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Thread: Beings above the Gods?

  1. #21
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    I think when get into the "God to a God" business it just becomes fruitless mental masturbation. If there's something "above" a God, then what's the point of Gods in your spiritual path?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EponaCapaill View Post
    This pretty much represents how I view things.


    Me as well.... I believe there is this Divine power that isn't either male or female that has created the other Gods and Goddesses to help guide us and teach us.... be there for us when we need them.... to help us with all our spiritual happenings...

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by töbi View Post
    I think when get into the "God to a God" business it just becomes fruitless mental masturbation. If there's something "above" a God, then what's the point of Gods in your spiritual path?
    Well, that depends on what your system is. You're insulting both Hinduism and the Christian Mystery traditions that have a strong Gnostic influence by dismissing certain concepts as "fruitless mental masturbation." For some of us, how the system actually works is significant.

    The One would be beyond gender, what unifies everything and encompasses everything. In Christianity, the One is simply called God. The One is both Creator and Creation. In Kabbalah, the four letters that make up Yahweh's name represent the Four Elements the ancients beieved everything to be made from. In Hinduism, this would be Brahman.

    The various gods, angels, saints, etc, of various cultures would represent certain aspects of Nature or have certain functions. You wouldn't call on Mars to help with a love issue, for example.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by perceval23 View Post
    Well, that depends on what your system is. You're insulting both Hinduism and the Christian Mystery traditions that have a strong Gnostic influence by dismissing certain concepts as "fruitless mental masturbation." For some of us, how the system actually works is significant.

    The One would be beyond gender, what unifies everything and encompasses everything. In Christianity, the One is simply called God. The One is both Creator and Creation. In Kabbalah, the four letters that make up Yahweh's name represent the Four Elements the ancients beieved everything to be made from. In Hinduism, this would be Brahman.

    The various gods, angels, saints, etc, of various cultures would represent certain aspects of Nature or have certain functions. You wouldn't call on Mars to help with a love issue, for example.
    It is not my intention to come across as hostile, but I didn't understand your point. You're saying that the "God to a God" concept exists in Christianity? This is the first I have heard of it. If you're speaking of the Demiurge, then that's not exactly God now is it?

    In the case of Hinduisms (plural), is Brahma more of a God than Sarasvati (for example)? If so, why and what is the purpose of this distinction within the framework of that spiritual path?

    In my mind, the point of agreeing to have Gods be part of your worldview is that there is a "higher" (or more innate/wiser/lower/better connected) power or intelligence than you (maybe it's part of you, maybe it's its own separate being) in whom you can take refuge, ask for guidance, revere as an anthropomorphic expression of the domains it represents. If you're part of a nature based religion and you revere Gaia, for example, why choose to then include something "greater" than Gaia? Does that not pull the focus of your spiritual path away from where you had intended it to go?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by töbi View Post
    It is not my intention to come across as hostile, but I didn't understand your point. You're saying that the "God to a God" concept exists in Christianity? This is the first I have heard of it. If you're speaking of the Demiurge, then that's not exactly God now is it?

    In the case of Hinduisms (plural), is Brahma more of a God than Sarasvati (for example)? If so, why and what is the purpose of this distinction within the framework of that spiritual path?

    In my mind, the point of agreeing to have Gods be part of your worldview is that there is a "higher" (or more innate/wiser/lower/better connected) power or intelligence than you (maybe it's part of you, maybe it's its own separate being) in whom you can take refuge, ask for guidance, revere as an anthropomorphic expression of the domains it represents. If you're part of a nature based religion and you revere Gaia, for example, why choose to then include something "greater" than Gaia? Does that not pull the focus of your spiritual path away from where you had intended it to go?
    Gaia only covers this one planet. The sun, the stars, they're not hers or a part of her. So, yes, there is something greater than Gaia, something of which even she is a part. What does that have to do with our daily lives, you may ask? Consider the sun, and how much we depend on it.

    The One is part of the Gnostic tradition that has always existed within Christianity. There's a lot more to Christianity, and a lot more variations, than the Calvinist Southern Baptists preach.
    Last edited by perceval23; March 21st, 2012 at 05:17 PM.

  6. #26
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    The fact that the Sun is larger than the Earth doesn't explain the necessity of having a God to a God in one's spiritual worldview. What purpose does it serve?

  7. #27
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    I think that, although, several cultures have original forces the gods came from, these forces were more or less thought of as life, something that exists, but it's not benevolent or malevolent, not necessarily a being persay. It could be compared to the "big bang." They are not necessarily things that act in and of themselves or have intent or motivations. In some cultures, it was considered disrespectful or improper to attempt to worship or communicate with such forces. I, myself, have always thought it was kind of peculiar for people to try to worship the origins of the gods as divine beings. I think in some ways it is more of a concept than anything else, an answer to the child's question, "Where do the gods come from?"
    Last edited by CaeruleusLady; March 21st, 2012 at 05:41 PM.
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  8. #28
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    It's not just that the Sun is physically larger. It's where the Earth comes from. You can technically include Luna as part of Gaia because the Moon came from the Earth, but you can't say the same of the Sun. Without the Sun, there is no Earth.

    Even beyond being where the Earth came from, the Sun continues to make life on Earth possible. So, yes, you should acknowledge and respect the Sun, even if it isn't a part of Gaia. It's a vital part of the cosmic system that makes our lives possible, a system that includes things beyond Gaia.

    That system that Gaia is a part of gives you life. The idea of the One, Brahman, whatever you want to call it, is simply acknowledging the Whole.

    It's a bit hard to relate to the One, though, if you're wanting something specific. If you have a question about romantic love, for example, it's easier to work with the Venus aspect of the Divine.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by töbi View Post
    I think when get into the "God to a God" business it just becomes fruitless mental masturbation. If there's something "above" a God, then what's the point of Gods in your spiritual path?
    I know for me following a shamanic type pathway I see my gods / goddesses as the highest of my divinity yet above them I see not so much a god / goddess but an unknowable force. It's sort of animistic in that I am influenced by Native American practices that see that force as "Gitchi Manitou", "Wakan Tanka" or simply "Spirit". It could be preceived as divine I suppose but for me it is simply to large and encompassing of all things to call it god / goddess. So while I do not call it a god / goddess is still exists above and beyond them.

  10. #30
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    I'm panentheistic, in both the Hermetic and Pythagorean sense, so I do believe that there are beings that are above what we usually think of as "the gods". Those beings would also be gods or, in the case of The All, a sort of pantheistic "God", of course, so defining them as "above the gods" is useful only insofar as one is defining the gods as beings of the various polytheistic pantheons and such. Either way, I do believe in some entities that exist above the usual gods as all-encompassing forces.

    PS)
    Quote Originally Posted by töbi View Post
    I think when get into the "God to a God" business it just becomes fruitless mental masturbation. If there's something "above" a God, then what's the point of Gods in your spiritual path?
    It might just be because that's how that path is set up. Using my path as an example: when it first formed in the late 1930's and 1940's, Wicca and Hermeticism shared essentially the same theology. It's just that Wicca focused on the "ground level" forces, the gods of nature and fertility and magic. Because, ultimately, that's what it intrinsically is--a fertility religion. The unknowable or all-encompassing Gnostic-style force of deity was of no real concern to the religion's practice and its goals.
    Last edited by Louisvillian; May 15th, 2012 at 10:08 PM.

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