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Thread: Republicans for Rape.

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valnorran View Post
    I'm not sure what Conservatives you hang out with, but it's been my experience that most don't really care what consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes. Most accept civil unions. What they object to is the idea of a court requiring churches to marry gays, which would be in direct opposition to church doctrine. A constitutional ammendment legalizing gay marriage would do exactly this and would be akin to a federal law requiring Jews to eat non-kosher foods. I should think if you favor separation of church and state you'd be against federal law requiring gay marriage, because any time a church refused to marry a gay couple they'd be hauled into court for violating someone's constitutional rights.
    You're kidding me. THAT's your argument against equality for homosexuals? Some fantasy about churches being required to marry them?

    Churches will no more be forced to marry gays than elementary schools will teach their male students how to have anal sex with each other during recess. Ridiculous and unfounded argument is ridiculous and unfounded.

    You aren't keeping the brightest company if those are the conservatives you're hanging out with. Basic logic apparently need not apply. :

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sequoia View Post
    Churches will no more be forced to marry gays than elementary schools will teach their male students how to have anal sex with each other during recess. Ridiculous and unfounded argument is ridiculous and unfounded.
    Hell yeah sista...speak that truth.

    I think a more honest position, more honest than such bad argumentation anyway, would be, "Eeewwww gays are nasty perverts and I don't like them." That's the truth of this really, what's called the "Eeewww Factor." Basically these folks think that because they think gay sex is gross they get to treat homosexuals as other than regular human beings.


    )o( Blessed Be,

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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundragon View Post
    Hell yeah sista...speak that truth.

    I think a more honest position, more honest than such bad argumentation anyway, would be, "Eeewwww gays are nasty perverts and I don't like them." That's the truth of this really, what's called the "Eeewww Factor." Basically these folks think that because they think gay sex is gross they get to treat homosexuals as other than regular human beings.


    )o( Blessed Be,

    Sundragon
    Essentially, yes.
    JFGI

  4. #74
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    By the way, why don't we just go ahead and let that "conservative Libertarian" explain the issue...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06G9T...eature=related

    Notice the pronoun use.
    JFGI

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundragon View Post
    Hell yeah sista...speak that truth.

    I think a more honest position, more honest than such bad argumentation anyway, would be, "Eeewwww gays are nasty perverts and I don't like them." That's the truth of this really, what's called the "Eeewww Factor." Basically these folks think that because they think gay sex is gross they get to treat homosexuals as other than regular human beings.


    )o( Blessed Be,

    Sundragon
    Glad to see you now speak for people you never have or would understand, because you are so in touch with them, and since your demonization strawman is the only logical answer you can seem to understand.
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. H.L. Mencken

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by memnoch View Post
    Glad to see you now speak for people you never have or would understand, because you are so in touch with them, and since your demonization strawman is the only logical answer you can seem to understand.
    So other than religious bigotry and the "ewww factor," give me some other reasons why homosexuals are so "wrong" and "bad" that they don't deserve the right to marry those they love.

    And before you say it - yes, government ought not be part of marriage. HOWEVER: government provides legal incentives for the rights of those who are married, such as tax perks, visitation rights, inheritance rights, health insurance coverage, etc. So much of this is already established that either government needs to pull out entirely (highly unlikely), or it needs to treat ALL unions equally.

  7. #77
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    *pulls up chair and munches on popcorn*

    Good substitute for a scary movie.

    How do people who are against same-sex marriages feel about the countries who have instigated them, such as Sweden?

    *is happy because this is an interactive scary movie*

    Yeah, I got nothing to say. I'm bored. So sue me.
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  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by memnoch View Post
    Glad to see you now speak for people you never have or would understand, because you are so in touch with them, and since your demonization strawman is the only logical answer you can seem to understand.
    One needn't be a mind reader to know that many people react to that which is radically different from what they are used to with either fear or disgust. The common term "homophobia" covers the fear reaction and my "Eewww Factor" covers the reactionary disgust.

    LOL Demonizing strawman. Please memnoch articulate for me an argument against gay marriage, or the normalization of homosexuality in society that isn't rooted in:

    1.) Religion
    2.) Fear
    3.) Disgust


    Sure, some artificial superstructure of "reason" can be constructed so that these arguments seem rational however I have yet to see an argument against homosexuality that isn't ultimately based on one of the above three rationales. Anti-homosexual arguments tend to be so undeniably arbitrary that it is patently unbelievable that anyone could support them without an underlying emotional bias rooted in (again):

    1.) Religion
    2.) Fear
    3.) Disgust


    As an example, the argument that marriage as it exists in the modern Western world (1 man 1 woman bonded in love for the purpose of pair bonding and the raising of children) is the sacrosanct "design" of marriage as if marriage were some sort of Aristotelian perfect from and we, as mortals, must simply embrace this perfect design. The idea that modern Western heterosexual marriage represents some underlying natural law

    ...presupposes purpose...

    which presupposes an underlying design...

    which presupposes an underlying intelligence, a designer...

    which presupposes a theistic God...

    thus pointing to religion as the prime motivator of the argument.


    Of course, some may call this natural order or design something non-theistic like "tradition" but I have yet to hear an argument that doesn't at least imply that this "tradition" is something more than an arbitrary human cultural construct. Without the weight of divine revelation such traditions just seem alot like arbitrary culturally sanctioned discrimination.

    Lets see if any anti-gay argument fails to fall into my three catagories memnoch. The weakness of an argument gives a hint as to whether it is based on reason or on arbitrary concepts (a theistic God) or on emotional biases (Fear or Disgust). So I fail to see either demonizing strawmen or an attempt at mind-reading on my part. I just see basic reasoning.

    And to wrap up this thought into a tidy little bundle, even the rationale of religion is based on fear of the alien. Prohibitions against homosexuality were woven into religious law out of fear of a phenomenon that ancient peoples could not comprehend...homosexuality. So it appears that the religious rationale collapses into simple brute fear.

    Then when considering the "Eewww Factor" or Disgust element we have to realize that which disgusts humans provokes a fear reaction. So even "Eewww Factor" can also be reduced to fear.

    So I suppose ultimately all arguments against homosexuality can be reduced to fear, thus the accuracy of the much used term:

    homophobia...the unreasoning fear of homosexuality/homosexuals

    Memnoch, I patiently await your response that debunks my theory of the true rationale underlying all conservative anti-homosexual arguments.


    )o( Blessed Be,

    Sundragon
    Last edited by Sundragon; February 21st, 2011 at 07:09 AM.
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    And that is the only worship of God there is."

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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sequoia View Post
    So other than religious bigotry and the "ewww factor," give me some other reasons why homosexuals are so "wrong" and "bad" that they don't deserve the right to marry those they love.

    And before you say it - yes, government ought not be part of marriage. HOWEVER: government provides legal incentives for the rights of those who are married, such as tax perks, visitation rights, inheritance rights, health insurance coverage, etc. So much of this is already established that either government needs to pull out entirely (highly unlikely), or it needs to treat ALL unions equally.
    I'd like an answer to this as well. Instead of making conservatives seem like The Mystics from "The Dark Crystal" *eye roll* it makes more sense to actually provide the false assumption with a correction.

    Many of us don't support gay marriage because of [insert reason here]

    But that would take some form of honesty that goes beyond petty, childish, derailing attempts.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberias View Post
    I'm sorry, that paragraph is just flat-out jaw droppingly retarded in every sense. Are churches required to marry ANYBODY right now? No. Churches can decide not to marry whoever they don't want to marry.
    Because there are no constitutional ammendments regarding marriage.

    And how is it that a guy who not too long ago said he wasn't comfortable judging court decisions due to his lack of legal expertise is perfectly comfortable commenting on the potential legal ramifications of an ammendment he's never seen?
    Last edited by Valnorran; February 21st, 2011 at 10:58 AM.

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