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Thread: The Goddess in Popular Culture

  1. #11
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    I found that link and the description on Inanna's descent interesting! I've never read that version before. thanks, RoseKitten!
    Christina Sparrow

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrowspirit View Post
    I found that link and the description on Inanna's descent interesting! I've never read that version before. thanks, RoseKitten!
    That... makes me sad. It's sad to me that ancient texts are re-written, and so far from the originals. Why do they change them? So the have a better ending? So people will read them? It just doesn't make any sense. If you don't like an ancient culture, or like it's myths... just leave them be, but don't bastardize them. *sigh*
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoseKitten View Post
    That... makes me sad. It's sad to me that ancient texts are re-written, and so far from the originals. Why do they change them? So the have a better ending? So people will read them? It just doesn't make any sense. If you don't like an ancient culture, or like it's myths... just leave them be, but don't bastardize them. *sigh*
    Kinda like how people bastardize Kali into this croney old vampire man hater; "She represents death and destruction, she must be Crone!" She's a Mother Goddess. MOTHER. At any rate, she isn't a Wiccan Goddess or even relatable to Her.

    /endrant
    Last edited by Gaudior; January 26th, 2011 at 03:41 PM.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selah View Post
    Kinda like how people bastardize Kali into this croney old vampire man hater; "She represents death and destruction, she must be Crone!" She's a Mother Goddess. MOTHER. At any rate, she isn't a Wiccan Goddess or even relatable to Her.

    /endrant
    Oh... you don't want to get me started on bastardizing deities... and glorifying demons. *shakes angrily*
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoseKitten View Post
    That... makes me sad. It's sad to me that ancient texts are re-written, and so far from the originals. Why do they change them? So the have a better ending? So people will read them? It just doesn't make any sense. If you don't like an ancient culture, or like it's myths... just leave them be, but don't bastardize them. *sigh*
    I understand what you mean. it's like right now I'm trying to find some Orphic hymns to Hekate and Demeter, that aren't annotated or horribly translated!
    Christina Sparrow

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoseKitten View Post
    That... makes me sad. It's sad to me that ancient texts are re-written, and so far from the originals. Why do they change them? So the have a better ending? So people will read them? It just doesn't make any sense. If you don't like an ancient culture, or like it's myths... just leave them be, but don't bastardize them. *sigh*
    That's the nature of Myth. It changes to fit the times and culture it's in. Always has, always will. And yes, a culture's Myth draws on Myth that came before it, often from a different culture. Again, always has, always will. Even Inanna might well be a "bastardization" of something from earlier. It's just the oldest version we know of. After over 5000 years of Myth constantly doing this, I think it's a bit late to suddenly object to it, now.

    The modern Wiccan version is a changing of the Persephone story, so your anger is misplaced. It would be the Greek version they'd be "bastardizing", in your words. But then, following that line of thought, the Greeks were "bastardizing" the Sumerian Myth theirs was based on in the first place. So were the Egyptians with Isis and Osiris, which was a variation of this same Sumerian Myth. So, why aren't you complaining about the ancient Egyptians and Greeks, as well, along with anyone who uses those Pantheons in their systems? Why just the Wiccans? Why was it OK for the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans to make variations to reflect and speak to their culture and times, but not the Wiccans?

    The modern Wiccans are just doing what the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, and many others did before them, drawing on earlier Myth to create their own. We're not living in an ancient Summerian culture, today, any more than the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans were. We're even further removed from that way of life, now (And thank God, or Goddess, or whoever, for that. I like indoor plumbing and electricity). You might want to avoid the Cohn brothers film, O Brother, Where Art Thou, as it takes Homer's variation of the anicent Greek Myth of his time, The Odyssey, and sets it in 20th Century America, reflecting and speaking to our modern culture. This would be "bastardizing," following your argument. But then, Homer did some "bastardization," himself.

    Of course, I don't see why whether a Myth's parents were legally married at the time of the Myth's birth is a big issue, but... (shrug)

    For a Myth to be anything other than some dusty old fairy tale, it must be a part of the culture and times. It must speak to the culture and times. So, new Myths are created, drawing on older ones for it's archtypes and symbols. Myth evolves as cultures evolve.

    Inanna, in that form, isn't touching or inspiring anyone, today. Alice is. Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Harry Potter... They're all serving the purpose Myth is supposed to. They're the ancient archtypes and symbols told for modern times and our modern culture. That culture has many different religions practicing alongside each other, rather than a single cultural one. So, modern Myth speaks in a universal way, one that all Faiths can embrace. One of my favorite examples is the musical Godspell, a retelling (You'd call it a "bastardization") of the Gospel of St. Matthew set in modern day New York. A telling of Christian Myth, it's loved, and performed, by Christians and non-Christians alike. It speaks to and inspires people, whether they're part of the Christian Faith, or not.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrowspirit View Post
    I understand what you mean. it's like right now I'm trying to find some Orphic hymns to Hekate and Demeter, that aren't annotated or horribly translated!
    You're not going to find anything "pure," if that's what you're looking for. Even the earliest surviving texts would have gone through a lot of changes from where they started. And, again, those Myths drew heavily on earlier ones.

    Besides, you're not an ancient Greek. You don't live like one or think like one. You can't. That's not the culture we live in. All you can do, all we ever do, is adapt the ancient Myths and practices to our modern life.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by perceval23 View Post
    That's the nature of Myth. It changes to fit the times and culture it's in. Always has, always will. And yes, a culture's Myth draws on Myth that came before it, often from a different culture. Again, always has, always will. Even Inanna might well be a "bastardization" of something from earlier. It's just the oldest version we know of. After over 5000 years of Myth constantly doing this, I think it's a bit late to suddenly object to it, now.

    The modern Wiccan version is a changing of the Persephone story, so your anger is misplaced. It would be the Greek version they'd be "bastardizing", in your words. But then, following that line of thought, the Greeks were "bastardizing" the Sumerian Myth theirs was based on in the first place. So were the Egyptians with Isis and Osiris, which was a variation of this same Sumerian Myth. So, why aren't you complaining about the ancient Egyptians and Greeks, as well, along with anyone who uses those Pantheons in their systems? Why just the Wiccans? Why was it OK for the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans to make variations to reflect and speak to their culture and times, but not the Wiccans?

    The modern Wiccans are just doing what the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, and many others did before them, drawing on earlier Myth to create their own. We're not living in an ancient Summerian culture, today, any more than the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans were. We're even further removed from that way of life, now (And thank God, or Goddess, or whoever, for that. I like indoor plumbing and electricity). You might want to avoid the Cohn brothers film, O Brother, Where Art Thou, as it takes Homer's variation of the anicent Greek Myth of his time, The Odyssey, and sets it in 20th Century America, reflecting and speaking to our modern culture. This would be "bastardizing," following your argument. But then, Homer did some "bastardization," himself.

    Of course, I don't see why whether a Myth's parents were legally married at the time of the Myth's birth is a big issue, but... (shrug)

    For a Myth to be anything other than some dusty old fairy tale, it must be a part of the culture and times. It must speak to the culture and times. So, new Myths are created, drawing on older ones for it's archtypes and symbols. Myth evolves as cultures evolve.

    Inanna, in that form, isn't touching or inspiring anyone, today. Alice is. Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Harry Potter... They're all serving the purpose Myth is supposed to. They're the ancient archtypes and symbols told for modern times and our modern culture. That culture has many different religions practicing alongside each other, rather than a single cultural one. So, modern Myth speaks in a universal way, one that all Faiths can embrace. One of my favorite examples is the musical Godspell, a retelling (You'd call it a "bastardization") of the Gospel of St. Matthew set in modern day New York. A telling of Christian Myth, it's loved, and performed, by Christians and non-Christians alike. It speaks to and inspires people, whether they're part of the Christian Faith, or not.
    A few things. When a myth is adapted to a culture, it becomes part of that culture. Inanna is a Sumerian creation. The Sumerian myth is appropriate to Sumer, and Sumer only. The Abrahamic adaptation of what came before it created it's own thing, based off of others. However, I can't re-write the Bible and still call it the Bible, it'd be something new. So, to say that an ancient myth correlates in any way to modern stories, without actually comparing the ancient myth to the modern story, is wrong. The Wiccan myth that you posted, is some person's creation from modern society. So, if you want to say that a modern creation compares to modern stories, feel free. You can't say it compares to the original though, because it doesn't.

    In fact, changing myths, and still calling them of whatever they came from, is wrong. Adaptation is great, but completely changing something in order to make it relevant to today is just bad form. Ancient myths were relevant to ancient society. If it's not relevant to modern society, there's no reason to change it, you just create something new the suits your needs or desires.
    Last edited by RoseKitten; January 26th, 2011 at 06:35 PM.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by perceval23 View Post
    You're not going to find anything "pure," if that's what you're looking for. Even the earliest surviving texts would have gone through a lot of changes from where they started. And, again, those Myths drew heavily on earlier ones.
    That's a cute assumption, care to provide sourcing for it? Or, are you just saying it to justify the fact that you're "sourcing" of ancient texts is inaccurate?
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by perceval23 View Post
    You're not going to find anything "pure," if that's what you're looking for. Even the earliest surviving texts would have gone through a lot of changes from where they started. And, again, those Myths drew heavily on earlier ones.

    Besides, you're not an ancient Greek. You don't live like one or think like one. You can't. That's not the culture we live in. All you can do, all we ever do, is adapt the ancient Myths and practices to our modern life.

    What's interesting is that you fail to note that the Greeks did not view their myths as literal text, and therefore didn't adapt them to anything. The myths are allegorical in nature and require contemplation in order to glean hidden truths.

    While we can't *live* like the ancients, we can certainly adapt without making crap up just because we want to. We adhere to the worldview, which we can certainly understand because there is a plethora of information out there that gives us that info in one is inclined to look for it.

    Adaptation does not mean one changes the worldview or praxis.
    Last edited by Twinkle; January 26th, 2011 at 06:26 PM.
    "The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common:
    instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views,
    which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering."


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