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Thread: Religions that teach original purity of spirit, instead of original sin?

  1. #1
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    Religions that teach original purity of spirit, instead of original sin?

    I read something on another website that got me thinking.

    Many people believe that we humans are not born pure of spirit.

    In Hinduism, we are born with flawed spirits, and it takes multiple lifetimes in order to overcome the flaws.

    Christianity adopted that with its teaching of original sin, which is extremely similar to the Hindu concept of "False Knowledge". The only difference between the two, is that in Christianity, you don't get a second chance to do life over again. You mess up the first time, and too bad, you go to hell for eternity. According to the Bible, Jesus taught the opposite of original sin, teaching that babies are born pure, that in order to realize union with God, sinners must once again become like babies, pure of spirit. Of course, many Christians don't really follow Jesus's teachings, but rather those attributed to St. Paul, instead.

    These are just 2 examples of religions that teach that humanity is flawed from day one, whether flawed with a stain or even with the inherent capacity for untaught evil. There are many other such religions; many of the new pagan faiths also teach the same thing. But what of religions that teach that we are born pure, born with original love, not original sin? Where are they?

    They are gone for the most part, lost to history. There are many individuals who believe as I do, that we are born pure, that it is the wrongs (sins) that we commit that soil ourselves, and we must repent and change our erroneous ways in order to get back to the path of righteousness. There is no need for the concept of salvation in this manner of thinking, as the spirit is already born pure and even a wrongdoer will be pure once again once said person shakes off the stupor and finds his / her way back to the path of righteousness.

    Now, I have studied comparative religions in the past, yet the ones I studied the most were generally mainstream western religions, along with ancient religions.

    So what I am trying to do, is find currently practiced religions that teach that we are born pure, yet I am having a hard time finding any. Does anyone know of any?

    Mind you, I'm not likely to adopt a new religion any time soon, as I am a henotheistic panentheist, but I am curious, and would like to read scriptures, if available

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Islam.
    Rather than gather up tons of info, I'll give the basics for now:

    The Naturally Pure State of Fitrah
    Islamic doctrine teaches that all people are born fundamentally good with a natural inclination to worship one God (Allah). This innocent, sin-free state of birth is called fitrah. An upbringing in a religion other than Islam can deviate a person from this natural state. Although born without original sin, a person is vulnerable to committing sins and becomes accountable for them after the age of reason.
    http://www.suite101.com/content/orig...n-islam-a75982


    Also, in Islam there is no Original Sin, Adam and Eve's disobedience (which was viewed as equal, not just Eve's doing) was between them and God, not carried through generations like is found in Christianity.

    There's also Judaism.
    A small summary:
    The doctrine of original sin is totally unacceptable to Jews (as it is to Christian sects such as Baptists and Assemblies of G-d). Jews believe that man enters the world free of sin, with a soul that is pure and innocent and untainted. While there were some Jewish teachers in Talmudic times who believed that death was a punishment brought upon mankind on account of Adam's sin, the dominant view by far was that man sins because he is not a perfect being, and not, as Christianity teaches, because he is inherently sinful.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...ginal_Sin.html


    Also:
    The soul is pure at birth
    Humans are born morally pure; Judaism has no concept analogous to original sin. Judaism affirms that people are born with a yetzer ha-tov (יצר הטוב), a tendency to do good, and with a yetzer hara (יצר הרע), a tendency to do evil. Thus human beings have free will and can choose the path in life that they will take. The rabbis even recognize a positive value to the yetzer ha-ra: without the yetzer ha-ra there would be no civilization or other fruits of human labor. The implication is that yetzer ha-tov and yetzer ha-ra are best understood not only as moral categories of good and evil but as the inherent conflict within man between selfless and selfish orientations.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_..._pure_at_birth


    Not sure if this helps or not.
    Last edited by Agaliha; October 28th, 2010 at 06:40 AM.

  3. #3
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    Most Native American spiritualities. In my tribe's beliefs, all the parts of peoples souls (like in Ancient Egyptian beliefs, in Blackfoot beliefs there are multiple parts to the soul which can actually be seen as different souls, but this is a gross oversimplification) are non-sinful (although there's no Abrahamic concept of "sin" in our beliefs) at the formation.

    There is no "original sin." To us, we were never cast out of Paradise. Even now, we still live on [very small parts of] our traditional land. People do bad things, but the individual person is held accountable for those things, it's not blamed on a sinful nature. While Blackfoot have no hell, the souls of wicked people become sta'ˇˇ/sta-au which has no good English equivalent, but the closest I can come is a restless malevolent demon which can't enter the Sand Hills (where the dead go). A wicked person's soul can also simply cease to exist after death, which may not seem like a big deal to a lot of people, especially of a Westernized mind frame, it's a terrifyingly big deal to the Blackfoot.

    I could expound upon the belief system further, but I'm afraid I'll just end up making a big ass post about nothing, so if you have any questions about it, I'm more than willing to answer.

    in Kemeticism as well, there's no "original sin." A persons soul(s) is(are) without a mark against them when they're given/when they form.
    Sat Wepwawet-Yinepu meryt Sekhmet-Hethert
    "Ki'sommkiistomisam waamisookiiksisapoo, noohkohka'pssi kiistinoonnitsitapii"
    "Ba ar pet sat ar ta"
    Spiritual blog:
    Dividing by Zero: Hanging out with God(desse)s

  4. #4
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    Even the religions that teach original sin assume that man can be loving and moral, and that's what matters most. The world is a mess, whether we started out pure or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niocal View Post
    There is no need for the concept of salvation in this manner of thinking, as the spirit is already born pure and even a wrongdoer will be pure once again once said person shakes off the stupor and finds his / her way back to the path of righteousness.
    One may still need salvation to find the way back. You seem to be biased toward activity. Passivity is the other aspect of nature, and sometimes it's better to wait and accept what comes to us, rather than push our own ideas.
    Last edited by litewave; October 28th, 2010 at 04:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix_Falls View Post
    Most Native American spiritualities. In my tribe's beliefs, all the parts of peoples souls (like in Ancient Egyptian beliefs, in Blackfoot beliefs there are multiple parts to the soul which can actually be seen as different souls, but this is a gross oversimplification) are non-sinful (although there's no Abrahamic concept of "sin" in our beliefs) at the formation.

    There is no "original sin." To us, we were never cast out of Paradise. Even now, we still live on [very small parts of] our traditional land. People do bad things, but the individual person is held accountable for those things, it's not blamed on a sinful nature. While Blackfoot have no hell, the souls of wicked people become sta'ˇˇ/sta-au which has no good English equivalent, but the closest I can come is a restless malevolent demon which can't enter the Sand Hills (where the dead go). A wicked person's soul can also simply cease to exist after death, which may not seem like a big deal to a lot of people, especially of a Westernized mind frame, it's a terrifyingly big deal to the Blackfoot.

    I could expound upon the belief system further, but I'm afraid I'll just end up making a big ass post about nothing, so if you have any questions about it, I'm more than willing to answer.

    in Kemeticism as well, there's no "original sin." A persons soul(s) is(are) without a mark against them when they're given/when they form.

    I am interested. So no castle in the sky, they go to the Sand Hills?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix_Falls View Post

    in Kemeticism as well, there's no "original sin." A persons soul(s) is(are) without a mark against them when they're given/when they form.
    I would argue that in Kemeticism, you are born pure. Everything starts out as Zep Tepi- which would be pure, unadulterated, clean. Using that line of thinking, I think one could argue that you are born pure within Kemetic standards, and can become more "unpure" or "muddled" as you continue through life.

    Whether you have the ability to truely return to your Zep Tepi after you've been born is another matter, though.

    -Devo
    dA | FB | LJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devo View Post
    I would argue that in Kemeticism, you are born pure. Everything starts out as Zep Tepi- which would be pure, unadulterated, clean. Using that line of thinking, I think one could argue that you are born pure within Kemetic standards, and can become more "unpure" or "muddled" as you continue through life.

    Whether you have the ability to truely return to your Zep Tepi after you've been born is another matter, though.

    -Devo
    which is what I said, but in a more understandable way. Wait, so maybe it's what I meant, but not what I said. I don't know haha. Thanks, Devo I have a tendency to make things more complicated when I'm trying to be simplistic =P
    Sat Wepwawet-Yinepu meryt Sekhmet-Hethert
    "Ki'sommkiistomisam waamisookiiksisapoo, noohkohka'pssi kiistinoonnitsitapii"
    "Ba ar pet sat ar ta"
    Spiritual blog:
    Dividing by Zero: Hanging out with God(desse)s

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charley Brown View Post
    I am interested. So no castle in the sky, they go to the Sand Hills?
    There is no heaven as such, no. Human souls aren't allowed in Sky Country (the realm of the god(s)) with very few exceptions like Scar Face/Star Boy, Yellow Feather Woman and the like. Although, it can be argued that Scar Face/Star Boy isn't all the way human since His father is Morning Star, but His mother, Yellow Feather Woman (wife of Morning Star) was human and she lived in Sky Country until she betrayed the rules of Sun, Moon and Morning Star and chose to disobey the only rule given to her. She was cast out of Sky Country and spent the rest of her life on earth, died of a broken heart, and went to the Sand Hills, not Sky Country.

    The easiest comparison I have is that of Kemeticism (and indeed, there's a surprising number of similarities between traditional Blackfoot spirituality and Kemeticism). The afterlife is very much like this one except there is no sickness, death (of course) and things of that nature. God(s) and the Spirits come and go as they please among the camps of the Ancestors in the Sand Hills, but god(s), with very few exceptions, don't live in the Sand Hills, they live in Sky Country.

    That's not to say that the Sand Hills aren't a good place to go when one dies. It's not as bland as it sounds; you're reunited with the Ancestors and become one yourself and it's a good place to go but there's no...I don't know...golden teepees or endless singing to Creator or anything lol
    Sat Wepwawet-Yinepu meryt Sekhmet-Hethert
    "Ki'sommkiistomisam waamisookiiksisapoo, noohkohka'pssi kiistinoonnitsitapii"
    "Ba ar pet sat ar ta"
    Spiritual blog:
    Dividing by Zero: Hanging out with God(desse)s

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix_Falls View Post
    There is no heaven as such, no. Human souls aren't allowed in Sky Country (the realm of the god(s)) with very few exceptions like Scar Face/Star Boy, Yellow Feather Woman and the like. Although, it can be argued that Scar Face/Star Boy isn't all the way human since His father is Morning Star, but His mother, Yellow Feather Woman (wife of Morning Star) was human and she lived in Sky Country until she betrayed the rules of Sun, Moon and Morning Star and chose to disobey the only rule given to her. She was cast out of Sky Country and spent the rest of her life on earth, died of a broken heart, and went to the Sand Hills, not Sky Country.

    The easiest comparison I have is that of Kemeticism (and indeed, there's a surprising number of similarities between traditional Blackfoot spirituality and Kemeticism). The afterlife is very much like this one except there is no sickness, death (of course) and things of that nature. God(s) and the Spirits come and go as they please among the camps of the Ancestors in the Sand Hills, but god(s), with very few exceptions, don't live in the Sand Hills, they live in Sky Country.

    That's not to say that the Sand Hills aren't a good place to go when one dies. It's not as bland as it sounds; you're reunited with the Ancestors and become one yourself and it's a good place to go but there's no...I don't know...golden teepees or endless singing to Creator or anything lol

    Thanks. Just so you know as long as you're willing I am going to suck the knowledge from you.

  10. #10
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    Eastern Catholicism/Orthodox Church. They don't believe in original sin and reject much of Augustine's work (some even reject Aquinas). Though, they believe in Ancestral Sin, where the sin affects you to a degree in which you are mortal. Sin makes you mortal and Jesus' death makes you immortal.
    "If the stars should appear but one night every thousand years how man would marvel and stare." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Remember your spirituality" - Ganesha to a friend in a dream, 2008



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