach the sea..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidhe View Post
    I have looked at the OSOGD a bit before, but I don't know, I tend to be a little iffy when it comes to Crowley and Crowley-influenced stuff.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaganSpirit View Post
    I have looked at the OSOGD a bit before, but I don't know, I tend to be a little iffy when it comes to Crowley and Crowley-influenced stuff.
    Anything outside of Reconstructionist traditions in modern paganism has some Crowleyan influence - Gardner quoted directly from Thelemic texts for Wiccan rituals, Victor Anderson drew on Crowley for some of Feri philosophy (and theology!), Starhawk drew from Feri, etc.

    So, Recons and Dianics...though some Dianics I know have a thing for Babalon as an image of the liberated, independent woman. So it goes.

    Crowley really isn't that scary once you get the inside jokes, mainly, and assuming you separate Crowley the rather typical sexist, racist man of the late 1800s (a failing he admitted to...could not break his own upbringing as a "Child of the Old Aeon") from Crowley the Magus of Epic Win there's a lot to be learned from him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mider View Post
    Sidhe, thanks for taking the time to do some research. I would have done so if i would have had more time on my hands.

    However, considering i was shooting from the hip, my initial response was rather accurate, yes?
    It was a good shot from the hip. Quick draw with a kung-fu action grip!

    Quote Originally Posted by Adalai View Post
    I trust anyone who uses the phrase FTW!
    No, j/k, seriously though, organizing that information has been very helpful!
    "FTW" is actually a sacred Formula. A word of power, if you will. Let us examine it in the QBL!

    "F" is represented in Hebrew by "Peh," if we're transliterating. Value - 80. It represents the mouth, Mars, and The Tower.

    "T" we'll assume refers to "Teth," 9, the serpent, Leo, and the Lust/Strength or Adjustment/Justice trump.

    "W" is "Vav," 6, "pin," the Hierophant, and Taurus.

    So, just looking at it from a Tarot perspective, the Tower collapses, destroying the accomplishments of the magician, but through the Strength of Lust and with proper adaptation, the magician may rebuild him/herself into the Hierophant and Master of the Temple.

    Or, if we do "T" as "Tau," - the cross, Saturn, and the Universe/World - then you get the destruction of the accomplishments, the self-sacrifice (like Odin, hanging on the World-Ash) of the magician, and then the recreation as the Hierophant.

    So, yep, QBL FTW!
    Sidhe

    If I wanted your opinion, I'd read it in your entrails.


    My astral realmz; let me show you them.

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